Will Free Speech Eventually Die?

[Flatmanlewis]

Scotland’s newly passed Hate Crime & Public Order Act will effectively criminalize offensive speech. Controversy is brewing as there is already a push that it will stifle opinions that are a political opinion to some, but others label ‘hateful’. For example, voicing opinions critical of immigration policies could be called racist by someone who disagrees with it. A woman who opines that sex is a biologically immutable trait and not a “feeling or choice” and wishes to argue for the preservation of spaces for real women (sports teams, locker rooms, etc.) could be accused of a hate crime by her words alone. Both those examples could be investigated by police, which can result in the seizure of electronics or papers in the process, under court order.

Is free speech in danger of dying?
Is Scotland only the beginning of an Orwellian “1984-esque” future where thoughtcrime is enough to result in consequences?

(You can read more about the Act on the link below to an article from The Guardian)

amp.theguardian.com/.../scotlands-new-hate-act-what-does-it-cover-and-why-is-it-controversial

Updates

+1 y

Came across this update today. 24 hours of this law on the books:

www.telegraph.co.uk/.../

[Juxtapose]

The right to free speech only matters when people you don't like can say things you don't like.

[JayBones2469]

Never. There will always be John Hancock's and Patrick Henery's

[Flatmanlewis]

Humanity depends on it.

[NaultD]

Even the birth of democracy question free speech because every trick in the book of manipulation of facts was out there. USA was the last bastion of hope for free speech from the press. With the hope of honorably of the press.

Former president trump now calls the press the enemy of the people. That bridge is now burned by the the people of gop not the press.

Just replace god with freedom of speech.

"God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?"

[Juxtapose]

No it's completely fair for Trump to go after the press because they have not been doing their job for a very long time.

The most reliable press releases come from independent journalist these days. Fuck corporate journalists.

[NaultD]

@Juxtapose there is a reason we can't have nice things.

[OtterMan68]

the US has a First Amendment, so short of a Supreme Court that no longer believes the 1A is valid, yes, it will endure.
How many times has Gov DeSantis of FL had his laws and rules shot down by the court because those laws and rules violated free speech?

[Jessica405]

The worst piece of legislation to be enacted in th whole UK. It means the end of legitimate debate on contentious issues. I thing it is designed to stop criticism of the SNP.

[Flatmanlewis]

My few UK contacts seem to have more concerns than I can articulate. Apparently there is a perception that free speech has become very lopsided - some controversial opinions are being protected as free speech and others are simply shut down in their entirety.

[Sargentcaptain]

> Is free speech in danger of dying?

Hate to brake it to you, but Scotland never had it in the first place.

[Flatmanlewis]

That is a sad thing to hear!

[GuyAnswersGirls123]

Dumb ideas always seem to die out at some point (unfortunately not always in our lifetimes). Restricting free speech is a dumb idea that can't last as I see it.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I'll start somewhere small and snowball across the western world with punishments to match like execution for thinking outside of the agreed society viewpoints

[normalice]

Stopped at "effectively," as that is almost always interpretive.

[Juxtapose]

No wonder you exist in an echo chamber.

[Flatmanlewis]

Yet you found time to reply?

[Juxtapose]

Ikr? Flabbergasting.

[normalice]

I didn't say i didn't have time to read it only that you used the word "effectively" and so needed to be called out on your made up bullshit.

[Flatmanlewis]

I think you should reread the question. Nothing is made up - it’s a question regarding what is your opinion on a debatable issue. There is no reason to believe one single adverb tailspins a question into having a outrageous foundational flaw. I suppose I’m on GaG for the conversation, rather than to ‘call our peoples bullshit’, to use your parlance.

[normalice]

I'm not interested in addressing speculation presented as fact.

[Flatmanlewis]

Yet, here you are.

[Juxtapose]

He's just here to talk shit rather than engaged. Nitpicks the weirdest fucking things.

[Juxtapose]

*engage

[normalice]

As i said, I'm calling out your bullshit. Not engaging with it. It bothers me when people think of an excellent (i assume) counterargument to an argument no one is making so they just pretend that's what they heard to push their narrative. Say *how* it "effectively" criminalized speech before claiming it does. You can even do that here, if you'd like.

[Flatmanlewis]

@Juxtapose, I see what you mean.

[normalice]

So, not going to explain it, eh..

[Flatmanlewis]

What part of “this is a question, not an opinion” is not taking root with you?

[normalice]

The part where every far right gremlin on this site has taken a turn at asking a question with a false premise, not because they wanted an answer, but because they wanted to get their false premise in front of eyes.

[Juxtapose]

You're assuming bad faith off of some weird semantics argument to avoid addressing his point because it makes you uncomfortable.

[Flatmanlewis]

You have looked at one question and one adverb and decided that a “far right” label can be slapped on somebody? Buddy, you should lay off the energy drinks for a little bit. You’re seeing things that aren’t there.

[normalice]

@Juxtapose so you're admitting he has a "point" instead of is just asking a question? Seems like you should take that up with him. This is why I didn't bother to read it, by the way - always assume far right language = far right bad faith. I have not seen any exceptions.

[Flatmanlewis]

The funny thing about far left people, is they see far-right boogie men hiding e-v-e-r-y-w-h-e-r-e-!!!

[normalice]

Who said anything about hiding? You are being openly far right, ragetard 😅

[Juxtapose]

Not all questions are strictly asking what is the answer to a math problem or something like that. Oftentimes they can be driving at a point and are open to disagreement.

"Do you think God is real?"

The Christian has arguments at the ready to support their position but they want to hear other people's input and maybe even get their mind changed a bit or see some holes in their argument.

But no, you just assume bad faith and think everything is a far-right boogeyman.

[normalice]

@Juxtapose I'm of the POSWID mindset on this. If everything a person says echos far right misinformation and furthers a far right narrative, it is pointless to argue they are not far right. If I said "okay, he says he is not far right" that doesn't change the fact that if his entire question was drafted by a Kremlin troll farm, no one would be able to tell the difference.

[Juxtapose]

See? Everything is a right-wing Boogeyman to you.

[normalice]

@Juxtapose say rather everything that echos far right talking points I assume to be far right. The "boogeyman" nonsense is reserved only for those who pretend they have no idea they are echoing far right talking points by, for example, using words like boogeyman to mock the idea that the far right exists 🙃

[Juxtapose]

The far right as you claim is utter fiction. If you want to talk about reality, talk about Bush or Mitt Romney.

[Juxtapose]

Not some alternate reality where CNN is run by damn Republicans.

[normalice]

@Juxtapose the far right as I claim? And what am I claiming?

[Juxtapose]

Things like CNN is right wing even though they clearly have a left-wing bias.

[normalice]

@Juxtapose CNN maintains a center/left appeal so they can get whatever benefits the right put in front of the center/left. Or at least that is the best explanation I can come up with for all their false equivalence.
Here's a Google result, though: thehill.com/.../

[Juxtapose]

There is nothing about CNN that is at all centrist.

[normalice]

@Juxtapose I know. They are far right.

[Juxtapose]

They are far left. At least accuse Fox News of being far right when that is much more believable. Nobody's going to buy that CNN is far right when Trump fucking hates them and they are doing everything they can to help the Democrats while at the same time not trashing their reputation too much.

[normalice]

@Juxtapose or maybe you are just seeing a far left boogeyman everywhere 🤔

[Juxtapose]

If I did, I would have accused George Walker Bush of being a far left wing plant to destroy the Republican party.

I'm not even a Republican, I'm not even conservative.

[Juxtapose]

Nice projection though.

[normalice]

@Juxtapose you're very quick to catch on to the fact that I repeated your nonsense back at you. Well done 😅

[Juxtapose]

I'm not the one claiming an obviously biased new station is completely biased in the opposite direction of what they are presenting as very clearly.

Fox News clearly pushes a conservative agenda, that much is obvious. CNN is just as blatant.

[normalice]

@Juxtapose yes you are

[Juxtapose]

www.allsides.com/.../facts-first-cnn-media-bias

[Juxtapose]

Same website one of your lefty allies used.

[Juxtapose]

Go to almost any bias checker and they are going to say the same thing.

[normalice]

@Juxtapose well if you say so surely it must be true 😅

The fact is, if you were given CNN to control on the condition that you use it solely to discourage as many democratic leaning voters as possible from voting at all, you would not have to change a thing.

[Juxtapose]

Do you try to be this wrong or is it unintentional?

www.google.com/.../taylor-swift-super-tuesday

www.google.com/.../why-votebyoct22-is-trending

www.google.com/.../voter-intimidation-midterm-election-2022

[normalice]

@Juxtapose you know I'm not actually going to click on any of these without some explanation, right?

Anyway, feel free to name some change you would make to CNN to do a better job of discouraging democratic leaning turnout. I have an idea of what hamfisted approach you would take but would like to confirm it.

[Juxtapose]

Fine, then I'm not going to bother responding.

[normalice]

@Juxtapose you were already not responding so, no change other than hopefully it is clear I'm not going to respond to you, either 🤷

[Dargil]

No. The evil ones supporting it will. Hopefully soon.

[jahaims]

Free speech doesn't exist anywhere but America has it the closest.

[laly520]

thats no longer a free speech

[Anonymous]

No. And neither will stupidity

[Anonymous]

Liberals certainly want it to.