Should the Palestinian state be destroyed?

[OddBeMe]

I’d call Hamas a criminal org that happens to politically run Palestine. But should we destroy the Palestinian State altogether? That’s never worked out well and ALWAYS preceded mass murder.

Yes

No

[Anonymous]

all the little kids being bombed by Israel is just making me say fuck Israel and if it ceases to exist it won't be such a bad idea after all. they re horrible killing bombing innocent people especially children in the name of revenge for hamas when they still have not provided any proof of they raping or decapitating babies they claimed. killing babies based on lies and photophopped dogs to pass them as burned babies, just proves Israel is a sick evil place that probably should not exist. they worst type of evil as they bomb children and scream at you to look at the Bible that they are the chosen ones, they should be obliterated.

[Jessikkaaa]

Hamas is doing the same thing.

[Opinion Owner]

@Jessikkaaa that's what they've been SAYING where's the proof? all the real poof shows little Palestinians being bombed it's disgusting I'm getting tired of the Israel supporters who just repeat the same thing without showing anything or it, where are the 40 decapitated babies Israel lied about? where are the rapes Israel talked about that today now come forward and say there is no proof for it? why is there proof of more than thousands of decapitated palestinian babies? why is there mountains of footage of Israel bombing innocent people but as of yet no bad guys just innocent people? where is the terror if not only from Israel? why does the footage show the old lady hostages that are leaving even return to handshake the hamas people? while children are being bombed by Israel? Where is the "SAME THING" you talk about? if not only read in words by what you read or told to you by words by some media supporting that genocide saying hamas did this hamas did that, where is the proof? Why did they make photoshop photographs of dogs to pass off as burnt babies as their ONLY proof? what is the need to photoshop when there's so much death supposedly according to Israel? the only death and horror I see is what Israel is doing.

[OddBeMe]

These are emotional arguments. Criminals can be caught and punished and a “State” doesn’t have to be destroyed.

[Opinion Owner]

Israel is clearly just killing all innocent Palestinians, not catching, punishing or killing the "criminals". AT this point, you calling anything "emotional argument" means nothing when the footage shows how many innocent little babies, children and entire families are being bombed mercilessly by Israel when as of today they still can provide no proof of what they say they are getting revenge from. Israel is just showing how disgusting they are and soon nobody will support them at all, not even a little bit not even a tad.

[OddBeMe]

Yes, its taking lessons from America in bombing "terrorist states" with no concern with innocents. And I think the Bush wars have taught us that its not cool. And our zeal for protecting innocents is being seen as anti semitic.

[monorprise]

Where is your proof? Hamas is a blood thirsty organization bent upon the total destruction of their enemy, they are NOT interested in peace.
That alone tells you they can't be trusted. Israel who really does hold all the cards has ALLOWED the mulsims to setup effective states of their own. Thus PROVING Israel is a reasonable player here, or they would not have done that.

Israel by contrast could easily have and Hamas is making a strong case Israel should have either deported them or forced them to convert as the Muslims states in fact DID to the prior christian and Jewish populations when they took over.

That may in fact be the final solution, and the only humain one given otherwise this blood shed will go on forever given Hamas attitude.

[OddBeMe]

@monorprise arguable, but keeping it on the bombings we can agree there are innocent Palestinians? Yes?

[monorprise]

@OddBeMe There is no question of innocent's losing their life in war. That is the reality of war and why it is itself such an evil. Innocents will always lose their life so long as the war go on. Unfortunately until Hamas changes their attitude and agrees to accept the existence of israelis they WILL not end their war and Israeli Innocent's will continue to be killed by them.

The fact that Palestinians choose to elect rather than get rid of Hamas in Gaza shows how little interest the Palestinian people in Gaza really have in peace and thus the lives of innocents.

This has to change for there to be peace, this population has to either be put at a safe distance form Israel as to be unable to attack there civilians or they have to come to see co-existence (Peace) as desirable and abandon organizations committed to war like Hamas.

You tell me how that is going to happen.

Trump made it happen by cutting Hamas off entirely and marginalizing them. This made it very difficult for Hamas to buy the support among the poor Palestinian population for war.

When Joe Biden restored that aid and attention both directly and indirectly via new enemies like Russia who Helped Hamas overcome Israeli defenses he also revitalized Hamas.

We really can't end the war in israil the best we can do is choose a side and abandon the other completely doing all we can to get everyone else to do the same. In the long run it doesn't matter what side you choose, lives will be saved by ending the unending fighting either way.

[OddBeMe]

@monorprise Ok, blame Biden. But then can we blame Israel for colonizing Gaza and stealing their fresh water, thus inducing this war? And that every innocent child killed creates a new Hamas soldier?

[monorprise]

@OddBeMe I don't know enough about the situation nor do I care to tell you for sure who is settling where or who is taking water. What I can tell you is technically there is not enough water in the region for the population, so they rely increasingly on desalinization plants.

This is a very expensive way to get water the poor panelist population is unlikely to afford.
I also know that internationally others countries have already bankrolled Palestinian water projects giving them more than enough water production capabilities to support their population. Their existing water problems thus stim from their inability to support that production and distribute the water. Which frankly has a lot to do with Hamas's never ending war effort.

Not only is Hamas refusing to support theses systems, those missile they are regularly shooting in to Israel are made from water pipes given to them to distribute the water.

[OddBeMe]

@monorprise so basically you don’t know enough to make a decision but you have against Palestine and it’s innocent civilians?

I don’t know enough either and all I’m calling for is surgical attacks and get the hostages back. We decimated Al Quaeda before sending in the army to Afghan.

[monorprise]

@OddBeMe If Israel knew where the hostages or terrorist were they would have rescued the hostages and killed the terrorist immediately. Indeed if they had that kind of knowledge its unlikely the terrorist would have been able to attack them in the first place.

This war would have been over many decades ago.

The fact is they don't know them and that is why Hamas remains a threat and they have to invade. Now the fact that they have allowed the population to flee also means they have allowed most of Hamas's leadership to leave as well making their invasion only meaningful if they can keep them from coming back.

Otherwise they will fail just like we did in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Succeeding only in killing a lot of people.
This is why ultimately the solution people are taking off the table which is deporting the population or forced conversion/oath as a condition of returning is the only long term solution.

The people taking it off the table are simply making it impossible to actually end the war. Thus here we are 70+ years later still racking up innocent lives lost in this never ending war.

[OddBeMe]

@monorprise funny that we didn’t know where Bin Laden or Al Quaeda were either and yet our special ops guys routed them out within months until Bush called them back. And Bin Laden got across the border into Pakistan.

I’m not an Israeli general or mossad chief, but even I can see bombings are stupid. Counter insurgency is better. And Israel could make this crisis into lemonade.

But they aren’t. They’re going down the same road we did in 2003.

[Opinion Owner]

@monorprise I've posted it on here a lot of times and I can't even post all of it because it's not allowed and after I do post it it is reported by one of you supporters of Israel bombing children. it's disgusting.

you however cannot even post 1 single proof of what they so called decapitated babies and rape victims. and if you can, that 1 single proof wouldn't amount to all the proof of Israel bombing innocent children non stop and their entire families. all you claiming hamas this hamas that without actual proof of any of it just repeating what the media told you are more disgusting that Israel itself bombing little children. All of you supporters of this should trade families with all those innocents being bombed, since you so adamantly support that innocent children be bombed using the Hamas excuse. Also just the simple fact that Israel had to photoshop a dog to pass as a burnt baby as their only proof says more than any of the bull crap you read online about what supposedly hamas did without any proof just that photocopied dog photo. sickennnign to the core. Israel should have never existed and should go back to where it was in non existence. because all they know how to do is scream the victims and bomb innocent children as they justify it with fakes as their proof of whatever it is they say they are getting revenge for. so gross.

[Opinion Owner]

@monorprise what's more sickening is YOU even asking where is MY PROOF when the proof is out there by the thousands of how many innocent little children are crying without arms legs, other lifeless little bodies, others bleeding hurt and crying inconsolably because there's no more parents, brothers, sisters, you are fucking sick actually for even asking that when the proof is in our faces every day. maybe all you do is read words that say hamas is still getting it as Israel bombs innocent children and ignore all the sick shit Israel is doing to these poor innocent people. you sick bastard I hope Israel bombs you and your entire family

[OddBeMe]

Yes and we can also mourn the 1400 murdered Israelis and demand the hostages be found. This isn’t mutually exclusive.

[Juxtapose]

It's hilarious how you both are buying into Hamas propaganda so hard when Hamas is literally firing RPGs on top of hospital rooftops. They are playing you guys so hard LOL!

[Juxtapose]

I want the exact pictures of these burnt kids and evidence that Israel faked it @OddBeMe and pink anon.

[Opinion Owner]

@Juxtapose what's not hilarious is watching all the little kids get bombed of which there IS FOOTAGE of and you still there calling those kids being slaughtered "propaganda" you are EFFING SICK.
i.imgur.com/IIITd9E_d.webp

what's more pathetic and sick even ben Shapiro posted this FAKE as the PROOF of what hamas is supposedly doing, if hamas is so horrible what is the need to FAKE anything at all? fucking sick Israel.
i.imgur.com/YYE4oSW_d.webp

even sick old Joe said he SAW the babies, which babies? where are all those fake 40 babies that were decapitated, all you find is words and this fake photo of a dog and the dog is not even dead.
where is the proof of all the rapes? while they talk about these 40 fake babies which they can't provide any proof of only fake images, you can find THOUSANDS among THOUSANDS of decapitated REAL Palestinian babies, REAL burnt babies, REAL bombed babies, murdered by Israel. NO need to fakes at all when there's REAL footage of what disgusting Israel is doing int he name of "revenge" for what they still cannot provide any proof of only words. FUCK ISRAEL! and FUCK everyone of their supporters.

[OddBeMe]

@Juxtapose I love when you fucks desire so much more evidence against your positions. Try making a two street, just to “seem” smarter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4akqiA2ONkg

[Juxtapose]

lol a German friend of mine literally asked me to ask for that proof because she thinks that lady is full of bullshit but okay dude xD

[Juxtapose]

People really suck up Hamas propaganda like no tomorrow, it's adorable and sad.

[OddBeMe]

@Juxtapose I think Hamas has little to do with it. Israel has been playing games with Zionist Christians and lobbying for more aggressive mid East strategies. And then they let this happen. Almost as bad as Bush ignoring Bon Laden before 9/11.

But a lot of the protests broadcasted have been awful and antisemitic. Not sure that’s the general feel.

[Juxtapose]

Israel didn't elect Hamas or cause anti-semitic sentiments.

[OddBeMe]

@Juxtapose arguable, but the Israelis certainly aren’t to blame. Other than keep electing Netanyahu, their “Bush” literally.

[Juxtapose]

www.france24.com/.../20231016-israel-falsely-accused-of-sharing-fake-images-using-artificial-intelligence

[OddBeMe]

@Juxtapose this is perfect my friend…. and I do see you as an internet buddy I rib :)

But this is where accredited news sites are needed. Because lots of misinformation and fake shit is leaking about it. And both Hamas and Israel are trying to sell their version of the war.

Try this article from the AP
apnews.com/.../israel-hamas-gaza-misinformation-fact-check-e58f9ab8696309305c3ea2bfb269258e

[Opinion Owner]

@Juxtapose and I posted the proof. So your “German friend” can eat up literal bullshit.

[Anonymous]

Should Germany & Japanese cities have been destroyed during WW2 ?

[OddBeMe]

No, those were war crimes.

[Opinion Owner]

No they were legitimate military targets feeding the nazi war machine and imperial Japanese war machine. To not take them out would have resulted in the deaths of millions on the allies side.

[OddBeMe]

Shrug…innocents were killed. If Japan won somehow after Americans leveling cities they’d have put Curtis LeMay on trial. And he probably deserved it.

I’m literally just saying Palestinian children shouldn’t die.

[Opinion Owner]

Hirihito wasn't tried after killing millions upon millions of Chinese children. The Japanese were by far worse than the nazis in ww2.
Palestinan children dying is on the hands of Palestinans not Israel. It would be like if the Germans complained about the RAF flattening Dresden while at the same time they were launching V1& V2 rockets at London.

[OddBeMe]

Yeah again politics. Japan surrendered and the US knew it’d be easier to keep their emperor god in “power”. But yes he at least tacitly responsible for millions of Chinese dying. And he definitely sent out orders for Japanese citizens on conquered islands to kill themselves.

[Juxtapose]

Odd, people like you would never win wars.

[OddBeMe]

@Juxtapose maybe, maybe not. I think we could have won the war by not nuking Japan, nor carpet bombing German cities. Read up on Bomber Harris. He literally managed the RAF during the Battle of Britain which would have made him a national hero.

But he went on to obsessively bomb German towns for really no gain except to make the Germans more united. And Churchill eventually relieved him and deliberately failed to recognize his influence on the war. Churchill ultimately regretted the carpet bombings.

[Juxtapose]

Let's be real, none of us are going to strategize better than four or five star generals.

[Juxtapose]

It's really easy to criticize people who make decisions in war because war just sucks no matter how you slice it.

[OddBeMe]

@Juxtapose I was actually referring, or regurgitating from expert historians whom the pentagon calls in for advice.

[Juxtapose]

The goal should be to neutralize your opposition by whatever means necessary. Do what you got to do and minimize civilian casualties while not compromising your end goal.

[monorprise]

When the Civilian population votes an organization committed to war into power again and again. Their minds have to be changed.
Letting theses people flee is really letting the bulk of the terrorist flee. It only makes sense if you post guards to prevent them from coming back, except via a through background check and a religious oath for peace.

[1073sucks]

@monorprise stop supporting genocide I hope it comes for you for doing so.

as for the question asker, why do you keep posting the same question over and over in different wording?

it's not a war it's a genoicde by Israel in the name of revenge for something they can't even provide proof of but have time to go Mae photoshopped photos to pass as their proof.

Israel is the scum of the earth surpassing even ukraine.

[OddBeMe]

@monorprise Or a civilian population votes in a racist ahole…

[monorprise]

@OddBeMe
I didn't vote for Joe Biden, or mister racist himself Obama.

I did vote for Trump who spent a life time proving he is Not a racist. Its funny how democrats without ANY evidence suddenly decide everyone no matter their history is a super racist ahole the moment they run on the republican party ticket.

Maybe is Trump spent a career supporting racial discrimination like Obama, or Biden to a far lesser degree you could point that out as has been pointed out thou-out their respective careers.

But nobody said that about trump before you found out he was a republican which is why nobody with a lick of sense beleive you when you call ANYONE racist. That is just your way of saying you disagree with them.

[monorprise]

@1073sucks I don't support genocide, but a population has to want peace if they can't be swayed to lay down arms then they either die by the sword they sing against others or others die from the assault.

Palestinians elected Hamas in Gaza and polls show generally support Hamas. While a large minority of them are innocent of pushing for this war a majority are not.
That minority has the right to the limits of their ability defect and join the or take the peace oath.

[OddBeMe]

@monorprise Trump spend his life trying to prove he’s not racist because he is. Non racists don’t have to prove it.
www.vox.com/.../donald-trump-racist-racism-history

[1073sucks]

@monorprise yes you do support genocide. Israel created hamas and Israel has been making a living hell for Palestinians for more than 40plus years cutting off electricity and filling their waterways with concrete among other things and yet they have the audacity to say they are getting "revenge"? for what? for Palestine finally standing up to them and then Israel bombing the shit out of hospitals and schools targeting mostly children saying they are getting "hamas"? Israel is just really SCUM! using photoshopped images to pass as proof for their sick agenda is just the epitome of all sickens. they are mental and delusionals as they kill all innocent people and trying to give money to people to support them because they are losing every supporter. Only the very ignorant or supporters of genocide will stick and stand by them. Like you. 🤮🇮🇱

[monorprise]

@OddBeMe
I just looked over your Vox article and it frankly reflects the source in the entire list I saw only a few vague claims of racism. Mostly made retrospectively After running for president.
Nearly all of it was your standard conspiratorial and guilt by distant relations nonsense members of the far left like Vox constantly play to try and pin the racist tail on whom ever they want. The stuff you could easily claim against anyone.

If you want we can go down the list and address each one.

[monorprise]

@1073sucks
Israel did not create Hamas, either your telling me Hamas is an unavoidable result of Israel's actions you will need to telling what precise action. Hamas's tells me its Israel's mere existence.

As for your charges against Israel your probably wasting your time as there has been almost no peace in that entire 40 year period, in which the Palestine's leadership were not actively trying to kill Israels, as such I'm sure we could both point to an endless list of reverence one has committed against the other, justifying the others acts.

its is mere childishness to point to any such act, when today the solution of peace was offered and rejected NOT by Israel but Palestine.

Ultimately theses series of abuses will only continue to go on until Palestine agrees to peace. Then and only then will she be able to direct her energy towards generating her own energy and water.

The rest of the world has given Palestine more than enough capacity if they would simply stop spending everything they have on war for a while.

[OddBeMe]

@monorprise Oh dear! Low standards of journalistic excellence. Do you have a YouTuber I could watch or a Facebook post that’s your only news outlet?

Yeah Trump got plenty of flak running the full page ad against the Central Park Five. And he’s always been under shrouds of suspicion since evidence of his daddy Fred comixing with the KKK.

[monorprise]

No @OddBeMe I don't have any news outlets that reflect my politician views.

I am far more interested in the system by which theses views are put into place than the spesfic outcomes which are far too predictable given the demographics and economics alliances our leaders have setup to secure their own largely unaccountably hold on power.

That said I'm not going to sit here and tell you Vox is anything other than a pure propaganda outlet, they make that fact quite obvious in this article where they fail to establish any real concrete evidence. On a ever more nit-picky and ill-relvent question.

I am soo tired of everything being called racist and the standard of what is a 'racist' being soo broad I am at a loss as to why you even bother throwing around the term. For example I am absolutely certain that you @OddBeMe are a huge racist.

Many of your views and policy preferences are very strongly connected to your beleive in discriminatory behavior on the account of race. Perhaps you justify such racism out of some foolish desire to somehow "re-ballance" against the supposed racism of others but that doesn't change anything even if it did work and it never does as leftist spent the last 50 years proving, and was known to be the case for thousands of year.

Because nobody will ever agree what equality is this is an impossible standard to ever meet. You either forgive or keep fighting forever in a vain effort to somehow get "justice".

[Juxtapose]

@monorprise they'll never see the truth. If it's white it ain't right, if it's brown give it a crown 👑

[OddBeMe]

@monorprise I would just say: research what scientist say about which news outlets are the most propagandish…
guides.lib.umich.edu/c.php?g=637508&p=4462444

[monorprise]

@OddBeMe You tell me to research what 'scientist' have to say and point me to a left-wing university link.

Im sure someone has told you countless times that calling yourself a 'scientist' no more makes you right, than it makes you honest or unbiased. Science is a process not a profession and certainty not a set of individuals.

That process acknowledges no one man or group of men can ever know the truth beyond question and thus when reporting to publish any kind of study it is ALWAYS regarded as biased and subject to question. If you want me to debate their report as I did your propaganda piece we can do that too.

In this particular articles case they seem to be claiming to have taken a representative sample of the population are rating based upon their perceptions. I didn't find the demographic data of the source sample however based upon how they rated various news outlets its very clear they significant over-sampled people on the left.
This is of course extremely unlikely

[OddBeMe]

@monorprise that’s another issue. Despite science being unbiased, why do think educated people are more likely left leaning? Couldn’t that be a clue that your side is wrong?

[monorprise]

@OddBeMe
The question of the leaning of "educated" people today is really just a question of who is doing the "educating" today. This of course was not always so, but for the last generation or so Universities have been taken over by the extreme left of the 1960's to the point where they are today rather transparently fascist institutions.

Still among people who went to other schools Ideologically to the right of Joe Stalin they do in fact lean right.

[monorprise]

Where Science is a process education is a subjective set of information historically more often than not selectively shared for indoctrination and control reasons.

A libarty is that accepts all books and organizes information regardless of its nature is a far more neutral platform than an institution where said information is carefully curated and cherry picked by people to be selectively shared with people who have no way of knowing any better.

That is exactly what a 'school' is, you just assume as we were told that the people choosing what is shared are at all even handed. When in fact they are as ideological as the politicians who pay their checks, and to the degree they are NOT the same politicians they are even less accountable.

[Still-alive]

This question should be re-titled 'do you support genocide or not'?

looks like we got 7 genocidal supporters on this site so far.

[OddBeMe]

Yeah it’s scary. And yet if I went with your title, these same fucks would just say “no.”

[Anonymous]

If they declare war and attack another country and refuse to cease and desist then yes.

[Sevenpointfive]

do you think every civilian is out?

[OddBeMe]

No. No ones letting them out.

[OddBeMe]

There is no Muslim good guy. Iran destroyed ISIS for us and for thanks we droned their top general days after.

He prob deserved it. But politics dude…

[Sevenpointfive]

have you read the supposed osama note?

[OddBeMe]

I never cared to. I did read the missing 28 pages of 9/11 commission that blamed Saudi princes for funding it. Bush stupidly invaded two wrong countries.

[Sevenpointfive]

i wouldn't say he did it stupidly. he was directed to do so. bush was stupid to begin with

[OddBeMe]

Agreed actually but still a bad decision. Thats why you have diverse consultants and generals.

[Sevenpointfive]

again you are wrong. it's stageplay. if you aren't informed yet, our government isn't in control. trump will take it back. if he doesn't, then i do see a big war coming

[OddBeMe]

You can’t really believe that. I think your pulling my leg.

[Sevenpointfive]

i do believe in the deep state (a group of people making very evil decisions for us)

[OddBeMe]

I don’t. We can’t even keep Trump’s sex life a secret.

The real danger is always right in front of you and not imagined. Corporations.

[Sevenpointfive]

i suppose it depends on which story you choose to construct and believe

[OddBeMe]

It’s really how self aware you are.

[Sevenpointfive]

you and i are alike but you just aren't there yet

[OddBeMe]

As long as you keep whining about Jews we’ll never “be there”

[Sevenpointfive]

i don't whine about them. i rightly accuse them. wake up because the entire world is accusing them as well. they can't come back from this.

[OddBeMe]

No you just have a predilection to blame them, with little to no evidence. I could “be there” with you on billion dollar corporations ruining the world (which some are Jewish, most are European and Japs).

[Sevenpointfive]

if it wasn't so in everybody's face that jews are to blame, then i wouldn't blame them at all. i'd gladly go about my day without jewish hate in my heart. but i know better. i'm not going to say okay, you're right. name these corporations that you speak of. i'll find your jews

[OddBeMe]

What evidence is “in your face”?

[OddBeMe]

Even if that were true, wouldn’t that just mean Jews are successful? You wouldn’t bat an eye if all presidential advisors were WASPs.

[OddBeMe]

Not sure what that means, except more Jew hating for apparently no reason.

[Sevenpointfive]

i don't hate jews. get that straight. i hate what they do. and everything they do is wrong.

[jogeb907433]

No, he must be released.

[OddBeMe]

Who?

[msc545]

Israel is a terrorist state.

[OddBeMe]

Likud and Netanyahu is. Hamas is. Israel and Gaza could work if not for them.

[Anonymous]

Only way to solve the 3,000 year war

[OddBeMe]

Funny Hitler and Stalin thought the same.

[Opinion Owner]

Yet they couldn't finish it

[OddBeMe]

You’re a psychopath.

[Opinion Owner]

I'm a realist, you're a liberal so utterly opposite because liberals can't be real

[OddBeMe]

Funny how tyrants always kill the liberal intellectuals once taking power. Even in “lefty” dictatorships of Asia.

[Opinion Owner]

Liberals treat manual labour like the plague so are not useful to the system, no point filling empty holes but at least the rest of us eat good, liberal lasagna anyone

[OddBeMe]

Well…we treat the idea that manual labor is more important than brains. The people? Just educate them.

[DarkLegacy]

Of course

[OddBeMe]

If it is destroyed then the people will be literal nobodies, unregistered and allowed the worst to happen to them.

[DarkLegacy]

They would all be dead so it would not matter

[OddBeMe]

50% of Gazans are children. You can’t be serious,