Who resonated and how with nietzsche's quote "He who fights with monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze?

Question

"He who fights with monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you,"

abc3643 · Accepted Answer

This is the full quote in original German: Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein. Various translations: He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby becomes a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee. [tr. Zimmern (1906)] Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you. [tr. Kaufmann (1966)] Google AI discusses it (I prompted with the version you used in your question): That famous quote, " Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you" , is by German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche, from his book Beyond Good and Evil (1886), warning that battling evil can corrupt you, making you adopt the enemy's tactics, or that confronting darkness can reveal your own inner darkness. It's a caution about losing your humanity, integrity, and sense of self while fighting against perceived evils or falsehoods, lest you become like what you despise.  Meaning and Interpretation: The Danger of Immersion:  
 It suggests that deep engagement with evil (the "monsters") can transform you, as you must use similar methods or embrace similar philosophies to fight them.  Internal Reflection:  
 Gazing into the "abyss" (darkness, chaos, nihilism) reflects your own potential for such darkness, implying self-examination is crucial.  Warning Against Nihilism:  
 Nietzsche, who battled traditional morality, meant this as a warning against falling into nihilism or losing meaning while fighting life-denying forces... Context of Self-Overcoming:  
 In Nietzsche's view, it's a call to confront inner demons and societal falsehoods without becoming monstrous, striving for self-mastery, not mere opposition... 
   
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   I don't know if "resonated" is the right word, but I do know of two movie scenes which essentially invoke the ideas from this quote. ================= The first is from the 1987 Oliver Stone film "Wall Street". Early in this clip, Lou (Hal Holbrook) uses the abyss quote in preparing Bud (Charlie Sheen) just before Bud is about to be arrested and sent to prison for insider trading. Here's a short version with just that talk between Bud and Lou: Here's how Google's AI explains it... That profound quote,  "Man looks in the abyss, there's nothing staring back at him. At that moment, man finds his character. And that is what keeps him out of the abyss",  comes from the movie Wall Street (1987), delivered by the character Lou Mannheim (played by Hal Holbrook) to Bud Fox, emphasizing finding inner strength when facing emptiness or temptation, contrasting with Nietzsche's idea of the abyss staring back. It's a moment where a person chooses their own moral compass rather than being consumed by the void or corruption.  ... Context in the Film: Lou Mannheim, a veteran, ethical stockbroker, imparts this wisdom to the younger, morally flexible Bud Fox. It's about facing the stark reality of emptiness or potential evil (the "abyss") and choosing to build your own values (character) to avoid becoming corrupted by it.  ... Connection to Nietzsche: This quote offers a counterpoint to Friedrich Nietzsche's famous line, "If you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you". While Nietzsche warns that prolonged engagement with darkness can corrupt you, the Wall Street quote suggests that facing that darkness and finding nothing there allows you to define yourself positively, preventing descent.  ================= The other comes from the 1964's Sidney Lumet film "Fail Safe". This scene involves Professor Groeteschele (Walter Matthau), a civilian advisor who is a military hawk advocating launching a nuclear attack against the Soviet Union in the wake of an impending accidental attack by a US bomber group on its way to destroy Moscow. The other man is USAF General Black (Dan O'Herlihy) who is also a close friend of The President (Henry Fonda). Prof. Groeteschele: Excuse me. Every minute we wait works against us. Now, Mr. Secretary, now is when we must send in a first strike. Gen. Stark: We don't go in for sneak attacks. We had that done to us at Pearl Harbor. Prof. Groeteschele: And the Japanese were right to do it. From their point of view, we were their mortal enemy. As long as we existed, we were a deadly threat to them. Their only mistake was that they failed to finish us at the start, and they paid for that mistake at Hiroshima. Gen. Stark: You're talking about a different kind of war. Prof. Groeteschele: Exactly. This time, *we* can finish what *we* start. And if we act now, right now, our casualties will be minimal. Brigadier General Warren A. Black: You know what you're saying? Prof. Groeteschele: Do you believe that Communism is not our mortal enemy? Brigadier General Warren A. Black: You're justifying murder. Prof. Groeteschele: Yes, to keep from being murdered. Brigadier General Warren A. Black: In the name of what? To preserve what? Even if we do survive, what are we? Better than what we say they are? What gives us the right to live, then? What makes us worth surviving, Groeteschele? That we are ruthless enough to strike first? Prof. Groeteschele: Yes! Those who can survive are the only ones worth surviving. Brigadier General Warren A. Black: Fighting for your life isn't the same as murder. Prof. Groeteschele: Where do you draw the line once you know what the enemy is? How long would the Nazis have kept it up, General, if every Jew they came after had met them with a gun in his hand? But I learned from them, General Black. Oh, I learned. Brigadier General Warren A. Black:  You learned too well, Professor. You learned so well that now there's no difference between you and what you want to kill. As explained by Google AI about the quote I boldfaced: This line is spoken by General Warren Black (played by Dan O'Herlihy) to Professor Groeteschele (played by Walter Matthau) in the 1964 film Fail Safe.  The dialogue serves as a direct cinematic application of Friedrich Nietzsche's famous aphorism from Beyond Good and Evil: "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster".  Context of the Quote The Scenario: After a technical failure sends U. S. bombers to destroy Moscow, Professor Groeteschele argues for a full-scale first strike, claiming that "those who can survive are the only ones worth surviving". The Conflict: General Black accuses the Professor of justifying cold-blooded murder. When Groeteschele claims he "learned" his ruthless logic from the Nazis, Black delivers the line: "You learned too well, Professor. You learned so well that now there's no difference between you and what you want to kill".  Philosophical Parallel Nietzsche’s original text (Aphorism 146) warns that prolonged exposure to "the abyss" or obsessive combat against an enemy can corrupt a person's soul until they mirror the very evil they oppose. In the film, Groeteschele represents this transformation; his singular focus on defeating Communism leads him to adopt the same total disregard for human life that he supposedly despises.  ================= So, I don't know how "resonated" applies here. Nothing "resonated" with me. But, having seen both of these movies several times each, I understood that the quote you cited applied in these scenes and understood what these meant before I ever knew about Nietzsche including the quote. I had a feeling Lou in Wall Street was quoting somebody...

rebelsunshine · Accepted Answer

I remind myself of this quote every time I think about the genocide that Israeli Jews are committing against the Palestinians, and the fact America still has a Zionist Occupied Government in which no one from either the Left or the Right has been able to end the 3 billion of taxpayers' money that props up a state that has contravened international law since 1967 without consequence. A state for whose interests America involved itself in after American imperialism and our cloying support for Israel drew the ire of an Arab terrorist who was a Salafist fanatic and had the means to conduct a successful attack on America on 9/11.

And rather than direct the ire of the American public on the virus that created the cancer of radical Islamic terror, the American public was led into two wars that cost America not only the human lives of everyday Americans but also its standing in the international community.

I remind myself that even Zionist Israeli Jews are still human, despite the horrendous terror they have inflicted on their neighbors and despite the fact any populist politician who openly opposes their influence and control will receive the Marjorie Taylor Greene treatment. Even without the orange narcissist whom the neocon John Bolton was actually correct about -- as far as his not caring about policy but rather only about his own ego -- as the elected chief executive for the American people.

Ethnic identity politics has become passe in political discourse. I remind myself not to direct too much ire at the opportunistic virus controlling America, so America doesn't follow the course Germany took between 1941-1945.

FreyaRed · Accepted Answer

"[Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein.]"

In German "mit kaempfen" [fighting with] can have the meaning against or together with. So do you fight with monsters or against monsters? It's about being beyond good and evil and using monster to kill other monsters is justified.

This quote with reading entire context of "Beyond Good and Evil" doesn't make a sense alone.

Simslover92 · Accepted Answer

I think we all have fought with becoming our enemy at one point or another. I know I have. So it does resonate with me a lot. There was a time I wasn't a very good person because I was becoming the very thing I was fighting against. Now I aim to never go back to that place because it's dark and lonely.

lightbulb27 · Answer

wow yes, it's hard to take the high ground in the face of death and be good to those that were bad to you. the knowledge of good and evil...

Maybe_Maybe_not · Answer

I was a teen when I first heard of this quote. I visualized a bottomless black lake down below and me, on some rocky cliff, looking at it. It made me feel lonely, extremely lonely. I was impressed, it was a new and fresh idea. I instantly thought Nietzsche was a cool guy, a revolutionary, a rock star lol. It took me time to get out of the wow effect, time to realize what to do with this quote. What it says about us, people, human condition and much later, what it says about me, because I initially believed I was different, clever enough to avoid pitfalls. Well, I was not, I was just young.

Chazmatazz269 · Answer

At about 42 seconds, a character who is more or less a soldier begins a short monologue about his place in a utopia. More to the point, he talks about not having a place in a utopian society.
The military doesn’t generally recruit for intelligence, so this is an idealistic portrayal at the least. However, any soldier who is smarter than a halfwit should eventually come to the understanding that once they’ve gone to war, there is no place for them in a civilized society. War makes monsters of men. There’s no amount of “care” that can be taken to avoid it. Where there is war, there will be monsters. It cannot be otherwise. Know that any society that wills conflict has no use for those that they send into it, save another conflict if they survive. It’s those in power creating THEIR ideal world, at the expense of everyone else.

MikeMcMansion · Answer

I’ve survived attacks on my life against overwhelming odds. I lost my kids to their crazy mom and a corrupt family court. I grew up fighting my peers in self-defense.
Joined the infantry, got broke up with while I was gone, caught and retained some shrapnel. Did stupid shit I shouldn’t have done and more stupid shit to cope and escape my problems developing addictions two being alcohol and opiates.

Though I did develop some healthy hobbies they came at an unacceptable financial cost to my family’s business.

Now I wrestle my own demons at night worried about many things like whose heart I might break next by making more stupid decisions. I wanted to be the hero to the people in my life but that abyss will catch your gaze and its hard to look away. If your not praying for God to help you you’ll become part of it.

ohsheeT · Answer

You are who you hang with if your always fighting something someone well you need to t a ke a good look at your self.. maybe you are the monster and you are out of control and people have to def themselves

Most people who fight with others it's because they have no control over there mouths or themselves

NathanDavis · Answer

I read that when I was twelve years old... probably the most interesting first day of school... lol

Nikki1989 · Answer

Friedrich Nietzsche’s aphorism from Beyond Good and Evil is one of his most culturally pervasive warnings. All people should study his works.

Ironco · Answer

I've been fighting and struggling with monsters and demons my whole life. I've been staring into the abyss for decades.

I'm still me for the most part, didn't turn into the monster yet, or I was always one.

On a side note, I do play St. Nick every Christmas so there is that.

DishLady · Answer

A lot of guys become the monsters/deamons they fight by 5-10%. You have to embrace the daemon to fight it... and then some folks just get stuck there.

exitseven · Answer

Sometimes one has to be a monster to fight a monster. It is a slippery slope.

AngryCarl2 · Answer

Someone has to be a monster if that's what it takes to save the village.

Paige90 · Answer

I don't understand the question

WhitneySnow · Answer

It reminds me a lot of Gothic literature

Anonymous · Answer

I think Nietzsche had a very good point.

Who resonated and how with nietzsche's quote "He who fights with monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze?

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