Have you ever heard of Marshal Ney?

[Julie4]

[RavVid]

Of course. Impetuous and an hour too early with the Calvary attack at Waterloo according to Napoleon. Didn't properly support the attacks with artillery whilst the red coats were in square. Don't know if it can go as far as saying he lost Waterloo.

I did see an interesting British program which had military medical experts examine if he was fit for command. Some doubt was expressed but is was bit iffy. The panel thought he wasn't quite the same after Moscow as I remember.

[Julie4]

Yeah , he was extraordinarily brave, but strategically and politically he was an idiot.
Napoleon said of him that on the battlefield he was a demigod, and off it a child.

[RavVid]

Possibly the demigod and child go hand in hand. A child like belief that it can't possibly go wrong.

He should have known that squares had seldom broken and it was a forlorn attempt. Tactically incompetent at Waterloo.

I'd guess he was one of those guys who will not revise his decision even after learning it was mistake.

He thought Wellington was withdrawing so that was a good time to charge, sure, but once over the crest and he saw the red coats in squares there wasn't a point in it. The combination of cavalry and artillery was deadly because tight packed squares meant every cannon ball would kill/maim many troops. If they got out of square the cavalry would roll them up.

Guns weren't spiked. British gunners would run into the squares then back out to the guns and bang off a few more rounds.

I think there were three charges from memory and Ney compounded his mistake. Didn't Napoleon come back from his break and say words to the effect of 'what have you done'?

[Julie4]

But to be honest, Napoleon wasn't in the best of shape either, and in fact his speeches weren't clear at Waterloo, he was already starting to get sick, he'd become fat.

He made mistakes he would never have made, for example, going back just one year.

[RavVid]

Yes. He needed to take a break at Waterloo so obviously wasn't well. I think he himself made comments that a commander only had so many battles in him and bemoaned that he had to win every time.

Even after he got swarmed at Leipzig he still managed to inflict several defeats on the Prussian army and the Austro Russian army despite being out numbered.

I only found out about this a few days ago. I go to sleep listening to history podcasts and sometimes the speaker headband comes off or I sleep through parts but I'm pretty sure I heard it right. Correct me if I dreamt it :)

[Julie4]

No, it's true, look at the campaign he led in 1814 after Leipzig, known as the Battle of France. He was incredible. Unfortunately, Napoleon couldn't be everywhere, and the others who led the French army lost or betrayed him.

[RavVid]

Battle of France must have been what I was listening about. Thanks I know what to search for now. Whilst I perk up to interesting bits I often don't know what the podcast was and so can't go back.

The 6th coalition had a firm rule on only giving battle to his marshals and declining Napoleon.

The other thing I vaguely heard was that Napoleon was offered peace if France returned to it's borders and if his son didn't inherit. Do you think Napoleon should have taken that deal?

[Julie4]

Above all, I think Napoleon should never have returned from Elba, for himself and for France.

[RavVid]

I shall think on that.

[DarkLegacy]

Yes was Napoleons right hand man but pretended to be on the side of the King. I saw the film Battle of Waterloo. He helped fuck things up for the French by charging forward with the cavalry unaided by infantry thinking Wellington was retreating.

[Staximus]

I can't believe this guy gave the order to fire at his own execution. What a fucking boss.

[Julie4]

Yes, it's true, it's incredible, and at the battle of Waterloo he said, "Come and see how a Marshal of France dies!

[AviatorTom]

Nope. I'll have to look him up and be educated.

I'll start with his Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Ney

[AngryCarl]

I've heard of him, but I don't necessarily associate the name with positive feelings. Was he history's greatest villain or did I confuse him with someone else?

[Julie4]

I don't think there is such a thing as a "greatest marshal", but yes, he's one of them, just like Murat.

[AngryCarl]

Murat I don't think was ever mentioned in my history class.

[Mettbltt]

The general who ordered his own execution
napoleon's general

[Julie4]

Marshal 😉

[Mettbltt]

oh yes yes

[Mettbltt]

Do you think the result would have been different in Waterloo if Nicolas Davout had been there instead of Ney?

[Julie4]

Yes, or even Murat Ney was extraordinary, but at Waterloo he was clearly not at his best.

[Mettbltt]

Is it true that when it became clear that the war was lost, he attacked the enemy by drawing his sword and saying, "Look how a French Marshal is dying on the battlefield?

[Julie4]

Yes IS true

[Mettbltt]

unquestionably a brave soldier
thanks

[Julie4]

Oh, he was extraordinarily brave, but strategically and politically he was an idiot.
Napoleon said of him that on the battlefield he was a demigod, and off it a child.

[Mettbltt]

Then why did Napoleon take him to Waterloo

[Julie4]

He had no choice. Davout had become Minister of the Army and the soldiers no longer trusted Murat.

[Mettbltt]

What is the reason why soldiers do not trust Murat?

[Julie4]

It would take too long to explain, but in short Murat had "betrayed" Napoleon in 1814, even if it's more complex than that. Napoleon had forgiven him, but the soldiers had not.

[Mettbltt]

ı see now
thank you very much for your answers

[Julie4]

No problem

[Aegithalos]

I guess, one of Napoleon's generals. Correct me, if i wrong.

[Julie4]

You're almost right haha, he was a marshal but that's under Napoleon.

[Aegithalos]

I have watched the scene in movie Waterloo de Sergueï Bondartchouk (1970).

[Julie4]

Yes, excellent film. I must say that unfortunately Marshal Ney was not at his best at Waterloo, if only there had been Murat...

[Roudyrebel8]

Vaguely rings a bell

[Anonymous]

No, why would have I?

[KostasKouvalis]

I have NOW