What's your best explanation for not believing in God as an atheist or agnostic?

[chris_987]

[richardcory]

For me, there are two questions: Does God exist, and should I worship / obey God.

For the first, I don't see any evidence of God. If he is omnipotent and wanted use to know he existed, he could write his name across the heavens in blue-giant stars, or visit each of us personally to talk about it. If he is not omnipotent, he can still use what power He has to let us know that He is real.

Maybe He is too busy to talk to me, but he has the chance. I have gone to His houses of worship and prayed to see if he would respond. If He talks, I will listen. But He doesn't. But maybe I went to the wrong places - there are so many religions, so many sects within those religions. I can't visit them all in a lifetime.

But if He is omnipotent, and good, why is the universe filled with horrors? Why has so much evil been done in His name?

Does the Bible describe God? Did He really commit the atrocities described in the Old Testament? If so, by what right does he claim my, or anyone's worship? Is it simply the threat of eternal torture if I refuse?

[chris_987]

Well God doesn't want us to know him in vain. He'd rather us know him in love. Because let's say that you know God exists, but you decide to kill and murder people you're punishment is going to be worse than somebody that doesn't know. God exist because you're actively disobeying God.

But the world is governed by information and information only comes from a mind. You've been your own thoughts are governed by information when you dream you dream of a physical world made up by math that you're unaware of, but that came all from your mind. But I can't measure your mind or take it out and hold it in my hand. But you'd know that your mind exists.

If you want God to know you, you have to seek him out. I only know God exists because I believe he came down in human form and died so that our sins could be paid. So I realize that he took the first steps to pay for my sins, so he loved me first. Now I can love him. God has no obligation to reveal himself for people that don't even take the time out to appreciate what he did for them.

The universe and the world is filled with horrors because it isn't ruled by God. What mankind sinned they gave up the power to the devil and he's the one that controls everything.

And you would only worship God if you realize who he is. Are people worship other human beings? Not because they're humans, but because of their accomplishments, whether it's celebrities or kings right? So if you realize somebody is the king of kings and the Lord of lords. And you don't want to worship them. But you look up to celebrities and kings and queens and that just makes you a fool.

[richardcory]

Where would I look for God? How do I know what he has done for me and the world? There is good and evil in the world - what parts are God's work? The bible is a terrible guide because the Old Testament paints God as a monster. I'd never worship someone who murdered the innocent, including children, to punish their leader - a man they didn't even vote for. Did god actually do that?

But if God didn't do those terrible things, what did he do. Jesus died for our sins - but isn't that just another child sacrifice to God, to try to protect us from the dreaded Father?

Some things have gone very well in my life - is that God's doing? But I've seen far better people than me suffer.

He knows where to find me. He knows I will listen

[Adam1978]

Because a god doesn't make sense. It doesn't explain anything. If god would be needed to make the world who made god? If things just exist why can't just the world exist without god. Why would a omnipotent power need worshipers? It would do whatever it want. Worshipping it would be pointless. So and and so forth any questions would end up in either atheist or agnostic viewpoint.

[chris_987]

You can have an on-caused cause. Why do you dream and create people in your mind? It's the same way that we exist, but don't believe we're created by God but The people that you dream about that you create in your mind that are doing their own thing. Don't believe that you created them either.

[Adam1978]

I create my dreams and their actions, nothing in my dreams are aware or independent. Besides even a dreamer must exist. So if you think we live in a dream, you are doing the same thing, pushing the answer further away without actually giving it an answer.

[Apple1996]

I have yet to see enough proof to believe in god. Sometimes I question it so I don't completely not believe but it's just difficult to. This is the reason why I'm agnostic

[chris_987]

What do you think is the origin of information?

[OfDeath]

I don't believe in gods because no reliable evidence has ever been put forward for their existence.

[chris_987]

Other than the fact that information only comes from a mind. What's the origin of information then?

[OfDeath]

That isn't a factual statement but lets say it was, how would that be a proof of god?

[chris_987]

Answer a question with another question is not how conclusions are drawn.

[OfDeath]

Well, you made a false statement. I was only trying to get to the bottom of why you thought what you said was true and how you connected that to the existence of god.

Deflection won't draw any conclusions either. Answer the question or the conversation stagnates.

[chris_987]

The question of what is the origin of information was the first question that was asked and you avoided it

[OfDeath]

Because the answer to that should be obvious. It comes to us from our environment. It doesn't come from the brain. It can go from one brain to another but raw information is relayed to the brain from our environment via the sensory organs.

[chris_987]

The origin of information is our environment?

[OfDeath]

Yes.

[chris_987]

If that the case then you should worship the grass and the trees

[OfDeath]

Why? What would I get out of doing that? Grass and trees don't have the anthropomorphic characteristics to justify worship.

So answer my question, why do you think all information originates in the brain?

[chris_987]

You basically don't like a thankful life then. You didn't have to be born. And since you believe that the universe has all the information to create you. Giving thanks to it would be the only logical form of worship for you.

[OfDeath]

Again, the universe doesn't have the anthropomorphic characteristics to justify worship. Some naturalistic superstitions do assume these characteristics of nature but they are no different to the worship of other people or imaginary beings which through fantasy have been designated supernatural ability in order for people to get a false sense of security or for them to make excuses to permit themselves to be content with mystery or to simply deny reality. And in the worst cases, to beguile and exploit the gullibility and emotions of others. I hold no such unfounded beliefs.

And you have yet to answer even one of my questions.

[chris_987]

The easier answer would have been just to say you don't live a thankful life. Whether you die today or tomorrow, it doesn't matter. You're just here to exist and experienced life. Not to be thankful for it.

And that's fine, but you got to realize that's how you feel

[OfDeath]

The ad hominem approach doesn't bode well for you. Religion doesn't have a monopoly on being thankful.

[chris_987]

Ad hominem attacks never once came out of my mouth

[OfDeath]

Any argument made such as "you don't live a thankful life" is ad hominem. End of.

[chris_987]

Say your not thankful for life isn't an attacked, it's an observation based on what you said

[OfDeath]

No, that is an attack gleaning from your warped sense of reality.

[chris_987]

If you say so

[Anonymous]

most people don't believe in GOD

cause they were lied to as kids

[Dargil]

They don't know G0d.