Who are the true monsters in this case?

[Lliam]

The same ones who support looting, arson, vandalism, terrorism and violence by rampant mobs?

Veteran Judge Bruce Schroeder has been put under police protection after receiving hundreds of threatening messages over the course of the Kyle Rittenhouse murder trial. Schroeder has gained the ire of the media after lambasting the prosecution for violating Rittenhouse’s 5th amendment rights in open court and ignoring a court order on a certain piece of evidence.

[ShadezMcgee]

Schroeder and the jury did their jobs and upheld the law. They did nothing wrong. They went with the evidence they had and made a decision that will be a sour taste in the mouths of those who wanted them to vote guilty.

The ones who slandered them, threatened them and tried to intimidate them are the same cockbags that burnt the city down last year.

[Curmudgeon]

https://www.youtube.com/embed/e2AbfDlhOyc

[Lliam]

Tucker pretty much said it all.

[lightbulb27]

I think it's whoever decided to teach children decades ago that they all get a trophy, remove discipline like paddling from schools, and consequences, remove power from teachers in the classroom, and damaged the family unit where 2 parents raise children.

Kinda wonder if that was the CIA... or a foreign power infiltrating the establishment. Maybe McCarthy was right all along?

That lead to all this emotional disconnect and now we have a mess and one side specifically that is not tolerant (they love everyone, as long as they agree with their viewpoint) of having their position violated, in their perception, anymore. They also hate bullies, except they became violent and destructive bullies, but believe they are "good" bullies.

"Beam me up scotty".

[lightbulb27]

the root of this seems to be sadness and victimhood thinking... moving to anger from past abuses, neither of which is being addressed. Not the first guy shot, he was there for himself. Protests in this case lead to more perceived insults and slaps in the face if this goes not guilty (e. g. some see this as racism, continuation of unfairness... believe it or not).

One must realize frankenstein and adolph hitler... saw themselves as the good guy... perspectives are rooted i emotional conditioning...
Frank (stein) didn't do anything wrong... he just wanted love.

[lightbulb27]

Very well said...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcVw5QljNCE

[Grond21]

There are multiple ones. But in this particular case it seems to me that the state is acting in a way which can only be called evil. Attacking the constitutional rights of the defendant, lying to the court, doctoring evidence, withholding evidence, withholding key witnesses, Etc. Any one of these would be enough to normally have a mistrial with prejudice. The fact that we haven't had one yet is a crying shame. But it doesn't in any way reduce the extreme malfeasance of the prosecution

[joeldalton]

The true monsters were the governor and mayor of Wisconsin/Kenosha respectively are the true monsters. They allowed riots and lawlessness to occur without any repercussions to help Biden beat trump.

[BillyBalls]

The real monster was Jacob Blake.

He is the black thug who sexually assaulted his baby mama and was stupid enough to fuck with the cops.

If he didn't commit his sexual assault and fuck with cops there would be riot in Kenosha.

Too bad Blake got off easy... he only wound up in a wheelchair and not in a coffin.

[anylolone]

Here's a gem for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpHIxU0B5oI

[Lliam]

I love it! I've seen lots of videos of robbers getting their asses shot and shitting their pants. I laugh my ass off. I laughed at the video of the guy getting shot in the chest by Rittenhouse and then standing there like a dumb ass before he collapsed. And the same with the guy who got his arm blown off. "You stupid fuck. Just look at you now."
I wish there was a video of that robber fuck getting shot in the chest and see the realization on his face.
And his ghetto trash sister. "Yes, he's robbin' y'all. Oh well." She needs to be next. Can you imagine a creature like that having the potential to bring more ghetto trash into the world?

Good citizens with guns deter crime.

[anylolone]

Yes, and joggers gonna jog.

Like grosskrietz, in his own words he was just 'Running in the same direction", just a light armed jog with all "good intentions", lol!

[OddBeMe]

Anyone threatening harm to a judge, rioting or looting should be prosecuted. Be they Proud Boys, Trumpists or BLM. The issue is it’s not solely on one side.

[OddBeMe]

I would point to the kidnapping attempt of that female Guv…Michigan I think?

[Grond21]

Hey kidnapping plot of the Michigan Governor is a sticky example. As the trial has gone on, it has been revealed that over half of the plotters were in the FBI. And there's strong evidence today also came up with the idea, connected the people to who they needed to be connected to, and facilitated the whole thing. So while it's not resolved yet, it's looking like it might actually be an FBI plot as opposed to a right-wing one

[OddBeMe]

@Grond21 you think the plotters were FBI agents?

[Grond21]

At least six of the 12 were working for the FBI. Not sure if they were technically agents or not, or even if that matters. And there is some testimonies that both the idea and the plan for execution came from one of the FBI people.

Not all the information is out yet. But every time more information gets released it becomes even more damning against the FBI. It's starting to look like it was a setup. And if so, they could be charged with entrapment.

[OddBeMe]

@Grond21 oh informants! Those aren’t agents mate.
www.buzzfeednews.com/.../fbi-informants-in-michigan-kidnap-plot

[Grond21]

Informants, gotcha. But wow! There were over a dozen of them, twice as many as the actual accused. That smacks of entrapment

[OddBeMe]

So if your buddy tries recruiting you to kidnap the guv…pretty sure you’d turn informant.

Which is common among right wingers. That’s why the FBI has a whole wing devoted to them.

[Grond21]

Well he wouldn't be my buddy if he wanted to do that LOL.

That's the narrative that is common about right-wingers, but I don't see that that's necessarily true. Regardless, what happened here was different. It wasn't a bunch of people in the FBI recruited 12 of the group, it was 12 people who were hired specifically to insinuate themselves into the group. They were all from outside when they were hired by the FBI. And it now looks like the FBI informants not only came up with the idea, not only connected them to the people they needed to be connected to, but even paid for them to get together and plan it out.

At what point do you feel like it doesn't become entrapment? Even if these six lowlifes were willing to do something like that, it seems to me it was an FBI plot from beginning to end.

[OddBeMe]

@Grond21 no…just no. The fbi doesn’t have to make up right wing plots. They’re already out there.

[Grond21]

Of course. But that doesn't mean this particular one is one of those

[OddBeMe]

@Grond21 maybe next time liberals do something I don’t like, I’ll just yell “fake news!”. Pathetic.

[Grond21]

Am I missing something?

[OddBeMe]

@Grond21 Maybe I spend too much time reading about true crime. Just because they had so many people turn on each other doesn’t mean this didn’t happen.

[Grond21]

I guess I'm not sure which part you were referring to. Are you saying that the FBI plot didn't happen or the accused didn't instigate it? Or something else?

[OddBeMe]

@Grond21 you're saying its fake aren't you? Have we been having a row over nothing?

[Grond21]

I didn't reach a conclusion yet. I'm saying it's looking like the FBI created the plot. So it was a real plot but it was one made by these FBI people. However all the evidence isn't in and I'm waiting to make a full conclusion. That's the direction it's tending though

[OddBeMe]

@Grond21 So lets say half are informants, that leaves 7 others who were intent on killing cops and kidnapping a governor.

[Grond21]

Yes there are, and it's definitely a problem that there are seven people who were willing to be coerced and manipulated by the FBI into participating in a plot like this. But the bigger problem is that the FBI were setting it up. So you have the FBI who found people who were already angry and volatile, and then entraped them in order to create some kind of narrative. I don't know what and I don't know why, but that is the real problem in my opinion

[OddBeMe]

@Grond21 I guess I’d say show me the evidence they were entrapped. Their lawyers will get them off if that happened.

[Grond21]

If they were entrapped, and it's the FBI that did it? There's no guarantee the lawyers will get them off.

And like I said, we don't have proof either way yet. It's just starting to really look like that

[OddBeMe]

No there’s actual evidence they were planning to kidnap the governor.

[Grond21]

I'm aware of that evidence oh, and I wasn't disputing it. But it's the plot to kidnap the governor was primarily created and facilitated by the FBI, then the plan should be laid at their doorstep

[OddBeMe]

@Grond21 sure. If.

[Grond21]

Yep. And that was what I was trying to say originally. It's an if, it's not known yet. It's just pointing in the direction of the FBI as the perpetrator as more and more evidence comes out

[OddBeMe]

@Grond21 like the election. If. No proven fraud. Wait…. Why do you get to stop everything when you think there’s an if…?

[Grond21]

What are you talking about? Are you bringing in another issue? I am not following you

[Soteris]

On one hand we have people who according to you has damaged property, on the other hand we have Kyle Rittenhouse who through his own poor judgement and personal choices put himself into a position where he killed people. Even if you think that he did nothing wrong I still consider people who unnecessarily puts other peoples lives in danger to be a worse monster than someone who destroy replaceable property.

[Ryfyle]

I bet your terrible at fellatio.

[Soteris]

@Ryfyle Ouch, that hurts man.

[joeldalton]

This is quite possibly one of the stupidest interpretations of what happened. But not shocking considering the source.

Please note that if a mob is ever chasing you, it’s your legal obligation to let them kill you according to your position.

[Lliam]

@Soteris. Yeah totally wrong to put out a deliberately set dumpster fire, try to flee when you are attacked for doing so, then defend your life when people are literally trying to kill you.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton If you run into a known mobster office, make them chase you and kill them in public where innocent people can get caught in the crossfire then yes that is fucking stupid and you should not do that.

[lightbulb27]

@Soteris the arguments on the left seem to hover around... Kyle shouldn't have been there (age, curfew) nor been armed like that (age, albeit was legal). By having the weapon, he escalated the situation, and thus is at fault. His response thus doesn't justify his action, including shooting 4 times... to kill someone. Is that what you are saying?

[Ryfyle]

@lightbulb27 He's grasping at straws in an argument that can easily used to excuse rape.

[joeldalton]

He didn’t “make anyone chase him”. He was protecting a friend’s property from being destroyed by an out of control riot. He showed actual bravery. Something that is foreign to you.

[Juxtapose]

@joeldalton FACTS

[ShadezMcgee]

Right. If you want to pull that card, we can say the same for the rioters. None of them had a reason to be there either, yet they burn down the city, destroy people's livelihoods and attack someone who is fleeing while holding a weapon.

They wouldn't think to chase down police like that if police were armed, but they do it to a kid. This could have been avoided had Governor Evers done his job and allowed the guard in as a deterrent and the police weren't restricted because of all the bullshit that happened last year with Floyd, Blake, etc. When that isn't happening, people who live there and have a reason to defend shit should and will. Armed citizens acting as their own personal deterrent and protecting what is theirs is taking accountability and a means of survival.

[Lliam]

@ShadezMcgee Good points. Well said.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton He did not in fact protect a friends property.

@lightbulb27 There are many things he did that was wrong on different levels especially based on your views. Some of the less arguable ones are the fact that he was armed when the law said it was illegal (No I do not care that the charges was dropped because the judge thought the law was poorly written and somehow dont apply to him).

I am honestly getting tired of repeating myself at this point so ill just summarize why I personally think Kyle did wrong. He explicitly went there to seek conflict and that conflict killed people. That is.. how to say this.. NOT GOOD and add to that the fact that he armed himself which should mean that he carries a larger responsibility to not endanger the people around him and yet he does this stupid stunt and KILLS PEOPLE.

People will go on and on about how him being there is not illegal in and of itself but if your reckless actions and stupidity directly leads to the death of others or very serious danger to the public I think that you are in the wrong.

[Soteris]

@ShadezMcgee Fucking horrible points. Just because someone does something wrong does not mean they are fair game to do illegal things towards. If you think the rioters did something wrong then you should arrest them and put them in a court of law. Using your argument then Kyle Rittenhouse broke the law first by illegally purchasing a gun through a friend and since the law no longer applies to Kyle by your stupid logic it would be entirely okey to smash his face in with a skateboard and burn down the city while you are at it.

I also urge you to learn about social unrest before you open your mouth again. Forcefully trying to stop riots DO NOT WORK. If you deploy riot police and start going after the rioters you are just adding fuel to the fire. They will riot MORE and LONGER resulting in more damages and destroyed property.

Especially since these rioters are protesting violent law enforcement. Trying to stop them using force is just PROVING THEM RIGHT in their eyes and making them more motivated. Geezes Christ its like I am surrounded by idiots on this site.

[lightbulb27]

@Soteris I see more where you are coming from, I'll let it be there. Your point is valid in terms of "inciting the escalation" so to speak and I think that will come to play more in the upcoming trial where Aubrey was killed and that verdict will differ because of it. There's some fine lines in judgement... of intent, rights, good and bad.

[joeldalton]

@Soteris. just so everyone reading, including you, is clear on your position. You believe Kyle Rittenhouse should have let the crowd assault and/or kill him.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton I believe that it is his own fault that he was put into a situation where he had to defend his life using lethal force. Also I personally do not think his life was in any real danger considering people dont generally murder each other even during riots and as evidence I point out that no one else killed anyone during those many days of rioting.

[Ryfyle]

@Soteris So you're pro pedophilia as well. The moral decay of the Decadent Left leaves so little to the imagination.

[joeldalton]

@Soteris one guy tried to hit him in the head with a skateboard, another drop kicked him, and a third pointed a gun a him. You are a moron.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton Yeah, good arguments there boyo. As for getting beat up and having guns pointed at you? Is that not normal in USA? I call that a routine US police control.

[Soteris]

@Ryfyle Oh I would LOVE for you to try justify how you got pedophilia from that. Take me through your reasoning step by step, I beg of you. This is going to be hilarious.

[joeldalton]

@Soteris. You really are in the top three biggest idiots on this website. I guess a lifetime of being in your mom’s basement gets you eventuallly.

[Ryfyle]

Rosenbaum fucked young boys, you defend Rosenbaum's claim to life. There for, You defend Boy Fuckers.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton You sound like someone who has never been beat up for being a smartass even once in your life.

[Soteris]

@Ryfyle... So... How does that make sense?

[joeldalton]

@Soteris you sound like someone who got his ass kicked constantly in school for being a fucking nerd.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton Implying that getting beat up is not a fairly normal thing that you dont have to go shooty shooty bang bang over.

[joeldalton]

@Soteris , no I’m explicitly stating that you are a pussy.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton Says the person who needs a gun to re-establish his manhood in the event that someone threatens to beat you up for being a stupid pussy.

[joeldalton]

Again, as you stated. No one risks trying to beat me up. I’m going to give you a little hint. You’re trying to flip the script on me but it will never work. Socialists are pussies. Always will be.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton Ahahaha! Lets go revisit the situation with Kyle Rittenhouse. He had a gun and threatened to use it, people still rushed to kick his ass. By what metric do you think that you are special?

[joeldalton]

@Soteris you stupid fuck. He had a gun for self defense, your faggot antifa soy boys tried to kick his ass and they got what they fucking deserved. As will you.

[Lliam]

@Soteris. When did he "threaten" to use, it cockdrip? When did he threaten ANYONE?

[Soteris]

@Lliam when he decided to open carry and more specifically when he POINTED IT AT THEM.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton Ah right. So people will still dare to kick your ass. Better hug that gun of yours to sleep because your manhood could never survive some humble pie.

[joeldalton]

You’re describing what Grosskreutz did.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton I am describing your phobia for being beaten up. Not saying it is pleasant but it is a thing that happens regularly in every part of our society. If every instance of casual violence ended with a gunfight like you are suggesting should happen then your country would be fucked.

[ShadezMcgee]

@Soteris I will disagree with that. To clarify, I never said it made them fair game by breaking the law, but they are breaking the law by causing arson and property destruction, in turn causing insurance rates and costs to the owners of said property, it is still a loss of property and in some cases it was not replaced because the costs long term would take too long or be impossible, so you are wrong to say it is just replaceable. There were interviewed business owners who said they lost everything and can't replace it. Leaders of the state and city should not stand idly by and let their state and city be destroyed, they have responsibility and accountability to their citizens to hold. That is appeasing violence, not deterring it and protecting those who wish to not get involved. When you limit intervention from authorities and do not enforce a level of escalation of force, that is when riots get out of control. How do you arrest a riotor without getting physical? You said that needs to be done, so how do you do it? You allow them to riot that will only encourage it and enable them to do it more. That is a failure of leadership to your state and statesman. There is a massive difference between a protest and a riot. Riots are an act of violence, not protest. Protest would be Rosa Parks refusing to give up her seat on the bus and getting arrested in the process. She did not use any violence. Same with Gandhi. He was protesting. Protesting does not include violence on any scale.

Controlling riots using police force proves the rioters right in THEIR eyes because they are protesting the riots. Key bit of your argument there. The RIOTORS believe they are right, those that disagree with them and see it differently say otherwise. They see that as an act of violence and civil unrest.

[Lliam]

Oh. Open carrying is threatening? I guess so if you are pussy assed, hoplophobic or criminal.
And when did he point it? Oh, when people started attacking him. Uh, that's what a gun is for. See how a cop will react when someone tries to disarm him or take his head off with a skateboard.

I fucking laugh and celebrate when I watch the videos of those bags of shit dying from their own stupidity.

[joeldalton]

@Soteris no. you are trying to rationalize you getting your ass kicked because you are a pussy. The shit stains in Kenosha fucked around and found out.

[Soteris]

@ShadezMcgee Saying property is replaceable means that you can replace it with new property as opposed to try revive someone who is gone permanently AKA the permanence of Death. This is very important when talking about the weight of certain things and for example why the death penalty is objectively immoral.

As for who is responsible or accountable for the damages caused by riots and all that. First of all, the best time to stop a riot is before it happens. If one happens it is almost guaranteed to be the direct result of a long chain of failures to act by various people and entities and at that point the problem has grown to such a degree that damages is already inevitable.

You can also read the manuals on these things yourself. Its a fairly well researched subject by both national militaries and police/governments and the pages has been written through bloody trial and error because doing it wrong leads to escalations of violence and killings. This is also why delicate law enforcement is handled by trained experts and not by random civilians trying to defend their city or property and by doing so most likely making the situation infinitely worse.

Riot police (if properly trained) have a good understanding of how people react both individually and as a group. They can read the crowd and understand what they are going to do to a fairly large degree which includes it evolving from various forms of peaceful protests to more violent forms or back again. They also know how to act if needed, what they can probably get away with and what the crowds reaction will most likely be if they dont get away with it.

Point is that they can direct the social unrest to the best outcome with the fewest damages and casualties. This is not done by charging in there and trying to force the issue however and it can take literal days of hard work to finally disperse a social unrest. They are NOT simple things to deal with.

[Soteris]

@Lliam Nice going playing into the stereotype of Americans being uncivilized barbarians.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton "Fucking around and found out". Found out what exactly? That the rule of law dont apply in these lands? The duty of judging and applying punishment is supposed to be held by the court and not in the hands of a teenager who is afraid of getting some bruises. Even if you think that Kyle did nothing wrong and that it was self defense the rational standpoint of someone who believes in modern society is still that justice was not served this day since they could not be tried in court due to them being killed.

People like you truly dont share the fundamental values of modern society that you live in.

[ShadezMcgee]

@Soteris human life and objects are not the same thing, in terms of replaceabulity, that much is true, however, the point I am making is the individuals who had no part in this could not even replace their businesses, their lifeline to make a living because insurance costs outweighed the amount they could return in a timely and effective manner. They may not have most their moves on a literal standpoint, but they sure as hell lost their main source of revenue and support. Ruined by these punks in the process. People are born every day and they die every day. The ones who died were accountable for their decisions to be there that night and their decisions to attack an armed person who was fleeing from. them from the get go. That is what I am getting at. They chase a fellow civilian and countryman, but they sure as hell wouldn't do that to a cop because they knew about the consequences of doing so. Attack an officer is practically a death sentence. But attacking someone who is not is ok? No, it's not.

Now this is what I was getting at when I first commented on your post with getting people in place before the riots took place. The guard and police could have been ready to stop it from the start, they were not given the permission to do so to keep the riots from starting. Cops were held back because of what happened with Floyd, Blake and Taylor. Guard needs to be ordered in by the Governor. He did not do so. So in reality, he and the mayor if Kenosha could have stopped that and they failed, that is their failure and they were never held accountable for that. They turned their backs on it to let the riots start and escalate beyond control which spreads and after businesses were done, it would go to personal homes.

[ShadezMcgee]

@Soteris now to go with police training, this is another issue that revolves around cities, counties and states. Officers are supposed to be trained to a specific standard, but there is no national standard. You have a budget dedicated to train them from the city for recruits, annual training refreshers, and payroll for officers on duty. This also includes equipment and paying those who are doing the training. Independent contractors can be responsible for the training and it can even be their own officers doing it. Depending one what they have for a budget there will be areas that will give. I will say de-escalation is an important one, but to be trained for that to a standard across the board is not something that can be done easily because each department is not the same with capabilities or funding and finding people to be trained to that level is not easy. Then you got people wanting to defund the police. So what message does that send to the city and police. You want them to be better trained, but you want to defund them to do the training you want them to have to be better. You can't have both.

Officers training also comes down to individual officers and in the moment. Not all of them will react the same and they are all trained. Accountability is key, but this is not just officers to look at. Look at you immediate political chain of command in the city. Mayor, police chiefs. They need to be held accountable as well and deserve just as much backlash as the cops to solve the issue which is failing. Leadership is not addressing the problem and deflecting blame elsewhere which is the wrong answer.

[joeldalton]

@Soteris The law of the land applied 100%. Everyone has a right to self-defense. Kyle Rittenhouse exercised his.

[Lliam]

The hypocrisy of people who think that only police are allowed to use force in preventing crime is astounding. They think police are allowed to use deadly force under some circumstances, but it's morally wrong for citizens to defend themselves or their neighbors.

Are upstanding citizens supposed to stand by and let terrorists push burning dumpsters into a gas station? Or let entire streets and businesses be destroyed by mindless, rampaging terrorists?

How does the life of a violent, destructive terrorist have value?

The USA is unique in that, "The People" are considered by law to be the standby militia when police are unavailable or when this country is being attacked. That was the primary purpose of the Second Amendment to our Constitution.

People who think violent aggression should be tolerated are not only hypocrites, they are quivering piles of jelly. They claim to be pacifist and concerned about human life, yet they campaign to prevent good people from defending it. They have empathy for the lives of rapists, muggers, armed robbers, looters and arsonists but not for their victims.

What good does it do for police to arrest a maniac after the fact, put them on trial and sentence them to prison when it would have been possible to stop them in the act? Only a worthless coward would allow such a thing to happen if they had the means to stop it.

[Lliam]

Section 197, subdivisions 1, 2 and 4, of the California Penal Code, provide that "Homicide is also justifiable when committed by any person in any of the following cases:

"1. When resisting any attempt to murder any person, or to commit a felony, or to do some great bodily injury upon any person; or,

"2. When committed in defense of habitation, property, or person, against one who manifestly intends or endeavors, by violence or surprise, to commit a felony...; or,

"4. When necessarily committed in attempting, by lawful ways and means, to apprehend any person for any felony committed, or in lawfully suppressing any riot, or in lawfully keeping and preserving the peace."

It's common sense. It's not just a civil (legal) right, but the unalienable right (and I'd say "duty") of any human being.

[lightbulb27]

well said.
Item 2 indicates could use force to save property. that differs from what I thought I heard from the judge in the case. I've had that question... if someone is stealing my car, can I shoot them? I doubt it... unless life threatened.

[Lliam]

@lightbulb27. If you caught someone red handed stealing your car, you'd have a right to point a gun at them in an attempt to arrest them. But in that case, shooting them would be unjustified unless you could proved that your life was threatened.

When committed in defense of habitation, property, or person, against one who manifestly intends or "endeavors, by VIOLENCE OR surprise, to commit a felony...; or,

When necessarily committed in attempting, BY LAWFUL WAYS AND MEANS, to APPREHEND any person for any felony committed, or in LAWFULLY suppressing any riot, or in lawfully keeping and preserving the peace.

[Soteris]

@ShadezMcgee What the rioters did before such as damaged various properties are entirely irrelevant to the question of Kyle Rittenhouse using self defense. Insisting on dragging that into this conversation is the same as attempting to insert bias towards the defense on emotional grounds.

What they damaged and how they should compensate for that etc.. is topic for another time and possibly another court case. It is important to note that what Kyle did had nothing to do with "holding these punks to account" either logically nor legally.

As for if its legal to attack someone or not? Obviously it is not, however I draw a very distinct line between physical violence and jumping to lethal force. Imagine if anytime someone shoved me I turned around and shot them in the head. That is technically "self defense" but it sure as hell is unnecessary and an escalation of violence on your part.

Fundamentally this is my biggest problem with Kyle and people like him. He escalates non-lethal situations into lethal situations, making the overall situation and outcome worse. In this case he does it in three major ways, first of all he armed himself. Anytime a situation develops and a gun is involved there is a very real risk of things going out of control where it never needed to such as what happened in this case. If Kyle was not armed I think there is a very low chance that he would be harmed in any major way and the outcome would have been a lot better and the people he killed could have been brought to court if they did anything wrong. The system would have worked as intended.

The second thing I criticize people like him for is starting a confrontation where there did not need to be one. This once again can turn a situation from bad (the riots) to worse (the riots + deaths). All he did was make it worse. It is stupid, it cost lives and puts people in danger. It is retarded, full stop.

[Soteris]

Third thing I criticize him for is just bad judgement. Even if he decides to be a stupid jackass and decide to defend some properties using his illegal gun that means that he has a lot of responsibility to ensure the risks he poses dont cause problems. This is true with pretty much anything be it having a gun, driving a car or whatever. If you are doing something dangerous you have to be aware and avoid putting yourself in a situation where you are going to put people in danger.

Had he been responsible he should have stayed somewhere he was safe and made sure he had backup if he was going anywhere. Instead he put himself into a vulnerable position where he needed (although I argue the actual need) to use lethal force to get out of. If you dont think this is important, just remember that you can manufacture this exact scenario and use it as an excuse to murder people while hiding behind the law.

As for who is to blame? Honestly dont know but it sounds like you dont know either. For example, the National Guard was right in not being called. The National Guard is a military unit, not a policing unit. They are not suitable for handling social unrest and using them will cause issues such as why the government is using the military against civilians and the fact that they are liable to fuck things up rather than help.

[Soteris]

The National Guard is best used during natural disasters, resisting enemy attacks or in critically dire situations such as the Capitol Hill Riot. This would not have been a good use of them.

As for Riot police, its actually not the same as normal police since the training required is very different. Some police pull double duty but its best handled by a separate force. In regards to defunding police, its actually fully compatible with improving training. The major argument for defunding police is both that they are wasting resources on stuff they dont need (such as buying old military equipment and vehicles not suitable for policework) and perhaps most importantly, they are in charge of things they should not be.

There are a lot of things police do that could be better handled by other professionals such as social workers. Giving those duties away would allow police to focus more of their time and resources onto actual police work and would mean you did not have to teach them a bunch of useless information about parking violations and give more time for higher quality education in policing.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton Thanks Lawyer Mc Stupidface. I definitely trust you to advice me on legal matters.

[Soteris]

@Lliam I am a big fan of letting professional handle dangerous work but the biggest argument for leaving it to police is that vigilantism is fucking retarded, subverts the causes more damages and problems than it solves.

As for the rest of your drivel I honestly dont care at this moment about your complete misinterpretation of law and the constitution. You are entirely delusional and your hysteria dont help the situation.

[Soteris]

@lightbulb27 No that is exactly one of the issues with that interpretation of self defense. You can use your car as an extension of your "property" and if anyone approaches it you can use the castle doctrine or "Self defense" to shoot people. Its a good example of why American self defense laws are stupid.

[Lliam]

@Soteris. Why are you still replying? What are you trying to prove? Whatever it is, you're failing. Your POV is moronic and your debating skills are sophomoric. Like a know-it-all adolescent, you keep running your mouth without realizing that you don't have a clue about reality. You seem to have little life experience or even education. Your twisted attempts at logic indicate that you've been subjected to some sort of social engineering program that turned you into a passive, compliant, fully emasculated vassal.

Fuck off back to Sweden, you useless, limp wrist.

[Soteris]

@Lliam Oh yeah, real mature answer there. Really hammers home how correct you are and your flawless debating skills.

Since you are such a fan of quoting laws and all that, lets talk about a different case. You see, the people in that riot was among other things chanting a name. Cameron lamb. So what happened to him and why do I feel it is important to bring it up in this case?

Why, a police came by and killed him at his own home within 9 seconds of Cameron lamb opening the door. Why? Because Cameron lamb had an argument with his girlfriend and someone called the police on him. Why is this relevant to this case? Because there was no reason for the police to do what he did. Cameron lamb was at home, not causing any problem for anyone and the police did not have any warrant for his arrest or to search his house.

The police put himself needlessly in a conflict with Cameron lamb and used that conflict to kill him. Just like how Kyle Rittenhouse pointlessly obtained an illegal firearm and decided he wanted to play hero. The police lost that court case a few days ago. The Judge made a big deal of the 4th amendment, I am sure you know it by heart as a pure blooded and whatnot American. The Judge made the argument that the police dont have an automatic right to stick their nose into other peoples business. Likewise I argue that Kyle Rittenhouse dont have an automatic right to start this whole shitshow by arming himself and getting involved in something dangerous he has nothing to do with nor is he qualified for.

[Ryfyle]

@Soteris So basically you're asshurt that you can't have state sponsored terrorism anymore.

[Ryfyle]

"The police put himself needlessly in a conflict with Cameron lamb and used that conflict to kill him. Just like how Kyle Rittenhouse pointlessly obtained an illegal firearm and decided he wanted to play hero"
That's the job of the police though. Rosenbaum didn't need to push a burning dumpster into a gas station, but hey, Terrorists gotta terror.
Swedes are the dumbest bootlicking fucks to ever exist.

[Soteris]

@Ryfyle That is rich coming from a nation who has a hobby of sponsoring terrorists around the world. Not sure how that applies to anything I have been talking about however. You right wing people makes the strangest of leaps in logic.

[Ryfyle]

@Soteris Aren't you late for your daily gangrape by 3rd world freeloaders, Swede? You just compared Cops doing their jobs to the Kenosha Events. Shit like this is why your Euro Zone Bug and Soy Rations are getting reduced.

[joeldalton]

@Soteris you should trust me over the retarded toddler propaganda you call your world view.

[Soteris]

@Ryfyle I compared the cops going out of there way to do something unnecessary to Kyle Rittenhouse doing the same thing and both ending up killing people who did not need to die.

Also once again I am here to point out that killing people gets in the way of justice since that can only be achieved through a court of law.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton Ill pass.

[Ryfyle]

@Soteris The Cops were doing their Jobs. Rittenhouse put out a dumpster fire and a manlet boyfucker got pissed and lunged at him and tried to grab a gun moments before the manlet Boyfucker told him "he would kill him if he found him alone". Euros need to fuck off and not have an Opinion on American Affairs, it's far too complicated for them.

[ShadezMcgee]

@Soteris "What the rioters did before such as damaged various properties are entirely irrelevant to the question of Kyle Rittenhouse using self defense. Insisting on dragging that into this conversation is the same as attempting to insert bias towards the defense on emotional grounds."

I will disagree with that again. It has very much every bit of relevancy to this argument because that is why Kyle was there that night. Leading up to Kenosha these riots were taking place all across the states. Wisconsin was about to become one of these states the minute Blake's incident happened. Kyle Rittenhouse has family here in Wisconsin and worked up here as well. Saying he had no right to be here and be a part of being able to defend property his family and friends of his own is wrong as well. You are not the only one who thinks he made a stupid decision by getting involved that night, but I personally believe anyone who says he had no right to be there are speaking from a personal view because they themselves would not be in that position or put themselves in that situation to start. Wisconsin authorities were restricted because of the incident and could not intervene as an in place deterrent, and you are wrong on the Guard as well. The Guard is a military STATE entity that is separate from federal government use and other military units like Active/Reserve US Army, USMC, USN, USAF and USCG and can be deployed in terms of natural disaster, military use AND civil unrest. They can do that and it has happened before. It is in Army Doctrine.

[ShadezMcgee]

Now your whole gripe about what level of force for self-defense from physical to lethal is all dependent on people and the situation at hand. Yes, we can say if you get shoved and then shooting someone in the face as retaliation is an extreme on that one that can count, however, the issue with this is that physical confrontation is never certain where it can end if the same level of retaliation is met. If you were to punch me in the face, I will definitely punch you back and then some. Let's take it a step further. What's to stop me from kicking you in the face and stomping you in the face if I overpower you and get to the ground? Who will intervene to help you? What's to stop me from beating you to death right there? Cops? You? A bystander that decides to intervene and not watch or record something on phone? There is never a guarantee that the confrontation will end well if the same playing field is had. There is no such thing as a fair fight. In that moment you will do what you can to survive.

Your criticisms of Kyle are your personal grievances like I stated earlier. Millions of others don't see it like you do. I am one of them, but I will address each of your criticisms here.

1.) He escalates non-lethal situations into lethal situations, making the overall situation and outcome worse. In this case he does it in three major ways, first of all he armed himself.

Answer: Open carry is legal in the state of Wisconsin when it comes to guns. He was not the only one that did that that night. Next, let me ask you of arming himself. Is it only considered arming himself if he uses a gun? Or does it count if he has something like an axe, a knife, a baseball bat?

[ShadezMcgee]

2.) The second thing I criticize people like him for is starting a confrontation where there did not need to be one. This once again can turn a situation from bad (the riots) to worse (the riots + deaths). All he did was make it worse. It is stupid, it cost lives and puts people in danger. It is retarded, full stop.

A: Confrontation will be had if you address an issue or attempt to diffuse it. Explain to me how he should have done that.

3.) Third thing I criticize him for is just bad judgement. Even if he decides to be a stupid jackass and decide to defend some properties using his illegal gun that means that he has a lot of responsibility to ensure the risks he poses dont cause problems. This is true with pretty much anything be it having a gun, driving a car or whatever. If you are doing something dangerous you have to be aware and avoid putting yourself in a situation where you are going to put people in danger.

Answer: Again, that is your personal belief it was bad judgment he was there that night and "not responsible" by "not staying home" you as eloquently put it. I am one of the many that don't see it that way. He got involved, he chose to get involved which took balls and a lot of personal accountability to potentially be in a very violent and dangerous environment. I feel you are overlooking the fact that even though Kyle was armed, he exercised immense restraint the I have heard fellow soldiers and many gun owners say was akin to an experienced veteran. He never endangered anybody until he used the rifle to defend himself after running away and getting attacked... by three men. When you shoot a gun, you need to know what is beyond your target and being in a populated area that night like it was could have been bad, but it wouldn't have been any different if it was a cop or another civilian in Kyle's spot instead. A gun was used and bullets found the correct threats in that moment.

[ShadezMcgee]

I already told you who was to blame, and you dismissed it by saying I didn't. Bet money that if Governor Evers and the mayor of Kenosha emplaced the proper deterrents after Blake's shooting and seeing what was happening around the country with riots that stemmed from Floyd, Taylor and Blake's incidents, it was a no brainer that would happen. These two did not act. They restricted the power the cops had to handle the situation and they did not use the National Guard as a back up for the cops as well. Political leaders let a city burn and could have prevented that and minimized damage had they not let mainstream media influence their decisions.

They failed to make that decision. They are accountable. Had they allowed the police to do what was necessary, Kyle's incident would have never happened. They were not held accountable for those mistakes and it is something that we see across our country on a daily basis. Our political leaders have a notorious track record for never being held accountable for their fuck ups, and this is another one on that list.

[ShadezMcgee]

@Soteris the last bit I will counter to your response about police training. Yes, funding goes to things they don't need like old military equipment, I agree with that and there is a video here that I would urge you to look at through its entirety and NOT skim because it comes down to police spending and defunding talking points. It can also give you insight to people who argue self-defense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceoZN9At74s&t=257s

However, I want to ask why the hell you think social workers are the answer for certain situations more than police. Which of these instances or crimes do you believe social workers are better than police? I am genuinely curious because that sounds like horrible plan.

[lightbulb27]

@ShadezMcgee @Soteris there's a valid point here. What kyle did (protect an area against some who were destroying the town) took guts a lot of us haven't had. Police policy is "disengagement" all over the country since girlfriend... police cannot chase a stolen motorcycle. In Columbus ohio, a house partiers on campus destroyed cars for no good reason, as police watched and the owners watched. police could not engage unless life was threatened. People just jump in cars and steal them now, trash them... get away with it. This approach is what Kyle and others stood against. The "minimize the impact to life and social the cost" approach works to some extent as long as insurance pays and people can tolerate it. But we aren't counting the disruption to peoples lives due to the mahem. One poor lady near me lost all 4 wheels (not tires) on her car... very stressful and disruptive to life... can't even tow it. These are extends of bad behavior. Defending life and property... I'm for it, while listening to the concerns of those who protest, for opportunities for change.

[jshm2]

Rittenhouse is the monster. Who the fuck did the 17 year old shithead think he was? Batman? Rambo?

He caused a lot of bother and resolved exactly zero issues that day.

[DCooper]

Two of those 'issues' got 'resolved'... unfortunately the 3rd one survived lol

[ShadezMcgee]

Do you have any personal beliefs and reasons as to why he is a monster or is this stemming from what mainstream media has perpetuated to push people to believe a specific thing?

Kyle caused nowhere near the bother that actual rioters did when razing Kenosha to the ground. He exercised immense restraint up until the incident.

You are coming across as belligerent.

[Lliam]

@DCooper, he joined people to clean graffiti off walls. He put out a dumpster fire. And he took some bad trash out of the gene pool, even though that was never his original intention at all.

As a result of media's reaction to the incident, a light was shined on the fucked up mayor, city administration and DA's office. And public reaction helped to make it clear which people in the country are upstanding citizens and which support terrorism.

Jumping in at one's own peril to stop a rape or mugging, or running into a burning building to save people is what a worthwhile human would do. It's not an attempt to be Batman or Rambo. But spineless cowards and people who lack decency and compassion wouldn't understand that.

[DCooper]

@ShadezMcgee One might even say he was "largely peaceful" :popcorn:

[Lliam]

Sorry, my last comment was supposed to be addressed to jshm2.

[Ryfyle]

Fantastic grounds for a mistrial.

[Juxtapose]

That 17 year old is a HERO!