I being a Muslim, condemn the killing of innocent people in Israel but I can't put a full stop there, in the same tone I Condemn the killing of thousands of innocent people in occupied Palestine by the illegitimate state of Israel for 70 years, I condemn the killing of thousands of people in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Libya by U. S. What are you afraid of!
I condemn 9/11, I condemn the London bomb blast, Mosque attack in Newzealand and Gujarat massacre in India, Recent attack on Ukraine and so on.
Allah says in the Quran, "If anyone kills an innocent person, it would be as if he killed the whole people: and if anyone saves an innocent life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people".(Quran 5:32)
A person who supports the killing of innocent people can be something else but not a Muslim
Double standard and hypocrisy can be seen on the face of the beholder.
I'm with you, brother. I am very familiar with the history of Zionism and Israel. This was never a case of Palestinians hating Jews. Quite the contrary. Muslims, Jews and Christians had mosques, synagogues and churches, had ancient holy sites, and lived side by side as friends and neighbors for hundreds of years in Palestine.
The Zionists set their sights on Palestine as early as the 19th century. The Rothschilds paid Britain for the Balfour Declaration in 1917, way before any "holocaust".
When the Zionists began entering Palestine in the 20th century, they introduced terrorism, bombing British trains, attacking British peace keepers, blowing up the King David Hotel, etc.
Then, when the Zionists declared the State of Israel in 1948, they instantly perpetrated the Nakba, killed thousands of innocent men, women and children in cold blood, levelled 531 towns and villages, and drove out 85% of the Palestinian population.
Israel spread from the borders agreed upon by the Balfour Declaration and UN, dispossessed Palestinians from their homes, vandalized their crops, poisoned and shut of their water, and fenced them in. They forced Palestinians into Gaza and the West Bank, the last remnants of "independent" Palestine.
Now, the West Bank is under attack, and the 141 sq. mi. Gaza strip is basically a Nazi-style death camp. People are fenced into the largest open-air prison in the world and not allowed to leave. Instead of gas chambers, the Israelis use disease, starvation, bombs and snipers to achieve their "Final Solution" against Palestinians.
Yet the Israelis manage to portray themselves as victims and Palestinians as terrorists, "human animals" and cockroaches.
Now it appears that Israel allowed the recent attack and sacrificed a few lives in order to justify its long standing goal of annexing the entire Gaza strip and annihilating the inhabitants.
The political class internationally, with one voice, put out statements supporting “Israel’s right to self-defence,” a right they grant to the oppressor but deny to the oppressed.
I’m with you, brother. I’m really not at all educated on the more longstanding issues between Israel and Palestine, but from some things I’ve heard, the Israeli government’s treatment of Palestine, particularly in the Gaza Strip, is not cool, and I’d probably be fairly pro-Palestine if things are what I understand them to be. But what Hamas did…. you lose me when you start raping civilians and decapitating babies. That’s not a “freedom fighter”, that’s not even being a terrorist, that’s being a barbarian. THERE IS NO CAUSE GREAT ENOUGH TO EXCUSE THAT.
I hate hearing the right wing in my country rooting for Israel to just annihilate the whole region, and I hate the far left excusing what went on a week ago because they just can’t waver on their pro-Palestinian stance. It’s totally possibly to be pro-Palestine and anti-THIS, and it shouldn’t be difficult to say. As an American, if I were alive during WW2 and American soldiers were raping German civilians and killing their babies, I’d be like “what the fuck, man? We’re no better than the Nazis if we do that kind of shit.”, despite ultimately remaining anti-Nazi.
So many humans are heartless, man, it’s sad to watch.
I didn't heard about raping women, but I am not saying that it's not possible, I don't want to neglect it by saying it's common during war, it's unacceptable, but about decapitating babies, please get your facts checked, as far as I know it's a fake news. In the time of war you come across many fake news, being a civilised Man you should fact check things before you accept things.
In the trt world media outlet, they published some popular fake news including the decapitation of 40 babies, about a German lady and so on.
Here is what I saw, from an independent news outlet, who are largely currently condemning the Israeli response to all of this… (The presumably raped woman segment is around 7:20-ish if you want to skip to it) https://youtu.be/x5ZSRSbRtO8?si=IsB7e0qyKRXvGeD9
Israel is not innocent at all. The issue here is that Israel treats Palestinians like second class citizens. They stole Palestinians land and continue to chip at it today. The news outlets in America are ran by jews who only put out information that makes them constantly look like victims and they label everything as antisemitic when it's not. People supporting Palestinians due to it being their lineage is being gaslighted by jews saying ," if you support palestine you're antisemitic ". At this point they're really coming across as the antichrist and I don't believe anything in that made up Bible stating Jesus is some magical guy. He was merely a man and that's it. I think they created the Bible to control the masses. That's my personal take
even if your list isn't lies, taking hostages is worse. no justification for hamms methods. accusing one side as if hammas justified is promoting terrorism.
Honestly as a Christian I feel you the same. I´m a bit pro Israel as being German and since I had to go through all the stuff happening in the Holocaust in school I´m pro giving the Jews a country and safe place and state, something they never have and had anywhere else. I´m against discrimantion of Muslims and ridiculing them because I have respect for their discipline and perseverance of them practing hard parts of their faith like Ramadan. I also condemn 9/11 and all those massive attacks on civilians. I´m against discrimantion of Muslims and ridiculing them and their prophet like happened like the burning of the Quran in Sweden or riduculing of Mohammed in France because I have respect for their discipline and perseverance of them practing their faith. I feel sorry for Palestinians having live with all the bombs and crisis and them feeling they live like in a zoo controlled by Israel being observed and controlled everywhere they go. Currently I see myself sitting between two conflict parties that both have legitimate wishes and needs and deep down I´m completely overcharged by the situation.
Really! You are one of the weakest person I have came across. Please don't take it personally. Take it as a criticism and try to improve. I didn't meant to attack you.
I believe you are one of the Man who strives to learn and correct oneself. Which is really commendable. But my question is why they have to come to Palestine to live! You would refer to Bible maybe. The thing is bible is corrupted as per the Christian scholars, there are things added and taken out. No first century manuscripts available. So how do you prove what you claim I. E Palestine. And this claim of certain area for certain religion is racist idea.
Let's say for the sake of Argument, you able to prove what you claim which is obviously not possible. In Hindu scriptutes they have ancient regions which is in current days Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Maybe Even Javanese countries as well, correct me if I am wrong. People from the West by their standard maybe say yes, India has all the right to claim all those regions again as it mentioned in their scriptures. That's sounds pretty crazy right!
There is no proof to show that the modern day Jews are the descendants of the people who lived in Palestine 3000 years ago.
Even if they are the descendants there are 2 issues.
Issue 1: Before the supposed ancestors of modern Jews ruled the land 3k years ago, there were already native people from various tribes living in the land. Then those natives have better claim over the land by this logic.
Issue 2: Just because someone's ancestors ruled a particular place centuries ago does not establish claim now. Greek king Alexander ruled Egypt. Does not mean Greeks can claim Egypt now. The British Empire ruled much of the world, incl. America. That does not give the British the right to take over America. Same way, Muslims ruled Spain, India, etc., that does not mean we have rights to these lands now.
The Christian world kept on persecuting the Jews everywhere, and was aggravated during the war era, through nazism. Muslims restored rights to the Jews wherever the Muslims ruled, incl. Spain, Palestine, etc.
Anyway, the Ottoman Empire was ruling over Palestine as a custodian, just like they ruled over Makkah and Madinah before the fall of the Ottomans, when Palestinians were living there, and it was all good, and they were mostly appreciative of Ottoman rule. The British and the French decided to overthrow Ottomans, and promised the Jews in Europe that they will "give" Palestine to them. This caused the creation of Israel. An illegitimate creation, as it was given to the undeserving, by a someone who does not own it. It is like me selling your land to someone.
It was not theirs to give it to anyone. There were already Palestinians there.
And unbeknownst to this, the Jews persecuted by the Christians took aboard the ship Theodor Herzl and sought refuge in Palestine. Palestinians, being Muslims, gave refuge to the needy. And soon, the immigrant refugees just took over the land, claiming rights to it. And have been persecuting Palestinians for over 75 years, controlling their water, resources, and even not letting them out - an open air prison.
Naturally, Palestinians will protest. Whenever anyone tries to protest, they are branded as terrorirsts and militants. And there are escalations from both sides. But always, the victims are more in Palestine side; and Israel gets complete military backing from the US and other countries.
UN calls this a "blatant violation of human rights", and there are various resolutions passed against Israel, but they just pass resolutions, giving no benefit.
Jews frequently call for genocide of Palestinians. They keep throwing Palestinians out of their homes - literally. Raiding houses of families at nights, and throwing them out, and using the house for themselves.
And one of them infamously said, "if I (Jew) don't steal it, someone else is gonna steal it".
Various human rights organisation, including Israel's own human rights organisation calls the state of Israel as "aparthied".
In the end, the state was created in an illegitimate way - someone that does not own the land, gave it to another. And then, persecuting and kiIIing the natives living there. Calling them militants when they try to retaliate.
The world calls Israel as doing the retaliation when Palestinians fight; however, Palestinians are doing the retaliation, because the first aggression already keeps on happening as the land is stolen by the Jews.
I don´t take it personal at all because first it´s just an online conversation. Secondly I´m not really involved in this platform lately. Currently I´m mostly here, when I´m tired, overly-bored or sometimes also drunk but I have too much to do in my real life that I could come on here when I´m in a focused work life. So saying that I appear is just what´s the obvious since I´m aware that I sometimes contradict my former opinion at certain moments especially when talking about politics. The reason Jews come to Palestine to live is because it´s the place that is connected with their faith and culture the most. It´s very far comparable with Islam and Mekkah. I know there are differences but Jews are waiting for the Messiah to come and to build up the Temple in Jerusalem again and for him to put in place the kingdom of God from there. There is no place equally important to Jews like Jerusalem that´s why they go up that wall every now and then to pray because it´s what´s left of the Temple.
Christianity is different for Christians the Messiah has already come through Jesus Christ. What you have to keep in mind is there is more than just the Bible. There is a Christian and a Jewish tradition about half of the books are similar but they have a different tradition since both religions have a canon and a non canonical tradition. I´m not saying to attack you but most people that say the Bible is corrupted to so to justify adding personal revelations they feel the need to add to the Bible. There are nearly 6000 manuscripts of the New Testament alone that have been found from the second century on to the forth century. In comparison there are 13 manuscripts known for Marc Aurel, a Roman Emperor some people read as a rolemodel of Stoicism. Of other authors and scriptures there are no equal numbers of manuscripts in comparison to the New Testament. There are references in historical books by Jewish, Roman and Greek historians. It´s not completely true that Moslems were all nice to Jews, too since they dress codes for Jews are a Muslim invention.
Concerning Hinduism I can´t say much because I don´t know much. The idea that a certain area has a certain religion is also practiced by Iran since they want to be theocracy and don´t want other religions in their country. It´s racist if it´s practiced like the Buddhists of Myanmar persecuting the the Rohygna that are Muslim. Then yes but the idea that a faith is connected to a certain country and region in the world isn´t. That´s where I would draw the line. I can´t use the comparison with Hinduism because I don´t know much about it. I´d therefore like to point out one major difference at least Christianity and maybe also Islam and the Jewish religion in the way how a person becomes a Jew: You become a Jew by being born in a Jewish family that´s the main way. The Jewish faith isn´t focused on missions and people converting to their faith. In Christianity for instance that´s different you only become a Christian if you accept the Gospel, get baptised and proclaim your faith in front of witnesses but one doesn´t become a Christian because the parents are Christians. So the Jews are not only a religious and a cultural but also an ethnical group.
Personally I think the issue in this conflict are the extreme groups either the Hamas or the right wing Israelis since as far I understand the Jewish scriptures (I can read Hebrew) there are no religious texts I could think of that speak of a homogenous population of all being Jews in that state. There was never a Jewish state where only Jews lived in even if the Torah the Jewish law has description of how to treat a stranger in their midst and that´s different from how the Jews in the West Bank treat the Palestinians. At the same time I think the Hamas wants to eliminate the Jewish state so I see them as a hinderance for peace too.
What about the Muslim occupation that lasted over 1000 years? The Jews being the first to inhabit those places, in the 6th century the Muslim Arabs invaded the area, building the Dome of the Rock on a sacred Jewish site and continuing to kill and expel the remaining Jewish populations even after the Romans had done the same thing centuries before. The Jews built the Temple of Solomon, the Romans then built a temple for Jupiter and then the Muslims the mosque. The Palestinians must recognize the state of Israel and the two peoples must accept that they must live together. Jerusalem is divided into the 3 Abrahamic religions, we must "Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what belongs to God". (That Country to the Jews and goodness among people, to God).
Why don't you also condemn the crimes committed in Paris, Madrid, London, Berlin. Drug consumption and their manufacture in Afghanistan, the support of violent terrorist groups by Qatar, Iran, Saudi Arabia, ISIS and AL-Quaida crimes (both human, cultural and religious).
In the Islamic religion you must build your mosques on the holy places of others (that means, defile them). And this action create more complication and don't put and end to this desire of revange or hate. It keep it for later yares
See, both the Israelis and Palestinians are victims of the actions of much bigger empires before them. It was the British Empire along with the French that carved up that area during WW1 against the Ottomans. When the Jews survived Germany's holocaust against them in WWII they were given what is now Israel as a safe haven.
When the British left the region the Israelis were never given the chance to coexist as they were immediately attacked by their neighbors with the sole intention to kill them all.
If a bank forecloses and evicts you from your house and lets a different family move in who just escaped from the mafia who tried to kill them, who do you blame: the new family or the bank?
That's pretty much whats happening.
Meanwhile ordinary people just trying to work and live are caught in between.
Someone else here said something interesting to think about: If Israel put their guns down they all be dead by nightfall. If Palestine put their guns down there'd be peace.
Regardless of how true or not that is it doesn't alter the fact that Hamas are barbarians.
to mystic. stop echoing muslim propaganda and fake history. read a paper encyclopedia. for example jews entered israel in 1800s not "start after ww2. not granted land after www2" but brits recognized jew history in 1917. read about king david. nan.
It's also in the Quran that Jews and Christians (among other infidels) are inferior to Muslims and are disbelievers for rejecting your prophet's message, and that disbelievers that reject the "truth" of Islam are the worst of creatures. Let's also not forget that Muslims are commanded to fight the infidels until they're dead, conquered, pay the jizyah, and/or convert to Islam; also, the ultimate goal besides submitting to Allah and following the prophet's teachings is to establish a golbal caliphate.
And no, I don't care if you tell me the usual mental gymnastics like I need to know Arabic, I need to consult a scholar, I'm an Islamophobe, and/or I need to understand the context. A "timeless" and "universal" book that originates from an all-powerful and all-knowing entity doesn't need context, can have its official translations relied on as much as Arabic, scholars aren't needed for a "perfect" and "easy to understand" scripture, and criticizing Islam doesn't mean one has an irrational fear/hatred for it.
Before you further throw attacks on me, yes, I do agree that the Torah, Bible, and all other religious documents are just as if not even worse than the Quran and Hadiths in scientific, historical, mathematical, technological, and philosophical accuracy. And I also agree that atheistic ideologies like communism, secularism, humanism, nihilism, hedonism, socialism, democracy, anarchy, fascism, libertarianism, nationalism, capitalism, etc., can be just as flawed and irrational as religious and spiritual ideologies.
If the "Palestinian" Arabs stopped fighting, there would be no violence. If Israel stopped fighting, there would be no Israel. I do not believe Israel is intentionally harming "Palestinian" Arabs arbitrarily. "Palestinian" Arabs have it better in Israel than in Jordan or Egypt where they come from originally.
You should never target innocent people, that said not everyone is so innocent... Not even you. You openly voice that Israel is illegitimate as if they should be your subject (slave) not independent. So if they happen to target you, so be it...
You can condemn it all you want, but Muslim extremists continue to show the steadfast refusal to coexist with anyone and I hope Israel is finally going to teach them a real lesson. Yes Israel is definitely not innocent, but for Palestine to constantly provoke fights they cannot win and then throw civilians into the crossfire to make Israel look even worse makes it an easy for me to decide who’s in the wrong
I want to know one things, did isreal occupied Palestine or not! If yes we can talk otherwise, I know this kind of bigotry.
According to the international laws, which Isreal even subscribe that gives the Palestinians to armed struggle, obviously no killing innocent people but fighting with the soldiers, as the same law gives Ukrainians to fight against Russia. West support Ukrain but not the Palestine. We this is one of the most open secret🤐🤫
Of course, but we can’t undo history. Thats not the debate And I agree there too, that’s the problem with fighting terrorists. They’re just civilians until they pick up a gun, then they run back and hide giving Israel no option to fight back without collateral damage
The IDF has been treating the Palestinians horribly for a while now though. It’s one group armed by the US oppressing people who can only throw rocks back at them.
Consider this example: During the time of British rule in America, as Americans fought back, George Washington was regarded as a key figure. To the perspective of the Americans, George Washington was a freedom fighter, but to the British and the rest of the World, he was considered a terrorist. And the same terrorist became the President of US. Because they were the super power of that time, so whatever narrative they set, it got stuck. And world has nothing but to accept that. Similarly, Nelson Mandela, the former South African president, was viewed as a terrorist by some, while for many South Africans, he was a hero. This illustrates that the perception of the same actions can vary greatly depending on one's viewpoint.@Redstang88
So if you think that britishers came to do business in America and they have no right to rule over America/India, then you will consider Washington as a freedom fighter, but if you think, no, britishers had the right to rule over America then Washington was indeed a terrorist. So it depends who's view you are with. And media, power, money influence your viewpoint. Most of the time you don't see the obvious truth in front of your eyes.
However have you noticed that there was no these terrorist groups until Arabs found oil. Until US invaded these countries Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen. This is an open 🤐🤫
When these people tried to protect their own land and resources, West call them terrorist.
"What are we afraid of!" We are afraid of people who openly declare that anyone who is not a Muslim is an infidel who must be killed. Extremist Muslims define the situation as 'kill or be killed.' And moderate Muslims do nothing to combat the extremists. What other choice do Jews and Christians have?
I know what you mean. There are so many Muslim majority countries that aren't in the state that places like a lot of the middle east where terrorists like Al Quieda reign supreme.
Indonesia is one of the places that come to mind, based on the people, specifically women, I have spoken to who are from there who are Muslim, it seems that they only cover their head when they are in their place of worship. Other than that, nothing is stopping them from wearing whatever they want and doing whatever with their hair.
They seem to be doing OK over there so I think that is enough evidence to me to say that Islam is not inherently violent. I am even saying this as a Christian, myself.
But the most pious Muslims believe only Muslims are innocent just like terrorist groups often quote that verse while advocating for the killing of civilians. This is the deception, letting infidels believe that that your definition of innocence is the same as ours.
18.6K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.
Yeah I don’t know why this is complicated. We can be on the side of peaceful resolution and justice. Thousands of Palestinians don’t have to die because of hundreds of criminal Hamas aholes, whether Palestine initially supported them or not.
That’s like blaming all Repubs for the Jan 6 attackers.
As I mentioned, hypocrisy can be seen on the face of the beholder. You are giving why Hamas didn't give prior warning!
Isreal is fighting Hamas or Common civilians! How come there are more death of common Mass, including women and children! After killing more than 1000 innocent lives, Bibi is giving order the to get out of Open air prison, Gaza! Where would they go? Isreal bombed everywhere including the Egypt borders.
Pity on you! You fail condemn the killing of innocent people, those bloodthirsty vampires, Hatemongers. However I am not surprised by this. Hypocrisy and double standard is the Quality traits people who supports killing innocent humans. Not only they support but enjoy and celebrate.
This is not relevant when you subscribed to the international laws at UN after WW2. This is war crime, If you break the treaty, You will be called for, just look at the Ukraine Russia War. Do you say the same for that?
I do. Because at the end of the day, what did UN do to Russia when they took Crimea? Obioisly it wasn't enough to deture them from trying to claim more land. You had individual countries take action to halt the trade of specific items, but as soon as Europe needed more gas to hear their homes, they came with their hands out begging Russia to take them back. If not for Sweden and the US, who likely destroyed the pipeline, Russia would be collect ugles of money from those same Euro countries that tried to take a stand. UN is a waste of time and resources.
Israel uses the Absentee Property Law to claim the lands it forced the Palestinians to abandon in the 1948 and 1967 wars. It also deploys a range of tactics to declare all unregistered lands
For the last 50 years, Israel has been forcing thousands of Palestinians off their land, occupying and illegally using it to create settlements that exclusively house Jewish Israeli settlers.
@strateguy632 nope, that's not what i meant, the hostages should be released and the war must stop, you can't kill more innocent lives just to rescue the hostages cause in the end they all might end up dead, they must make an agreement and innocent people should be released because they aren't the fighters and do not cause any danger, they are just innocent people and i'm sure that many of them doesn't support this war...
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