In traditions following our asses from dark ages you can find all sorts of things.
For example in Hindu culture women are supposed to pay men an amount of money in a marriage contract. In Muslim culture men are supposed to pay women, oh dear boy, money that is enough to put a student all the way through college, or to start a new business. I mean a lot, in addition to golden jewellery and expensive dresses. Freezing economies holding back prosperity, that's the reason in non Muslim places you can find the range of services in the society are countless, the excess wealth, even if there is no equality. It goes somehow well.
And so, in progressive muslim communities you can still say that women get somehow equal shot in public life. Women are smart, creative, and they have a positive stereotype to be less corrupt.
So they keep getting as much jobs, and public lives as they can, and they still charge men as much money for marriage as they can even if it wasn't a traditional one. Taking advantage of both femenism and tradition. Fake reform.
To make it easier it's like Martin Luther saying "ok guys, let's get rid of all the bad stupid stuff. But let's keep Indulgence 🤑🤑 huh?"
Yes, totally.
No, there is context to that.
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+1 y
jshm2 and TOTEPLASTER are the most stupid insulting disrespectful comments - not even opinions - I wouldn't want them to be superb or most helpful. Nevertheless the reader will judge.
Are modern Muslim girls hypocrite opportunists?
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Anonymous
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+1 y
lol I understand the pain but it is not the women. It is the culture and men forcing these cultures and religious beliefs. Their fathers, brothers, courts and religious leaders. Don't be silly they raise women like that and the society is mainly dominated by men. Many Muslim countries don't even allow women to be religious leaders or court judges and almost all Muslim countries don't let a woman marry without a male legal guardian approval. So stop this one sided crap. Many Muslim women don't have the sexual freedom to even chose a partner let alone having sex before marriage. And whether that money is for her as a religious declared right, or to her family you need to remember that religion gave control to men. If you don't like it than change it because you are a man living in such society. It is not the women who run those communities.
Double standards. Women don't get the upper hand in these communities don't be delusional.
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Asker
+1 y
Ok, it's solid women rights are neglected , I didn't generalize even a bit. I am talking about "progressive muslim women". Ok? Relax. I am talking about fake reform. Or reform that is only made to impress western countries and connect with the world economically without fundamental intellectual serious change from within institutions and education.
Failure to do so, demonstrates itself with flaws such as what I just described. Oh yes, I want gold, I want male garduanship benefits. But I also want femenist benefits as well.
God, why is my commenters always angry freaks. lol.
So yes, I understand your eager to defend women. And no, no pain at all, thank you though. But responding to male injustice with female injustice actually serves no cause. And the only way to win, or debate ideas in order to change such society, is to be rational.
And in the same time it is always women who are leading femenist movements, and pushing femenist agenda. So they can say for example "need to remove marriage payment, we are no property" stuff like that. You know? At that time men will say, oh they make sense, and maybe accept whatever rights they claim in return. So yeah dear. 😊 That's the point.
Opinion Owner
+1 y
I wasn't angry but my point is that in these countries mainly legislations are handled by mainly a government controlled by men, society managed by men and courts chaired by men.
The problem with the payment is that it is a religious concept that would bring furious religious leaders to roar. Feminists women are attacked for their daring liberal ideas. They are accused of being westernized and whitewashed. Not to mention being called atheists or defining God's orders.
My point is that if men don't like it they need to call for the change or support women who do. Women go to prison when they define these rules in some of these Muslim countries and get wiped if not killed. I don't know from what country you come from but to focus on the fact women can work nowadays and think that they're demanding money just because they can is not true. They lack so many of their freedom and this society/ religious structure is not forced by women because they're not the ones leading these societies.
And you must know that the money gifted to a woman according to religion should be reasonable and the lesser it is the more blessed the marriage is. But in reality that's not what her father, brother or uncle wants or raised her to want. And the decision in most families is not her own to make. Even after she dies she can't control where her money goes. It is religion that does. And she can't marry without her dad's permission so many girls do pay their dad's or mother's sometimes so they can proceed without the shame of taking them to court.
Opinion Owner
+1 y
I live in a so called progressive Muslim country. I travel and I am highly educated and I work. I've seen first hand what happense when women dared to really be independent. Yes in my country the law protect women from getting murderd and if she reports abuse. But religouse and cultural beliefs are stronger. And many still get denied basic rights and they fear to speak up so they won't ruin the family reputation. She gets paid once in a lifetime for the prison she lives.
I would gladly not take any money for marriage but treat me as an equal first. Separate religion from court. Don't force me to obey an abusive father or brother by law. Don't force me to give them my wealth after I die. Treat me as human.
Yes there are many good men here but no one dares to criticism religion beliefs or traditions. And it is like winning the lottery. Men and women here are taught to be obedient and many men will defend these backwards beliefs. More than women will.
in a fair well balanced society I do agree with you. I think men and women should have the freedom to financially plan their marriage without any of these influences and outdated beliefs.
Opinion Owner
+1 y
did you know the punishment for having premarital sex? did you know that many force women to marry her rapist to protect her father honer? do you know that abortion is a crime even if it was a result of rape? did you know that even an abusive father does not lose his guardianship over his daughter? and that he still can force her to take care of him? and that he will inherit her? did you know that married women can't have birth control without her husband or doctor permission? that women can't be judges or president? or any critical government position with sensitive information? have you heard of honor killings? our value as women is to be virgin until marriage, have sex with you on demand, pop up babies, be obidient, and look pretty.
And my country is ranked high in equality. I've refused arranged marriage and I'd marry a westernized guy and wouldn't ask him a penny. Because my freedom worth more and I can make money.
Yes, I have the right to drive, work, education, healthcare, vote to a certain extent. I appreciate those rights. But I am not exempted from taking care of my many siblings. I am a virgin because I don't want to shame my mother after all her suffering. I wear hijab. I am a 'good girl' and I've always been. But I live in a prison and I can't escape. My golden sweet cage where I have to smile and take care of my mother and siblings and not shame them by running away. Yes I have thought of it. But they will punish me and my mom if I dare to escape. I will never be able to come back and they will lose everything.
So stop complaining about how expensive it is to marry. Money is the only suffering you have to endure. My body is tierd now from the abuse I took physically, sexually and mentally. Life is tasteless. I am just tired of living this life sometimes. Sorry for the rant but I hope you can see that men need to view us differently so things change for all of us.
Asker
+1 y
I understand you completely ❤️
I think we have more common ground to agree on than we have to debate. Just so you know.
Please understand that I am not anti women just for saying so. I'd still hope that there is a space to call for real reform, and that people understand that radicals are not a certain gender, not a certain race. It's a thought that needs to be debated and defeated. I could write this question about how bad Muslim men in general, and what's wrong with them, but that's covered anyway by a lot of people all the time. And thank you so much for your discussion. ❤️
Opinion Owner
+1 y
Omg I'm so sorry.. I should of been better and you are so kind and generous. Your words meant a lot to me 🌹
I wish many people are as compassionate and graceful as you are. I apologize again.
Asker
+1 y
Not mention, if for anything I'd hope and will be honoured to know you.
In the end you didn't say anything wrong.
Opinion Owner
+1 y
You are a sweet man I give you that
people forget that we are human first.. I dont tell people I am Muslim here.. only few people know
It is my safe haven the only place that I can truly be me and forget about the reality. Yes I know this website is full of bullies and hatred sometimes. But at least I am me. Not Arab nor Muslim. Just me. That's why I can't share my profile in this comment thread because I don't want it to be associated.
But you sound like a good Muslim and a good man and I can only wish you happiness 🌹
Asker
+1 y
Thank you, no one says that to me. I love how we can be ourselves as people here, without having our topics filled with religious text filled into every context. The uniformity of thoughts and opinions that makes people like programmed robots. On a personal level, I am also punished from my society. As you can see, I am 27, and I am still alone. For no reason but because I can't fit with a society I don't agree with, I am not a confirmist. And if I shop to marry a girl from my community it will be meaningless relationship based on breeding. I have to follow certain traditions while watching many people threatened by famine. for that cause while being in the worst country in the the arab world. And I don't want to force myself do stuff, I tried it once with my career choices it didn't work well with me. N I felt very humbled by your speech or "rant" lol, and it made me realise that I am still lucky to be a man in a male dominated society where gender inequality is the norm and the virtue. And again the same reason you wouldn't want to be a slave master. If there is a partner, a decent human being would wanna be equal to that person.
The reason I asked you to be my friend is because I try to surround myself with as many intellectuals and free minds as possible, it makes me feel less lonely and depressed. and as I made it clear, somehow, I saw myself in you in this forum. Except that I am not a virgin lol. So I am not that good to be honest 😅
So thank you thank you thank you for your kind words 🙏🙏🙏🙏
Opinion Owner
+1 y
I dont feel that I fit either. I feel a lone mentally and emotionally sometimes. My thoughts and ideas can't be shared with my friends, family or colleagues. So when you said you're non confirmist my heart screamed me too! but the reality is that only my mind and my soul are free. The rest of me learned the hard way to confirm. If I tell you my my story and not the awful stories I hear from other women and media. Just my own story you'll understand that being born a woman is simply a curse. A course that made me consider suicide and consider escaping. But I just couldn't because I have a mother and sisters that I always wanted to give them a life that's perhaps less ugly than mine. So I try to forget my nightmares and flashback, wipe the tears of my face, wear a hijab and Abaya that I hate, put a fake smile and work as hard as I can. I deal with objectification and sexim at work but I learned to pretend that it doesn't matter. At least no I don't get hit physically and I don't get molested. At least now the only thing that bothers me is how people want to use me financially especially my abusive father and brother. They threatened to kick my mom and sisters out of my own house after I die. Family fights about your death in your face is not a beautiful thing to experience trust me. And the law allows it. Because I have no value. I'm not married and don't have a male son. So everything I own basically goes to my father and brother. And I can't put a Will that legally denies them.
It is simply a curse to be born a woman
Opinion Owner
+1 y
I remember my mother fighting to divorce my father. She was threatened by the judge to be put in a disciplinary jail. She was placed under house arrest. Her family disowned her. She was forced to marry him at the age of 12. He was an awful person and a criminal. And we saw how abusive he was. He was always in and out of jail. He commited major crimes and he was just awful human being yet the courts forced my mother to stay for 15 years with him. She couldn't get access to birth control because he refused it. I saw her jump off of the roof while pregnant. My mom didn't die nor did the baby. I can't even start to tell you how we lived. homeless, fugitive, abused, hated by a society for the crimes my father did. We were kids. My father strangled me once because I didn't look at him when he was talking. I was molested as a child. And now I can't get married legally without his approval or paying him money like my sister did so he approves. Try explaining that to a man in this culture that you don't speak to your father and that you don't want him to be involved. You kidding me! Try telling a man that you were touched as a little girl and that you never had sex but you might not be a virgin. Do you know the humiliation and the invistigation you'd endure? the assumption is that you were a slut of some sort or brought it to yourself to be molested. What if he spread the news? What will happen to my family reputation?
So I keep my secret and refuse marriage because it's not worth it. And no I am not being dramatic. When I was young I fell strongly in love and he proposed to me and spoke to my mum. I told him about my childhood and I told him that I got molested. And that destroyed me. That's when I tried to kill myself. That broke my soul and my faith. Because it didn't matter how good I was. I was touched when I was a kid. That was more important than all my choices as an adult. All my fights to be a good woman and a good provider and a good support for my family.
Asker
+1 y
Oh, that really hurts. But so what, what if you aren't virgin technically, even if you sinned or something. Why is it your crime more than him the male. Why is it your fault in the first place. And your mother, OMG poor woman. And why are they talking about your death God forbids? Forgive me, how old are you? And are you healthy?
Yes we do what we can to survive or pretend to accept certain norms. But in the end of the day we are human, and we have rights, we are so lucky we live in a world where the side which stands up for justice and rights is more powerful, imagine if it was vice versa! Remember Rahaf Alqanon? Yes there's hope. And you are worthy. Please don't despair, stop any thoughts of self harm immediately! There's an army behind your back, who will not just provide you with emotional support. You aren't alone, neither in where you stand nor in the experience itself. I am from a country of small population that's why I won't feel safe to say which one, but we deal, and we know this stuff more than any place in the world. I am hooked and I have relationships with very powerful women rights activists both men and women. who will blame me for intentional neglect, but that's not gonna happen. Please, please, please, keep in touch 🙏 I created this new gag account (NewAccount9) especially for you. Inbox me if you want to go off record, or via my undercover email lol (romahabeeb9@gmail...) And this is what I will expect☝️ but if you are afraid, or reserved fine stay in this thread. But don't give up to your own thoughts or the environment foced upon you. And stay safe, stay safe. ❤️
Opinion Owner
+1 y
I didn't do anything wrong I was molested as a kid. First happened when I was six years old. But my viance didn't understand or sympathies and thought I slept around. Anyway it is the past now.
Thank you for the good gestures and warm words. I don't believe all men are evil. I just believe that we live in unfair unjust world. I can't thank you enough. I don't talk about these things with anyone and you were a good listener and a good human 🌹❤️
Firstly Hinduism and Islam are not cultures, they’re religions- there’s a difference.
Secondly it depends what you mean by “modern Muslim girls” the problem with the term “modern” is what people consider modern can be different.
That said, the marriage payment you’re talking about is a Mehr. It doesn’t have to be a huge amount, it can literally be anything the girl asks for, big or small- and we believe that Allah (God) actually prefers small Mehrs.
Not always. Not every girl asks for a large sum of money, I know one girl who literally just asked for a collection of the authentic Hadiths.
That’s true they do overlap. And I won’t speak on Hinduism because I don’t know much about that religion so I don’t really think it’s appropriate for me to comment on it, but with Islam definitely culture has distorted religion in the most unfortunate ways.
Are Muslim women 'hypocrite opportunists'? How many times did your mama drop you on your head as a baby? In 'traditional' Muslim countries, women are treated worse than livestock. When in Saudi Arabia during a rare thunder storm, a crew cab pickup truck went down the main street in Riyadh with the sons and two goats in the cab and the five women and girls exposed to the rain in the flatbed. After 15 years in "The Magic Kingdom Where All the Rides Are Free", I have enough stories and observations to eliminate any thoughts that Muslim women have a fun life. Your remark makes it clear that you have no experience with day-to-day life in any Mohammedstan.
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Asker
+1 y
Simple reply. Reread the title!! I am not talking about women of certain small communities.
How bitch does someone have to be to start an argument with personal attack or insult.
Jesus, I can be called radical, Islamophobe, racist, and all sort of contradictory crazy stuff in this post. just for making a little sense.
i think that this is an example of what people are complaining about. Its not about equality its about gaining as much advantage as they can. They won't voluntarily give up there advantages. You have to rip them away from her
You need to understand why I am offended by your question instead of taking it personally. And your mother is also a woman. Do you hate her too? 🖕 Why are you anonymous you coward? Man up and reveal your identity.🖕
Oh really, what's so offensive! Do you have anything objective to say?
N Go search why GAG created anynmous option instead of bothering and insulting me and my commenters you retard!! We're anonymous and more Respectful than you troll!! You know what that means? It means you have no decency!
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