Some says they looks sub-Saharan or West-African and others claims that they looks either Middle-eastern (Arab or Persian) or how Egyptians looks like today. When asking this question, I'm talking about how the majority of Egyptians looked like. I knows in most countries there's always someone who looks different due immigration or an exception. #Egyptian#History#AncientEgypt#Race
On the reconstruction of Tut Ankh Amon and Nefertiti they looks mostly Middle-eastern. Many Egyptian mummies also have straight hair and Middle-eastern facial features. Because of people coming with contradictory answers, therefor I'm curious and asking.
Ancient Egyptians (my ancestors) mostly look like the Egyptians of today except they had somewhat darker completions based on Ancient Egyptian art depictions, where they had brown completions, but the Nubians (also my ancestors) as having much darker skin, while the Liyians (also my ancestors) and SW Asians (also my ancestors) having considerably lighter completions.
Many (not all) Egyptians today have Arab and European ancestries (Greek, Roman, and others) hence probably have lighter completions than their ancestors. Modern Egyptians come in all shades and variations because if their diverse and long history. Egypt is also located at the crossroads of civilizations, so it's not unusual that the country's genetic make up is very diverse today.
The peoples of the Mediterranean and Middle East were (and still are) Caucasian, although obviously not fair skinned in the Celtic or Nordic way. The massive Arab and Persian intrusions leavened this, but did not change it, as the Arabs and Persians are much the same. The Sahara Desert was a barrier not unlike an ocean, which only the hardiest of Sub-Saharan Africans crossed voluntarily (being brought up as slaves by the Arabs and Persians was not).
@Jessgem Get real. Berbers were (and are) around Morocco and Algeria, and are definitely different looking from those below the Sahara. Nubians are the people south of Egypt, and they are Sub-Saharan, yes.
Sorry, bone structure IS genetic.
If you want to go by Skin Color alone, then yes, it's definitely shades of brown, ranging from pasty to coal.
But appearance differences are much more than that. Indian (Subcontinent) peoples are definitely not Sub-Saharan African either.
"Scientists have studied the biological concept of race for centuries, most infamously to find differences of intelligence or character they thought corresponded with skin color. Although such theories have since been disproved and exposed past European scientists’ feelings of superiority, today’s anthropologists still closely analyze skeletons for the tiny differences — mainly in the skull and femur bones — to detect where a person’s ancestors came from."
@Curmudgeon Arabs and Persians are not "the same". Persians are Indo-Aryan ethnicity, while Arabs are Semitic. @Jessgem Egiptians are Hamitic ethnicity, just like Berbers, but they were conquered by the Arabs in the 7th century a. d. Coptic Egyptians have preserved their separate ethnic identity, while the majority of them who converted to Islam were arabized (assimilated by Arabs). Arabs are Caucasians too, but darker version, because of the climate conditions. Caucasian race consists of Aryans, Semites and Hamites: sites.google.com/.../caucasian-races-aryans-hamites-semites
Indeed, I agree, there are ancient paintings, as a proof that Egyptians were not black, you can compare them with their slaves here: baomoi-photo-1-td.zadn.vn/.../10_80995.jpg
As you can see, Egyptians were obviously lighter-skinned compared to Ehtiopians.
@Jessgem modern Egyptians do in fact cluster within the Caucasian group.
Caucasian is not synonymous to European or white. It's not a skin color, some Japanese people are fair skinned but that doesn't make them europid. It's about the bone structure aswell as genetic distance. A North African is on average genetically closer to a European and a Middle Eastern than he is to a sub saharian African unless he has sub saharian. ancestry.
I'm done with y'all. Modern eyptians who obviously came from Muslim countries are not the same as the ones who were they BEFORE they got there. Indigenous Africans are no where near Caucasian. Caucasian is not even an accurate term to describe anyone.
@Jessgem 1. Ancient Egyptians were not "indigenous tribes", they were a Hamitic ethnicity (type of dark skinned Caucasians from North Africa, related to Berber and Tuareg). 2. No, Egyptians are not "from Muslim countries", they were occupied by the Arabs in the 7th century, and most of them were assimilated (arabized), but their genes remained mostly the same (of course, they were mixing with them). 3. Descendants of ancient Egyptians are present-day Copts, they are not Muslims but Orthodox Christians, Coptic language evolved from ancient Egyptian, and it's clearly different from Arabic.
Literally most Egyptians are Muslims. The Muslim religion is not indigenous to Africa. Most Africans were into voodoo and lived off the land. Read about the Haitians who are also from Africa and stolen waayyy before my ancestors came to America.
The Dogon people of Mali have a rich history and are believed to be descendants of ancient Egyptians. They are renowned for their astronomical knowledge and wisdom dating back to 3200 B. C. Astonishingly, the Dogon knew about Sirius, the brightest star in the sky, and its three-star system (Sirius A, Sirius B, and Sirius C) long before scientists began contemplating the star’s existence. They knew that Sirius B was invisible to the naked eye and that it has a 50-year orbital period.
@Jessgem Not all the Africans are Sub-Saharan, as I said, Egyptians were indigenous - Hamitic ethnicity, which is a darker version of Caucasians, who lived in Afrika thousands of years before the Arabs. Religion doesn't change anything, they are still different from the original Arabs (from Arabian peninsula), because Egyptians are not Semitic ethnicity (unlike Arabs). Descendants of ancient Egyptians (I repeat), are Copts, not "Dogons", and as you can see, they are not Muslims, nor black Africans, they are Hamites (African Caucasians): weekly.ahram.org.eg/.../...8854860-885_resized.jpg
Whatever. Believe want you want. I'll believe what I want. Caucasian means nothing and a made up term to classify people by their skull types which also means nothing. I go by actually Africans living in Africa. Light skin Africans or even "white" Africans ancestors have came from another country. It makes no sense that the slaves they bought here and to the Caribbeans are dark skin but you still believe ancient egyptians are light skinned. Just so you know the Dogon people fleed Eygpt so they wouldn't have to be Muslim. Instead they decided to maintain their culture which closely resembles ancient Egypt and their dark skin but believe what you want.
Genetically, Copts are a distinct population, albeit more closely related to the Muslims of Egypt than to any other population. They are Muslim. Islam is not an African religion. Before Islam, Africans believed in various gods. Muslims believe in only one God. But okay.
@Jessgem Your "believing" won't change anything because you are ignorant. Egyptians were not some African tribe. You talk nonsense like "Africans living in Africa" - Sure, Asians also live in Asia, but not all Asians are the same, for example, Chinese people are obviously different from Indians, who live nearby. I showed you the picture as a proof, take a look again, Egyptians were not black, they were lighter skinned, compared to their African slaves from Ethiopia, Nubia and Somalia: baomoi-photo-1-td.zadn.vn/.../10_80995.jpg
Basically, not all Africans are the same, just like not all Asians are the same, just like not all the people from Oceania are the same etc. Arabs came to Egypt in the 7th century, but Egyptians were Caucasians long time ago before the Arabs even knew about the Egypt. The Arabs only imposed their religion, and their language, but Egyptians were practically unchanged. As for the Copts, they preserved Orthodox Christianity (not Islam) as their religion.
Modern Egyptians are light skinned because most of them are Arabic. Arabics are light skinned. Muslims conquered Egypt after the Greeks. I don't know how else to explain it.
Also you do realize that Jews, Christians and Muslims all believe in the same God right? The only difference is their prophet. Jews have Moses. Christians have Jesus and Muslims have Muhammad? It's not that unbelievable that the Copts are closely related to Muslims or that they are Christians.
"2017 genetic study of 83 mummies from northern Egypt (buried near modern-day Cairo), which constituted "the first reliable data set obtained from ancient Egyptians using high-throughput DNA sequencing methods," showed that these persons were most closely related to the diverse modern populations of what is now the Arab world, particularly the southern Levant and Arabia, as well as Turkey, while also indicating smaller affinities to the neighboring southeastern European and sub-Saharan African (Nubian) populations. All 83 mummies had significant levels of sub-Saharan African ancestry, but this ancestry was relatively distant. Specifically, the mummies contained between 6% and 15% sub-Saharan African ancestry, with this component getting increasingly large in the later eras of Ancient Egypt. The study's authors noted that this is much less than the percentage of sub-Saharan African ancestry in modern Egyptians, and emphasized the genetic distance between Ancient and modern Egyptians."
@Jessgem I know that, but Copts are Christians, not Muslims, as you can see, their symbol is an Orthodox cross. They are not in very good relationship with the Muslims because they consider them invaders (Arabs) and traitors (assimilated Egyptians who converted to Islam). Of course the mummies had only 6% and 15% of similarities with Nubians, because they were their slaves, as you know, some of the Egyptians masters were forcing slaves to prostitution, that's why there were some mixing, but Egyptians were, I repeat - Hamitic, not Sub-Saharan... the ancient paintings clearly show that Egyptians had lighter skin, compared to their slaves.
@Zorax With all of that being said, even Arabs are part of the caucasoid race but Arabs are the first group to break off from the Eurasian population and got genetically isolated.
Modern Egyptian are not predominentally Arab though. Copts didn't intermarry a lot with foreigners meaning they kept somewhat genetic isolation and are closest to ancient Egyptians. The Muslim Egyptians are for the most part Arabized copts who may or may not, depending on the indivudual, have other influences (such as Greek and Arab and Sub Saharian and even Balkan/Turkish) however the main genetic base would still be native Egyptian.
When Arabs , Greeks, Turks etc took control of Egypt they didn't commit mass genocide of the native population. It's safe to assume modern day Egyptians and especially copts are descendants of ancient Egyptian but also have some over admixture in them with other population due to historical events.
Yeah of course they are sub saharan. Look an an ancient African map. Africa use to be half it's size so why wouldn't they have sub saharan DNA? I think you need to do some research because if the Arabs came in the 7th century. What makes you think that ancient Egyptians and I mean before the Greeks and Romans came, that Egyptians weren't sub saharan? You need to learn reading comprehension. It literally says ancient and modern Egyptians have different DNA. Meaning not the same.
I wish people would open a history book or do some research. Africans are dark skin. A light skinned African is like a little skinned black person. They have other DNA besides African. That's doesn't make them less African or black. Most of the Muslim population migrated from somewhere else. African tribes who are indigenous do not worship a Christian, Jewish or Muslim God. They worship many gods. Making it null and void of trying to associate them with anyone who is of the same religion or background. Religion is not a basis for heritage or ethnicity. Arabs are European meaning from European countries. Most likely from Israel. They probably came after the Jews and Muslims were fighting over Palestine.
@ElissaDido I know and I completely agree, Arabs are Semitic Caucasians, while Egyptians are Hamitic Caucasians. They were mixing, and change in religion and language didn't change their genes.
@Jessgem Egyptians were not sub-saharan, they were Hamitic, and no, they are not European, they are North African Caucasians, they were lighter skinned compared to sub-saharans, see their ancient frescos (paintings) - again. They were Caucasians thousands of years before the Arabs came to Egypt, because both Greeks and Romans describe Egyptians as lighter skinned than Nubians, Ethiopians and Somalians.
@Jessgem Actually, it means people from Europe, North Africa, or the Middle East. Sheesh again. And the leftists at Sapiens are assigning much more weight to a word than it really carries.
@Jessgem Ancient Egyptians were dark skinned Caucasians (that doesn't mean Europeans). Hamitic are Copts and Berbers, not Arabs. Arabs are Semitic (just like Hebrews, Assyrians, Arameans, Phoenicians, Akkadians etc). Arabs are not from Europe, they came from Arabian peninsula (present day Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Oman, Yemen etc).
Honestly, what white American you know ancestry leads back to Egypt or Arab ancestry? All white Americans are either Irish, Italian, Scottish, etc. Ancient Egyptians have no "white" or "Caucasian" ancestry. Do a test now. I doubt it would list Egypt as one of y'alls ancestry. Black Americans in the other hand ancestry traces back to Africa. I don't understand y'all. You ain't anywhere from Africa even if you wanted to be. Why do you even care what these Egyptians were? Their DNA and yours don't match up at all.
And also to believe that no dark skin Egyptians exist is ridiculously ignorant. Black people are everywhere. Do you honestly think everyone in Egypt looks Arab or light skinned? That's stupid. Black people are EVERYWHERE including Egypt. Why do you think there is so much racial tension in Africa? It's not because they all look the same. Get out of here with your bullshit. Let's both do an ancestry test and see who's DNA leads back to Africa.
@Jessgem I'm not American, I'm European, and unlike Americans, we have much better education, especiall when it comes to history and geography. I already told you that Egyptian ancestry doesn't lead to Arabic (Semitic), it leads to Coptic (Hamitic). No, most of the white Americans are either English, German, Dutch etc - but there are people from all over the Europe who went to America (including Italians, Irish and others you mentioned). Ancient Egyptians were Caucasians, as I explained, that doesn't mean "white", Caucasian race consists of three larger ethnic groups: Aryans, Semites and Hamites (historical documents made by Greeks and Romans confirms that, as well as ancient Egyptian paintings displaying Egyptians as lighter skinned compared to their slaves). I repeat, I never said that Egyptians are "Arabic", they are Coptic, and the only black people in Egypt were slaves. Black Africans are indigenous in most of the Africa, but not in the North Africa, which is mostly Caucasian
Ancient Egyptians looked similar to what a modern day Egyptian would look like, especially Copic Egyptians meaning they are not European looking but are mostly part of the Caucasoid race.
The ancient Egyptian are of Eurasian origin meaning they did a back to Africa migration just like all Noth Africans.
The ancient Egyptians used to represent themselves as brown, therefore neither black nor white.
Exactly, this is the best answer 👍 Coptic Egyptians looked like Berbers (Amazighs), also known as Moors (Mauri people), as well as Tuareg. Ancient Greek word for Egypt was Αίγυπτος (Aegyptos) - derived from Gyptos (meaning Copt in ancient Greek language). When I went to school, we had some references about the North African ethnicities in the history class... I guess Americans and west Europeans still don't know about the ancient Caucasians in Maghreb.
Most Egyptians we're darker in skin color, not black though more so dark tan. However the royal family was different as Egypt was at one point taken over by the Romans. In fact Cleopatra was descended from these Romans, as such she technically wasn't Egyptian at all.
So you're telling me Cleopatra's mom and dad were both Greek when scholars clearly state her pure Greek blood ended with her great great grandfather? And the fact that no one in her family made a love child with dark skin or brown skin african?
"For the first six generations the wives of the ruling Ptolemies also came from the same Macedonian background as their husbands. So until the time of Cleopatra’s great-grandfather, the ethnic makeup of the dynasty was still pure Macedonian Greek. "
@Charlotte_May huh interesting this is Wikipedia and thus not a proper source. However if this is true that the information about the other Cleopatra I read is incorrect. Because the only information I could find about a Cleopatra from Macedonia was way before the Cleopatra we are talking about. The one I read about never stepped foot into Egypt.
@Jessgem The Ptolemaic dynasty was based on incest and occasional marriages with the Seleucid dynasty, which was in turn based on incest, marriages with the Ptolemaic dynasty and marriages with the Antigonid dynasty. In short, the Ptolemaic dynasty was almost entirely Macedonian in origin. Not sure though can't remember everythinh
@Jessgem huh cool! Gotta admit tho her carpet trick is what I find most interesting about Cleopatra. I don't particularly care about her race. But at least I know the probable race now.
They probably looked very similar to Egyptians in modern times. The Egyptians were conquered multiple times throughout their history, by conquerers such as Hittites, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Crusaders, French, Ottomans, and finally the English (I probably missed a few). But with the exception of the Arabs, who settled in the region, most of these conquerers set up a ruling class if their own race. They didn't miss with the native commoners. Even the Arabs were less likely to intermittent with the native population than to marry within their own class. So to answer your question, they'd probably lol like Copts.
The Fayum mummy portraits give a pretty good of an idea. (At least of people wealthy enough to have themselves mummified) They're from the Roman period tho, after the Romans had conquered Egypt, so sorry if that's too late. But they were still the same people ethnically speaking, I think.
Well I'm an Egyptian in the modern days people tend to be brown or a bit white some are pale In the old days the normal people outside the royal family their skin colour differed from black to white as it's viewed in temples which explains their skin tone
The royal family in the other hand they were like normal Egyptians but some had whiter skin colour because in the past a lot of royals used to marry for tactical allegiances to other countries like Persians, Romans , etc and Cleopatra wasn't Egyptian she was Greek and she was from the Ptomley dynasty
No photographs from that period. But the genetic analysis of the mummies of Ancient Egypt show more genetic commonality with people based east of the Mediterranean Sea. So one would guess they would have a high probability of having similar phenotypes, though that is not always the case.
Modern day Egyptians do not have the same genetic footprint.
Ranging from dark black to brown-black. Based on his review of scientific literature, Diop concluded that most of the skeletons and skulls of the ancient Egyptians clearly indicate they were very similar to those of modern Black Nubians and other people of the Upper Nile and East Africa
Real Egypt was originally African but their rulers have white blood but only a few were married with locals to create new hybrid offsprings. Middle eastern people annexed Egypt in the 1700s to 1800s. They are the not the real Egyptians.
Egypt was annexed by tons of different groups throughout the history. Persians, greeks, Romans, arabs, turks and then the Brits. They were always a pretty diverse group so "real egyptian" doesn't sound right
Brown in complexion. Believe it or not black/brown people have a lot of genetic variation. Straight hair and other features commonly found on "white" people are not exclusive to only "whites"
They look middle eastern/black/brown skin. Africa was much smaller than it is now so mostly like they look like modern Africans before the middle east came in to impregnate Africans and settle there.
@RolandCuthbert You don't make any sense...-_- They were Caucasian and that's proved now if you have a problem with these kind of question why do you even bother to respond to them? If that don't interest you to know what they look like...
Uhm. . . I don't make any sense? You made a statement, I responded. Then you ask me to ask the person who created thread.
Maybe you didn't even read it. He asks a question that you answered. Again, we don't know anything about how they looked. We only know through an analysis of the genetic evidence that has been gathered, the groups they shared genetic commonality with.
And that evidence can be found at the link I posted.
So now you want to talk? Well, you can state whatever you wish. I can say the looked like the cookie monster.
But facts are facts.
1. There are the writings of the Greek Historian Herodotus. Have you read them?
2. And what does their art show? Do you know? Have you seen it?
3. Genetic evidence. There are analysis of the teeth of ancient egyptians, there are analysis of their hair, and of other genetic evidence that gives clues to how they looked.
But there is no definitive record of what the "standard" Egyptian looked like. We only know with a certain degree of accuracy some common genetic traits. And I already explained which modern day populations have genetic common ground with them.
As for caucasian, what does that mean? Do caucasians even have any genetic commonality? You might as well say the Egyptians were humans.
Pretty sure they are all right. Egypt at that time even had Jews working as slaves to build the pyramids if I am not mistaken. So yea some middle eastern, some more African origins and etc.
@JesseTheMan Okay I am just following what I was taught in history class. A long time ago this happened. It's hard to prove either way which one of us was right.
Okay the roalty and stuff we can actually find and see art of was sort of lean. With they accomplished the average person was probably buff and cut af. Like Romans early Greeks and turn of the century American iron workers.
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