Were the documents stolen by Trump even real?

[purplepoppy]

Here's the problem I've got. You have leading military strategists working for years on complex nuclear defence plans. Why would you hand them over to a politician? Not just Trump but any. They're not qualified to understand them, at best they just need a briefing on overall readiness. At worse they could sell them on, politicians aren't known for their honesty and integrity.

So I reckon presidents are given access to bogus files while the real ones are kept securely away.

Thoughts?

[abc3643]

The President of the United States is the "Commander-In-Chief" ("C-I-C"). This means the President is the ultimate leader in the US military even though he is technically a civilian. This is a paramount idea in America - that the civilians control the military and this is very engrained into military culture in the US. This is why the US doesn't have military coups. At the same time, we respect and give our military capabilities and benefits so that soldiers know they are appreciated and are part of us; that the military is not a slave group to civilians.

Military planners (and that include civilians like me when I worked on this stuff) work on strategy and tactics, but the "politicians" - the leaders in government - make policy decisions overall including foreign policy decisions.

Think about it like this: Politicians are like carpenters and the military is a set of tools for defense and foreign policy.

And, you underestimate politicians. You can have an idiot like Lauren Bobert or Margorie Taylor Greene get into office, but many politicians are lawyers and people with experience like foreign policy and they are qualified to understand them because the information isn't necessarily technical. In fact, it usually isn't.

So, using that carpenter analogy again, a good carpenter needs to know his tools to be able to use them properly. This is why politicians need to know various aspects of defense information.

========

However, your question is still a good one. Tangential to it is why Trump wanted to retain such documents. That's a serious question that is being asked. It could be to bolster his ego. It could also be that he might have been a traitor in a way; willing to sell that information to enemy powers to benefit him.

Personally, really, too many people have access to this kind of information and it bothers me. I accept that we have to let the President be "C-I-C", but, at the same time, I'd want a person to pass a security clearance before they could even be eligible for President. Unfortunately, that would require a Constitutional amendment.

[StormChaser838]

You have a point little Pops, however , the reasoning is deeply flawed, since a fundamental tenet of democracy is that all arms of the state with be firmly held in civilian hands. In fact in the states only civilians can hold office and military personnel have to resign from their forces positions before being eligible for office. It is only in the odd case where only after special permission is granted my the president himself, that military personnel can simultaneously hold office. Therefore, all of the highest decisions of defense have to be done by civilian office holders, and these have been directly or indirectly elected by the people, thus preserving the dictate, “by the people, of the people and for the people “. Now keeping all these most fundamental issues in mind , it is imperative that all classified issues and documents are shared with authorized politicians, no matter it’s consequences. Always remember little Pops, reality is always a marriage of an optimal balance of competing forces.

[Anonymous]

Briefings, yes, bogus, no. At least not with nuclear.

Inside the nuclear football is more than just A set of codes. From my understanding there are 3 different color coded files. The first is an index of sorts, effectively "who do you want to attack". It gives the page number for the subfile for the country in question in the second file.

The second file has essentially every relevant country with listing for multiple options... think of it as a nuclear dinner menu. With each option is a briefing including the expected cost, death toll, and response. Options range from what could be a nuclear warning shot, multiple "proportional response" options, and of course our all time. glow in the dark favorite: MAD. With each option is a code number.

The third file is the reason only the President can authorize a strike. This file is just a list of numbers. Next to each number from the second file is a range (5 or 6 I believe) of verification numbers. Only the president knows the right one. Next to each of these is the order confirmation code for the strike. This is the code given to the pentagon to a watch officer who's only job is to be on high alert standby to answer that call. From there orders are carried out.

The point is that if ANY of those files are missing, or someone doesn't know what they are looking at, or they don't have the compliance of the president, the strike will not happen.

Anyway, in a situation involving stakes that high, with timelines that short, you need everyone relevant to the conversation to have access to all of the information they can possibly understand... so yes, they gave Donnie a coloring book.

[Anonymous]

I am sure they are real, but can Trump even read, probably not.

[loveslongnails]

Believe it or not, some idiot representatives have the same access to high level documents as the smart representatives. The President has access to pretty much all this information. Unfortunately, Trump is that idiot politician, and he did have access to top level documents.

Whenever a questionable or illegal "event" took place in Trump's administration, he always had "no knowledge of it", and someone else took the fall. This happened at least 8 times. Yet, every single person who EVER worked with him has said the same exact thing - he has his hands in everything. He has full knowledge because as a narcissist, he's a control freak. The idea of "plausible deniability" with Trump is impossible, as so many of his former aides have consistently verified.

If you recall, he initially blamed White House interns for mistakenly putting top secret and classified documents in with his "personal effects" when he was leaving. LMAO. Right, as if close to 200 HIGHLY classified documents were just laying around, right next to that picture of Ivanka. LOL Yet, he actually said that to the DOJ and American public, expecting it to be believed. I can't imagine an intern seeing that many secret documents being taken from the White House and NOT panicking and going to someone else. Just another Trump lie.

It turns out there's recorded evidence that he knew full well what he was doing. God only knows if he talked to our enemies about it, but those documents are real, and so is the indictment.

[Anonymous]

The only relevant point you made here was "politicians are not known for thier honesty and integrity". This is the great American lie. It's why Trump got elected in the first place. Most of our leaders are lawyers or at least know the law really well, have a background in law. And lawyers lie and twist everything. Law should be about right and wrong. But as we know it's not what is it's what you can prove. Which is why there is a different standard of laws so to speak for the rich. Because they can afford the best lawyers (liars).

As I said Trump got elected because they've. American hates the average politician so much. Most of Trumps supporters don't even like Trump. They know he's a habitual liar. But that makes him just a little more palatable than the avg. politician.

To quote George Carlin "The avg. American doesn't like people who hide thier bulls***. They like to have thier bulls*** right up front where they can get a good whiff of it. This is Bill Clinton was so beloved. Because he's come out and say hey America, I'm completely full of s*** and how do ya like that. And people would say, see... at least he's honest. 😆😆😆

Trump doesn't even hide how ridiculous he is. His lies can't possibly be defended. This is why so many Americans support him. He's a protest of the whole percieved diseased system.

Like I've said on here with a previous question. "Since it's been proven classified info not being secured is a problem (Not just Trump but Biden and Pence as well) why don't we start going down the list of our elected officials one by one searching thier homes and offices and holding each one to account. Because as or fearless leader Joey has said "No one is above the law". And this arrogant attitude is RIFE in our elected officials that they are.

[exitseven]

I wonder about that too. I know a lot of cops and when the FBI made the raid on Trumps residence and kicked everyone out while they had the run of the place my cop friends said that this is how they plant evidence. I would not be surprised if that picture of the boxes stacked up in Trump's bathroom was not staged. Do you really think Milania would put up with all those boxes in the bathroom and why leave them in the bathroom in the first place when there was a walk in closet with a secure door where the rest of the documents were stored. I know my wife would go crazy if I took a bunch of boxes from work and stacked them in the bathroom. She gets mad it I don't empty the trash bin when it gets full. Did Trump put them there so he could do some reading while he was on the potty?

[Surely]

I know that I have several questions on the raid.
1) How many of those FBI Blood hounds had security clearance to lay their eyes on Top Secret documents.
2). It seems that the FBI knew what they were going to find. How was that possible?
3). I can’t imagine that Trump would have any documents scattered around on the floor. As shown in the pictures.
4). Plus Trump has Secret Service presence at his residence. So those documents were secured.
So as the saying goes. Something is rotten in Denmark!

[Malcom_Reynolds]

Oh yes, standard military practice for the military to lie to the president about anything they decide he's not qualified to understand.

Sure Trump's an idiot, but not all presidents are. And if they made an exception for Trump, there's no way that wouldn't get out.

[Anonymous]

Gosh. The only question of this category that doesn't piss me off. Exactly. And I hope they'll quit the political bullshit in August for good.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/XV4_EMtaC6c

[AviatorTom]

The strategists come up with several plans, some good, some not so good. Who knows what they actually release to the White House?

[msc545]

Trump is... actually the Commander -in-Chief of the Armed Forces, so disturbing as it is, he can ask for this stuff and they have to give it to him.

[Amur8711]

Probably not, especially the documents that they have given to Biden, he couldn't understand a Dr. Seuss book.

[888theGreat]

Some could have been planted. FBI would do that. You can't trust them

[Avicenna]

That sounds quite plausible to me

[Anonymous]

Sure makes me wonder.