How long will we have war after war after war?

[msc545]

Maybe forever.

"The US Empire Isn't A Government That Runs Nonstop Wars, It's A Nonstop War That Runs A Government"

Updates

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[llorando]

As long as money controls politics and Republicans and Democrats keep fighting each other as planned. Can't even count the number of times I've smeared by Democrats (Republicans too) as a Russian for opposing the Ukraine war and pointing out how we are directly responsible. It's just a never cycle of Democrat and Republican voters fighting each other while Republican and Democratic politicians gather together thinking up new wars to wage/support as they collect their payday from defense contractors. Maybe one day us voters will stop being petty with each other and will actually come together and create major change such as getting money out of politics which would be a big step towards ending the war machines profits off the wars they lobby for.

[Ladsin2]

How are we responsible?

[llorando]

@Ladsin2 Pushing NATO East and pushing to make Ukraine a NATO member which has always been a red flag for Russia. War could have ended as Ukraine and Russia agreed to a peace deal mediated by Turkey and Israel, but we sent Boris Johnson over to sabotage the deal and talked Ukraine into continuing fighting, because war is more profitable than peace.

[Ladsin2]

Nato never said it wouldn't expand eastward, and Russia has been annexing territory from the Ukranians for over a decade now, "unprovoked". Any responses?

[llorando]

@Ladsin2 It was provoked, in 2014, we carried out a CIA backed coup d'etat which resulted in a civil war and the death of thousands of e Russian speaking Ukrainians. Actually we did agree not to expand NATO eastward in exchange for unifying Berlin. Some of the annexed territories, are majorily ethnic Russians and voted to join Russia. NATO expaned eastward cause it's profitable to defense contractors.

[Ladsin2]

Show the quote. It's nowhere in any treaty we signed. Anti-western people keep claiming it, but there's no evidence for any such claim.

[llorando]

@Ladsin2 James Baker “not one inch eastward”

[Ladsin2]

Baker says he never said that, and no treaty was ever signed to that effect. Any comment?
www.politifact.com/.../

[msc545]

@Ladsin2 We tolerate this crap and in some cases support it.

[llorando]

@Ladsin2 No formal agreement was signed, but there were a multitude of oral assurances by American, French, German and British leaders that NATO wouldn't move east. When it comes to war, take what news outlets says with a grain of salt, as they get kick backs from defense contractors for promoting war. It's just sad we live in a never ending cycle of war for profits. All the money being spent on the failed Ukraine war, could have ended our homeless problem.

[Ladsin2]

Or the politicians that are quoted as saying that? Who do we trust then, the soviets?
Throwing money at the homeless doesn't decrease homelessness. It exacerbates it. Ie California.

[llorando]

@Ladsin2 We trust neither side who is guilty of spreading lies and propaganda. Part of the reason some people are homeless is housing prices are too high, and the money wasted on foreign wars, could be used to build affordable housing. Drug addiction is another reason some people are homeless, and the money spent on foreign wars could be spent on drug treatment.

[llorando]

Thanks for MH.

[Ladsin2]

Affordable housing leads to housing shortages... Nigerians have the Right to housing in their constitution. Doesn't work too well.

[CaptainSmartass]

Probably forever. That's the way it seems to be going.

Simples...

[GoodGuyBreakingBad]

I don't see wars to stop to after year 2032/2040 ?

[DrPepper12]

Great accurate quote. As long as we continue in the role of the "world's policeman" it will never end. Military spending is a large reason why we don't have developed social services like other countries. Now those military contracts are such a vital part of the economy that it's hard to disassociate that revenue going to private corporations and many many many jobs in every congressional district. It seems like none of our leaders have ever read or are even remotely familiar with the fall of empire. So far we're a TEXTBOOK case and doing a FANTASTIC job of it!!

[Ladsin2]

Right. There was no war before the US. What an astute observation. All that wisdom that comes with age is indeed fascinating.

[DrPepper12]

@Ladsin2 WTF are you even talking about?

[Ladsin2]

Question, "how long will we have war after war." Your response, "As long as we continue in the role of the "world's policeman" it will never end." My response, "Right. There was no war before the US. What an astute observation. All that wisdom that comes with age is indeed fascinating."
Make sense? No. Ok, your implication is that the cause of the world's wars is American intervention. My point is that humanity has been at war for at least several millions of years. Long before the Americas were founded or US existed. Does that help clarify?

[DrPepper12]

@Ladsin2 you're joking right? I never said Being the world's policeman is a CAUSE of wars. The act of intervention makes it interminable. Read it as many times as you need

[Ladsin2]

"As long as we continue" the statement insinuates that if we discontinue our (latter mentioned) actions something else will happen. If that's not what you meant you can just say that. It just leads me to not understand the purpose of your statement. If wars are interminable ir-regardless of whether or not the US is, "The World's Policeman" then why would it be worth stating?

[lightbulb27]

Til humans become secure or we die.


Trump was better and better chance to fix russia mess quickly. Gaza not fixable by anyone. Yemen and africa amd myanmar… who knows. Vote for the left, dont choak when gets worse and draft starts… in Europe first.

[Ladsin2]

The world was certainly a lot more stable from a war standpoint during his term. Russia didn't take any land, relative peace in the middle east, etc. Why do you think that was the case?

[lightbulb27]

@Ladsin2 seems that way, Ukraine/Russia was smoldering, Middle east always a mess... but under Obama was the Arab Spring, and Yemen was a fireball not to mention others. But Syria and Iraq seemed to get cleaned up better... for lack of better words.
hTrump was aggressive early on dealing with ISIS... remember them? They will be back, but was calmed down.
Russia felt they had some pull in USA... I think... under Trump, a voice. When that ended, and all they get is the stiff arms bout their concerns, Mr. P saw no other option and best option was to go military.
but I don't know for certain... opinions, there's some very different views out here... that I don't claim to understand.
And so you ask... if we get 4 more years of "same"... will it just go on smoldering, or be escalated / mistakes even worse.
That my concern... there was 10,000 chinese in Belarus training recently. I think it gets worse and could suck in a lot of others... for what? it's pointless waste.
Israel/Gaza... good luck anyone solving that... maybe worse under trump, not sure... toss up...

[Ladsin2]

So even though there were no new wars under Trump there would've been had he remained? Is there any way to disprove that notion?

[lightbulb27]

Hard to say right butni dont think ukraine go as it did because of the support for russian interests trump provided. Doing that would prevent a fight st the cost … who knows? Others dont know… i see nothing that change israel scenario.

[Ladsin2]

Why then do you think Russia invaded Ukraine under Obama?

[Sevenpointfive]

what's sick is that the u. s. government doesn't want to use its own resources. it wants to leech off of other countries. so it will have these wars that no one really knows about. it's not imperialism but it should be called that. ukraine and israel are just colonies in strategic places. so is south africa

[msc545]

Yes exactly. The US economy is war-based, and the defense contractors are very hungry for more and more money. Last year the government gave them 1 TRILLION dollars. This year it will be even more.

[Sevenpointfive]

they say she wants to spend $1.7, but that's 3.5x lower (i think) than projected. so $2.7 trillion

[msc545]

That is going to go to US defense contractors to pay for weapons.

[NathanDavis]

for as long as we can profit substantially, it is worth for American to sponsor that much conflict

[Ladsin2]

No America, no wars! Strong and big thoughts.

[Ladsin2]

Forever? The entire history of humanity has been constant war for all peoples for all of time.

[msc545]

No, it has not.

[Ladsin2]

When not?

[msc545]

Tell me the last time Switzerland was at war.

[Ladsin2]

The swiss were involved in Afghanistan, so 08? It also imposed sanctions on Russia during Ukraine war which some could consider to be an act of war.

[msc545]

Involved in Afghanistan in what way?

[Ladsin2]

"In its first military deployment since 1815, Switzerland deployed 31 soldiers to Afghanistan in 2003, and two Swiss officers had worked with German troops. Swiss forces were withdrawn in February 2008."

[msc545]

Interesting - where did you read that?

[Ladsin2]

en.wikipedia.org/.../List_of_wars_involving_Switzerland

[msc545]

Thanks for posting the link to that Wikipedia article. It's very interesting and it taught me a few things I did not know. However, in regards to Afghanistan, it just simply lists some countries including the US and mentions Afghanistan without really telling us what happened or what the Swiss did. Do you have some further information regarding?

[Ladsin2]

"In its first military deployment since 1815, Switzerland deployed 31 soldiers to Afghanistan in 2003, and two Swiss officers had worked with German troops. Swiss forces were withdrawn in February 2008." en.wikipedia.org/.../Participants_in_Operation_Enduring_Freedom

[msc545]

Right. I wonder what those Swiss soldiers actually did?

[msc545]

Here is what Chat GPT had to say in response to the question "What did the Swiss soldiers do in Afghanistan:

Swiss soldiers were not directly involved in combat operations in Afghanistan, but they did contribute to international efforts in a more supportive and humanitarian role. Switzerland's involvement in Afghanistan was primarily through the Swiss Armed Forces' participation in the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) and later the Resolute Support Mission.

[msc545]

Their role was essentially peaceful and I wouldn't call this participating in a war...

What do you think about this?

[Ladsin2]

You don't think support personnel are involved in a war?

[msc545]

I think they are. What the Swiss guys did doesn't seem to be that.

[Ladsin2]

How kind of you to denigrate the service records of our Swiss allies... Just messing with you bud. Yes the Swiss have had a period of relative piece with a few possible exceptions for the past century. They have a highly defensible terrain and haven't had much territorial ambition. They've been benefited in recent history by being surrounded by EU member states who they've been able to reach an uneasy detente by signing up for pretty much all of the EU policies, with the allowance of saying they're an independent state.

[msc545]

good points. Also, many Swiss men have military rifles and know how to use them.

[Ladsin2]

Yep, they're required to join military service if I understand properly. They have high ethnic homogeneity, a strong social safety net, and high rates of gun ownership. That said due to their deal with their EU they're mandated to take in Muslim hordes and I'm not sure they'll be able to survive an attack from within.

[msc545]

I guess we will see what happens. There are very resilient people.

[Ladsin2]

They are, it's harder to defend against an enemy within than without though.

[msc545]

Good points. It is much more difficult.

[WindAtMyBack]

Things are actually fairly peaceful now compared to most of my life. Remember, the world is very very big, and the vast majority is NOT at war.

[Anonymous]

How long are you going to keep electing presidents with desires to run the world or get their pockets lined by contractors.

[Ladsin2]

No America, no wars! Strong and big thoughts.

[Opinion Owner]

@Ladsin2 No America and you will have even more wars around the world, America just by definition won't be involved.

Instead the next most powerful players Europe, Russia, and China will be playing the less consequential players against each-other for dominance.

War has always been part of the condition of life the result of the fact that we are always competing for resources and the security of our own access.

As this fact is not likely to change in a finite universe neither is war.

[Ladsin2]

"How long are you going to keep electing presidents with desires to run the world or get their pockets lined by contractors." If war is the natural state of man with or without US what's the point of this statement?

[Opinion Owner]

@Ladsin2 I understood @drpepper12 Question to be about American involvement in endless wars. Not the existent of war itself.

[Daniela1982]

Until the very end when the biggest battle of all time is fought and everyone is destroyed but God's people. The Battle of Armageddon!

[Fireguy17]

there is no money to be made in peace.

[msc545]

Very true. At least not as much...

[ProbablyClueless]

As long as we keep voting establishment people into power, war is all we are going to get.

[llorando]

Sadly, often times, establishment candidates are forced on us, one great example is the DNC in 2016 forcing Hillary us.

[ProbablyClueless]

@llorando The candidates are forced on us, but we also have a lot of opportunities to say "no." Most people simply don't pay enough attention to speak up.

Look at what happened with that "Bureau Against Misinformation" thing that Biden tried; they announced it and people (those who were actually paying attention) freaked TF out, so they cancelled the idea. Even though Biden himself was kind of forced on us as well.

[Ladsin2]

No America, no wars! Strong and big thoughts.

[BoopBoopBeep]

Haha I love that quote.

[msc545]

👍👍

[Anonymous]

As long as there are still countries with oil in need of freedom.😆

[Kelly6]

@msc545 forever

[msc545]

At least as long as we have Capitalism which may not be forever but it feels that way. Hateful, shitty system.

[exitseven]

When Trump is back in office he will get us out of all these wars. Why do you think that there is a price on his head?

[llorando]

Highly doubt it, during his first term, he dropped more bombs in Syria than Obama plus he stocked his cabinet with war mongering swamp creatures, and is eying swamp creatures for his second term.

[msc545]

Bullshit

[msc545]

That was meant for exitseven

[exitseven]

@llorando He subscribes to the Peace Through Strength model. You bomb somebody into the stone age and the rest of the world knows you don't screw around. It seemed to work.

[llorando]

We had no business bombing Syria under Obama and Trump, but we did anyways so we could take control of their oil. Yeah bombing women and children isn't peace through strength, it only makes countries hate us even more. If Trump really subscribes to peace, he would have never given speaker Johnson the thumbs up to pass more funding for the failed Ukraine proxy war. At the end of the day Trump no different than other presidents doing what their warmongering cabinet tells them to do. And yes, Trump put warmongering swamp creatures in his cabinet. People are fools if they think a second term is going to be different and Trump is finally going to drain the swamp, heck Trump is already eying swamp creatures for his second term.

[exitseven]

@llorando theworld was a much different place 4 years ago it was Biden that has pumped billions into Ukraine to fund a war we have no stake in.

[llorando]

And Republicans including speaker Johnson are just as guilty as Biden for funding the Ukraine proxy war. It's no secret both Democrats and Republicans do the bidding of defense contractors.

[msc545]

Bullshit. Stop shilling for Trump every chance you get.

[llorando]

What makes it worse, is they are shilling for a Clinton plant and not a actual Republican.

[exitseven]

@llorando Trump has reimagined the Republican Party. It is the party of the working class. Democrsts are the party of the non working class.

[msc545]

Trump is going to lose the election Exit.

[exitseven]

That's not what the politics book says. These are the guys that make a living from betting on political events. The smart money is on President Trump.

[DrPepper12]

@exitseven. AGAIN we guaranteed Ukraine independence when they voluntarily gave up their only bargaining chip - their Soviet nukes - when user broke up. What's our word worth? Taiwan, Israel and the world is finding out.

[msc545]

@exitseven That is what the polls say...

[exitseven]

@llorando yes, I agree. Johnson gave up the store. He turned out to be just another RINO

[llorando]

So is Trump, he gave Johnson to go ahead to pass the Ukraine funding.

[exitseven]

@llorando I never heard that but I never heard Trump criticize him about it either.