What are your predictions about the new atf pistol brace rules that will be revealed in August?

[Willoughby23]

https://www.atf.gov/file/154866/download
The point system makes it impossible to have a braced pistol that legal. Even if you do manage to make a braced pistol that doesn’t get 4 points the atf is allowed to ignore the point system and say its still illegal. They know they can't handle forty million sbr applications in such a short time, and they can’t arrest forty million people (even though they would love to). This will surely face countless legal challenges from individual citizens, guns rights organizations, and some politicians. So why even do this? Its just a headache for everyone and they can’t be dumb enough to think it will reduce gun violence.

[Soteris]

Its actually pretty simple. This is the government responding to the fact that people are trying to circumvent previous restrictions through technicalities and as such they are attempting to redefine definitions so that the old restrictions still applies as they were intended to.

That is especially true when they still retain the ability to ignore the points system and slap you in the face for trying to be cute and use loopholes to strategically avoid getting points while still achieving the same results.

Again, this is how it was always intended to be. The fact that you think it is going to be a headache for everyone and all that shit is simply due to people going against the government in the first place and making guns that they had intended to be restricted.

If as you say, there are 40 million people who needs to re-certify then there used to be 40 million people that were intentionally using legal loopholes which by itself is a justification for updating the laws so it is harder to exploit.

This is specifically their own fault. If the rulebook could simply say "Be cool" and everyone did not act like assholes then we would not need any of this convoluted legislation. Dumber and dumber firearms legislation only happens if the gun culture becomes dumber and dumber first.

[Willoughby23]

Except for the atf previously said this was legal, and even approved the same pistol braces they are now criminalizing. The only stupid party here is the atf. Its not like the braces people are using where never directly approved by the atf. They said it was fine to have a pistol brace for larger pistols then after forty million people buy them they change their mind. The atf can barely handle the amount of nfa forms it has to process already, now they are intentionally doing something that will cause them to get tens of millions of them all at once. But yea, gun owners are the dumb ones.

[Soteris]

Change their mind? Was it not 40 million people who changed their mind and forced the government to re-evaluate the situation in the first place? The government is only responding to how we interact with the laws in this case so if 40 million people do something that is technically legal but goes against the intent of the government then they have to respond.

[Willoughby23]

It isn’t technically legal, the same agency that is making it illegal made it legal in the first place. Nobody went against their original intentions which where to let people use these pistol braces. The atf is only the one that changed it’s intentions. The companies that make these braces didn’t start making and selling them until the atf approved of it.

[Soteris]

That is my point exactly. The companies did not start making and selling them until after the ATF approved. In other words, the current situation of the pistol brace market did not exist and was not accounted for when the ATF first made their judgement and as the situation changes so too does their evaluation hence the re-definition to mirror the intention they had before the pistol brace market exploded.

The pistol brace market was the thing that changed first which meant that the ATF had to redefine their rules to reflect the new reality.

[Willoughby23]

Your response makes no sense. They said it was legal (which under our constitution it obviously is) then decided its not legal. By reversing their opinion they are creating tens millions of felons and inviting tens of millions of nfa forms they know they can't process. They made a rule that is unenforceable due to political climate.

[Soteris]

No, my reply makes perfect sense. Lets use an example I am more familiar with.

Sweden used to be a fairly basic economy with a bunch of agriculture and people living dispersed (less so today). As such there is a big culture of farming and having the family help out with the day to day business which then translates into our laws.

With a tradition of having young kids help out with farming equipment such as tractors it became a problem with our driver license laws. A special law was then passed that kids as young as 15 years could apply for a tractor license with the intention that they could then go on to help their family.

With a general drivers license being 18 years and the tractor license only being 16 years (or as young as 15), it became an obvious loophole for kids wanting to drive vehicles on the road to purchase tractors. This in turn evolved into a situation where there is a big market of converting normal cars into "tractor" compliant vehicles, often with a hidden switch that could switch them back into fully functioning cars.

The intention of the tractor license was obviously to allow the culture of letting kids help with their family on the farm. This had the unintended consequence of allowing any kid to drive tractors around which lead to a legal loophole to allow underage kids to drive "normal" cars around before they were of age for a drivers license. The current situation is clearly not intended no matter how "legal" these converted cars are and the law should obviously be updated to reflect the growing issue this new market of "legal" tractor cars has caused.

Likewise the explosion of pistol braces has caused issues not intended by the original definition of the ATF and they need to update their definitions to reflect the current situation to enforce the original desired outcome.

[joeldalton]

If you've not noticed, Biden's whole MO is to make regulations he knows are illegal and unconstitutional hoping that businesses and individuals will follow them anyway.

[CrazyGirl2]

I have NO idea what any of this means… I don’t even know what most of these words mean. What even is an atf pistol brace? It sounds like something that is used to hold the thing jiffy lube uses to get precise amounts of automatic transmission fluid in the filller tube?

[Willoughby23]

😂😂😂😂😕😒😭😭 Its gonna be fucked

[CrazyGirl2]

Wait! It’s a sexual thing? What?

[Willoughby23]

No. Its a political thing. Gun rights

[CrazyGirl2]

Oh! Ok, well 19yo here, I can’t own a pistol. (Jeez when you mentioned “ATF Pistol Brace” I thought it was that thing they use to measure the amount of Automatic Transmission Fluid, and the brace was the “holder” where they hang the ATF Pistol between uses!)

[Willoughby23]

Ill explain it to you if your interested

[CrazyGirl2]

That’s very kind of you, but nah I’ve gone this far w/o knowing… I figure if & when I own a gun, then I’ll learn the rules and regulations. But thanks.

[WhatTheHeckkkk]

It’s gonna be a shitshow. Jesus….

[Willoughby23]

That much is clear, but I appreciate your response.