Do you believe the universe is proof God exist?

[Anonymous]

The Bible says something like God created the universe in a 6 days

[strateguy632]

Not directly but if you believed "science " that universe and galaxies have "an age" that admits they "started" therefore, logic obligated a "starter".

[jshm2]

Why do you think God required proof, exactly? This could be the billionth universe he has created. Doesn't make it proof.

[Stevepro68]

I do not believe you can prove the existence of a supernatural being period. The all powerful nature of a supernatural being means you have to believe without proof. So no the universe is not proof of supernatural powers.

[strateguy632]

Very ignorant, even the most extreme doubter : des cartes did prove god is real. As certain as 3 and 5 are odd numbers.

[Stevepro68]

@strateguy632 des cartes arguments hold equal validity for the proof of invisible undetectable flying spaghetti monster being a deity. So no it is not the same as mathematical proofs. Since it doesn't make 2 and 8 prime numbers if you change the title. Plus I think seeking proof is... in itself, trying to disprove God. either you believe or you don't. Believers are not swayed by logic and evidence neither are disbelievers. Which leads you to pursing confirmation or value signalling to your own cohort. It s a reasonable thought experiment to ask of a universe is proof of a deity. It is a unanswerable question. Since any all powerful deity could infact build a universe and make it unknowable on purpose. That is tautology not a proof.

[ChicoFromThe305]

Yes the proof is all around us, not everyone can see it tho

[AndrésC64]

I know, right? Why do people not believe in my invisible dragon?

[ChicoFromThe305]

Cause your invisible dragon didn't die for humanity

[ChicoFromThe305]

There's many historical literatures from several regions that speak of the existence of Jesus, how many books does your dragon have? Better yet how many witnesses does your dragon have cause God has many, also, how many miracles has your dragon done? Because the writings I speak of that originate thousands of years ago speak from perspectives of people that noted what they witnessed and they witness several miracles, where is the tomb where your dragons body was sealed in and your dragon resurrected back to life?

[AndrésC64]

Prove my invisible dragon didn't die for humanity. I will wait. But I'm not going to hold my breath, because we both know that you can't. You're just mouthing what other people have told you about what they read in some old book written by unknown authors. 🤦🏼‍♂️

[ChicoFromThe305]

It's more authors than your dragon has and that's my point, your dragon didn't die for humanity cause it never existed, it seems it went right past your head, there's documentation of my God even if you believe that documentation isn't valid, it's still existing historical documentation, compare 1 with you being the only one to seeing the works of your dragon compared to hundreds most likely thousands of witnesses to see my gods works, best of luck getting follows for your dragon, considering that in order for that to happen people have to see something from your dragon, there's millions of believers for a reason, meanwhile you are the only one that worships your dragon.

[AndrésC64]

I'm willing for the sake of argument to grant that there was a guy named Jesus. Anything other than that, and you need a hell of a lot more than "a guy said so".

[ChicoFromThe305]

There is, My prayers get answered, just cause you can't wrap your mind around it doesn't mean it doesn't exist

[AndrésC64]

Really? Your prayers get answered? Give me an example. And then tell me why your prayers get answered but the billions of prayers of people dying in horrible situations get ignored.

[ChicoFromThe305]

Well I've asked God to open my eyes about people and they show their true colors, I've have others but I know your head is full of ignorance, you are just wasting my time, and people dying don't pray that's full of crap, or are you admitting that in your death bed you will turn to god out of fear? I can't tell you why things happen but that doesn't disproof the existence of a god, it only shows you like to blame God for everything

[AndrésC64]

No! It's proof that my invisible dragon is real. 🐉

[SmokinAces2000]

Yeah and it’s also proof that we live in a giant monkeys brain.

[BarryLiverstone]

I don’t ever think there needs to be proof that God exists. He does and by Faith we can believe.

[AndrésC64]

And by faith I can believe that I'm the richest and best looking man in the world.

[BarryLiverstone]

If that’s what you try to believe. Thankfully there is a God. He’s not imaginary

[AndrésC64]

Prove it.

[BarryLiverstone]

https://www.bible.com/bible/1/JHN.20.28-29.KJV

[AndrésC64]

Guess what? Your viable is not proof. Your Bible is the claim. I didn't ask for your claim I know what it is. I asked for proof. Can you provide any?

[AndrésC64]

* Bible

[BarryLiverstone]

I cannot provide proof. However I can’t believe you are being honest.

[AndrésC64]

So the adult within an invisible friend doesn't think that I'm being honest when I tell him that I don't believe in his invisible friend? Really? Because I hard find it hard to believe that any sane adult could still believe in such a silly fairy tale. Especially when that silly fairy tale comes with absolutely zero evidence.

[BarryLiverstone]

Yes. I was raised in the church and seen the power of prayer all my life. I am an adult and I believe in God.

I also believe you are an adult who isn’t being honest because you :

- are not the richest man in the world
- are not the best looking man in the world
- don’t own an invisible dragon.

I am choosing to be honest in my answer and no I can’t offer proof of God because no one can. However I am choosing to be honest and not lie on the internet because it’s more helpful than making sarcastic jokes.

[BarryLiverstone]

And yes I believe that you honestly don’t think that God is real. I never did question that. The richest man in the world however wouldn’t waste time on gag.

[AndrésC64]

Prove it

[BarryLiverstone]

Do you have more than one gag account?

[AndrésC64]

So you just admitted that you simply believe what you were told as a child, despite having no good reason to believe it. Good work! 🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

[BarryLiverstone]

Thank you. Not only was I told as a child but I studied and confirmed I believe as a teenager. And am part of a family that believes in God. I see it as a good thing, and that believing in God helps us in life. You have free will and can choose to not believe.

[AndrésC64]

No, I don't have free will, and neither do you if you're invisible friend is real. If you are invisible friend is real then everything we do is his fault, good and bad.

[BarryLiverstone]

Actually that’s not what I believe. I have free will and can choose to follow God or not. We all have the ability to make our own decisions. But God is happy when we do choose to praise Him.

Do you have any children?

[AndrésC64]

Well you can believe whatever you want. But the fact of the matter is that if your invisible friend is real, not even he has free will, let alone us.

Your God is incapable of doing anything other than what he knows he is going to do. He can't even change his mind. Because if he changed his mind then what he knew would be wrong, and he can't be wrong because he's omniscient. And you and I have no free will for the same reason. We can't do anything other than what he knows we are going to do, and knew we were going to do before he created us exactly as he wanted. He could have created us differently, but he chose to create us this way knowing exactly what we would do. That makes everything his fault. Just like if I do something intentionally (it wasn't an accident), it was of my own free will (I wasn't coerced), and I knew exactly what the consequences of my action would be, I should be held responsible, right?

[AndrésC64]

No, I don't have children. But I can tell you with 100% certainty, that there is nothing that they could ever do that would justify torture. But that's exactly what your invisible friend does. What would it take for you to torture your children if you have any?

[BarryLiverstone]

I don’t have children. But God did change His mind :

stream.org/.../

[BarryLiverstone]

If I had children and my child became a rapist.. I would hope he or she is arrested and suffers judgement.

[BarryLiverstone]

Without free will, then all humans are slaves. In fact free will is discussed several times in the Bible and also slavery is discussed. Jesus came to free humanity of sin which is our nature and because of Him we have free will. God wants us to choose Him and He loves us. That’s what I believe.

[AndrésC64]

And would that judgment include torture? Eternal torture?

[AndrésC64]

As I already pointed out, we do not have free will because your God set up everything that has ever happened and ever will happen. That makes him responsible for everything that ever has happened and ever will happen. How hard is that for you to understand?

And here we go again with that ridiculous Jesus story. " God had to sacrifice himself to himself to save us for being the way that he created us, doing the things he knew we would do, and breaking the rules that he himself set. Rather than just for giving us, he demands some sort of stupid pointless blood sacrifice. Do you demand a sacrifice before you forgive someone? If you do, then you aren't forgiving, you are selling.

[BarryLiverstone]

If my child chooses to rape, and chooses to never follow God. Probably torture is what they are choosing

[BarryLiverstone]

Sir, let’s agree to disagree. You don’t believe in free will and I do. Thanks

[Agape93]

Lol nope

[jahaims]

No lol

[Blueeyes81]

No..

[Mulcair]

I will pray for you

[Blueeyes81]

@Mulcair don't bother

[Mulcair]

Nay, i'll both'r because i careth about thy hath lost soul and i wanteth not thee to suff'r liketh hell with fireth and brimstone

[Mulcair]

Oh yeah, Hallelujah