Why don’t we just move the age of adulthood to 21?

[Stoner710]

So one of the suggestions for gun control is raising the age to be able to by a rifle to 21. I’m not necessarily against the proposal. But I’m confused on why you should be able to to be drafted in the army or have the ability to vote or even go to jail for life if your not able to smoke drink or buy a gun. Adulthood is adulthood either your a responsible adult at 18 and everything that comes with being an adult come with it the ability to smoke drink vote join the military or go to prison for life and be treated as an adult at 18 or we could do all that at 21 yes this means you have 3 extra years of being a kid after you graduate high school

[nightdrot]

Actually, it used to be 21 and was lowered to 18 because of the eligibility of the 18 year olds to be drafted. So, in that sense, we've been there before and are where we are because of military service.

That said, as the population is aging and the workforce is shrinking relative to population, an enormous drain is being placed on the economy. Not only are the number of potential military recruits declining, but the workforce, and therefore the tax base, is shrinking.

All this putting enormous pressure on the Federal budget and the economy. For example, SS has $22 trillion in unfunded liabilities. Medicare has $46 trillion in unfunded liabilities. This, while the size of the whole economy is only $23 trillion - and he US economy is the largest on Earth.

Suffice to say, the ramping up of debt - the national debt now exceeds GDP - and the shrinking of the workforce would not be helped by raising the age of majority to 21. It would effectively be taking a segment of the population out of the workforce and it would also put enormous burdens on the young in terms of income. (Recall that the wealthiest demographic is the 65 and older set, the poorest 18 to 25.)

This also would throw into question the validity of legal contracts signed by 18 to 20 years olds after the age was raised to 21. Untangling that legal mess would be a massive - and time consuming - undertaking in the courts.

Put simply, while having the age of adulthood at 21 would make for some legal conveniences, overall the effect would be detrimental. That bell has been rung and it cannot be "un-rung" without significant economic, social and legal consequences.

[Stoner710]

While I completely agree with what you are saying. I still don’t get how one can make those types of life altering decisions without the same ability to light up at cigarette drink a beer or on a gun. An adult is an adult so it sounds like what you were arguing for is the age of 18 which is fine and I think it should be in 18 myself but unless we’re going to lower the age of drinking owning a gun and smoking which is far less wave altering decisions than taking a loan or join the military or voting or going into massive amounts of debt on these decisions supposed to be left in the hands of adults 18 years adulthood then sure let them do what they please if the age of adulthood is 21 and a 21 let them do what they please but arbitrary lies based off of age doesn’t help anything

[nightdrot]

Well, a couple of point. First, there is nothing, as a legal matter, that is magical about 18 or 21. You cannot collect your Social Security benefits until you are 65. The age of majority basically conveys the right to vote and no other benefits. The rest is optional - literally.

Secondly, you need to make a distinction between being an adult and being legally recognized as an adult. Suffice to say, there are more people who are legal adults than who are actually adults.

In an ideal world. then, you would not grant "legal adulthood" status until a whole raft of criterial - psychological, sociological, etc., - were met. Needless to say that there is no practical method for doing so and this "adulthood," as a legal matter, is defined by a minimalist criteria and exceptions are made as necessary.

[Stoner710]

This is true we are of course talking about legally recognized age, and weather or not society deems executable responsible to own a gun drink vote join the military etc. you can’t be half an adult. If you’re too young to make a decision to have a beer or a cigarette or buy a firearm shouldn’t you be considered too young to vote or join the military? Not to mention the rest of the responsibilities of being an adult

[nightdrot]

As a practical matter I don't disagree. However, again, what the legal age of adulthood is about is NOT whether you are "half an adult" or other such. Rather it is about when you are old enough to vote.

That's it. The rest society defines - and not always consistently, as you suggest - according to circumstance.

Indeed, it is often decided - directly or indirectly - by who votes. The low voter turnout of people in the 18 to 21 year old demographic has its own implications. The irony being that if that demographic turned out in larger numbers, they may be able to drink at age 18 - adding in that the drinking age is decided at the state and local, not Federal, levels - buy guns and who knows what else.

As it is, the society, directly and indirectly, decides these questions circumstantially and one hopes prudentially on a case by case basis. The decision residing, directly or derivatively, by who votes and who and what they vote for.

The error in your argument is that you presume that "adulthood" is being defined not as a legal matter, but in effect as a psychological matter and matter of maturity. We may well wish that it was, but it has never been and likely never will be.

[Stoner710]

I don’t disagree with the idea of psychologically someone is an adult or not unfortunately we can’t determine the psychological level of somebody who buys a beer or cigarettes which is why we need the arbitrary number.

I will say I believe and many other would agree with me, that if your old enough to make a life altering decision like join the military or voting or gender transition which affects people’s live far more important decision then whether or not you go buy a beer or a pack of cigarettes or even an AR-15. So if we as a society are going to say you have to be 21 to buy beer or cigarettes which is far less important decisions to make. So why allow 18 year olds to vote gender transition or vote without being able to have a beer. Either buy law it’s 21 or 18 heck most adults my age are really reaching maturity between 26-28 so maybe even go to the extreme of raising the legal age of adult hood to 26.

[nightdrot]

On your point, some people join the military who have no business joining the military. (Presumably the military weeds them out, but there are no assurances.) Some people have children when they are children themselves.

To repeat, there is simply no way to write a legal standard to anticipate every contingency. So the legal age of adulthood is set - mostly to designate the point at which citizens can vote - and then exceptions are made as circumstance, the data and the society deem necessary.

By the way, by your logic, ought we not block teens from getting a driver's license at age 16? Alternatively, should we lower the legal age of adulthood to 16? Ultimately it gets you into an infinite regress.

In any case, raising or lowering the age of adulthood is not on the docket, so the point is academic. It is simply a fact of life that "ought" and "is" are often two different things.

Just as an aside, I would favor raising the legal age back to 21, but the practical and political difficulties of such a move renders that moot. As the old saying goes, "there is no way to un-ring the bell."

[Kaneki05]

The country gap becomes a bit of a difference here. But nah, I agree with adult been younger than later. As the proof of making stuff seem adult just makes underage want to do it more. Not saying we should get rid of a limit. Just it for sure shouldn't be raised. And as for guns that's just whole other thing which as from Uk you won't appreciate my answer to so I don't need to say it. But as for the rest of my point it still stands no matter the country.

[Stoner710]

Yea Brit’s don’t understand the gun issue when I’m the United States. Honestly the only Europeans I’ve talked to who understand the gun issue in the United States is ironically Russians.

I agree with you that 18 would be better, The democrats (basically the equivalent of the labor party except more fair left). Want to raise the age of owning a gun to 21. 12/20/12019 they raised the age to by tobacco products at 21. Yet they argue that 18 year olds are mature enough to
1 vote
2 join the military
3 transition themselves to make them look like the opposite sex.
Vs
1 drink
2 smoke
3 buy a gun

Voting joining the military and transitioning yourself are far far greater life altering Decisions that make more of an impact on your life then drinking smoking or buying a firearm. So what I’m saying is if your old enough to make important decisions at 18 like voting transitioning yourself or join the military your old enough to drink smoke and buy a gun. If you have to be 21 to drink smoke buy a gun you should have to be 21 to join the military transition or vote you can’t be half an adult

[Kaneki05]

Yeah our country is now speaking of making cigs 21 like your country. I am pretty far left but still a lot of disagreements to be had with them and that's for one I disagree with. I do also agree it's hypocritical everything should just be under one age really.
Keeps it simple. So if everything was to move to 21 at least that would be all under 1 but it would be too high in age. And obviously people under that age will do such things. Leading to just more problems.
Education along with a younger limit is what I agree with because education should teach one how to be sensible with stuff. Rather than shy people away from things for them to do it illegally anyway but much worse because they've not be taught about it. Which is still a left ideology (Since I know many right wingers who don't agree with stuff told in school cause they believe it will hurt there kids somehow) so I don't know why there is this whole push from the other lefts to make it older.
It's just a mess and hypocritical. Oh yeah you can smoke here at 16 but not buy until 18? How does that work?
But now they will move that to 21? So you can smoke at 16 but not buy until 21? Huh lol.

[LazerBean]

Do agree that it's hypocritical to have two different numbers that we pick and choose to be considered "adult" for different things. But at the same time I would not want a 20-year-old person getting prosecuted as a child and getting a small slap on the wrist for doing something they are well old enough to understand they should not be doing. Even now many 17 and 18 year olds prosecuted as children for things like murder and rape, which is absurd to me. I would much rather we decide that the age is just straight 18 and start buckling down on crime.

[Stoner710]

That is fair I still don’t see why you were able to go overseas and get killed and vote about being able to smoke a cigarette or drink a beer do you want to. I don’t disagree with what you said here

[hellomellow7]

I agree. Raising the age to get guns doesn't really solve the issue either.. because I’m pretty sure the mental disorders at 18 are going to be same if not worse when turning 21. And if they change “adulthood” to 21.. then they’re cruel bringing kids to fight wars. After all they decided they weren’t adults.. but hey! They get to shoot guns in the military!! Age discrimination.. oh you can’t have a gun to defend your life.. but here we’ll give you one if you go into the military and get killed for us.

[Anonymous]

I actually agree. Don't draft anyone from 18-21 because they would have access to guns. But also the main reason this won't happen is they would have to not allow 18-21 years old's to vote. The democrat party is dependent on voting blocks, especially fresh out of high school and just into college aged adults.

[Stoner710]

This is true I was turning 18 in 2012 and so I vote for Obama by 2016 I vote for Trump by 2020 I knew what I was doing and voted for Trump again.

[Blackcosmo]

I agree and disagree at the same time. Yes because some 18 year olds can still be incredibly irresponsible and a few more years would do good. No because then they wouldn't get charged as an adult for crimes which would be ridiculous as they're old enough to know what's right and wrong to some extent. It's a hard choice.

[Stoner710]

Only crime I say should be charged as an adult is first degree murder. But that’s it

[josephinelcajon]

I fully agree. In the dark ages it was 13 for several reasons but mostly life expectancy. It has slowly been raised but not across the board and used very discriminately! You can go to war but not drink. You can be called a child yet be given a adult sentence to jail or worse death. Todays youth under 18 do not have the life experience of the past. I am fully for 21 for everything!

[StevieNix]

You are exactly correct. Joey is pushing for a war with Russia, and you sure as fuck know he's not going over to fight in it. It will be kids getting their limbs blown off.

[Anonymous]

The age of 18 to vote is written into the constitution as the 26th amemdment, so congress can't do anything about that, otherwise I think it would be a fine idea. https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-26/#:~:text=The%20right%20of%20citizens%20of,State%20on%20account%20of%20age.

[Stoner710]

The age to drink is 21 made by the 21st amendment. So if you think about it the constitution itself is in conflict with it’s self on what age is someone an adult.

Voting is a far greater decision then the decision to buy a pack of cigarettes or a six pack of beer or a bottle of vodka or even an AR15 or shotgun some sort of rifle. Make the legal adult age to 21 which comes with everything your allowed to be an adult. Voting drinking smokes joining the military etc.

I bring up this question because democratic are trying to convince us that people aren’t old enough to own a gun at 18 but we can trans young children or vote or join the military which could get you killed without smoking or drinking or buying a rifle or a shot gun. Basically making 18-20 year old half adults

[Opinion Owner]

I actually don't see anything about the drinking age being 21 in the 21st amendment. constitution.congress.gov/.../ Unless you have another source on that. Look I'm not disagreeing with you the 21 should be the age for adulthood, but if congress passes a law such as raising the age to 18 for adulthood it violates a constitutional ammendment, it will easily be invalidated by a federal court. Otherwise, I'm all for it.

[Opinion Owner]

*raising the age to 21*

[Stoner710]

That’s fair I am a constitutional originalist (Clarence Thomas is my favorite justice). There is one constitutional amendment that we ignore the 18th amendment of course I would make a couple constitutional amendments like term limits for senate and house and no bills longer then 100 pages. Either way the issue I’m more pointing out here is why an 18 year old vote but not be able to buy a gun while at the same time go over seas with a guy and potentially die.

I don’t think we are disagreeing here it’s just more on how we should interpret law

[Lyndsielee666]

If a 15 year old murders someone would they still be eligible to be tried as an adult if the age got pushed to 21? 🤔

[StevieNix]

You missed the point of the question.

[Lyndsielee666]

@StevieNix I know what he asked bud

[StevieNix]

Pick an age and stick with it, Bud.

[Lyndsielee666]

@StevieNix angry for what Lmfao

[StevieNix]

Name the age, bud.

[Anonymous]

I like how we’re raising the age to buy a firearm to defend yourself but a five year old can decide if they want to change their gender.

[Stoner710]

I’m Rumpelstilts the troll under a bridge asking this question

[Andres77]

Fine, move trans education and sex changes to the same age please.

[Stoner710]

Works for me, one can’t be half an adult. Either one is an adult at 18 and can vote drink smoke join the military go to prison to life, (one exception I don’t make is first degree murder but that’s the one exception) even trans your body your either fully an adult at 18 or 21

[joeldalton]

Because it’s stupid to move the age of adulthood. Christ what is wrong with people’s brains?

[Anonymous]

Might as well. Most young adults aren't very responsible till midway in their 20's anyhow.

[fireforeffect]

We should. The Human brain does not fully mature until 25.

[noohair]

Stop smoking for a year to clear out your brain.

[Kingofkings1992]

Not a bad idea. 18 is a child anyway.

[maximumpower]

loaded question.

[Stoner710]

How so? What is the definition of an adult?