Why are conservatives so against illegal immigrants yet so in favor of cheap labor?

[msc545]

You can pay illegal imigrants anything you want to work for you with no minimum wage. Since conservatives are so in favor of profits, why are they complaining about these people? This happens all the time in the vegetable and fruits fields of central California and other grop growing areas.

[RealMarek]

There are different varieties of “conservative.” The American peasantry and some of the middle class are the most numerous elements of the category, and these are severely harmed by mass immigration in the form of reduced income, high crime, destroyed cultural and community cohesion, and degraded education. The conservative elites were much different ever since William F. Buckley cancelled most of the real conservatives during the 1970s. The conservative movement was led mainly by libertarians of one degree or another and hawkish, foreign-policy-obsessed neoconservatives from that point forward. Lip-service was paid to the religious convictions of the peasantry, but their economic concerns were only addressed with bromides about the free market from the libertarian wing. This was highly damaging because 1) the American market was becoming less free, more regulated and riddled with cronyism and 2) the libertarians failed to notice that the classical and Austrian school economists never foresaw a globalist scenario when capital could be directed out of a country en masse by its elite to the total impoverishment of its populace. They all assumes where human capital existed some kind of industry would flourish.

[RealMarek]

As for libertarianism in general, it has served as a containment mechanism on the conservative movements. It is used to convince conservatives to support social liberalization, corporate power even when it works against conservatives such as cancellation and policing internet speech, and for many years, to do the same when it came to free trade and immigration. So the aspects of libertarianism that align with leftism are advanced. Meanwhile, every aspect of libertarianism that conflicts with the globalist neoliberal agenda - limited government, decentralized authority, constitutionalism, and dovish foreign policy - is rejected. As such, from a conservative perspective it is fair to say that libertarianism is the handmaiden of globalist neoliberalism and a tool of cultural subversion.

[GoodGuyBreakingBad]

They want them to work for cheap labor because Americans born inside America want to work for what they do and not cheap money. Conservatives know they can pull the wool over the eyes of illegal immigrants, and it's sad. When Ronald Reagan was U. S. President, I work for $3.35 an hour for our Summer program through my School District. That was back in the late 80s.

[GoodGuyBreakingBad]

Thanks for MHO :)

[whirled_up_girl]

I wonder this too. I used to live in a community that had a migrant program. Many migrants in the community had work permits to work in the U. S. legally but also many of the factories in that town would knowing hire illegal worker that did not have work permits because they could pay them less and not give them any benefits. The factories in that town benefitted from this much more than the illegal workers that was for sure.

[Anonymous]

The influx of mass amounts cheap labor lowers wages, raising the minimum wage means job loses.

[msc545]

It also increases profits which is what conservatives care most about.

[Opinion Owner]

Billionaires are neither liberal or Conservative

[msc545]

They seem quite conservative to me.

[Opinion Owner]

Jeff Bezos is conservative?

[msc545]

Maybe.

[lightbulb27]

illegal immigrants are an unknown risk... possible criminals... probable, drugs, gangs. They take resources from others whom are already here and the way it is managed, they are very expensive.

By being lured here by bad policies, they are risking their lives sometimes losing life savings, to be sent back.

Lastly, they aren't following our laws in terms of health... do they have diseases and put society at undue risk of disease, or death after getting driving permits with insufficient training (I've heard that is a scenario). There was a time poorly mexican trucks were causing deaths, so I heard.

A solution would be to hold so many passes for low income immigrants. Immigrants can lower the cost of food production and processing, which benefits everyone else that doesn't want to do those jobs.

I can't undersatnd why the other side supports illegal immigration... given the above.

I cannot blame them though... their lives are probably horrible. If so bad, then USA should take them over...

[BoopBoopBeep]

I suspect seasonal farmers are typically not illegal though, they are here on a temporary agricultural visa (4-6 months depending on the crop). As 1099 employees they aren't subject to minimum wage laws because they're paid per job, which could be this acre or that plot or however it's broken down. Same in Florida. I knew a Mexican guy down there that ran a citrus place... that's how he explained it to me. Are all of them on visas? No I'm sure they aren't, but the majority of them are (because his farm checked so they don't get hefty fines), so at least in theory, any curtailment of illegal immigration would be soaked up by more of the ag visas (sorry I don't remember the class of visa). Of course how that plays out in real life...

[msc545]

I think you are referring to the H-2A visa program, which indeed sounds promising until you start looking at the expense involved which seems exorbitant to me:

www.farmers.gov/.../h2a-visa-program

Also, H-2A workers must be paid according to minimum wage requirements in effect in the area where they work:

www.dol.gov/.../26f-wage-requirements-H-2A

It seems that hiring H-2A workers might actually cost more than just hiring citizens...

[BoopBoopBeep]

That does seem high, 9000, and punitively so. I wish I still had that guy's contact info. He had too many people there to just have "hired" his Mexican family/friends... I mean I saw like a hundred people out there, and he was complaining about when (Then) INS raided his farm every year and everybody was always legit because he was not paying "those fines." Well and he violently hated illegals. Haha now I'm super curious how he pulled that off or I need to start growing more lemons if you can sell enough of them to pay 9k in fees for pickers to start ;)

[msc545]

Not just 9000 - Keep reading down and you will see that you also have to house, clothe, and feed them apparently...

[BoopBoopBeep]

Yeah... housing is free though. They're in bunkhouses on the farm. Clothes are goodwill, couple hundred dollars a month goes a long way on $5 jeans and $3 flannel shirts. Food is farm-produced cafeteria style. So lots of beans, rice and stews made of local goods. It's like Army food without all the additives. Real cheap to make in bulk.

$9000 however... THAT is not cheap.

[msc545]

Well yes, plus they have to pay them the same as they would any citizens. I cannot see the cost savings at all in this.

[BoopBoopBeep]

1099 employees don't get overtime... are you sure minimum wage standards apply to them?

[msc545]

It seems like they can be contractors maybe:

"Unlike an employee, an independent contractor performs their work without control from the employer. Some examples include crop dusters, well drillers, and custom harvesters. For these types of jobs, the independent contractor brings their own supplies, has the right to control their work, and usually has a written agreement for the job being completed. However, the existence of an independent contractor agreement does not automatically classify a worker as an independent contractor.

[BoopBoopBeep]

Yeah so that can get around minimum wage. "We'll pay you 100/week but your rent is 50, and you can't stay anywhere else" sort of thing. That along with meals you can eat well into what you give a 1099... but that 9k up front seems pretty hard line in the sand.

[msc545]

It does seem like a lot of money to begin with, but I don't have a good idea of exactly what the relative expenses are for legal and illegal employees. That differential probably determines whether or not it makes sense to hire illegals. I wish we had the numbers so we could talk about this a little bit better.

[BoopBoopBeep]

agreed

[Joshydavid25]

Considering Liberals make more money than Conservatives that's definitely not true.. I don't know where you got that generalization from.. There's a variety of Conservatives, and many people that businesses should pay people what they are worth.. As for illegal Immigrants, America seems to be the only country deliberately allowing it to happen.. Not even Canada is doing that..

[msc545]

Most large corporations are owned by Conservatives. I don't know why you think liberals make more money.

[Joshydavid25]

Which large corporations? And because it's true.. Overall Liberals make more money than Conservatives..

[msc545]

Every oil company. All auto companies.

[Joshydavid25]

Those all seem like corporations in the background and not the biggest corporations.. The ones that require advertising, that could actually have an effect on the general public.

[msc545]

So wait - you now admit you were wrong and conservatives actually make more money?

[Joshydavid25]

Where did you get that from my statement? Lmao.. No, Liberals earn more than Conservatives..

[msc545]

Evidence? Or is that just your opinion?

[Joshydavid25]

"Conservatives earn half of what liberals earn. Those who support the death penalty earn half as much as those who oppose the death penalty."
"thetayf. com"

"In everyday American households, it seems that Democrats have a higher mean salary. It’s true that many of the wealthiest families in the country are contributing to Republican campaigns. On the contrary, families registered as Democrats have higher annual salaries than Republicans, statistically speaking."

budgetandthebees. com

Unfortunately I can't post an actual link I'm not Level 3..

[msc545]

What is the basis for those apparently unsupported statements on unknown websites?

[Joshydavid25]

I couldn't post links at the time because I was only level 2.. So I couldn't support them.. LOL..

[msc545]

You can't because it isn't true.

[Joshydavid25]

I did have links, but at the time I couldn't post them so I posted the Website names instead..

[exitseven]

I am in favor of neither. Having illegal aliens will eventually cause wages to go down it is a lose- lose situation for all americans except democrst politicians.

[msc545]

Conservatives love the idea of wages going down because that means their profit goes up. After all that is all they care about.

[exitseven]

Not all conservatives have such short sighted ideas.. In the long run having the country devolve into chaos will not benefit anyone except the politicians that have a vested interest in the destruction of America.

[msc545]

The agricultural section of the country is not in chaos. They employ illegal immigrants routinely here in California to attend and pick crops. They do this because they get to pay them poverty level wages to do this very hard work and there are no legal consequences for doing so. They would like to continue doing this but on the other hand like yourself screaming and yelling about the supposedly criminal terrible illegal immigrants while simultaneously employing them in the service of their own enrichment. Can you spell the word hypocrites?

[exitseven]

By law migrant farm workers are supposed to have green cards. If they do not have a green card they are breaking our laws. If you have a system where only certain laws are enforced it soon devolves into a police state. This is unfolding righting front of our eyes

[msc545]

@exitseven Don't be naive.

Law enforcement does not enforce immigration laws against huge agricultural corporations with huge amounts of money and immense political power.

[exitseven]

Is there any way we can check to see if that is really true? If I was an ICE agent looking to get promoted that would be the first place I would raid

[msc545]

That would also be your last day of work. Do you understand how political power actually works?

[exitseven]

They would have a really hard time getting rid of me while the cameras were rolling.

[msc545]

They own those cameras.

[Flatmanlewis]

Conservative here. Against both. Big business can afford to pay decent wages and does not need illegal immigrant labor to thrive.

[msc545]

They can afford it but they don't want to, and the large growers go to great lengths to hire illegal immigrants, with the tacit approval of law enforcement.

[msc545]

We have conservatives ranting and raving about immigrants on here every day. They are the same people that own the large fields in Central California, an employee thousands of illegal immigrants to tend and harvest their crops. Those things are not up for discussion as to their veracity.

[FunkyMonkee]

Why are democrats so against them, coming here legally, if they want them here so badly? And, why is it none of them will take them in but expect the rest of us to deal with them?

[msc545]

I think you misread what I wrote. It is the Republicans who are so against immigrants, and won't take them in, but also want cheap labor.

[FunkyMonkee]

In the meantime, we bussed a few dozen of them to a democrat-run "sanctuary city" and they had them shipped out in less than 24 hours!! If they actually stood by their own bullshit, they would've been OVERJOYED to have them there and live amongst them and even gave them a room in their mansions!
Oh! I forgot!! Mainstream media doesn't report such things!

[msc545]

Did you p[personally see this happen?

[FunkyMonkee]

Why do I have to? I saw it online from, several sources! That's good enough for me! Did you personally SEE Trump lie, cheat, steal, molest women, commit fraud, cause inflation, and covid, and all the other bat shit crazy garbage the lefties come up with?

[msc545]

I did not see Trump do those things but he really didn't deny them either. I think the situation we are discussing was a bit more complex.

[Still-alive]

Its just pure racism. They put the blame on illegals so the people having it rough can feel superior and don’t bother looking above them. Its the people at the top who are the real culprits.

[strateguy632]

but we aren't. we realize cheap labor is bad exploitation ergo not excuse to let in workers for work. we believe in minimum wage too.

[normalice]

Putting the pmselves in charge of the solution means it will never get solved.

[normalice]

I understated what I meant: by being so loud about immigration it is assured that no one will ever think it is fixed without republicans saying it is. And republicans have signaled, when it comes to actually voting for solutions, that they will never allow it to be fixed and, on the other hand, if democrats work despite republicans and fix it, they will just get louder as they did in 2013. The message is democrats will never be allowed to fix the border and no republican voter will ever know it if they do. So they should not waste their time trying. Leave the whole thing to republicans so they can get that cheap labor.

[disgustingweebtrash]

Farming and house building were apparently never done before illegal immigration was a thing.

[Anonymous]

True statement. Although, conservatives are probably less in favor of cheap labor nowadays.

[msc545]

I doubt that. More than anything else, conservatives love money and meanness in that order.

[catarecute]

cuz they are raciest entitled snobs

[RedInnocent68]

Hypocrisy for one thousand, Alex.

[strateguy632]

only if you believe propaganda look at conservative replies here.

[Sabretooth]

The message is tailored to the moment.