Do you think this is why European censorship doesn't work in the long run?

[Juxtapose]

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx0iq4d_56XSYXsg8fBJei_p00k8h49LQH?si=Yyd5gMV6XX4B45bx

Go ahead and try to get that to happen in a country that prohibits "hate speech."

When you kill the open marketplace of ideas, you just drive the shit you don't like underground where it can't be challenged.

[Avicenna]

That’s only one of the nasty side effects of censorship.

[worldscolide]

It's stupidity. I thank god for the first amendment

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

Oh the wording and premise of this question 😏

Absolute free speech as a mean to make people talk with each other? That could work when:

opinion A ---------- opinion B
but when
opinion A --------------------------------------------------------- opinion B
then there's no bridge to contemplate, it's just fundamental dissension, I think we see that happening often enough on GaG alone.

About propagation of ideas and censorship, it is not ideal, it is a compromise. This compromise is a take at solving one important societal issue, it's a way to stop people re-questioning moral concepts that have been already debated and cleared. Let's take a common case, racialism. When someone is given absolute free speech and audience to spread this idea, when it has no validity as it is a political agenda disguised as science, then it is reasonable to assume it is effectively damaging society.

[Juxtapose]

I was recently in Hamburg in Germany and brushed shoulders with a Nazi I was passing by. My German friends translated for me and told me he was shouting for foreigners to get out.

You can't kill an idea, that's what the United States learned during the Vietnam war. You can't just kill Communism. You have to defeat it in the Open marketplace of ideas.

[Juxtapose]

Also Daryl Davis would have never been able to convince those Ku Klux Klan members to give up their robes and give up that life if they were not allowed to have free speech.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

Ideas are bullet-proof yes, for the best and the worst. Fixing the worst with more speech, during web 2.0 ? It is a near-impossible mission because: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief_perseverance

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

failed my link actually, I was on this one instead: en.wikipedia.org/.../Group_polarization

[Juxtapose]

The open marketplace of ideas exploded with the internet and I have personally experienced a lot of growth from there I would have not otherwise.

I have changed some people's minds online as well and there's so much information out there to help people learn things. I really couldn't disagree with you more on the internet's effect.

Yeah there are some echo chambers but those were going to exist no matter what.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

I agree with the idea that internet expanded our horizons a hell of a lot, but as I said, it's a double edged sword, best and worst. As soon as web 2.0 started we walked along a dual path:

A -------------------------> Sharing Knowledge
A -------------------------> Polarization

[Juxtapose]

I don't agree. Exposing people the more information prevents polarization.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

then how do you explain radicalization/polarization in worldviews? Mark me, you offered Obama, I will offer Musk:

[DrPepper12]

Some abhorrent beliefs should be SHAMED underground not legislated. The problem is with a decline of morals & reality TV nobody is ashamed of anything anymore when they're celebrated and monetarily rewarded for grotesquely antisocial behavior. It used to be a VERY powerful sanction...

[Juxtapose]

Not really, no. People were way more racist even just 30 years ago. There was a lot more bullshit social conformity too.

[ForsakenQuill]

I'm not from Europe... Who there suggested such a thing would be beneficial for their citizens?

[Juxtapose]

Many Europeans and even those in Scandinavian countries will argue for censorship until their dying breath.

[ForsakenQuill]

Don't they realize they're opting to submit themselves to that as well? They don't seem very bright

[Juxtapose]

There's a severe lack of introspection among most people and I sincerely think most people operate based on default programming implanted into them by their surroundings.

[Potteplante]

Goodness, most Americans are idiots. 😂

Try out that introspection - you cry othera lack. 😂 Muricans man

[Juxtapose]

You call me an idiot yet you can't form a coherent response.

[Potteplante]

Nej, det har du ret i. Mit engelske er ikke perfekt, er ikke brugt til hverdag og derfor bliver det ikke vedligeholdt som det måske kunne. Kan godt klare at være en idiot for at ikke mestre det sprog jeg bruger mindst. Så nu er det DIN tur til at kigge indad lidt.

Here's your coherent response. 🥰

[Juxtapose]

So you told me you are not very good at English and you want me to look inside.

[Potteplante]

Lol, prøv igen makker. Forbliver en idiot kan jeg se. 😂 Eller ej, lad være med at prøve igen - jeg gider dig ikke mere. Du er en snot dum af en slagsen herre amerikaner. Du er en af dem der burde lære at holde din kæft fordi at kigge indad ville ikke gøre dig en skid.

[Juxtapose]

You're as stupid as you are overconfident.

[Potteplante]

Lol, hvad end du siger - tror du nok passer, men vi ved alle hvor uuddannede i amerikaner er så bare hold din kæft allerede. Det kun lort der kommer ud af din kæft anyways.

[Juxtapose]

I could commit suicide by jumping from your ego to your I. Q.

[Juxtapose]

You're about as useful as a screen door in a submarine too.

[Potteplante]

Oh den uddannede amerikaner bliver ved med at bjæffe - hvor SØRGELIGT. Hold din kæft allerede hvis det er dig forsøg på at fornærme mig din lille mide.

Du er en ligeså stor af en komedie sketch som din tidligere præsident og den nu vidste for at støtte op om din LATTERLIGE spørgsmål det bunder i intet andet end dumheder og hjerne råderneri i den uddannede amerikaner hjerne du render rundt med.

[Juxtapose]

If I wanted to hear an ass talk, I would fart.

I would tell you to go eat garbage but that would be cannibalism.

[Potteplante]

Bjæf lidt højere bavian. Det er du god til - bjæffe og intet kommer ud. 😂

Ved du overhovedet hvad du svarer på? Eller bjæffer du bare tomhjernet as always? 😂 Stakkels lille amerikaner. "Jeg har engang været i Tyskland hvor jeg mødte EN mand og derfor kan jeg kommentere på HELE Europa med en amerikansk comedy sketch"

Prøv nu lige at komme med noget relevant her herre uuddannede Amerikaner. Lille more facts, little less comedy and self experiences.

Ved du overhoved hvordan du har en samtale der ikke bygger i "jeg har engang"

Alle amerikaner er nu pædofile - fordi Epstein var en, og alle amerikaner er the same.
Så tror jeg vil videre nu herre uuddannede, jeg døjer ikke med pædofoliske svin som dig selv.

[Juxtapose]

Aww you're moving on? But I wanted to bark for you!

[Potteplante]

Farvel herre pædofil

[Juxtapose]

Nice projection, weirdo!

[OddBeMe]

Eh…maybe. I do see German neo Nazism never quenching because of their severe anti Nazi laws.

But what we’ve learned from Trump: give them a platform, elevate them to your level.

[Juxtapose]

The fuck are you talking about? I literally ran bumped shoulders with a Neo-Nazi in Hamburg Germany who was shouting for all foreigners to get the hell out. My German friends who are with me translated and told me we should keep moving.

[Juxtapose]

Clearly censorship does not work.

[OddBeMe]

Im agreeing. Germanys strict no nazi law is inducing far right radicalism.

[Juxtapose]

Ohhhh I misunderstood you, my bad.

[OddBeMe]

Glad you agree is far right radical neo Nazis.

[beefcakebradybatson]

Right on, and hateful actions (as well as calls for a group's annihilation) must be severely punished.

[Ladsin2]

It can't last for long.

[Juxtapose]

China & North Korea are still holding strong.

[Ladsin2]

What do you mean by strong? The excess authoritarian control (takeover of Hong Kong, threatening to take Taiwan) to me screams insecurity. They're insecure because their economy is crap and their birth rates are low. It's not sustainable.

[Juxtapose]

You don't know that, you don't know that they won't last.

[Ladsin2]

I presume they will in some form.
Oh, I see where the confusion is coming from. I said the censorship regime won't last long here. I think the American people are pretty close to throwing a revolution. I feel that something is bubbling underneath the surface that we see rising on the left and right. The current status can't maintain. Either we're going to be able to find a peaceful resolution to this madness and power down... OR there's going to be a lot of violence.

[Juxtapose]

Ohhhh yeah I misunderstood.

I think people can exist in really oppressive censorship regimes for many years, centuries and maybe even more. I hope this shit starts changing though.

[Ladsin2]

Oppressive regimes are all of history for millennia and millennia so it can certainly last for quite a while.