Are you excited for prices of everything to go up when Trumps tariffs kick in?

[Lynx122]

He's gonna put tariffs on Canada who exports oil, gas and lumber to the U. S. so the price of housing is gonna go up even more now XD Also cars get produced in both Mexico and Canada so they'll get more expensive. And when oil gets more expensive every single thing that needs to be transported gets more expensive so that will cause inflation. And then the tariffs that china Canada and mexico will put on the U. S. in retaliation will also cost jobs in certain industries. So the economy will get damaged in like 5 different ways. It's gonna be entertaining as hell though.

So GM and Ford import about 1 million cars a year from Mexico to the U. S. and they're all gonna be 25% more expensive.

So the consumer will have to pay more for the same product or maybe even an inferior product since chinese EVs might be cheaper and better than Tesla but Tesla will benefit from this the most. Tesla won't have as much of an incentive to improve their products since most of their competition won't even be able to sell their cars in the U. S. So the consumer pays more and the richest man in the world gets richer. It really sounds like free market capitalists should love this.

[Jamie05rhs]

Why don't you worry about your own country and keep your nose out of our business. (Love ya, bro.)

[Lynx122]

Ok, but everything's fine here so I'm bored. Love ya too XD
The people didn't approve a highway expansion though so now I wanna see what the alternative proposals are gonna be :)
Also I think it's unfair that everyone can write questions about Trump and I can't :P

[Jamie05rhs]

@Lynx122 Lol.

Sorry about the road not being approved. I hate when that happens. They built a road here but only made it one lane in each direction. When they had plenty of space to have 2 lanes. So it's basically completely useless.

[Pterodon]

I don’t think it’ll happen. All the countries threatened are already on the phone with him.

[Lynx122]

We'll see. Trump was pretty unpredictable in his last presidency it seemed like people could change his mind if they had enough time with him. But Elon Musk is around him every single day so he'll probably try and limit the access other people have to the president if he can. We'll see how it turns out :)

[Pterodon]

Besides you don’t mind high prices at all. You loved Biden policies that really did cause inflation

[Lynx122]

I don't care about Biden or Trump lol

[DrPepper12]

So he claims...

[Anonymous]

I was reluctant to vote for Trump because I was worried about my daughter's rights and didn't want Trump take them away from her. But the price of eggs was killing I wanted egg prices to be lowered down, so I can afford them.

Trump said in the interview foreign countries would have to pay for it. I searched up what tariff was a few days and found out he lied. Damn it I voted for Trump and now my daughter will loses all her rights and I don't get cheaper eggs either.

And to add on top of that he's doing his mass deportation and removing illegals, so I won't have any one to mow my lawn or deliver my door dash either. I didn't think actually think meant he was going to do a mass deportation I thought he was only going to get rid of the illegals that commit crimes in the USA. And I also didn't realize the affordable care act was Obamacare.

[Lynx122]

lol nice one :)

[Opinion Owner]

Even worse I don't have my GED and he's getting rid of the DOE, I am fucked if he doesn't do the mass deportation. I need a job picking berries with a higher salary, so I am not destitute.

I don't have any education, so I won't be able to get decent salary and afford insurance.

[Gold618]

How does your daughter lose all her rights, now that Trump will be in office? What rights, specifically, will she lose?
The right to vote? No. The right to travel where and when she wants? No. The right to higher education? No.
Why do people keep pushing this stupid lie?

[Opinion Owner]

@Gold618 Maybe the stuff he stated he was going to do? The right to not die from a pregnancy complication and Trump said he is going to dismantle the DOE. I mean he said it not me.

[Opinion Owner]

@Gold618 If he states it what am I suppose to think he is not going to dismantle the DOE when that is what he clearly stated?

[Friendlybro79]

@Gold618 If flip flops on abortion. He's pro life one day pro choice the next. He's technically pro choice and conservatives voted for him. He believes in exceptions for incest and rape or at least has said it at times he is. He's hard to keep up with regarding where he stands.

Here's what people are concerned with and somehow many Trump fans have not seen this

In 2024, Trump has said in interviews that states with abortion bans have a right to monitor pregnancies and prosecute violations. The former president is also open to restricting access to abortion pills, like mifepristone.

Trump has pledged to:

Veto a 15-week national abortion ban, which multiple members of his party and the anti-abortion movement support.
Allow states to restrict abortion access.

Source
www.pbs.org/.../where-trump-stands-on-abortion

This is removing rights women had and won't if he does what he said he will do.

[Gold618]

@Friendlybro79 So, once again, it's only ever about abortion. Roe vs. Wade has already been overturned, abortion is already a state issue, which is what it was originally. The examples I mentioned - vote, travel and education - of course will remain the same, and no one will be deprived of those.

[Friendlybro79]

@Gold618 Only? It doesn't have to be more than one freedom taken away for someone to be not ok with it. How many freedoms need to be taken away before even you are like ok this is too far? This is a big deal for many people as it marks the beginning of moving backwards in rights. It is fair to be concerned that it starts with Roe, but where does it end. No one has more content for Republican voters than Republican politicians themselves. Hey if you're happy with voting for the degenerate that is your decision. Roe v Wade was already overturned and Trump takes credit for it. Again if you don't think it's a big deal there's no need with trying to convince others it isn't. Only time will tell if checks and balances still exist.

[Gold618]

@Friendlybro79 Don't be so melodramatic!

[Friendlybro79]

@Gold618 it's not melodrama when this could have personally impacted my family member who would have died, based on the doctor, due to a very complicated pregnancy. She didn't want to do it, but I'm glad she was able to survive. She's since had two amazing kids. You might need to stop being so dimwitted and mundane.

[DrPepper12]

@Gold618 MAGA cult supports handmaids tale. Trump supports whatever polls say, who last whispered in his ear, who can make him money & who does the best groveling and fluffing

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

Everything is going to be fine thanks to the invisible hand. If the hand is a lie, then there is still Jesus. If Jesus is a lie, well...

Someone will come up with another god, another cake, or any other parable. Just save Stanley, you freaking bastard.

[Lynx122]

lol :)

[phraseology]

Use some common sense. The U. S. forest products industry manufactures nearly $300 billion in products a year. America exports $10.6 billion in wood products every year, making it the 4th largest exporter of wood products in the world. We produce a lot of lumber. U. S. imports from Canada are roughly 13.7 billion. Canada is a small percentage of the American forest products industry and America exports are similar to imports from Canada. If demand for wood is high in America, the wood is already here. It's not like a supply shortage would occur. On the other hand it would be hard on Canada. So, it would be wise for Canada to do everything in it's power to accommodate America and fix what needs fixing.

[phraseology]

The same goes for products like oil. America is the largest producer and refiner of oil on the planet. Crude oil exports of about 4.06 million barrels per day accounted for 40% of total U. S. gross petroleum exports. America imports roughly 0.80 million barrels per day from Canada. So if the Canadian crude is more expensive, then America will export less oil and buy more domestically. It all depends on price and transport costs.

[phraseology]

America has all kinds of auto factories. Most major brands manufacture some models domestically. Certain models might become more expensive to import, making them less desirable than other models that are manufactured domestically. That's all that would happen to the auto industry. So auto companies would likely discontinue sales of particular models produced in Mexico and continue to sell the bulk of their model line up. There would still be plenty of cars to go around, but Mexican industry would be smacked, so it is in their interest to do everything in their power to again fix what needs fixing.

[Lynx122]

U. S. exported 12 billion to Canada but imported 28.5 billion from Canada , 10.5 billion from China and 3 billion from Mexico these will all be hit with tariffs if it goes through.

[phraseology]

Just looking at your list there.. Toyota for example has 10 auto factories in the USA and only 2 in Mexico. Mexico is primarily responsible for the Toyota Tacoma. The rest of their line is manufactured in the American south. Tacoma's had previously been manufactured in Texas, so it would not be hard for Toyota for example to doge the tariff and bring that production line back to America.

As another example Honda has 12 auto assembly factories in the USA, 12 part facilities, and 74 facilities overall. I think they have 4 factories in Mexico. In reality the rest of the North American market depends more so on the industrial base of the USA, than the other way around. America is the automobile hub of the continent. So yes it will be very fun to watch Mexico and Canada squirm as they get squeezed by the economic might of American power.

[phraseology]

I've got my popcorn...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It6hU_ECVSk

[phraseology]

The top two most popular auto brands in Canada for example are Ford and Toyota. America controls the bulk of Toyota manufacturing. Canada does do some RAV4s and some Lexus RX and NX models, but the rest of their line comes from the USA. and Ford has 9 factories in the USA and only 1 in Canada that focuses on the Ford Edge and Nautilus. The rest of the product line is dependent on the USA to bring those vehicles across the border. In reality auto prices will sky rocket in places like Canada and not change much at all in the USA aside from normal inflation due to currency devaluation at the Federal Reserve.

[phraseology]

Anyone that plays chicken with the USA is going lose and lose big. They know it and we know it.

[phraseology]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5RUbAP3xlQ

[phraseology]

Would look at that... He doesn't even hold office yet and action is istant... This is some good popcorn.

https://i.ibb.co/xjDX38k/mexico.png

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c89v4w51dzyo

[HighValue]

By allowing more drilling in the USA and reducing regulations, oil and fuel will be much cheaper and cause prices to go down just like it happened before when Trump was in office.

Liberals deny it, even though it already happened before because liberals just constantly lie like the no good scum they are.

[DrPepper12]

When did we become energy independent?

[Anonymous]

consumers don't have to buy anything which will force the producers to reduce their prices. if producers don't reduce their prices, they can go broke for nothing

build the product in America and avoid the tariff which makes the product cheaper as a result. I don't know why people are still confused over how the free market works

[Syntosi]

... You said it yourself. If America is a free market then the lowest price will undercut their competition and capture marketshare. If a foreign product replaces domestic products then they are cheaper, by default. If you add a tariff then perhaps domestic production will become more price competitive but that is because you are forcing consumers to pay more for their products.

[Opinion Owner]

@Syntosi the foreign product is the one paying tariffs, not the domestic product

the domestic product doesn't have to change their prices and making products domestically allows for more jobs. consumers aren't forced to pay more when they go after the cheaper price

[Lynx122]

There has never been a case in history where domestic products haven't raised prices after tariffs were applied.

[Opinion Owner]

only foreign products raise their prices because they're the ones paying for the tariffs. domestic products aren't paying the tariff so they don't need to raise their prices

[Lynx122]

They know that consumers don't have a choice but to buy their products now because all the other products are cheaper so they raise their prices just under the foreign products so it's not worth it for the other companies to import to the U. S. but so they can take the max profit from the people in their country. If you don't think it will happen just wait.

[Opinion Owner]

foreign products won't be cheaper because of the tariffs. consumers would have the choice to buy domestic products because they're cheaper and don't pay for the tariff.

not to mention it allows jobs to be maintained domestically which is the whole point of tariffs to begin with and stop consumers from being ripped off. the country can generate more money and become exporters when there's more jobs.

other countries have been using tariffs too against the USA which is crippling whatever lefts of our exporters. it's embarrassing they're having to rely on imports and can't sustain themselves

[Syntosi]

@Opinion owner
If foreign products increase their prices due to tariffs to match the cost of domestic products then the customer pays more no matter which they buy.

As for domestic jobs, the unemployment rate is about 4.1% right now which is not that high. This is especially since not everyone wants a job in the first place for various reasons or are self-employed in some capacity. Then you add the fact that Trump wants to deport millions of illegal immigrants who are employed which means citizens will have to fulfill those roles or those jobs will not get done.

What I am basically saying is, there is no room for a major increase in domestic production to replace imports. There are not enough unemployed people to work those jobs.

As for other countries using tariffs, they first of all dont want to do that but are forced to though their circumstances and they also try to limit the tariffs to a single product if they can. Trump wants to put heavy tariffs on everything. Dont bother trying to draw parallels with other countries.

[Opinion Owner]

@Syntosi foreign products don't have to match the price of domestic products. they have to exceed it to cover the cost of paying the tariff. domestic product price can remain the same

the goal of tariffs isn't to increase or decrease prices but to ensure jobs remain domestically rather than get shipped overseas and prevent consumers from being ripped off by slave labor overseas

Trump deporting illegals would free up so much jobs and housing and fix the homelessness epidemic and reduce crime such as rape and sex trafficking. there's nothing wrong with citizens getting paid full wages for those jobs rather than cheap labor from illegals

the American consumer is highly desired in the global free market. Trump knows this and is leveraging it through tariffs. companies would have no choice but to pay the tariff or create the jobs domestically. becoming exporters will generate more money in the long run.

Trump isn't just out here putting tariffs on random countries for no reason. most of these countries already have tariffs against the USA, so fair is fair and other countries have a vested interest like Mexico and Canada allowing illegals to flood in. put tariffs on them and maybe they'll stop allowing illegals to cross over

[Syntosi]

You are missing the point. If foreign products has to increase the price then consumers, who buys these products, has to pay more. And if they chooses to buy domestic products instead of imported ones then they will have to pay their price which was generally speaking higher than what cheap shit from China used to cost. That is an increase in the price that consumers pay for. You can try defend it as protecting domestic companies and jobs but that comes at the cost of increased prices, not lower ones.

As for deporting illegals. If you kick them out, and everyone in USA already has a job, who is it that will work those jobs in the future? There isent this untapped pool of labor that you can free up to work all these new jobs. The biggest problem in Americas economy is that there simply is not enough people to fill all the job slots. There are way more jobs than there are people and removing even more people is not going to help that one bit.

[Opinion Owner]

@Syntosi without tariffs, foreign products and domestic products of the same exact brand cost exactly the same within the same company. employers are the ones who set the wages for their employees but the prices won't change unless a tariff is implemented which only affects the same product that was made from overseas.

"who is it that will work those jobs in the future?"

I don't know... perhaps the next generation of young Americans. America has plenty of people but not enough jobs, at least not the ones most important. too much competition in the work force is driving down the wages of all workers to the point where welfare is a lot more desirable than work

[Syntosi]

What on earth are you talking about? Foreign products are wildly different from domestic products not only because of things such as extra logistical problems but also extra administrative processes such as import controls. Imported products have inherently a disadvantage over domestic products even without tariffs. You need to employ a lot of people and pay a lot of extra costs to import something as opposed to produce it domestically.

And again, if domestic products can't lower their price to compete with foreign products then that means customers have to pay a higher price to buy domestic products than they used to do for foreign imports.

As for young Americans entering the workforce, they will have to replace old Americans who exit it. Unless you have a growing population then there will be just as many people exiting the workforce due to age as there are young people entering it. And for your record, there are fewer people entering the workforce today than there is existing in the future and that is even ignoring how Trump wants to toss out millions of people who had a job.

Again, America does not have enough people to man its entire economy. That said, maybe that is what you want. Supply and demand means that if you strangle the American economy by taking workers out of it then wages will indeed go up. For example, the wage in Russia has skyrocketed ever since Putin sent all those people to die in Ukraine. However, there is a cost for doing this because it completely ruins your economy. Russias economy is completely screwed. Maybe not the best thing to strive towards if you ask me.

[Opinion Owner]

@Syntosi no a $20K Toyota Camry from China is no differently built than a $20K Toyota Camry from USA. difference is, the one from China has to pay a tariff and therefore they increase their price to compensate for the tariff. the USA one doesn't need one not to mention it gives money back into the pockets of American workers

domestic products don't need their prices lowered to compete when they can make of them and therefore sell more in the process. foreign products are the ones at a disadvantage because they can't make as many without suffering the consequences of the tariffs

America does have enough people and you speak as if less workers with wages going up is a bad thing. this means less people being taxed and allows families to survive on single incomes than needing to work multiple jobs. more couples/families also reduces demand for housing because houses are no longer occupied by singles and this further reduces housing prices

war in general ruins economies which is has nothing to do with less workers is why Trump is trying to avoid war as much as he can. well yeah spending millions of dollars on a nuke that gets used once with nothing in return after it blows up is obviously a waste of money. at least you can something in return for consuming food

[Syntosi]

If a 20k Toyota Camry from China is sold in USA for 15k and you increase the tariffs so that it costs 20k or more then you can no longer buy Toyota Camrys for 15k in USA anymore would you not agree? In other words, the price an American customer would have to pay for a Toyota Camry went from 15k to 20k+

And yes, less workers with wages going up is bad. That wage going up is not because those workers are more productive nor that the economy is growing. Its a sign that the economy is shrinking and corporations fight for the last remaining workers. It means shit is about to hit the fan and the country is in big trouble.

[Opinion Owner]

@Syntosi no that's not how tariffs work. the imported Toyota from China is the one paying the tariff, let's say $20K for the car and an extra $10K for the tariff hence that Camry would be $30K to the consumer. the domestic Toyota from USA will still remain at $20K because they are not paying the tariff. Toyota CEO would have to be stupid to increase the price of the domestically made Camry. given the choice between a $30K foreign-made Camry versus a $20K domestic-made Camry, consumers would prefer the domestic one

wages and productivity is never a bad thing especially when there are less taxes to collect. instead of paying 10 employees $25 per hour, an employer can pay 5 employees $50 per hour which is much better. the other 5 employees can find another job that pays higher wages because there's more money to distribute.

the economy not growing is due to redundancy in "jobs". we don't need 500,000+ Twitter/Reddit moderators whose "job" is to play online god. we do need 500,000+ construction workers to help with the infrastructure. cutting down on those 500,000 to 250,000 in each field will yield better results for all workers when there's vacancy.

corporations fighting for the last remaining workers puts the onus on those corporations and gives the power back into the workers which is a good thing. there's so many times when potential employees are treated as disposable in job interviews. now it's the other way around when it's companies who have to prove themselves to the worker

[Syntosi]

But you said it yourself. People were buying the imported Toyota and they were doing it because it was cheaper. If its no longer cheaper then people will have to pay for the more expensive product and they will have less money in their pockets.

I also find it funny how you suggest that corporations should hire fewer people to do the same amount of work or that we dont need X employees because you dont understand things like content or community moderation. And yes, if corporations fight for the last remaining workers that does give more power in contract negotiations to the workers but it also means that corporations can't be as productive.

If 10 companies are fighting to employ you, then 9 companies are going to be short a worker and not be able to produce their products or provide their services. As such there are going to be 9 fewer companies that contribute to the national economy and the value of your money and the tax income to your government shrinks.

[Opinion Owner]

@Syntosi the imported Toyota is the same price (minus the tariff) as the domestic Toyota. adding the tariff makes the imported Toyota more expensive. just because China uses cheap labor doesn't necessarily make their products cheaper. they just pay their employees less and keep the rest of the money for themselves. it's foul practice yet it happens outside the USA. in the USA, employees are expected to be paid full wage which is a good thing.

but that's beside the point. tariffs are there to ensure jobs remain domestically rather than get shipped overseas. the money made from Toyota in USA gets put back into the pockets of American workers, not Chinese workers.

some corporations do need to hire less workers and distribute them to other fields. there's literally videos of Google employees bragging about how easy their jobs are. there's a reason why Elon Musk fired a bunch of people at Twitter and hopefully him and Vivek will cut down government waste.

corporations will hire the best of the best and still remain productive. most people who go to work don't even do any work and corporations are kept afloat by the few hard working employees.

those other 9 companies can go find 9 other available workers to work for them and get the best of the best. employees need the money and employers need the employees. an excess in either direction is never a good thing either way except we don't have an excess of available jobs as they belong to illegals right now over our citizens who are homeless in the streets

[Syntosi]

... Seriously, what do you think the value of a product is? A Toyota does not have an inherent value, it is a combination of what it takes to produce them and what people are willing to buy them for. If you pay the workers less in wage then that is going to make the product cheaper. If you buy cheaper materials then that is going to make the product cheaper etc.. A Toyota made in China using Chinese slave labor IS cheaper than an exact copy made using expensive American labor in USA. That is literally how the free market is supposed to work.

Also, if those 9 other companies could just find another worker to hire instead of you then there isn't a worker shortage and you will not get a higher wage. The only way you can get a higher wage from a worker shortage is if those 9 other companies can't get another worker which means they HAVE to overpay you or otherwise get nothing.

Dude, I am seriously worried about your education. You dont appear to understand the fundamentals for how our society functions at all. Why are you this clueless?

[Friendlybro79]

The tarrifs would have to be like 200% for them to be too high. 25% is not enough to make a company spend roughly 60 percent in higher wages, benefits, rent or property prices here etc. It's easier to say if it cost me 10 dollars before the tariff and now the same import costs 12.50. I'll just charge my customer the increase. It costs them nothing to pass it to the customer and it's still cheaper than building some things here. I for one am willing to spend a little more for American made, and I do when I can. Many Americans don't make enough to spend more on goods. I hope there are some examples people can actually make. Just saying it's cheaper to build here than pay the tarrifs isn't enough data for me.

If you could say acme Inc is going to stopakimg tires in Mexico they would have to incur these increases in wages, and overhead by paying more for American workers, benefits rent. Insert numbers not just feelings.

[Opinion Owner]

@Syntosi "If you pay the workers less in wage then that is going to make the product cheaper"

not necessarily if the employers are abiding by the code of ethics in paying employees for what they're worth. car brands in particular all need to meet a certain standard regardless of how much the employees are being paid. since America can't abolish cheap slave labor in foreign countries, they can punish those companies via tariffs

"If you buy cheaper materials then that is going to make the product cheaper etc." except companies build all their specific brands with specific products. a Toyota Camry in China isn't suddenly gonna be made out of wood and mud because it's "cheaper" c'mon now

"A Toyota made in China using Chinese slave labor IS cheaper than an exact copy made using expensive American labor in USA" no, companies don't just change their prices after deciding to create jobs in other countries. by that logic, Americans citizens should just move to China and live there instead of living in the USA

like I said before, we don't have a shortage of available workers. there's homeless people in the streets getting overlooked for illegals. those 9 other companies have plenty of people to look to hire. as far as me getting overpaid, that's a good thing

"Dude, I am seriously worried about your education. You don't appear to understand the fundamentals for how our society functions at all. Why are you this clueless?"

tariffs are implemented on imported goods, something the American consumer can avoid. why do you insist on gaslighting the American public that they are the ones paying the price when they're not. even regardless of prices, the whole point is to keep jobs in America and not have them shipped overseas in favor or cheap labor unless you have a better solution to ensure companies will keep jobs available for Americans rather than the Chinese or Mexicans

[DrPepper12]

American made is useless without union made

[Opinion Owner]

@DrPepper12 yeah no shit tariffs would be useless if all the companies decided to build in America instead of China, Mexico or any other country and no longer rely on imports thus keeping jobs for Americans who can then get paid the full wage instead of cheap foreign labor

[Syntosi]

What code of ethics do you suppose employers would follow? There is no code of ethics in capitalism or the free market. There is also no "worth" to people or their work independent of what you sell their produce for. As for the "certain standards" that car manufacturers have to abide to, they are set and enforced by the government and imported cars are also subject to them. In other words, cars imported from China fulfills the standards set by the US government.

It is entirely within the right of the government to for example not import products made by slave labor or such. Just like it is entirely within the right of the government to allow it to be imported. The fact that China uses slave labor and USA still imports ill leave for you to come to terms with on your own time.

And you are very much confused about the cost of materials. Iron mined in China is going to be a lot cheaper than Iron mined in USA. It is all just iron though. The difference in cost does not have to be in what material it is or what quality it is but rather what it costed to produce it and what customers are willing to pay for it. If China mines iron using cheap labor and then makes a car using that cheap iron then that car is going to be cheaper to produce than a similar car using expensive American iron and made by expensive American workers.

And yes, USA has a labor shortage. Your economy is already employing millions of illegal immigrants just to fill out your economy and yet there is countless industries that can't find enough employees. Even homeless people are for the most part working, granted they are earning so little that they can't get a home for their wage which is a different problem.

The fact remains. Tariffs increase the cost of products and USA can't really employ more people in its economy. That is not the problem that USA is having.

[Syntosi]

If you want to uplift Americans then you dont need more jobs, you need Americans to stop working low paying jobs and start working more profitable jobs. In other words, less farmers and more scientists or doctors and such. If you have not noticed then people like farmers has been bitching and whining about going out of business for decades now. Why? Because its not a very profitable industry. Their work does not generate a lot of new wealth for the economy.

But America is wealthy. It can get other people in other countries to do these jobs for them. If you have Chinese farmers or whatever produce your corn then you dont have to waste American workforce to do it and the American workers can instead get an education and work at something that actually produce value.

You appear to think that this is somehow exploiting USA by having China "Take our jobs" when in reality it is USA that is exploiting China by making them do the dirty and worthless work.

[Opinion Owner]

@Syntosi companies are independent of their country of origin. if Elon Musk wanted to move Tesla, SpaceX etc. outside of USA completely, he absolutely could. companies are the ones who set the standards, not the country itself. USA can't just choose not to import foreign products by the same company that is also making domestic products. the difference is when you choose to buy a Toyota from China, the money goes back to the cheap labor as opposed to you buying a Toyota from USA that goes back to the American worker

China using cheap iron is malpractice and undermines the standards set by the company yet it doesn't stop them from setting their price to the same as that of the same American made product

the millions of illegals are a complete excess with many of them living in free housing and luxury hotels off welfare paid by our taxpayers money. homeless people are absolutely not working. they're on the streets begging for money. that's how they're surviving

tariffs only increase the cost of products that the tariffs were implemented on. Trump never said anything about putting a tariff on American made goods because it makes no sense to do so.

[Opinion Owner]

@Syntosi "less farmers and more scientists or doctors"? do you look down on these type of jobs? farmers aren't "bitching" and "whining" about going out of business. it's the government continuously trying to undermine them and farming is a more important job than elitist blue-collar jobs who use appeal to authority to justify their "superiority"

yeah sure let the Chinese be in complete control over our food so they can get the rest of the USA to bend our knees to them? what next? let them control our electricity and water too? ah yes get an education... because racking up thousands of dollars of student loan debt for a useless gender studies degree allows you to actually produce value... amirite?

USA is exploiting China? how? by shipping our jobs overseas to them? but letting them control all the supply chains? I'm sure the Democrats love using cheap Chinese labor over giving jobs to our homeless, oh wait, they already do which is why they lost the election.

[Syntosi]

Yeah, this conversation is going nowhere fast. Simply put, you are too far gone and have no idea how nations or economies work. Fact remains that about 50% of homeless people have jobs which is A LOT for people who can't even afford a home. The rest are pretty much just people who can't be employed due to things like criminal records, injuries or mental disorders. You are not going to be able to squeeze out any new workers out of that group.

Likewise the illegals are working jobs. You can think they are "excess" but they still contribute to the economy and if you remove them then that "excess" in the economy will also disappear since there is no one to fill it.

Tariffs increase the cost because of simple supply and demand. The same amount of people buying from a smaller supply not to mention that you removed the cheapest products so the price can only go up.

And no, I am not looking down on farmers. I am simply stating fact. Farming is not a profitable job. But sure, lets have a "free market" and cut off the farming subsidies that they entirely rely upon to not go bankrupt. That way we can save about 30 billion dollars, give or take depending on the year. But yeah, if they are so important then they should be able to earn their own profits without government handouts. I am telling you they can't, but you do not appear to believe me so have it your way.

[Opinion Owner]

@Syntosi yeah it's too far gone because you insist on gaslighting me that domestic prices will go up with tariffs when we've had tariffs in previous governments before and nobody was complaining. tariffs only increase the price of imports. nothing more. domestic companies are not obligated to increase their prices.

farming not being profitable is thanks to prior governments selling them out and shipping jobs overseas while trying to steal their property through loopholes or raising taxes on them. farmers make more than enough food it can be used for foreign aid. it's profitable when socialist governments aren't trying to destroy them like they tried that shit in communist China

[Syntosi]

Of course people have been upset about tariffs in the past. For example:
en.wikipedia.org/.../Smoot%E2%80%93Hawley_Tariff_Act
and
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariff_of_Abominations

Also supply and demand is a thing. Tariffs lowers the supply while the demand is the same. This results in prices going up.

And no, farming has never been particularly profitable outside of things like farming plants for drugs. It is not profitable in USA, its not profitable in Europe and its not profitable anywhere else either. The reason why its common in places like China is because they can still be considered "well off" with a tiny profit but by American standards its not worth the time and effort.

[Opinion Owner]

@Syntosi funny how nobody was complaining about Biden using Trump's tariffs in his administration instead of abolishing it. even more funny how nobody was complaining when other countries slap tariffs on USA

tariffs don't lower supplies. supplies are independent from the tariffs. companies are responsible for their supplies. prices going up only hurts the companies because no one will buy their stuff

USA, Europe and other western nations are literally the bitches of countries that control their food supplies. lol farming not being profitable yet profitable in other countries. ever thought that if we could produce our own food we wouldn't have to bend the knee to other countries unless that's what you want. "American" standards is literally the Democrat Party taxing the shit out of properties, increasing the price of energy and making it more difficult to live overall. it's not like city folk are doing so much better, oh wait, they're not when most people are living paycheck to paycheck

[Syntosi]

Part of the reason why people were not upset about Bidens tariffs is because they were used sparingly and compensated for with government handouts and investments domestically. Trump does not use it sparingly and he is not planning to mitigating the consequences. Also it does not really matter if other countries slap tariffs on USA. It is the consumers in their own country that pays the cost after all so it does not really harm American businesses that much.

The supply is the total amount of SOMETHING in the economy. If you are importing cars from China as an example then that is included in the supply of cars in USA. If you then stop importing cars into USA then the supply of cars available in USA is lower. In an oversimplified way "Supply = Domestic production + Imports" Remove the imports and you remove part of the supply.

And name me one developed country which has a profitable farming industry. Ill wait.

[Opinion Owner]

@Syntosi or people were not upset about Biden's tariffs due to TDS. the fact some people have the audacity to be pissed at Trump for the border speaks volume, let alone upset at tariffs. Trump does use tariffs sparingly and using it as a threatening tool. other countries are already willing to bend the knee to avoid them.

what is lost from imports can be made up for by being produced domestically. it's a win-win for both the American worker and the American consumer. we're not obligated to import from China when we an make our own.

depends if you regard Brazil and India as developed countries or not. doesn't matter either way because farming will always be more important to a society than white-collar office jobs you consider to be superior

[Syntosi]

Using blanket tariffs, even as a "threat", is not using it sparingly. Also I dont know any other country that is taking Trump seriously. They remember his last presidency and they remember how easy it was to manipulate him. Furthermore, what exactly did Trump do on the border again? Because aside from wasting money I can't tell if anything actually changed.

As for boosting domestic production. How? America has maxed out its workforce. Even if you built factories and such to replace imports there would not be enough people to work them.

And no, I do not consider India and Brazil to be developed countries and farmers in those countries still dont make much money. Just because they have A LOT of farmers does not mean that each individual farmer are more productive.

Again, farmers in developed countries can barely break even and yet they have to work incredibly hard for it. Their work simply does not add a lot of value to the economy as compared to literally anything else. A burger flipper has a greater impact on the economy than a farmer does.

[Opinion Owner]

@Syntosi no one is taking Trump seriously? yet then why all this talk about Trump being a dictator and threat to democracy? seems like people want to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to Trump.

if America truly did max out it's workforce there'd be no unemployment rate but we both know this is not true. that's not even covering undocumented illegals on welfare

farming not being productive in western countries is a failure of the west but hey as long as the ladies on The View get paid a lot to spread feminist propaganda, then it's a good thing right?

only the top people in developed countries are the ones breaking even. the wealth gap between the rich and poor has always been vast in every country. lol a burger flipper relies on the farmer or he/she has no job in the first place. you do realize that food is a human need, right?

Trump kept the border secure. that's what he did but this isn't about the border but TDS double standards where it's ok for Obama, Biden, Kamala to do it but not Trump. tariffs are one such example of this fake outrage

[Syntosi]

Trump is president over USA. He is primarily a threat to USA. Leaders in Germany or China or whatever other country is not really going to be majorly concerned about what Trump can do against them in particular. As said previously, this is not the first time Trump has become president, if you doubt what I say then just go back and look at how they treated him.

They quickly figured out that if you bribed him with stuff or money such as booking all the rooms in one of his hotel for a while to funnel money into his pockets then you can pretty much get his cooperation for anything at Americas expense. Likewise when foreign leaders actually got together to cooperate or make plans for the future they simply either ignored that Trump was in the room or just did not invite him in the first place. While Trump was president the nation of USA kind of became a non-factor for the rest of the world. It was kind of sad to see Trump sitting by himself while the rest of the world leaders were talking about important matters actually.

And no, there would always be unemployment. People who dont want to work. People who can't work. People who are just taking a break or can't find a job they want. People with major disabilities etc.. There is always going to be a section of people that is either newly unemployed or can't be employed. USA's unemployment numbers are low because going any lower would be an issue in and of itself such as forcing people to work against their will AKA slavery.

[Syntosi]

You can think it is the fault of the west for why farming is unprofitable if you want, does not change the current situation. The more people you put into farming jobs the weaker your economy will be. The fact remains that a burger flipper creates more value when turning ingredients into fast food than a farmer does by producing raw food. A big mac costs like what, 4.5 dollars? Have not been to McDonald in forever. The ingredients that McDonald use to to make a big mac costs like 70 cents. By making that big mac the worker produced more than 6 times the value of the raw resources.

I also dont think its particularly controversial that the farmer produced all the ingredients that a burger flipper uses, but that is not all because the burger flipper does not get raw corn or milk. They get processed foods like cheese, bread and burger patties which means there is yet another worked in between the farmer and burger flipper.

Both the person processing the raw food into ingredients and the farmer combined only produced 70 cents value for each 4.5 dollar big mac that a burger flipper makes. One is a lot more efficient at producing value than the other. Are you beginning to see the problem here?

If you can simply import the cheap ingredients from someone else and have 3 burger flippers instead of 1 farmer, 1 food processor and 1 burger flipper then USA's GDP AKA its economy would skyrocket.

And no, Trump did not keep the border secure, whatever that even means.

[Opinion Owner]

@Syntosi "The more people you put into farming jobs the weaker your economy will be"

if this were the case, then why are illegals sent to do farming and blue-collar jobs instead of white-collar jobs? surely we would need less farmers according to you to prevent weakening the economy

"The fact remains that a burger flipper creates more value when turning ingredients into fast food than a farmer does by producing raw food"

and where does the burger flipper get their ingredients from? from themselves? no of course not. and even in regards to fast food being cheaper, guess who they're teamed up with? yeah big pharma and medical industry that takes full advantage of America's health crisis. what they lose in fast food, they make up for it in medical bills. so because a burger is cheaper, somehow there isn't a catch to this, is there?

"3 burger flippers instead of 1 farmer, 1 food processor and 1 burger flipper"

how are any of the 3 burger flippers supposed to get their ingredients to begin with? do they grow their own vegetables? do they slaughter their own meat? yeah, no they don't do any of that. farmers do. if we go by your theory and eliminate all farmers which would hypothetically improve the economy according to you, how do you think society would go?

[Syntosi]

Illegals are "sent" to do farming because farmers do not make enough money to employ Americans for a wage that they would consider worthwhile. Again, farmers are hovering above bankruptcy thanks to government handouts, they can't function without cutting corners such as hiring cheaper labor.

And where does burger flippers get their ingredients from? Literally anywhere. You are not limited to domestic production, no matter how much you want to pretend you are. Case in point, Mexico is exporting about 17 billion dollars worth of grain and fruits each year into USA and its going to keep increasing.

And you can complain about fast food "teaming up" with big pharma or whatever, I simply used it as an example of the value added by processing food as opposed to what farmers makes. Same is true for everything else, the beginning of a logistical chain usually makes the least money. Miners, lumberjacks, fishermen etc.. Their profits only makes up a small fraction of what the end product is actually sold for which means that other people in the chain are making far more money and responsible for far more of the growing economy.

[Opinion Owner]

@Syntosi yet according to you, the more people you put into farming the weaker the economy becomes thus putting illegals into farming weakens the economy. farming has been consistently screwed over by the government taxing the shit out of them

ah yes, burger flippers can get their ingredients from foreign imports that are already gonna be tariffed rather than get their ingredients from American farmers. what a great idea going forward

the beginning of the logistical chain produces in massive numbers and make their money via quantity. the end of the logistical chain produces in smaller numbers and make their money via quality. neither is far more responsible for the economy than the other. how much wood from a tree actually goes into making a table or a chair? how much wood do you think gets wasted?

[Syntosi]

Oh, I do not advocate putting illegals on the farms, I want them to have gainful employment. That said, the current state of USA includes illegals on farms. If you want to maintain the status quo then dont change that. If you remove them then USA will have a smaller economy. If you move them to work more valuable jobs then you get a bigger economy than today. Its all very simple really. And no, farming is not screwed over by taxes. Again, the government is giving billions in handouts to farmers every year just to keep them afloat.

And why would you tariff ingredients? Like seriously? Are tariffs the solution to all your life's problems?

Bringing up that farmers "make their money via quantity" is just reaffirming that what they are doing is not that valuable. They could be sitting at the other end of the logistical chain and use the money they gain from making money through quality to buy far more raw resources than they could produce themselves.

[Opinion Owner]

@Syntosi ah yes, when illegals aren't taking "invaluable" farming jobs, they'll take over other more valuable jobs that would've gone to American citizens. what a great idea. removing illegals doesn't shrink the economy. less workers = less taxes and higher wage increases and no we don't need more illegals working in "valuable" jobs whatever that is supposed to be.

farmers have to pay a shit load of property tax not to mention the amount of energy they use is insane and the high energy prices under the Biden administration ain't helping

as stated before, tariffs ensure jobs stay in America. companies desire the American consumer money more than others hence it's a strong bargaining chip. companies could care less if Zambia, Panama or Bhutan won't buy from them. countries like USA is a whole different matter.

since when is food not valuable? can you survive without food? obviously not. but a white collar job is more valuable? farmers would make the same amount of money in totality as the food processor in totality. less quality + high quantity = less quantity + high quality

[Syntosi]

Less workers = Less work performed = Less value generated = Less economy = Lower wages

Farmers pays less tax than normal businesses and yet they still complain about taxes? Pathetic. They complain about high energy prices which is impacting literally everyone else as well? Pathetic. Its almost like other industries dont have an issue turning a profit and paying for these "insanely high energy costs and taxes" yet farmers are permanently struggling.. as if they are not making money.. as opposed to literally everyone else.. so why are they still farming?

And lets consider what a free market actually means. In a free market, if you have money then you can acquire any goods or service that you want. In other words, USA who is very rich can just fucking buy its food somewhere else. Also dont come here and talk about quality. The quality of American grown and processed food is fucking embarrassing, if not outright deadly. Gone are the days where the FDA actually was allowed and funded to do its job to protect the quality of American food.

[Opinion Owner]

@Syntosi less workers = less dead weight = more efficiency = more value generated = more economy = more wages. this is basic supply and demand

farmers own huge acres more than most businesses and pay a shit load of property tax and use more energy and pay more as a result but consumers don't care how much tax they pay or how much energy they use. they only want the food

yeah farmers are struggling thanks to government sellouts looking for imports instead

lol USA is in a deficit. the rich in America are vastly more rich than the broke despite a minority population

yeah no shit the food is deadly. that's why Trump assigned RFK Jr to tackle this issue. the FDA is corrupt and will be exposed if libs aren't gonna have a hissy fit over it

[Syntosi]

Hahahaha! More efficiency does not mean more value generated. When businesses talk about becoming more efficient, they usually mean that they lowered their costs more than they lowered their production. If you want to have insane efficiency then just have 1 single worker but choose only the most productive worker in the whole country. Just because he is literally the most efficient does not mean that he will produce more than the rest of the current workforce combined.

And I am not going to listen to any sob stories about farmers paying property taxes on the land that is producing them income. That is literally the purpose of taxes, to tax the things that produces value. Just like any other business. If farmers can't even pay off their property tax, by using the property to earn money, when the tax is the lowest of any form of property and the farmers getting subsidies, then perhaps they should just go fucking bankrupt already because they obviously suck at farming.

And do you even know what a deficit is? It has nothing to do with the wealth distribution between the poor and the wealthy.

And who do you think is making all that deadly food? Its the fucking farmers and the food processors. It has nothing to do with the FDA or the government somehow MANDATING it to be bad for you. The free and UNREGULATED market is doing it for PROFIT.

[Opinion Owner]

@Syntosi that's not the meaning of efficiency. efficiency is having the best ROI limiting as much waste as possible. if the rest of the individual members of the combined workforce are as efficient as a single efficient worker, then the efficiency is even higher but that's only a big "if"

it's governments like the Biden/Harris administration raising taxes that makes it harder for farmers to sustain themselves while you have illegals and NEETs stuck on welfare. do you even know how big farms are compared to regular houses?

yes I know what a deficit is and we're currently in one with all the wasteful spending the government is doing while generating no near the amount of revenue

nothing to do with the FDA? yeah I guess it's not the fault of cops who turn a blind eye to crime. perhaps if the government wasn't trying to screw them over at every turn, then they wouldn't even consider taking shortcuts for profit to stay alive. ever thought about that?

[Syntosi]

Yes, ROI. Return on investment. If I hire 1 worker and he produces 100 products and then I hire a 2nd worker and they only produce 50 then the rate of return is higher if I only hire one but the total output is higher when I hire two. As such you have two choices here. Either you have an efficient workforce where you only keep the ones that work hard, or you have the biggest economy where you are producing the most value. They are not the same thing.

And farmers have been struggling since forever, and that is WITH government assistance both lowering their taxes and giving them handouts. Farming simply is not a profitable industry in a developed economy. Also, it does not matter how many times you try to emphasis how BIG farmland is. That land is what makes farmers their money, the larger they are the more money the SHOULD be making. If they can't even pay taxes on the land then they are obviously unproductive and you just proved my point.

Lastly, do you even know what capitalism is? Capitalism is all about finding shortcuts and cutting corners. Its not even about them "staying alive". Corporations have a literal legal responsibility to their shareholders to make the most money that they theoretically can. That means that if they can make more money by putting sawdust into your bread then they are legally obliged to do so. Failing to make the most money is literally illegal and the corporation can be sued by their shareholders as a result.

Do you seriously think that they would just "play nice" if you took away their regulations? Are you completely insane?

[Opinion Owner]

@Syntosi hiring more workers means having to pay them more and ain't feasible if the revenue generated hardly exceeds the amount being paid to them. keeping the ones to work hard should be the goal. why keep workers around who hardly do any work? the worker who produces 50 items still gets paid as much as the worker who produces 100 items. do you suppose keeping those 2 workers and hiring another 200 workers who can only produce 1 item each is better? 202 workers producing 350 items sounds like an efficiency economy, right?

taxes aren't being lowered. what are you on about? farmers get their money from the food they produce on the land. the land itself doesn't generate wealth for them and they still get taxed from it

yeah and no one has to buy the bread with sawdust in it. corporations can go broke if they want to do that when consumers avoid buying from them. capitalism isn't a one-way street

they would "play nice" if the government isn't constantly trying to screw them over. do you not think economic laws and policies have an effect on how people operate their businesses?

[Gold618]

Under Trump, the US won't need Canadian gas and oil, because new fields in the US will be opened up. "Drill baby drill", as Sarah Palin first put it so eloquently.

So there! :)

Stop with the scaremongering.

[DrPepper12]

We've been energy independent for quite some time already

[Gold618]

@DrPepper12 Then why is it so expensive?

[DrPepper12]

Supply & demand? Really? We don't control global energy market.

[Kelley1]

Trade wars are not good for the people but increases the money government receives and that may be good politics.

[overlord337645]

gonna be honest i think this will make relations with other countries such as Canada worse and trump has nothing to lose since its his second term so going to war over these things probably is not to big of an issue for him considering

[Dargil]

Only imports and product from Canada and mexico if they don't control their borders. And Chinese imports have huge margin structures the will tighten. And we will protect our industries from them

[DrPepper12]

Do the industries need protecting?

[Dargil]

@DrPepper12 protection and restoration.

[DrPepper12]

Not
Gonna
Happen

[Dargil]

@DrPepper12 That's really weak.

[DrPepper12]

Anyone who buys the bring the jobs back home bs is a mega moron. Never gonna happen

[DrPepper12]

MAGAs gonna MAGA!! Just remember, the leopards won't come for YOUR face...

[saraupstairs]

I can hardly wait for the jobs to come back.

[exitseven]

Buy American made goods to avoid tarrifs

[Lynx122]

American companies will raise prices as soon as foreign goods become more expensive. They're not as patriotic as you think XD

[Anonymous]

There really should be a way for Trump to force Canadian and Mexican companies to take the cost of the tariffs out of their profits and not pass the cost on to consumers.

[DrPepper12]

But there isn't so it's a STUPID IDEA!!!

[FunkyMonkee]

No, because that's bullshit. I'm not brainwashed by CNN.

[Anonymous]

yes i love inflation. i've had an erection the last 4 years as Biden's inflation, causing EVERYTHING to rise, really turned me on too.

[DrPepper12]

Inflation was worldwide wide. Did Biden cause that?

Inflation follows pandemics as a natural LAW of capitalism. ITS NEVER NOT HAPPENED!!

[Dongie]

I bet you are terribly wrong

[onedarkcloud]

I want what you are smoking!

[Anonymous]

Exactly

[Opinion Owner]

Americans who voted him in are too stupid to realize this.

[Anonymous]

Higher prices > wealth confiscations and genocide