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Well, you represent a mere fraction of the voting age population so it is not like you will be missed.
That aside, the odds are that you are not especially well informed on the issues. Here, by the way, I intend no offense. It is simply the fact that much of the public is not especially well informed on the issues and history on which they are being asked to vote.
So, if you choose not to vote, that is all to the good. As one wag once put it, "please stay at home and keep your ignorance to yourself."
Do not then, though, take offense when you get outcomes and policies you do not like. To be sure, voting does not assure that you will get the outcomes you want. It merely assures that you will have some say, prevailing or not, in those outcomes. That is all that can be reasonably asked.
Finally, in this connection, recall that in a democracy, properly understood, the people do not decide. Rather, they decide which elites will decide. (Please note, "elites" is plural.)
This is as i should be, To repeat, you have a public of which, as one survey showed, only 20% could name the Secretary of State. Suffice to say, while the general attitudes of such a public are necessary to convey legitimacy to government, they can hardly be expected to make meaningful judgments on the specific content of policy - especially in such a complex entity as the modern welfare state.
(A welfare state against which the public howls ferociously and yet has the following profile: 1 in 6 who works, works for government. 1 in 7 is a Social Security recipient. 1/3 of all families, this year, will receive some form of government transfer payment. Try touching that and watch how the public reacts.)
Bottom line, don't vote. You will absent yourself from the public discussion, but you will not be missed. Democracy means you get a voice. It does NOT mean that you get your every wish fulfilled.
First of all, I know a lot about the history of my country and how our 5th republic works and what is at stake here. And I understand many of the basic ideas at stake.
And even though I'm not American, I can talk quite reasonably about American politics.
So I don't really know what you're trying to prove by calling me ignorant.
Or did I say that democracy means getting everything we want?
First, my apologies. I did not look to see who wrote the question and did not realize it was you. Obviously, I hold you in much higher esteem and frankly you not voting would be a loss to your electorate. You are an informed voter.
(By the way, I hate this new format on this site. I used to be able to stay in touch with you and know when you were posting questions. (I always loved your questions.) Now, not so much.)
Second of all, I was addressing what I see as the systemic problem in Western democracies at the moment. A public soused in social media and self-absorbed but blissfully unaware of its' own ignorance.
So while I make exception for you - and some others - in general this is the broad cultural and social problem. Having said all that, I don't think that you should not participate in the electoral affairs of your country. It is not only your right to do so, but it is your obligation as a citizen.
Anyhow, sincerest apologies. You know I think the world and all of you.
No problem 🙂 Fortunately, the app on the phone hasn't been updated, so everything is as it was before on the app. Oh, it's a shame, you'll be responding less to my questions now 🥲
Of course, I'm going to vote; it's just that I'm not really happy with the current state of French politics.
The question is obviously not about having a perfect solution.
But, for example, the two extremes of the political spectrum dominate. However, their programs are not based on reality, like bringing the retirement age back to 60, etc., while we have an aging population. The left's program would cost between 400 and 500 billion euros, which is more than the Portuguese economy; it's simply not realistic.
Ms. Le Pen's program would cost 100 billion euros, of which she can only explain how to cover 20 billion, and for the remaining 80 billion euros, we simply don't know how they will be found. Knowing that they also promise retirement at 60, the minimum wage at 1600 euros, etc. The worst part is that they want to ally with Russia, abandon the German alliance, and leave NATO's integrated command. In other words, it's a program to isolate France and cause its downfall. But all you have to do is say things that please the crowd, without them thinking about the consequences, and you're a shoo-in to be president of the republic. Dramatic.
There's the traditional right, but the president of the right, Mr. Ciotti, has decided to ally with the RN for the legislative elections.
So, there's nothing left for the legislative elections but to vote for Macron, and for the presidential election, a candidate who will come close to Macron. I suspect Mr. Edouard Philippe wants to run; he was our former Prime Minister, so I will vote for him. It's not perfect, but it's the least bad option in my humble opinion.
I hope you and your family are well, give them my regards 🙂
Thanks and best to you and yours' too.
As far as your electoral choices, believe me, you have my sympathy. (Look at the choices I am facing!!! Yuck!)
However, as Burke said, "Circumstances give in reality to every political principle its distinguishing color and discriminating effect. The circumstances are what render every civil and political scheme beneficial or noxious to mankind... The rights of men in governments are their advantages; and these are often in balances between differences of good; in compromises sometimes between good and evil, and sometimes, between evil and evil. Political reason is a computing principle in adding, subtracting, multiplying, and dividing, morally and not metaphysically or mathematically, true moral denominations."
So you are living that out. For what it is worth. from my distant perspective, Macron has been, on the whole, an effective and benign force in French and European politics. So in that, we are agreed.
Anyhow, hopefully we can stay in touch but this new format - at least on my end - mitigates against that. Know this, though, as far as I am concerned, you are a real asset to this site and it is ALWAYS a pleasure to chat with you.
In my country it is against the law not to vote. But I break the law and abstain. I am not against not voting.
I think it is a perfectly valid choice not to, as it works towards forcing politicians to appeal to voters and motivate them to vote. If the politicians are all little shits and not meriting a vote, a substantial did-not-vote will make them think.
In my case the majors are bipartisan in significant areas in a way that is against my interests and I am just bloody well not going to be forced to endorse something that is against my interests.
Would love a My Take from you on this. Does Far Right in fact mean Not Woke?
Voting in the UK is like changing your hat after you've shit your trousers. I don't think Macrons been great but I don't think a swing to the far right le penn would work out well. Perhaps the answer isn't to vote for who you want but against who you don't want and vote tactically.
The UK is predicted to swing left, you're going far right. I predict war.
@purplepoppy do YOU vote in your elections Purple? 🟣
Only the main ones
@purplepoppy that's really impressive of you lady because voting is not compulsory in UK, aka Wales, true? Go Rishi Go ;) and welcome Angela to replace Keir (what an oddball to my Left wing brain 🧠 and an oddball name)
@purplepoppy did you have a happy king's birthday aka trooping of the colour? I watched it on the computer live in between football. Just saw them on the balcony the whole royals :) 👑 👀 gives poppy a purple emoji 🟣
Have a nice weekend lady 😋😊😈
"The UK is predicted to swing left, you're going far right. I predict war."
Narratives are unfortunately framed, and then operated within. Any contradictory information is filtered out. If you watch the BBC news, the coverage will be pivoted against the two 'main parties' ie Labour and the Tories. It's kind of hard to advance if you get relatively scant media coverage. However, I understand Reform have overtaken the Conservatives. It will be interesting to see how BBC will of course still keep Reform out of the main spotlight.
My family will be voting in UK on 4 July. We do not have any faith in politics or politicians, but we will be voting for the least untrustworthy candidate. We must not waste our votes even if we don't like what's on offer. Too many people fail to vote and later complain about the party in power.
Why is the UK election the day America celebrates independence from Britain?
@WhiteBoyChill Just coincidence.
@Jessica405 Rishi for the unlikely win go rishi go victory ✌🏻🙌🏻
Opinion
23Opinion
Interesting question and one I've been pondering over myself.
As our general election is looming.
I've never really voted for. And it's kind of hard to vote AND to be snooty about the political system. I like to be contemptuous of the voting public and aloof.
Having said that, Reform UK actually do reflect my views to a reasonable degree.
Migration is insane in my country. The left, including the Conversatives, are fucking destroying what is left of what used to be a great Isle.
Go Reform ❤️🙏
Honestly speaking, I think abstention from voting means you’re giving others the right to decide for you. And whoever wins, you’ll be happy with that. Basically, other people will decide your opinion, since your abstention will count as “laissez faire”.
Morally, are you doing the right things as a citizen?
I come from Italy, our political class makes the French one seem all composed by statesmen, and I always had difficulties during elections (especially the last one). But I always brought myself to electoral cabin and voted… since it’s my duty as a citizen of this country, it’s my duty also for myself because I can’t let others decide my personal opinion. I express it, even if the party I vote won’t go in parliament or even the party I vote gets only 1 vote (mine), it’s my moral duty as a person with a thinking head and a human dignity.
People who don't vote get the government they deserve and have no rights to complain about it afterwards.
Even if you go and spoil your ballot, the fact you voted counts. Most people don't realise that if the majority of ballots are spoiled papers it forces a repeat of the election, in most places historically with the original candidates barred from running.
It's not something most republics or democracies advertised, as it's an invitation to the electorate to tell them to fuck off.
by not voting, you're taking legitimacy out of the process. legitimacy is what politicians desparately need, cause their political power is inseparably tied to legitimacy. that#s why every politician tells you to vote. cause if people stop voting, their power will go away.
As far as I’m concerned, Fidel Castro never had elections
@WhiteBoyChill fidel castro's power didn't come from legitimacy.
Exactly. Someone doesn’t need to have legitimacy to be in power
@WhiteBoyChill dude. in a monarchy, a dictatorship or in a military government you don't. in a democracy you fucking do. got it?
m People fought and died for the right of non landowning people and for the right of universal suffrage.
By not voting, you are dismissing what they fought for.
If you don’t vote, then you cannot complain later that such and such party where elected.
So no one died for the right of the common person in France?
How did the normal working class get the right to vote?
So your average working MAN could not vote prior to then?
I don’t know, that’s why I was asking
Fair enough, I never realised people could vote under the monarchy.
Back to the other point, you cannot bitch and moan if you don’t vote and a crap party gets elected.
People not voting is often how extremist parties end up slipping through, as those supporting them do vote.
Fair enough, maybe this is an example of why it took French women the right to vote.
Personally not voting when there is a potential of a controversial party or someone you don’t like getting elected, is just crazy.
Then posting a question declaring it more so.
It was de Gaulle who gave women the right to vote in France, and you would be surprised to learn that in reality it was absolutely not a priority even for women to get this vote, is even in this case tell me the number of women who died at that time for demanding the right to vote? As you can see, no one here died for that right.
The French will vote by a majority, so if one of the extremes passes, it's because they've won the approval of the majority of French people, so my vote will be completely useless.
The UK left the EU due to Brexit, not because of those voting to leave but those who did not bother to vote. It was very close and if those non voters had voted, we would potentially have still been in the EU. Not voting can often be just the same as voting for the extreme side.
True, however there has been enough reviewing and talking that it’s fairly accepted those who could not be arsed to vote, shoulder a lot of the blame.
Those wanting to leave, those with passion voted.
Anyhow, your choice, your vote, even voting tactfully is better than no vote.
George Carlin explains not voting well...
https://www.youtube.com/embed/qxsQ7jJJcEA
If you don't vote you have no reason to complain about things you think are wrong!
Then, you can't afford the ability to bitch and complain about the end result.
Of course it's not your vote that'll change things because you're not voting! Therefore, if you don't like the end result, you and everyone else that didn't vote have no right to bitch if the winner doesn't do what you want them to. It's partly how we got stuck with Joe Biden!!
Oh, well!! You didn't try to vote them put so, you're stuck with having to live with their decisions upon your life. If you didn't care enough to try to vote them out, you can't possibly care enough to want to bitch about what they do!
But YOU DON'T KNOW THAT!! 2 years ago, we had mid-term elections and everyone expected "a red wave" so, a lot of people that WOULD'VE voted that way didn't bother because, like you, they figured it was a shoe-in! Because of that, it WASN'T a shoe-in and the "red wave" became a red trickle!!
A forfeiture of your vote is a vote to be ruled. If you are fine with being ruled then by all means don't vote. But I'd urge you to try to get a realistic idea of what being ruled means, first.
Not voting IS voting. It's voting for apathy and non participation when other people all over the world don't even have that privilege. And it IS a privilege.
I don’t participate in politics. I also teach my own kids to not get involve…so far it’s serving us well by focusing on our life goals.
I don't go voting either. I don't like choosing sides or participating in such shitstorms.
It's like being forced to make enemies and humans bring out the worst from themselves over paid liars.
Pass.
u Président Manny Mac called for this new election unnecessarily, in my opinion. That will result in a lower voter turnout. 🤷♂️
Doesn’t the right wing benefit from low turnout? It made no sense what he did
It will benefit them most certainly. I am guessing, Macron sees himself as ultimately the only viable candidate to sell to the people and therefore goes for broke.
i don't vote in general. our votes don't actually count. it's just something to make us think we are heard or changing something. it doesn't work like that, actually.
u I've never voted myself... these two parties do not really represent me
This is not another election. This could be the last election that would ever matter unless slavery, death and destruction is what you wish for.
It's your choice but you should vote for who you support. I don't want to vote for any of these idiots, either
In my country, voting at certain levels is rigged.
Voting gives you the illusion that you have a say in the matter... You don't have a say... you're voting for the lessor of two evils.
I suggest you download and begin reading Project 2025, the GOP manifesto for turning the USA into a dystopian world. If that doesn't make you want to vote against Trump, nothing ever will.
I'd you were going to vote for Biden the I guess you have the right attitude
I always vote every year. It is my right to complain because I voted. If you don’t vote, don't complain.
I thin not voting is the same thing as checking "none of the above" if that was an option. It is a valid choice.
You should vote all it takes is just one vote
Just makes you look a pathetic apathetic retard
If you have a choice you should vote. If there's only one candidate you shouldn't.
London and France did this. Because the opposition party is what it is. The Opposition Party.
I always vote, that gives you the right to complain
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