Did we over estimate Russias military strength?

[Wonderwhat]

Can Ukraine do the impossible and defeat Goliath?

[ChrisMaster69]

It’s not their military strength it’s their application and management of it.

the Russians still follow their Tsarist, Civil War, WW2 etc method of control, which is basically do not trust the common soldiers and give them minimal training.

The backbone in most western armies has always been its non commissioned officers, the Corporals, Sergeants, Colour Sergeants, Warrant Officers etc.

With the Russians it’s pretty much Colonel level, hence the numbers of senior officers being killed.

What that means is they are fairly inept at small unit tactics.

They rely on a senior person, trained and politically connected to tell them the battle plan for the next x hours and days.

There is very very limited room for manoeuvre, it’s do that or get arrested.

With Ukraine who were trained by NATO from 2012 in how western countries fight wars, it is telling and small unit tactics work so much better in the conflict they are seeing.

Sergeants etc can change initial briefings to what works on the ground at that time and place.

A lot of work went in to tank killing units, reconnaissance patrols, basically how the UK has fought wars for years.

it also can be seen how Wagner Group and Chechens manage better than the Russians own military.

Also the fake news on ability of its weapons and numbers of them, it used to be a fear of Russian Guards Shock Armies driving through Fulda Gap, which is in part why Brimstone was developed as a mass armour killing missile.

It’s the application of power and skills that often win wars and not numbers, unless those numbers are vast such as Russia WW2, when they lost millions defeating Germany.

[Wonderwhat]

Wow you're very well read.

[ChrisMaster69]

@wonderwhat not as such I spent a few years in the RAF and have friends involved in stuff

[Dargil]

Yes, we did.
Russia is not the Soviet Union. Their equipment is antiquated. Their troops are poorly trained and their leadership is weak and indecisive.

If they invaded Europe, they would crumble like Saddam did in Desert Storm. They brag about their nukes and having hypersonic delivery. But we just don't talk about what we have. We could vaporize Moscow in a day.

[CALIGVLA]

Conservatives are a mental case. 😂

[Kiran_Yagami]

Yes, but we're also overestimating our own military strength. Every branch of the military is failing in their recruitment quotas by a wide margin, and Biden now wants to fire 40,000 national guardsmen because they won't get vaccinated. The woke campaigning by the top military brass is leading to less people joining. The model we currently have is unsustainable. It has been statistically proven that draftees are far less competent and far less effective in combat than professional soldiers that have already been in service for years, so don't count on the draft to save you. Meanwhile, China has the largest military ever assembled in history and continues to increase their military spending by almost 6% a year.

[CALIGVLA]

The Russian army is the strongest European army and this is not up for discussion. Overall, it has the best technology, the best equipment, good number of troops, their troops are disciplined and have a patriotic fervor. Period.

On the other hand, their command structure is sclerotic, ineffective and unable to coordinate all its forces properly, which leads to fatal mistakes and unnecessary losses.

Whatever is the Russian army's issue it's going to be fixed by experience, though. It's impossible for Ukraine to defeat Russia without nukes and soon the Russian army will be the world's only capable army with acquired experience in high intensity warfare these days.

[andreasderjuengere]

In 1990 Germany was re-united. Having relatives in the area of evil, I now had opportunity to see first hand what ''the Russians'' had left behind; military barracks, training grounds and such.
It was a filthy, polluted and deteriorated mess.
My thought back then: ''And THESE are the guys we have been made scared of during all these years?''
Fun fact: For a few weeks Germany was the only NATO member having MIG's in their air force :) - these are not to be under-estimated, I heard from pilots.

Military ''strength'' and the magnitude of the ''boom'' you can produce isn't all. I'd say that what we see in Ukraine right now isn't the full potential. But see what this war does to OUR oil prices, gas (as in: gas) supplies and food production.
No reason to be scared - but to be wary.

In all this havoc ''we'' also better keep an eye on China mainland and their Emperor.

[NamerOfStars]

Depends- did the Afghans "do the impossible"? Hell, they not only beat the USSR, they beat the USA (and the UK, and the Persians, and the Greeks, and arguably even the Mongols)! Defeating an occupying army doesn't necessarily mean keeping them from taking your territory; it can also mean making it too expensive in money and lives for them to stay, and forcing them to go home.

[NamerOfStars]

This is a very weird analogy, I know, but there is still one Blockbuster video left- and the way things are going, it might end up outlasting Netflix, which killed their company. If it does, did Blockbuster win?

[Avicenna]

I don't think that is what was overestimated- a "Blitzkrieg" lasting a few days or weeks in an area as large as eastern Ukraine, much less the entire country, was unrealistic.

It looks to me like Putin knew he couldn't use all of his firepower at once and adopted a more deliberate strategy. That said, the Ukrainians have fought hard (well above expectations), and may end up preserving territorial integrity in western Ukraine.

[purplepoppy]

I think it exposed their incompetence rather than lack of strength. The risk now is they could switch to more powerful weapons even nuclear.

[888theGreat]

Nope, just inexperienced. Only Generals and Col's fought in any wars before Ukraine. Russia is winning but it will take years because Ukraine is a big country with many people.

Even after Ukraine's military is destroyed , it will be hard to control because the people will hate Russia.

[Zeus_66]

Not at all. All they gotta do is press a button and the world is gone. That means you can never under or overestimate them.

[Wonderwhat]

Yes, if putin decides to go out with a bang. Hopefully, he will be met with resistance when issuing the order to fire the nukes.

[Zeus_66]

@Wonderwhat: Doubt that would happen, but to your point, yes.

[driven159]

the government has always done that so companies could make lots of money from it they call it warmongering if we went into Russia or China went into there it would only last a month