512 opinions shared on Religion & Spirituality topic.
Bad would be causing harm to others. Simple. You don't need a holy book to believe in treating others the way you would like to be treated. It's common sense.
What's more, most Christians don't even follow the example of Jesus. They hurt others all the time and rationalize for their actions by finding justifications in the Old Testament (Talmud). Judgementalism, slavery, misogyny, theft/usury, authoritarianism, brutality/torture, religious wars, ...
There's nothing inherently moral about simply believing in a sky god. Especially when, according to Christians' own beliefs, tortures his own children for eternity. What parent would ever sentence their own children to that?
1. How can you account for that on a atheistic world view that right and wrong is "common sense"
2. Just because "most" Christians do not follow the followings of christ that does not exclude all of thr other ones that do truly follow christ.. that is like using most black people are thieves as a argument
3. First off God created law he is the law giver and decides what is Good or bad.. and yes there is according your world view you have no definite way to say that god is morally "bad" he is just.. does not get more complicated as that and him being a just judge he gives what is deserving.. it goes both ways he is just in his rewards and just in his punishment
Who said that God created "law"? Where's the proof that there IS a god? What about other gods throughout history? Just because someone wrote a book doesn't make it real.
Hebrews 10:16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;”
God did
2. So things create themselves in your worldview? That does not make sense
3. Other Gods through out history? It sound to me that you did little to no studying on religions wholeheartedly if you wanted to find the truth you would see what makes the God of thr bible different from all the other "gods"
Exactly all this talk about good and bad being objective makes no sense in an atheist world view.. if that was the case we would have no law no one would agree to it or abide by it but they do.. because they know in their hearts it is the truth
401 opinions shared on Religion & Spirituality topic.
why would I define good and bad? There are those who choose to contribute to the advancement of civilization in the only way possible (an objective understanding of reality), those who choose not to, and those who choose to hinder the advancement of civilization out of spite. I suppose I would consider the last case "bad."
But in general I guess you could just say "intentionally harming others is bad." Religions usually teach this exact thing but then come up with a lot of exceptions to the rule. I think the exceptions are also bad.
I'm not atheist, but I am agnostic, so close enough for ya?
I don't believe there is any such thing as "good" and "evil." I believe in cooperation and love and selfishness and hate. If you want to be what you'd call a "good" person, then be respectful to others, and try to banish hate from your heart. If you don't want to be what you'd call an "evil" person, then be selfish and hate everyone and everything in life and be bitter.
Also, I don't believe in human religion because humans are stupid, selfish. and flawed even in the technological age of 2022. How much dumber, selfish, and flawed do you think they were over a thousand years ago when Christianity and Islam began? Humans very, VERY likely have no idea what higher power exists out there, if any. It's sheer human arrogance, to me. From a very dumb species. However, you can believe in whatever you want; just don't use that to hurt others, I stand by.
1.8K opinions shared on Religion & Spirituality topic.
I am not an athiest, but since i also do not follow an existing religion i think this one still applies to me since i had to define it for myself.
So for me it is about intent + outcome. Good intent + good outcome = good Good intent + bad outcome = neutral Bad intent + good outcome = neutral Bad intent + bad outcome = bad
And then the good or bad is judged by the impact i had on others. Are other people better or worse off because of what i did? And was it a neccesary evil? If they are worse off and its avoidable it would be very bad and i try to avoid that as much as possible. If it lacks an impact its neutral. If the impact on others is positive its a good act.
2.6K opinions shared on Religion & Spirituality topic.
That's the central problem of philosophy since the enlightenment. Basically the general agreement is just to treat others with empathy -- treat others as you would have them treat you. This is just a general principle, there are still situations where it's not clear what duty we have to others.
Still this is much better than just quoting some platitude from an old book. In general atheists behave more ethically than believers. Relatively few atheists go to prison. An atheist will never use religion to justify mistreating others.
“Atheists would never use religion to justify mistreating others.”
The hell they wouldn’t. Most atheists speak about people of faith in incredibly derogatory terms. They ridicule them, call them idiots or say they are brainwashed bigots, and then have the goddamn gall to act as if they are the bigger people who have some nonexistent moral high ground.
People are shit. All people. Especially the atheists. They are no more ethical than anyone else.
@Agagagagaga "Speak about people of faith in incredibly derogatory terms..." And what do religious people do when someone asks a government institution to obey the constitution and remain neutral? They become violent. It's quite common for judges to grant anonymity to people filing suit against school districts that unconstitutionally proselytize to students to protect them from retaliatory violence. Look at what happened to Jessica Ahlquist when she asked her high school to follow the law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Ahlquist
In the US it's Christians who can't tolerate expressions of skepticism. An advertisement simply advertising the existence of an atheist social organization is likely to be vandalized. When have atheists ever vandalized churches or advertisements for churches, or physically attacked believers?
common basic sense is so... prevalent and it makes all the sense in this world, that even animals have it... through their senses and their experiences, they have been able to sense, understand, and "judge" the life of them, and others around them...
if has worked for them for centuries and millennia even, millions of years, if you will... and we're not so much different from that, if it were not for the basic common sense we had way before religion was even a thing, we would have not had reason and therefore religion in the first place
it is mostly through our perception that we understand the world first... which is again, through common sense, rationality follows later and sometimes way later
so of course natures holds up for itself, whether you believe in a superior power, or not
I don't need an invisible friend in space to tell me that things like grand theft, arson, rape, and murder are not good things to do. Humans learn good and bad from their culture, in which religion only plays a small role, especially nowadays. Children are constantly reminded to keep their hands and feet to themselves, don't pick on others, tell the truth, don't cheat on a test, and etc.
3.4K opinions shared on Religion & Spirituality topic.
good and bad are subjective kategories for actions or objects that depend on context and the attribution of good and bad can vary over time (usually a long time like several generations) and across different cultures or even between individuals of a given culture. there's no absolute or objective good and bad.
Exactly and i am asking if "there are not absolutes"
Is that statement of there being no absolutes absolute.. if your answer is "there is no absolutes" again you are just running in circles that is contradictory to itself
i didn't say "there are no absolutes". i said "good and evil are not absolutes". of course i'm gonna contradict myself if you're twisting what i said XD i don't know whether there are absolutes in general or not. maybe.
and also by the way: this is not "the atheisitic view". there's no such thing in regards to your question atheism concerns the question of gods existence and nothing else. this is just "my" view.
well obviously i'd be sad if my mom was murdered. so subjectively to me this would be bad. that's not objective tho. also again, since your question implies you don't understand what atheism means. this is "an atheists opinion". not "the atheist opinion". it is my individual opinion and i also happen to be an atheist. there's no connection between me being an atheist and holding this opinion.
no. ok. see, as a christian you have a huge body of doctrines. the books and verses of bible. it has a vast ammount of annecdotes and moral judgements on very many different questions of life in it right? so it makes a lot more statements than just "god exists" right?
atheism has no such thing. atheism is just this one thing: "we do not believe there is a god" that's it. everything else is not part of atheism but is part of individual opinion. that means that one atheist may or may not agree with another atheists view of good and bad. because as i said this isn't objective. i don't know if there are atheists that consider their individual judgement on what's good or bad as "truth". i personally do not.
we need laws because good and bad is not objective and we do need to find a subjective agreement with each other to find what most people deem good or bad as to find compromises that we can all accept to live with each other within one culture and in order to write down those agreements, we write laws.
And if that were true why are all moral laws in the states relatively the same how did they come to the basis that robbery and murdering was "bad" without a moral law giver
we need laws so that we can remember what "rules" we agreed on as to have something to refer to when we're trying to determine if something was right or wrong, because... as i said... this is not objecitve, so not so easy to figure out. that's why laws change and get added over time. because we're constantly negotiating the rules under which we wanna live inside a society.
laws are the direct result of good and bad being subjective. because again. as i said. if good and bad were objective, there wouldn't be a discussion about laws and every law in every country of the world would be exactly the same. because you can not disagree on things that are objective.
some people do not agree with the law and decide to act in violation of the law. why would anyone abide by a law they don't agree with? ever heard of prisons?
the reason that there are similarities in laws between different nation is that we're all humans and the human experience is somewhat similar. everywhere but there are differences. so there being "some overlap" is not an argument for objecitve morals. and the reason that there are differences is proof that morals are subjective.
Yeah i have heard of prisons.. i wonder why everyone is afraid of them
Yes why would us as a society abide by laws if everyone determined their own definition of good and bad
Why would such a multitude of people agree to these laws.. because we know right from wrong
In an atheistic world view someone could say child rape is bad.. some can say child rape is ok
Yet why does literally everyone think raping a child is bad.. even pedophiles know what they do is wrong wether the law told them or not.. if law exist their was a moral law giver that created us. But you reject that fact for no good reason
first of all good and bad is not binary. it's a spectrum. someone raping a child is clearly worse than someone littering in the park right? so let's say there's a spectrum of 1-10. then if you ask a million people, for every question like "how bad do you think littering in the park is?", there's gonna be a belle curve distribution between 1 and 10. in some questions like child rape, there's gonna be a pretty clear answer. others there's gonna be a broader spectrum. so the law tries to depict the maximum agreement. so the tip of the belle curve. not everyone agrees with every law. and if you violate the law, you go to prison. there's many people in prison. in some countries if you ahve done something really bad, there's death sentence. in others there is not. so clearly good and bad is subjective. otherwise the punishment for the same thing would be the same globally.
so explain to me please. if good and bad were objective. why is it that not every country has the exact same laws and different punishments for the same crimes?
The bible tells us we are like this because man in inherently evil
2. Name state where you can walk into someones house steal from them or murder or rape someones wife.. moral laws are all generally the same.. driving on a different side of the road is not a moral law
That is a topic for bible study between christians so there is no reason for me to talk about that especially over a topic that has been clarified millions of times
ohhh so when the bible says some fucked up shit that you disagree with, then that's "a topic for bible study between christians" because you don't want to admit in front of me that you disagree with the bible, cause that would put your entire christianity in question. i'm sorry i did that to you ;) i know hot to get christians.
anyway just answer the simple question: if good or bad was objective, then how comes not all the laws are the same globally?
you didn't answer my question. i'll repeat my question. why are some laws different? i'm not asking why some laws are the same. i'm asking why some laws are different.
it doesn't need an example. i'll give you one anyway. why do some states have death sentence laws and others do not? clearly some states believe killing is good in certain circumstances (if certain crimes were commited) and other states do not think so.
also you said that killing is considered everywhere. so imagine i beat someone up really bad. they have to go to hospital. 4 days later they die. am i guilty of killing or is that deemed ok by your standard?
434 opinions shared on Religion & Spirituality topic.
Think of the worst kind of raping torture possible, where the victim is really crying and wanting to die. Really concentrate on it and focus on that feeling.
If you need religion to tell you that rape and torture is wrong, then congratulations, you're a psychopath.
We do not need to read the bible to find out good or bad because God wrote it in the hearts every man
Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
That quote from Jeremiah means as little to me as a quote from Harry Potter. Both are unsubstantiated nonsense but at least one of those books is honest about it.
Until your holy book can pass through the scientific method then right back at ya. If you're not scientifically illiterate then you will understand the importance of the scientific method.
Well to put it simply, I don’t want to do onto others what I wouldn’t accept them doing if I was in their shoes. For instance, I don’t judge people on things that they don’t really have a choice (race, nationality, biological sex, gender, sexual orientation, etc.) for if I was in their shoe, I’d expect basic human decency.
2.3K opinions shared on Religion & Spirituality topic.
Good and bad are subjective terms. As humans, we are intelligent enough to be empathetic. Empathy and cooperative expectations are the basis of all morals and ethics. We evolved this behavior as we needed the support of our tribes to survive and they ours.
Don't hurt people when you don't need to. Be considerate of others as long as they do you same Don't steal stuff Avoid conflict when it's reasonable Be kind Defend the innocent Manage your anger Etc
Logic and reason comes from the mind that created us
Logic is not natural in a worldview of random outcomes in a cess pull of cells.. things have logic because it was orchestrated to be that way by a conscious being
Wrong on both counts. Logic is a construct, created in an attempt to make sense of the world we find ourselves in. Just like math. It's perfectly natural that increasingly intelligent life would create an increasingly complex pattern of discernment to examine and affect the world around us.
If anything, the consistency of methods of reasoning among animals is an argument AGAINST Creationism; evolution is a tinkerer. Divine letip would be more... bespoke.
So in retrospect what you are saying is that we do not need a creator for logic to be a thing
Which does not make sense because the laws of logic are immaterial and universal.. therefore the fact that you believe in logic goes against your world view
This is like someone saying they do not believe they need air to breath because they do not believe in air and can breath just fine.. same with God just because you do not believe in a creator does not exclude one
Go to china hold an apple and drop it tell me if the something would happen where you currently are it is never changing logic was discovered not created by us... Same with math it was discovered not created.. all immaterial things were discovered not created
And evidence out the brain... We are literally living in it
Think, man- is a map of Pennsylvania evidence of Pennsylvania? How about a map of Middle Earth? That's all that logic and math are. The things they try to explain are real, but if logic was a discovered inherent aspect of reality, then why would math violate it in so many ways? If logic IS reality, instead of an attempt to describe it., then why was Galileo arrested?
You're the one claiming logic exists outside observation, here. We didn't create reality, we created (well, expanded) a system to explain reality. If logic and math ARE reality, then how can negative numbers have square roots?
I agree with guy13 as man/god how did we create the universe.. we do have free will to determine how we want to live our life but that does not render us Gods.. that just makes us a creation that is "like God" but "is not" God
@Guy13 due to the simple reproductive process between man and woman. @justsomemale President Kim Il-Sung determined fairly well in the Book I of his memoirs - With the Century - how the world is what we shape it to be.
So, you’ve latch upon some slick sounding advertisement but can not explain your position so that another can wrap their head around your position. Definitely, “Not Good”. I’m expecting you to be able to explain yourself as God and man given your Claim.
For me causing the most amount of good for the most people while causing the least amount of pain and suffering for the most amount of people is what i consider good.
Bad is causing harm to others who have little to no power knowingly.
Wether you believe in something or not does not make it false.. someone may believe i am just an AI over this ohone but that does not change the fact that i am real
And exactly we as a society know these things are bad because of the harm that it causes and we all know that harm hurts and it bad thanks to God
disagree its thanks to ourselves we all agree pain murder rape, most harm is bad and causes misery. therefore we as a society decided these things should be illegal.
again its not about objectivity dude. thats not what im arguing about or concerned with. we as people as a society decide what is right or not. us. human beings collectively decide this.
It is still in the same category and yes it is about objectivity you made it that way when yoh said we come together and discuss as a society what is bad or good
for the most part. yes i know society get things wrong sometimes too like you know slavery and shit... but just remember a society justified a lot of that with... the bible.
If Morality was subjective or relative then we: -would not be able to define right and wrong or know it when we see it. -words good and bad would not be in our vocabulary. —would be no rule of law, judgment, or consequences for actions that we freely choose whether they be “not good” or “good”. —We would not have a conscious that informs us of wrong doing through guilt and shame. —We woukd not be able to acknowledge that “ the good I want to do; I do not. But the “not good” that I swore I would never do, I do. And, in not doing the good and in doing the bad.. on both occasions I feel pleasure. And from these wrongdoings my conscious brings forth feelings of guilt, regret, and shame. And, I keep not doing the good and doing wrong doings.
REALLY, are you that inept⁉️ Surely you are astute enough to read Law. Not good is defined in the law and that’s the point. Read the Law or 10 Commandments which largely is what Western law is built upon. If that’s to much difficulty then try a dictionary. —We could not have the Courtroom if what is good and not good was not delineated.
@Guy13 I don’t like talking to people who just constantly talk down to people. I’m legit asking, I don’t know any definition of Good or Bad, so I wanted to see what your thoughts were so I could Understand how you think better
I am the Lord your God. You shall not have strange gods before me. You shall not make to thyself any graven thing; nor the likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth. You shall not adore them nor serve them.
What US law prohibits this commandment?
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
This one seems to be unanimously unfollowed, I here people say Jesus Christ and Oh my God all the time
Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.
About 35% of the American work force works on the Sabbath
Honor your father and your mother.
There’s no law for this either
You shall not kill.
This one actually has laws for it
You shall not commit adultery.
Cheating on your spouse isn’t against the law
You shall not steal.
You shall not steal, unless you’re a huge corporation or a rich person
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
This one has some laws for it I guess
You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
No law against wanting someone
You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.
No law against wanting something
So all in all, 3/10 of the commandments in the Bible have laws that correlate to them, but like every nation and religion has those so🤷♂️
Dude, that’s the point. You stated it. In the beginning God and all nations have them…See, there is a God. I don’t understand you at all. You stated the obvious and self-answered. What do you want from me…. You’re simply nonsensical and obviously have zero experience in the field of Law. I’m done here. Best!
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