The recent and ongoing funeral proceedures of the Queen has attracted a small number of anti monarchy protesters. Some have shouted abuse as the coffin drove past others like the Scottish chip shop owner who believes the Queen was actually a lizard have made their feelings known on social media.
A few arrests have been made NOT for protesting but for disturbing the peace or to protect demonstrators from angry crowds. The police have made it clear that protesting against the monarchy is not an offence.
BUT it has raise the question, should you be free to express your views at any time or are there times you should remain quiet?
I'm sorry but I have to laugh at this or I mean that girl and her sign this has nothing to do with your question LOL but one time a friend of mine We Were Young we were cruising Main Street and we had a bottle of Jack Daniels and we passed this girl walking and I yelled out where's the party or something like that about 10 minutes later we were parked down this road and there's a loud knock on my window on the passenger side and it's that girl and she said what did you say do I want to party and I said yeah do you want to party and she said okay I go get in she gets in and she goes she saw the bottle of Jack Daniels she goes can I have a sip I said sure she takes the bottle and she chugs like five big gulps and my friend and I look at each other and she she started talking with it England accent and she said don't worry I've eaten bread when you know you're going to drink and if you eat bread you don't get drunk and I said okay we talked for a few minutes she said can I have another drink I said sure five six more big gulps my friend and I look at each other again so she says that her parents are gone do we want to come to her house it's down the street we said okay we walk in she says did you bring the Jack Daniels I said yeah she was going to have another sip sure she checks down three or four more big gulps and then she wants to make out I said okay I tell my friend I'm going to go get laid make yourself at home LOL I'm in the room in her room making love to her having sex f****** whatever and she's yelling out my king my king oh my king and I got to big smile on my face and a couple minutes later I feel a tap on my foot and I kind of shook it off and I feel another tap on my foot and I turn around and it's my friend down in between our legs with a big smile on his face saying hurry up I'm next and I'm laughing and he's going to make you my king I go get the f*** out anyway I'm going back to f****** her and I'm f****** her and f****** her and he's still moaning my king my king and about 5 minutes later another tap on my foot and I turn around it's my friend down on his knees again in between our legs and I'm going to get the f*** out and he goes you don't have to hurry he holds up the jar of peanut butter and then he holds up a little white dog and I busted up laughing I said no way and he's shaking his head yes I go get the f*** out of here we make sure my king my king I'm in there probably about a half hour 45 minutes I finish and I walk out of the bedroom getting dressed and he goes are you done and I said yeah he goes f*** what he take forever for I go because he goes I'm going to go in there and get laid I said well you're not the king I don't know she's going to go for that and he goes I'm going to try so he goes in there and I hear you're not the king and I messed up laughing and he's trying his hardest to get in bed with her and she's telling him to get out you're not the king only he's the king so after a few minutes I walk back in there and I go come on hamster or Joker or Jekyll whenever you are you're not the king only on the king and we start to walk out the door and I lock it and because I know she's going to pass out and as soon as I close the door the same thought I go f*** I want to go do it again but I close the door and it locked but I never saw the queen anymore that kind of sucked
i thought England already had some limitations on free speech. I heard stories of people being arrested and fined for making anti-Muslim statements on social media
Anyway freedom of speech is a fundamental pillar of the United States democracy. But having free speech doesn’t mean it okay to:
1) Yell “fire!” in a crowded movie theater.
2) Make false statements and claims about a ordinary citizen. That’s libel/slander. The law is different if your a public figure though.
3) Being protected from losing your job for what you say or do.
4) Be protected against the backlash of what you say or do.
5) Explicitly calling for a violent insurrection or terrorist attacks
6) Explicitly threatening harm to a person
So the free speech bill of right protects you from being prosecuted by the government. But some people think that should be changed because some speech that doesn’t fall into the categories above is still “violent”. So who gets to determine that?
It's a myth you'll get arrested for simply making comments on social media. The police simply couldn't cope with the numbers. When people are arrested there's usually a lot more behind it than the media let's on.
That’s technically not allowed in the USA unless you are making specific threats. However people are more likely to cancelled instead which can be much more damaging to your livelihood then just getting arrested for a petty offense.
Freedom of speech is a fundamental basis of a liberated society. If you start making subjective speech laws then you are teetering down the very dangerous slope of Marxism.
“I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” - Evelyn Beatrice Hall (she was paraphrasing Voltaire)
The adage "just because you can doesn't necessarily mean you should" comes to mind.
Speech in the US comes with very few and very narrow limits, but not without consequences. My family went through "free speech" issues at funerals for years with the Westboro Baptist Church protesting at military (and a few other) funerals. They protested at high profile funerals throughout the nation, but when they were short on cash or didn't have anything else to protest, we were an easy target because 1) we are only 45 minutes away from their home, 2) we have a military installation fairly close by, and 3) we have two national cemeteries plus a state-owned veterans cemetery in the area. If you're not familiar with WBC, they pretty much hate anybody that isn't them.
What these protesting clowns don't realize is that a funeral is neither the time nor place to protest, no matter how public. It's not about their right or their cause, it's about someone's passing and their grieving family and friends. Some civil behavior is socially expected, regardless of their "right." You don't like the Monarchy or the Queen, fine, but don't protest among a crowd of mourners who turn out to show respect unless you're prepared for the consequences. Those consequences could well be an angry counterprotest in which they get stomped by an angry crowd.
Thankfully I haven't seen those ass hats protesting around here since Fred died. I use to see them on various street corners with their signs 4 or 5 times a year. I even worked with one of his daughters about 5 years back. It was strange, she was friendly and not what I expected but her reputation proceed her and she didn't last long before quiting.
First lets just point out what Free Speech is, as so many miss understand it
Free speach means your free to express your option, without the GOVERMENT silencing you It dose not mean everyone or anyone must listen, or they need to provide a stage It also dose not mean you can't be arrested for being an ass
Now with all that beside Yes Free Speech shuld be respected at all times, you shuld always be allowed to express your own option on a matter about the goverment without creating harm, and better in a polite way
Should we be talking shit about the dead as they and their families pass by? I think not.
Should we make it illegal? I know for sure not.
You can’t legislate morality. People have to CHOOSE to be good. If you want to enjoy the freedom to make your own choices you need to understand what that means… You can say anything you want… except this this and this don’t work. If you want the right to speak your mind then you have to accept that people will say things you don’t like. If you want it legislated they can’t then you have to give up the right to speak your mind…
What we need are consequences and role models. Hold people accountable for the things they say and do. Consequences suck. It means having unprotected sex makes a baby and your forced to care for it for 18 years… It means when you make a mistake that hurts someone your held accountable… It means when you are late too often to work your fired… It’s because consequences suck that people will put real effort in avoiding them…
Right now we avoid them by dodging the problem rather then fixing the problem. Abortion is a perfect example. Regardless what side your on if abortion was illegal women would “OVERALL” be less likely to be promiscuous. Freedom of speech? Sure you can call me an asshole but don’t be mad if I pop you in the mouth. Gun rights? What happens when we’re invaded or the government takes over and we don’t have them? Or what if we’re allowed to have em and more people are shot? Consequences are necessary to fixing problems.
I don’t know if the UK protects speech similarly to the US or not. However, in the states most people are grossly mistaken about the first amendment to our Constitution. That amendment was written to guarantee that citizens could be free to criticize the government, and utilize the press to publicize bad operations at the government level. So criticizing the queen, though arguably in poor timing due to her passing, is exactly what freedom of speech is about in the states. Generally, as long as you’re not causing unrest, inciting criminal behavior, or outright lying about people, speech should be protected by law. That said, the Constitution wasn’t written to protect dummies from their family, friends and neighbors, their employers and coworkers, skools and classmates, or social media platforms. You CAN be penalized for expressing yourself in ways that violate rules, regulations and terms of service. If you’re too stoopid to read the rules, you don’t deserve freedom of speech anyway! Ell oh ell!
I am not familiar with how things work in England. But I would think that disturbing the peace at a funeral is a punishable offense. Freedom of speech is about the speech itself. It doesn't give you the right to say whatever you want, wherever you wish.
I know for a fact, if people came into my office to protest the Queen, I would have security escort them out and not think twice about it.
For all the bravado the trolls here display, they know when to keep their mouths shut in public. That's why they are so misbehaved here.
I say people need to grasp the history that the British royalty has done. Its like the massacres of those who protested along side Ghandi isn't something we should just forget about.
or
The fact that the British were highly intolerant of a lot of their physical geographical neighbors for the longest time and its only NOW that like guns and bombs and beating the literal shit out of their neighboring Europeans isn't a thing.
For me I'd feel bad for the royalty if they didn't try and like act like they aren't what they are. If your royalty you should embrace your title or give it up. Ya can't be royalty and peasant. That just isn't how society works.
Like what history books don't tell you specifically is that a lot of the shooting of protestors during Ghandi's peaceful protesting were done by India's quote "the queens batalion/guard." >.> its like by extension thats blood spilled by the queen. For a lot of the india's people.
Free speech is how ruler gets feedback. A speech is certainly less offensive compared to vandalism. Let's stick to free speech, it's usually your neighbour who get your angry hit. Except when the speaker is an actual dumb while the people also dumb that they form a mob huge enough to threaten the stability of the realm. If the dumb speaker is alone, well, just leave them be. People would understand if few of them proven to be dumb. I guess those speaker need to be educated enough so they would ideally speak things that matter. The ruler too need to listen. Well, they'll get punished if they don't. Remember the fall of Romanov's Russian Empire. But even then, people could tolerate them long enough before their fall to the Bolsheviks. As long as people have the mean to unite, people have the power to threaten the ruler.
I think such protestors should be moved along from the funeral procession out of respect for the diseased and those who've come to mourn. But I don't think it's right to arrest them. Call it "disturbing the peace" if its easier to swallow, but the message is loud and clear: that they get to define "disturbing peace" however they see fit, yet when there's an ACTUAL disturbance happening, they're nowhere to be seen. But I do think there's a time and place for Lawful protest, and the Queen of England being laid to rest is maybe not the ideal moment to air grievances. The role of the monarchy in modern Britain shouldn't be above scrutiny, but if I were at a loved one's funeral and some loud protestors turned up, I'd want them fucked off immediately.
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Anonymous
(45 Plus)
+1 y
Free speech necessarily must include the right to offend.
Suggesting that this isn't the appropriate time to voice anti monarchy sentiment is simply absurd, it is clearly absolutely the right time and is to be expected, suggesting that anti monarchy voices not take advantage of this limelight is ridiculous.
Also regarding the Andrew thing, my understanding was that he had been disowned by the Royal family in an effort to distance themselves from the scandel, that being the case he should not be appearing with the Royal family, he has been disowned and stripped of his titles, he is not a Royal anymore.
It is also surprising to see that Andrew is displaying medals, it seems to me that the same dishonour which caused him to lose his other titles should also have stripped him of his medals and I think we should be questioning why that didn't happen.
As long as it is not threatening then yes. This is not the 9th century, king Alfred and his family cannot put you to death anymore for offending them. They (to my knowledge I am an American) are not effectively anything politically, they are a rich family descendants of the monarchs and have wealth but no real power. Anyone should be allowed to say fuck queen Elizabeth and fuck Prince Andrew or the whole family. Freedom of speech means you are allowed to disagree with people even if it offends them
No, you should not be free to do anything you please, anytime you please. A society has rules and a certain order. Otherwise there would be chaos. If you want to live like a wild animal in the woods, then there's no need for rules.
What I see in the decline of western civilization is an increasing focus on the individual thinking that life is all about their self & that they have no responsibilities, obligations or duties to anyone yet they expect others to give them things like attention, praise and so on. Otherwise their feelings are deeply hurt and they want to cancel you...
So as an American I believe in free-speech absoluteism (yes I’m making a word up there is free speech absolute basing which I’m basing the word off of) so yes I think one should have the right to free speech regardless if I disagree with that that person is saying,
there is obviously a difference between calling for the murder of the president or monarchy or libel and slander but if you want to peacefully protest or say “god save the queen of the fascist regime” Sex Pistols then yes I agree with having the right to say inflammatory statements like that.
Yes. Without it, you cannot debate bad ideas! If it is controversial, but has some truth to it then it should be explored. Silencing dissent is what dictators and kings have done for millennia. Our society is smart enough to MAKE THEIR OWN CONCLUSIONS. I don't understand why people are being treated as if they are children, and cannot critically think. During debate, you may find that an idea considered "misinformation" is actually true. In addition, who is responsible for saying something is "misinformation". Imagine a boyfriend/girlfriend describing their side of the story, and anything you said could be labeled "misinformation" or just "oh that's bs he's a liar". That's what these fact checkers are,!
Times to be quiet. I am not a fan of all her past historical decisions but i had enough respect to be quiet and allow people who did have love for her, to mourn her.
I came across a lot of questions on here about her. I could've said my feelings but chose to allow people to talk about how sad they were.
Just because you think it doesn't mean you need to act on it and say it
There's a time and place for it. Totally for free speech. I am aware of these incidents and they were arrested for their own safety, rather than anything to do with 'free speech' I. E. Moved away for their own safety.
It'll be interesting if the chip shop owner has a business to go back to though. Not her wisest move.
Tbh I'm sure their are plenty of Scotts who are less sympathetic to the Queen's passing than the English. If her shop was in Scotland I don't imagine she would suffer greatly.
@AngeryCapsicum Time and place. I live in Liverpool, am a Tory and thought that was out of order. I wouldn't think twice of caving her windows in. For the record I am not a monarchist but I live in a city that is polar opposite to my views. I make them very clear and loud. If I am saying that as a Tory in a socialist city in normal times. You seriously, seriously, seriously think she will not be damaged? One word my friend, one word. WILL!
I also find it odd that during a time where it is not appropriate. Without a doubt I would have no problem smashing her windows in. My best friend is Scottish and we differ on many things but I do not think it's remotely wise to piss off the English right now. Even he knows that and he is from Drumhill!
There is no such thing as completely free speech. There never has been. It's an illusion for people too dumb to realize how freedom actually works.
It has always been illegal to say "I'm going to kill _____ person" because that's a threat. You are not "free" to say whatever you want. Also, a person cannot freely say they will commit a crime in the future or commit acts of treason. People are not free to tell government secrets to foreign enemies.
And people are definitely not free to hold classified documents at their country home in Florida no matter if they de-classified them or not.
Just because something is legal doesn’t make someone not a jackass for doing it. Protesting at a funeral is disrespectful to the dead and the mourners. It’s extraordinarily selfish to think your opinions matter more than everyone else’s grief.
no free speech should be not allowed like this week in the UK, about any of the royal family, one man shouted at prince Andrew about the underage thing in the USA, let's face it he has just lost his mother, shout him down later but give him this time
Oh, it's that time of the year when the leftoids are suddenly free speech absolutists. Wonder how long it'll take them to go back to their tyrannical ways again. Speech is free or it isn't. No 'but we'll just ban hate' or 'we'll just get rid of 'misinformation'' horseshit. If you don't like freedom of speech then at least have the balls to come out an say it.
Always. Not being able to say what you really think is incredibly damaging to society. You need to be able to back it up with an intelligent argument, though. Unfortunately the woman in the picture is just a braindead airhead who shares one brain cell with all the rest of her family.
sure. Especially if you are a Trump Entitled Supporter - and you go to Golden Corral for "All you can eat Shrimp" or Applebees for "all you can eat wings" and shout "FIRE" so all the chicken and shrimp is all yours
Some people seem to have trouble comprehending that either you have free speech or you don’t. It is very much a neither or proposition. Any infringement for any reason restricts that right. A mature adult understands something they probably heard as a child, to wit: sticks and stones can break my bones but words will never hurt me.
So you're asking if in the interest of good taste, the protestors should refrain. In this instance, I agree because it's celebrating the recently-deceased longtime ruler and there are better settings and circumstances under which protest would be more appropriate.
Good link, it certainly is a redicuous law. I have been cautioned by police for using a swear word during normal conversation with a friend while walking in a public space. That was 20 years ago but still, its absurd.
For this instance I say it should be allowed. Other people get trashed when they die, why should she have special consideration? Personally I am indifferent. Her death means nothing to me, just like the deaths of politicians and celebrities and others here in the USA. I genuinely don’t understand why Americans are sad over it or why we had the flags at half mast for her, it’s none of our business.🤷🏻♂️
Free speech should be acceptable but hate speech never. Free speech was never about literally saying whatever you want. I see this misunderstanding oftentimes. Express whatever you feel, but doing that you just cannot violate anyone's honor or grace or dignity. Otherwise it's not free speech anymore but hate speech.
Sound like totalitarian nonsense to me. Unless I am advocating violence against you, calling it "hate speech" is just a way to silence those who disagree.
@nrm736 the question who gets to determine what is and what isn’t “hate speech”. Some people believe calling a man a man and woman a woman falls under “hate speech” nowadays.
Hate speech used to be easily defined. If you believe in murdering and/or (for real) subjugating a certain group of people you felt superior to that was easily defined as “hate speech”.
But one side of the aisle conveniently expanded the definition of “hate speech” as totalitarian method to mute out countervailing views to push an agenda.
As long as they express themselves at the right time and place, and are not threatening the well-being of anyone, I would say yes.
Countries with limited free speech usually don't allow you to say certain things about the government anywhere anytime, and it's even worse when it's the government trying to hide its own dirties.
Within reason. There are times when common sense and respect should prevail. Like not yelling Bomb on an airplane or Fire in a crowded auditorium! But it seems that common sense has gone by way of the dinosaurs.
As with so many other "freedoms," it's only acceptable when it's not offending someone. SO - best advice I've heard is to think twice about saying something, then consider not saying anything at all. Thankfully, there's still no such thing as the thought police.
Suuuure. It's acceptable... and it will be acceptable when you tell that black gorilla (man but he's built like one) how you think he should go back to where he came from and the last thing you see is him go in his car to pull out a glock. :)
People have the right to say awful obnoxious things, and the rest of us who know how to act proper and civilized have the right to label those people for what they are… awful childish jerks.
It is inappropriate to use a death of someone to make a political point. They would only get some attention because of the circumstances so it is just wrong.
Also personally I just think freedom of speech should be allowed longs if a person can just block you or in IRL case you don't harass other's by following them and always expressing opinions that are clearly upsetting them. It's one thing to say something but another person should be able to not listen.
They should be able to. Just like I can mock them for being stupid and celebrating an event that changed nothing and had nothing to do with them. IRA have taken so many Ls they're just fishing for a miracle at this point.
It should always be free because the alternative is far worse and far more dangerous. As soon as the state has any right to limit free speech, there is no fee speech. With no free speech, there is no freedom.
There’s a video on YouTube a guy ask a Cop if Saying something somebody doesn’t like is a crime and the cop says If the Truth Offends somebody then it is against the law hence why peaceful protesters are seen as criminals
By Telling someone the truth you offend them hurt there feelings and That Can be seen as Abusing that person And a person can be Locked up for What they call it emotional abuse
There’s loopholes in every Law and every Constitutional right that’s why one can be Jailed for certain things when it is in there right as a human being to Express themselves
You don't seem to understand the difference between breaking the law and insulting someone.
You can offend and insult people as much as you want and not break the law. But that freedom is only valid in public off private property. When you are on someone's private property, like this website. . . you need to conform to the rules.
There is nothing wrong with protest There is nothing wrong with expressing an opinion. What I think is wrong, is if the protests or opinions are abusive or deliberately inflammatory and hurtful to others.
Sometimes discretion is called for. A funeral is not the place to call attention to someone's faults. Or, in the case of the Queen, call attention to the system's faults.
The relic British monarchy is the symbol of British colonialism, wealth robbery and unpunished crimes against humanity. Fuck the queen, the king, prince and princess. There's my free speech.
Definition of Insulting someone is disrespectful that person. Also a person cannot Tell the truth without Offending somebody so your opinion is contradicting itself
Offending someone is seen as disrespectful and you cannot walk around Telling people what you think without somebody seeing that as Disrespectful or insulting
No, there isn't. The ENTIRE point of free speech is that some will be offended. If we ban offensive speech then there is no free speech, only conformity.
On public property that is not being rented or leased by someone else: any time you want as long as you are not obstructing others
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Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
Nah. Nobody’s gonna show up to their funeral either and nobody’s gonna hear from these anti-queen protestors after she’s buried. These people live to hate other people for a living. They’re begging to be listened to like spoiled children.
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Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
You should certainly have the RIGHT to express your views. But if you had class you would choose not to. What's in good taste and what should be legal are two VERY different things though.
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Anonymous
(25-29)
+1 y
Nah, on this the place are literally held to the crown look at their crests/logos all feature the crown
Send them all to HIS MAJESTY'S prisons, really trigger them
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