Do women have power and rights because men allow it? If men decided to take away women’s rights and power, could women do anything about it? (Page 2)
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I’m not sure what you mean by power but there is some truth to saying that women have rights because men allowed it. Can’t just take it way though.
Lol gotta love them ghost downvotes.
Personally, I've seen what women can do and are capable of. Men like to think they are superior because of physical strength and a different line of thinking. However I have researched this subject in college and there have been native American tribes where it was female do mo inant and men were used for hunting. Building and that sort of thing. But women ran everything else.
It's a question of individual ability not so much as any one sex "allowes" women to have rights.
you effing idiot, pick up a history book.
Modern western women only have rights/equality nowadays because of the suffrage/feminist movement which succeeded because men capitulated to women's stipulations, hence men allowed women their rights/power and men relinquished their unilateral socio-political and cultural supremacy
It happens all the time in every rape for example. It's such a portly framed question there isn't anywhere I can think to begin aside from saying that it comes off as very chauvinist and sexist. Like what kind of misogynistic distopia are you fantasizing abiut here?
Men gave women political rights because women can think, and working manual labor in the industrial age was too difficult for most women. If we want to take women's rights away we'd have to erase the history of women's rights and take full care of our women.
Honestly, yeah, I believe men allow women to have rights. They're sweethearts like that. And no, I don't believe women could do anything about it if these rights were taken away. It's a man's world. Always has been, always will be.
1. No. 2. Men can't take women rights and power away because women are the ones who build a society. The patriarchy is literally built by women for women. That's why they can make more money then their ex's and he still has to pay alimony. Women used to not vote because then didn't want to think about it. Etc. Men will do anything for pussy, which is why women are the ones who have the power.
Men just happen to set up the system when physical strength was the main reason. Things are changing now so they would never be able to take women's rights away now
Yes it did just *happen* that strength was the most important factor back in the day, but that's not something that men set up, that was what nature set up. Women also played their part as well. Your ability to distinguish many more shades of red was helpful when selecting which berries were appropriate to eat and avoiding poisounous ones.
And yes, if men collectively decided to take women's rights away, your ability to stop us would be an annoyance at best. Even with guns, I'll take an 8 man squad over an 8 woman squad any day. When it comes to conflict, it's engrained in our DNA.
But of course that only happens if men collectively agree to stop giving you rights. There's really no reason why that would ever happen, so you're free to continue enjoying the benefits of living under "The patriarchy." You're welcome, go follow your dreams and have a happy and fulfilled life.
@ThatPersonOverThere An annoyance? Last i checked women are achieving education at a much higher rate than men now. I don't think your patriarchy is going to exist much longer. You sound pretty hurt about that.
And what do you think a gender studies degree is going to accomplish in a conflict?
And yes, you're graduating at higher rates because men pushed you into it and set up the system in your favor. We literally had to, because an unlevel playing field is the only way you can succeed. Hell look at how many women's only scholarships and women's only grants there are. Who do you think is giving those to you?
What do you think exactly happened in the last generation to cause that shift? Do you actually believe that women just magically became smarter? Of course not, the men in power changed the game so you could compete. One would think you would be grateful yet women only complain more.
I really hope that women do continue to complain. Each ungrateful cunt brings us closer to collectively realizing as men what a mistake it was to give you so much, and then maybe...*maybe* we can reverse this before our country gets destroyed.
@ThatPersonOverThere Why do you feel this way about women? You're really adamant about these feelings, so what is the source, really? A lot of men couldn't care less about them vs. women. Why do you? Is it because you're single and feel like women are not interested in you as a partner? Is your ego so fragile? What are women doing to destroy this country? Because *some* men are doing just fine on their own on that.
@FirstWestbrook
You’ve just been presented with a good set of arguments and alluding to @ThatPersonOverThere’s status as possibly being single and not be attractive to women, is something a lot of individuals resort to when they do not have something intelligent to say. They start questioning the intentions of the person giving the sound arguments, as being from hate or bitterness, in this case, hate and bitterness for women. Do you have anything intelligent to say to the arguments presented to you, or are you going to say that because this man is single is the sole reason why he is arguing this way?
That was just one single hypothetical question of several asked. You ignored the others. Clearly you were triggered by that. He can say no, that's not the reason. That's fine. I want him to support his answers.
Do YOU have any intelligent answers? Because you clearly didn't answer anything I asked.
I’m the one who asked the question... I even said that I do not know fully what this topic entails in my above post so that’s why I want people to give their opinion on it. I’ve heard some arguments from various sources on this issue, but never really gone into it in depth. I’ve heard what @ThatPersonOverThere’s arguments from other sources, so I was familiar with them when I saw it. The only issue I have is that YOU, stated that perhaps it’s because this man is single and unattractive to women that he is arguing this way. This is after you’ve been presented with information that you could not respond to adequately. Again, do you have anything worthwhile to say about the information he has presented?
Just be aware what your original post was.
You said that men *Set up* a system where strength was the relevant factor. This is false. That was nature's system.
The current system where strength is not the relevant factor, is in fact the artificial and unnatural one that man *Set up*.
Men set that up for you. We changed the rules so that you could thrive despite not being as physically capable. Yet as much as men have done to give women a leg up, zero thanks. No appreciation.
We set up a system to mitigate your natural disadvantages, and rather than being grateful that we loved you enough to do so, somehow you've come to the conclusion that we did so in order to oppress you. That a system where women actually have a fighting chance where one didn't exist before... was somehow set up to favor men.
That's why I get upset. Because with all that men have sacrificed for women, you all then sit there and have the nerve to act like we're oppressing you. Go live a happy life. You're welcome.
It's alright man. Anytime somebody makes a person attack rather than sticking to the argument, it's general best policy to ignore it.
This is a heated issue for certain. Like I said, the current system is the one men set up to Give women the ability to succeed. This didn't naturally exist. Men altered the rules and tilted the playing field. I don't mind that women are able to succeed, but it would be nice to hear them give thanks instead of complaining every once in a while...
@ThatPersonOverThere @PoliceLivesMatter Forgive me if I dont automatically believe men are benevolent benefactors. I'm so thankful you allow up to survive. But this is really some chicken and egg type argument. One doesn't exist without the other.
You want talk about need for scholarships and grants? Well when history has encouraged men to be better, it's a natural outcome. Minorities get scholarships too. Are they naturally less able? Or is it that they haven't had the same advantages?
Comments like "Even with guns, I'll take an 8 man squad over an 8 woman squad any day" are so generalist. There are plenty of men who wouldn't compete at the level some women can.
And comments like "Each ungrateful cunt" implies we dont even really deserve rights. You aren't calling the weakest of men that. Why single out women as a whole?
And for all our "natural disadvantages", why even let us live? If we're just so inferior to men, that is
of course trump is slowly taking away women's rights piece by piece until there's nothing left
according to last years news reports
it's true
@Skullcap16 Which of their *Rights* have been taken away?
I actually don't follow politics much, so I really am asking.
I will say in advance that being able to avoid the consequences of your actions is not a *Right* and shouldn't be treated like such. People are allowed to choose their actions, but not the consequences of those actions.
@ThatPersonOverThere I'm not saying women should be able to. Why do you ignore my other questions?
That was clearly marked as a reply to Skullcap correct?
I've made my position clear. The world in which women aren't able to succeed is the *natural* one. You're able to succeed now because of the *artificial* system which men set up for you.
Yes, you are inferior to men as a whole. We give you your rights.
Men aren't oppressing you, we're lifting you up. A thank you isn't necessary, but it would be nice.
Now go enjoy your life where you're able to go to school on our dime, and then get a grant to start a business in our dime, and pursue whatever path you feel makes you happiest.
If you desire clarification, let me know. I do feel I've been fairly clear.
LOL in what world was that a "sound argument" more so than a resentful rant about the opposite sex? @ThatPersonOverThere "Because with all that men have sacrificed for women, you all then sit there and have the nerve to act like we're oppressing you." wow you must really have your own head stuck up your ass to equate women embracing their human rights - something that ALL human beings are entitled to - as something that men had SACRIFICE for women? On par with that retarded logic, would you say the same shit regarding white people and minorities? and how they should just stop complaining and be grateful for all that white people have sacrificed for them like giving back their BASIC FUCKING RIGHTS that they deserved in the first place?
jesus fuckin christ
@ThatPersonOverThere i can send you a link to 2017's news report regarding the news report i just mentioned if you want
@Volvagia Right? Theyre ignoring a lot of what I ask to just spout rhetoric. I know I'm young and not the smartest, but I am kind of embarrassed for them that they can't answer me.
@ThatPersonOverThere your position is clear. You just have no facts to back it up. What exactly are you doing, as a man, that "lifts us up"?
@ThatPersonOverThere www.huffingtonpost.ca/.../in-one-year-trump-dismantled-reproductive-rights-around-the-world_us_5a623b94e4b074ce7a080152
What *aren't* men doing?
We have set up laws to force employers to hire women and pay the same waves, even though women cost employers more.
We have given you the right to vote
We keep sports segregated by gender so that you can carve up your own little slice of success without having to directly compete against us.
We give you women's only scholarships where even a woman with a pathetic 2.0 is able to graduate with less debt than a man who earned his 4.0.
We give you women's only grants so that you can start a business easier.
We spend more per homeless woman than per homeless man.
We've outlawed insurance companies charging women more, despite the fact that even outside of pregnancy related issues, you cost far more to insure.
We even give you the legal option to absolve yourself of all responsibility when faced with a child you don't want. Something we don't give men.
Those things didn't happen *Naturally* we gave them to you. What more do you HONESTLY fucking need?
@Skullcap16 Yes please. Thank you.
@ThatPersonOverThere
Im not a wage gap supporter. But not all women take maternity leave or those generalizations. So great that people have to be "forced" to hire women though. What else should we do? Sit at home and die?
Gave us the right to vote? So our thoughts don't matter. Right. Because we're useless.
Segregated sports. Physical differences, already acknowledged. Sports dont matter in the grand scheme of things, so whatever.
Grants and scholarships, see history of women being forced into being homemakers. "Because it's nature".
Spending more on homeless women... I won't fight you on that. Men have a bigger need there.
Insurance companies aren't a friend to anyone, so glad you support them.
Right. All those single mothers have so much freedom. Where are the fathers again?
You are very angry about a lot of things, some of which have zero impact on you. Where is your outrage for other issues that do? Still no comment about minorities. Selective outrage says a lot.
@ThatPersonOverThere @ThatPersonOverThere
you didn't "GIVE" anything lol what nonsense
women cost employers more? Wanna elaborate? equal pay is a right and a woman being paid less than a man for the same work simply cuz she's a woman is unjustified.
stfu, you haven't "given" shit, universal suffrage falls under basic human rights
all the rest of that shit you mentioned are female privileges in mainly developed countries and I don't support either gender having special privileges over the other so I really don't fucking know why you feel the need to personalize your language as if you're spoiling me rotten over here with all these special privileges I didn't ask for nor involve myself in? lmao
My argument here is simple, women are humans, men are humans and are both entitled to the same human rights and opportunities. Other than that, pointing out what privileges women have over men is besides the point.
I didn't mention race at all. You asked a question, and I continue to choose to ignore it because THIS discussion is on gender, and as such race is irrelevant to this conversation. If you wish to dm me and have a separate conversation on race I have no issue with that.
Yes, we have reached a point where we can afford for your thoughts matter which is why we Gave you the right to vote.
Yes, women in history had fewer rights and had to stay home. You have rights now because we GAVE them to you. I don't see how you don't realize you're proving my point. Women didn't win some war, men decided to *give* you rights, thus you now have them.
And I didn't mention support/destain for insurance companies either way. I'm stating that as a matter of LAW we don't allow them to charge women more, even though women cost them more.
Serious question. What more do we, as men, need to GIVE women before you'll finally be happy? What is it that you need, but don't have? What do you desire?
@Volvagia
Yes, we agree that women deserve basic rights, which is why we gave them to you...
Can we both agree that women used to NOT have the right to vote, and today they do? (Talking about U. S. here obviously) What exactly is it that changed? The only thing that changed was that men decided to give you that right. Moving on.
*Why women cost employers more than men*
We are a sexually dimorpous species. The female of of species is the only one able to become pregnant and give birth.
During the later stages of pregnancy, and especially immediately following child birth women don't want to work.
From the employer's perspective, the job still needs to get done. This is either done by hiring additional staff (Which costs more, and they're not as efficient since they're new) or by forcing the other employees to work overtime (Which costs more, and again those employees aren't usually as efficient)
And of course that's excluding any maternity leave (Additional cost) the employer pays. ll
@ThatPersonOverThere www.huffingtonpost.ca/.../in-one-year-trump-dismantled-reproductive-rights-around-the-world_us_5a623b94e4b074ce7a080152
@ThatPersonOverThere this according to huffington post
i don't really if it's actually real or just fake news but i'll leave it up to you to decide
@ThatPersonOverThere @ThatPersonOverThere I don't see how you're so fucking clueless
do you even know what human rights are? You can't understand the simple fact that these rights ensure that every fucking human being - regardless of sex, age, race, social class, etc. - is entitled to them. They are INHERENT - you know what that means right?
Women not having the right to vote was something that was TAKEN by men and then it was rightfully RETURNED to them once those men decided to grow a brain an realize HEY women are people!!! WOw
I brought up race only to highlight the stupidity behind your statement of men sacrificing anything by RETURNING those rights that women - as human beings - have deserved in the first place. Similarly to rights that were unjustifiably taken away from blacks, Asians, gay people, etc. LOL and one doesn't need to win a fucking war to stand up to those dehumanizing them. the fact that you think you did women a favour by "giving" them their rights is retarded
@Skullcap16 Alright finished.
I think it's important to have a quick preface on "Rights."
As a US citizen, I have the right to bear arms. This does not mean, that I get to force other people to pay for it. If I want a rifle, I can spent my own money to obtain one.
The government NOT paying for my rifle =/= me not having the *Right* to own a rifle.
No back to the article in question. At no point (As far As that specific article) is Truno taking away anybody's reproductive rights. What he is doing is defunding the groups doing it.
In other words, women still have the RIGHT to their reproductive freedoms, but they're not *Entitled* to have other people pay for it.
If I want a gun, I can go buy one. I don't get to force others to pay for my rights.
If these women want an abortion, they can go pay for one. They don't get to force others to pay for their rights.
They have the freedom and legal right to make that decision, but they are the ones asked to pay for it. Cheers.
@Volvagia and women played a huge role during the world wars i respect that women fought in the wars as well as helped a lot but i don't have anything against women it wasn't men only that fought during the wars and i appreciate what women during wars did. women did play a big part throughout history and no one should deny it
@Volvagia It wasn't taken, because you didn't have it in the first place. The US government's Initial state was one where women didn't have the legal right to vote.
Deserving rights =/= having them.
You may have *deserved* the right to vote, but as a matter of historic fact, you didn't *have* them. You have them now, not because you're any more deserving than before, but because men GAVE them to you. They weren't *returned* to you because women didn't have the right to vote in the US in the first place. They weren't *taken* because they didn't exist to take. There is no *Right to vote* in the natural universe. It is an artificial social construct, created by men, and given to women. Women didn't die on the battlefield to create democracy, men did. Men died to create a system of goverment where *voting* was even a thing.
I know we're limited to 1000 character replies, but I would like to hear your response to my reasoning on why women cost employers more than men do. Cheers.
@ThatPersonOverThere character limits are bloody annoying. I dont think PLM and the other users on this thread appreciate the constant notifications so ya I'll pm you my responses later cuz I've already wasted too much time on here today
I think what is paradoxical about discussions like this is that both men and women are acting in accordance with their own self-interest, but at the same time, they depend on each other to get what they want. You could compare it to international relations, and we all know how fraught they can be.
@soyboy999 There was nothing in men's self interest about voluntarily giving up power to women.
It was meant to make them happier (Because we do in fact love them), but instead they're less happy, complain more, and as evident by this thread don't even realize that we did this for them. We built a world opposed to nature, where the weak could stand along the strong, and they hate us for it. A society where women can pursue whatever life they want, no longer have to rely on men, and they somehow feel oppressed...
Men weren't served by this at all. That of course wasn't the goal though. We didn't do it to be self serving, we did it to be compassionate.
@ThatPersonOverThere You don't give women enough credit at all. Sorry, but your "men built everything and then generously shared it with women" claim simply does not wash. There has always been a division of labour between the sexes.
@soyboy999 LOL don't even bother, he's fucking delusional and how he's inactive. How sad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdofmoYcJNE
@Volvagia We all have our demons...
We could easily subjugate them if we wanted to. Luckily for them, we don't want to.
Women could, if the leader was a woman. Then even if the police and others were mostly men, they would obey their female leaders laws and so the leader would be able to give women their rights.
Our PM is a corrupted witch though.
To be honest with you ; woman run our government, so no, woman have power and rights because they are able to and because they have strength. Not because men are men or any other fairy tale gibberish. Woman are strong and can be very independent.
Lol
www.cbssports.com/.../
We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
According to the DOI, rights are guarecerse by God.
We have our natural rights, and our governmental rights. However the government does not give us rights. The government is told that we have these certain rights under the constitution and that they shall not be infringed.
Guaranteed
Doubt it. I'm willing to bet plenty of us women own guns, and know how to use 'em.
No one is going to mess with you that’s for sure lol
Mannn, you are so unaware of how this world works. Men rule the world and men is being ruled by women.
And pls dont ask this kind of questions or we will end up 2 moths (at least) without sex and that is just the begining
Yes, we could.
We could stop fucking y'all.
How well does that work for women in heavily patriarchal places?
If we never let women Vote they would have no power. They were granted rights because politicians wanted their votes. Look at the court system women are favored in courts because the gov still feels like they are vulnerable. Child support alimony custody and they’re given shorter jail time for the same crimes. It’s all about votes. Look at places that don’t have democratic governments or some that do. Middle East, Africa, and Asia. They don’t say shit over there because they’ll be punished, beaten or raped.
@englisc To be honest, was just being an asshole. But, I like to believe not all men just get off on raping women.
Lmao I was in Africa about 10yrs algo for a few weeks and they seem to enjoy it. I can’t imagine living like that but I guess that’s as close as you can get to humans in an uncontrolled environment
Of course not, but my point is that it's men who'll protect you from the kinds of guys who would - whether that's cops or just the men in your family - in places where men don't have any respect for women that doesn't happen.
@ChronicThinker Most of us fuck our hand anyway, sooo...
You don't think men wouldn't just rape women if women refused to have sex with men? That comment does show the sexual power women have though, and how men are way more sexually attracted to women than women are to men.
I know right, it’s crazy they are always crying because all we want is sex. That’s the only thing they have we need. If they didn’t have a vagina we would have eaten them long ago lmao😜
I suppose there is truth in the statement but i don't taking them away in today's society is possible. I think us women would put up a good fight.
With exception to some extremist women why would we want to?
Sure women need to be a bit more responsible due to their increased rights but I don't see a positive to taking them away even if we wanted to.
Yes men allowed it and are largely responsible. I am all in favor of women's rights but they have swung way too far in their favor in some areas. The obvious one being divorce law and yes men are mostly the blame for that too.
Well, it likely would not be easy. But if it came down to physical fighting, men would likely win. Not sexist, I am aware that women are equal to men. But men are built for combat. Its genetic.
It would be like slavery. While it might be possible it is not a desirable situation. We all need to work together to make things better