Why these days everyone you don't agree with is "fascist" or "rasist"?

[Cubus]

I got a feeling that the terms "rasist" and "fascist" have become way too standarised and a common practise in an argument is called your interlocutor with one of these terms, when you run out of arguements. Well, it makes me pretty mad as fascism and rasism are real problems and such practises make them sound like a joke.

[SiberFox]

Easier to insult others than come up with a rational argument.

[MikeInHawaii]

You forgot “misogynist.”

[Cubus]

My bad. That's also common

[MikeInHawaii]

I have an educated idiot cousin who called me a misogynist in 2016 when I voted for Jo Jorgensen for president in the general election, Tulsi Gabbard in the primary, and donated to both of their campaigns. He said I was cynically supporting women with no chance of winning.

[Soteris]

Yes and no. This used to be a bigger problem but it resolved itself by actually having racists and fascists come out of the woodwork so now there are legitimately fascists and racists all over the place. More specifically in USA though.

[Cubus]

Are you sure you use the term "fascism" correctly?

[Soteris]

I mostly follow the 14 characteristics when I identify fascism.

1: Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
2: Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
3: Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
4: Supremacy of the Military
5: Rampant Sexism
6: Controlled Mass Media
7: Obsession with National Security
8: Religion and Government are Intertwined
9: Corporate Power is Protected
10: Labor Power is Suppressed
11: Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
12: Obsession with Crime and Punishment
13: Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
14: Fraudulent Elections

There are also other versions of this but they essentially say the same thing but with different language. Its no surprise that Trump and the MAGA movement fits this descriptive list to a T.

[Cubus]

Some of these examples are correct, some are not. For example point nr.8 wasn't followed in Hitler's Germany,

And nope -Trump cannnot be desribed as a fascist, as he doesn't fulfill several points of this list, most notably 1,2,4,6,8 and 10.

[Soteris]

That is not really true. A major part of Nazism in Hitlers Germany was to replace class, religious and regional allegiances to achieve a pacified population. Its not really important how far they got with their plans, aside from killing all the Jews, since their stated intention and direction was very much to control people through their religious beliefs.

Also Trump literally fulfills every point.
1: Trump ran as a nationalist. "Make America great again" and all that.
2: Trump is famous for dehumanizing others such as calling Mexican immigrants rapists etc..
4: The whole of USA is obsessed with their military. Trump is no exception and he literally wanted to have Dictator style military parades as well as a bunch of other crap.
6: Fox News as well as all the attempts to use twitter and other social medias to poison peoples world view. Trump even famously started his own social media after being banned for his misuse of Twitter and that one is very tightly controlled if anything.
8: There is an infamous picture of Donald Trump holding up a bible after having pepper sprayed the people nearby. It is obvious that he has no personal faith but that stunt alone is evidence of him trying to use religion to back up his government. Also worth pointing out that many Christians have warped their view of Trump into a literal heavenly sent savior.
10: Trump used the National Labor Relations Board to roll back quite a few labor protections just as an example. He is no fan of the rights of workers.

[Cubus]

1. Ok, so in what way National Socialists were adopting religious policies into the state?
2. You mistake terms. Nationalism means "placing the right of nation above all other rights, surpressing these other rights such as rights of an individual, freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, right to associate etc" That's the dictionary definition.
3. Ok, and what that has to do with human rights?
4. US obsession with millitary is FAR from how it used to look like in Hitler's Germany, Duche's Italy, Soviet Union etc.
5. Dude, you understand that having one tv station with similar policies is NOT the same as controlling mass media? In fascist countries the ruling party has countrol over all medias, and there are no medias that have a different opinion.
8. Many of Trump's positions are against Christianity or the Bible.

[Soteris]

1: Hitler tried to create the Reich Church to unify religion under his regime but failed from pushback by the already established churches and fought with them to comply through to the end if I am not mistaken.

2: Nationalism: "identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations." Not only is most Americans nationalists, which is bad, but Trump ran as a nationalist. Make America Great Again, America First etc.. There are also more direct examples such as in his book “The America We Deserve" where he advocated for invading Iraq and taking its oil as well as similar comments about other nations which displays his complete disregard for other nations sovereignty.

3: The first step to commit atrocities is usually to dehumanizing them in a way to justify your actions against them because they do not share your human rights etc.. That allows you to for example put children in cages which I guess sounds familiar to you. Its also worth mentioning that Trump did not feel it necessary that these children be reunited with their parents so they did not keep track of them. There are also tons of other examples such as attacks on the rights of LGBTQ people, revocation of the Affordable Care Act which gave people the right to healthcare, forcing asylum seekers to wait in Mexico, forcing federal employees to work without pay during the government lockdowns, blocking people from applying for asylum, making it legal to deny birth control coverage for religious reasons etc.. I could literally talk for hours on this.

[Soteris]

4: I mean, kinda? I guess that Nazi Germany had a healthier militant society. While the flag waving and "honoring the troops" is very similar, at least they elevated their troops in social standing where as USA is outright abusive towards their troops. The way USA treats their veterans and troops is deplorable. Either way, same but different and this still applies for the 14 characteristics.

5: Hey, you never caught me saying Trump was good at his job. He TRIED to control the media and succeeded in parts but just because he failed does not make him less of a fascist. Once he was unable to control the media he started to try discredit the part he was unable to influence by calling them "fake news". Something that the Nazis also did which is of note.

8: The point of fascists integrating religion into government is not to adopt religious values but to use the authority and power of religion to control people. It is pretty much an outright attack and attempt to control religion as anything else that fascists wants to take and control.

[Cubus]

1. Goebbels in 1941 wrote "You have to wait for the war to end; then we will settle accounts with this political Catholic clergy"
2. Again - you mistake nationalism with patriotism (I do not say that Trump is a patriot, but his slogan is).
3. You know that there is no such thing as "free healthcare", right? The state cannot give you anything for free, because the state doesn;t have anything.
4. Again - this has nothing to do with human rights
5. USA doesn;t have paramilitaric organisations nor youth military groups like Hitlerjugend
6. So tell me in what way he was controlling New York Times, Washington Post, NPR, MSNBC and all other media? In authoitarian state you have 2 tv programms and all the press is cenzored.
7. "The point of fascists integrating religion into government is not to adopt religious values but to use the authority and power of religion to control people." - read point 1

[Cubus]

"for example put children in cages which I guess sounds familiar to you"

excuse me?

[Soteris]

1: So what is the problem exactly?

2: Quite frankly, I do not think Trump has any real ideologies at all. He is just out to personally enrich and benefit himself and will adopt any position that would allow him to more easily do this. This however is compatible with fascism since its more about the pursuit of power and authority than having a specific economic or social policy like other ideologies such as capitalism or socialism.

3: I believe in a human right to healthcare. Also arguing that "free healthcare" is not really "free" is just arguing semantics and provides nothing to the conversation.

4: See 3

5: USA has around 334 unorganized militias that classifies as paramilitaries. As for youth paramilitary groups there are a few as well such as various Cadet Corps and the Boy Scouts. There has been countless connections between said militias and Trump to the point where they have offered themselves as Trumps "Brown Shirts" AKA the Nazi party paramilitary group before SS became a thing.

6: Again, Trump would have loved to take control over the media but the fact remains that he is incompetent and failed. He has done countless things to try control the media and there are plenty of breakdown and analysis on the internet of personal behavior and legislation intending to control the media. I also feel remiss not to mention Trumps own social media which is specifically controlled in the way you have specified as an example of what Trump would do if he was actually able.

7: Yes, the Nazis very much intended to defeat the church and take it over to create their own national church that they controlled.

As for children in cages? Aside from the Trump administration literally asking the Pentagon to hold children captive from the border, Trump started the policy to separate children and holding them from illegal immigrants along with the whole "We lost track of the parents so we can't give the child back" nonsense.

[Cubus]

Ok, if you count Boy Scouts as a paramilitary youth, then I believe there's no reason to discuss more.

[Soteris]

... I mean, its just a fact. Although I am talking about a different boy scouts than what you probably are thinking of.

upload.wikimedia.org/.../...out_manual_c._1911.jpg

[Agagagagaga]

Nothing like seeing a Swede and a Pole discuss racism in America 🤣

[Soteris]

@Agagagagaga Well, its not like we can leave it to the Americans, they are completely clueless on the subject of America.

[ODC2112]

As the brilliant writer Leonardo Sciascia wrote:

"The most beautiful example of a fascist one can come across today (and we recommend the most accurate description and cataloging of it to experts) is that of the self-styled anti-fascist solely dedicated to calling a fascist to someone who is not a fascist".

[jshm2]

You can usually ignore people who throw "racist" or "fascist" out as a sole argument attempt.

[Agape93]

I suggest not talking down on people's lack of arguments when you literally get stuck in a cycle of circular arguments

[Sargentcaptain]

Losers love projecting their shit ideologies onto other people.

[Anonymous]

Easy way to get sympathy from normies. I mean, most people dislike racists and facists, they just don't knot that loony sjws use those terms to mean anyone they disagree with.

[Cubus]

Problem will appear when you encounter a real rasist/fascist, that would not try to explain himslef/herself for being racist/fascist. Such normi would have a surprised Pikachu face.

[joeldalton]

And ironically the leftists are more likely to be both those things that they yell and scream at conservatives.

[Sandeeppingping]

Agreed 100% my guy

[fireforeffect]

Because Democrats ARE fascists and Racists!!