Do you agree that the moral purpose of civilized society is to prevent the stronger from attacking and exploiting the weaker?

[goaded]

"This principle lies at the center of America’s founding documents: the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights. It’s also the core of the post- World War II international order championed by the United States, including the UN Charter — emphasizing multilateralism, democracy, human rights, and the rule of law."

"Trump’s blatant lawlessness will haunt America and the world — and civilization — for years to come."

Robert Reich

"We the people" have the power to ensure this ends as soon as possible. Know that Trump wants a violent response to his violence, not giving it to him is a weapon against him. Rather pathetically, ICE count being videoed as a violent attack on them so they can claim an increase in violence against them.

[purplepoppy]

I think there needs to be international effort to protect America from Trump. He's threatening more and more to cease Greenland which is a direct attack on Europe yet politicians here are still kissing his ass.

We need to send a large task force to protect Greenland with a clear message we may lose but were going to put a Hell of a lot of Americans in the grave, is it fucking worth it.

I think for all Trumps smarmy swagger he knows the American public hasn't the stomach for a real war.

[goaded]

"The French military published some images of its Extreme Cold training exercises that took place last month in the Alps with the caption “Besoin de renforts?", an explicit call that they are ready to help boost Greenland's defenses.

This follows the operational readiness training from the French Air Force in Canada and Greenland last year to improve polar capabilities."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sAOjR3WL_k

mastodon.online/.../115847258823567349

[purplepoppy]

Interesting. I read somewhere that the reason there's so much military activity here in Wales is the weather is shit. It trains soldiers to use the weather as a weapon. Being able to fight in a freezing storm gives you lot of advantages

[msc545]

I would very much appreciate an international effort to protect us from Trump. I don't think we here in the US are capable of this anymore.

[WindAtMyBack]

I didn't know you were a Trump supporter. The liberals sure as hell don't have any moral purpose.

Preventing the stronger bullies from taking advantage of the weak also means you should side with conservatives. Liberals are a bunch of bullies who push their agenda on everyone else and always get their way. They want what they want and don't give a shit what anyone else wants.

Don't even think about saying that's not true. The liberals have gotten their way so much, and gone so far left, that the very liberal hippies of the 60s and 70s would be moderate conservative today.

Everything you said means you should be conservative.

[AngryCarl2]

I think the moral purpose of civilised society is to promote the common good, but that should definitely be a part of it. But America considers itself apart from civilisation, which I agree is the case. Organisations like the UN and NATO were fine by America until they started serving other interests.

[goaded]

You mean doing what the US said it wanted.

[AngryCarl2]

Exactly.

[Gwendoline]

I remember taking a trip to Ellis Island. Its a museum now but immigrants had to go there before entering the US and often many were deported. I know many that had their visa applications turned down for minor criminal records such as smoking weed. I dont think its unlawful for a country to control its boarders and maintain immigration controls.

https://youtu.be/qpYhvuPUFJc?si=KOK9m_8CCGNW7IMP

[DryGermanGuy]

It's certainly a large part of it, for all its possible forms of attacking or exploiting.

[goaded]

Nobody's perfect, but for popular support, I think it's the right way to go.

[NathanDavis]

yeah...

but also worth to remember that we founded America on top of the bodies of the many culture and civilizations exterminated... then signed it such documents with their blood too

"morals"

[msc545]

America has been killing, pillaging, raping, and making war on others since its founding, and since before, actually, when the colonists got here. It's never been okay. It's never been decent. And it's never been moral.

[NathanDavis]

@msc545 and we called it our "Destiny" as well...

[msc545]

Yes, we did. Sometimes I think that what we're getting now is kind of our karmic just desserts or something.

[NathanDavis]

@msc545 at this point... I am just waiting for a true lesson in policy

it used to be Israel pushing it way too far, and Europe has had to put up with that... now it's the Trump administration trying to push it way too far

Europe, NATO, to be more precise... they're the only ones that can put a stop to this, and I am not talking about military power per se, but military logistics... the main reason why the USA is allowed and capable of managing half a dozen commands over the world is precisely because of the NATO alliance and every other country trusting this alliance...

and the moment they close that many doors and ports and routes to this nonsense... that's when it is going to really cost to a whole lot more to the people. the American people

the thing is... what if the European greedy warlords want a part of it too, and then.. it is going to be very interesting, quite interesting... because that's going to give Russia and China, and the Saudi no quarter to pretend anymore, it will be do or chicken out for them

I think we Americans are due for a very rude awakening... we're finding out who we truly are (as a whole, not talking about individuals here)

[msc545]

The thing is, we have long-range missiles or long-range airplanes these days that change the metrics a lot, I think. What do you think?

[NathanDavis]

@msc545 in theory, yes...

but these advanced missiles need ships or submarines, and these ships need aircraft to guard them... and all of these need satellites, ships need ports, aircraft need routes and airports... all of them need tankers to-refuel, there are towers and radars

all of this relies on a very expensive and convoluted network of base-technology that the USA is not able to handle alone... it needs NATO for that, and it also needs the cooperation of many other nations

and this network is vulnerable as well... it can be jammed, and it all can be closed in one go if the European nations decide not to cooperate anymore and that's when it will be incredible challenging and expensive for the USA to do it all alone and there's no guarantee that it would even be possible

[NathanDavis]

and the second part is repair... and software technology, replace...

the USA cannot repair anything without China, it cannot build more without China... and a lot of the modern technology was built by European companies as well, at least in part

the USA has a lot of military weaponry yes... but it is a limited amount

if you remember that ONE time in which Iran threw a whole bunch of old rockets over Israel... and Israel burned through 20 to 30% of the USA stockpile

and that was not even a full-on war... and that was just one country

[msc545]

Well, you're not wrong, but I think this is why we invented drones, or at least the Chinese did.

[NathanDavis]

@msc545 drones... all of them, they do have their limitations as well as their own set of logistics involved

and there's also... as you very well might know and understand better than most people... the psychological factor

among all of the ranks in the military, defense and such... there are and there's going to be too many of them who are not willing to do something like this, and many of them will refuse to do so

it would take only one of them to sabotage and stop an entire operation on either side, now... going after someone like Maduro is one thing, Maduro has 80% of Venezuela against his dictatorship, so for the people in the US military to agree to be part of this clandestine operation is a lot "easier" to face and live with... but going against allies like NATO is completely different and totally uncalled for

especially among the Special Forces of the USA who are often training among other NATO members and so many other nations, and those bonds do matter, these are not as easy to betray... not as easy as to just conk out a dictator like Maduro

[msc545]

Agreed

[Sal_Monella]

The moral purpose of our civilized society is to prevent foreign and domestic enemies, such as Leftists, from attacking and exploiting US Citizens. President Trump is succeeding. Don't you agree?

[goaded]

Why would anyone agree with calling half the population of the country an enemy?

[Sal_Monella]

Why do democrats do that? Please explain.

[goaded]

They don't. You just did. "domestic enemies, such as Leftists", remember?

[Sal_Monella]

I guess I've forgotten.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

lol. "Civilization" has always been about the strong conquering and taking whatever they want. You must not have done very well in world history class.

[Ariesman81]

I think once we round up all the criminals and fraudsters we'll deport them to Germany. You all seem to like giving people free stuff, it'd be a good fit.

[msc545]

That is a moral purpose, but one that is almost never fulfilled.

[beefcakebradybatson]

Yes, which is why America is horrendously immoral.