Guys, Does gender bias create a glass ceiling, or is it the result of choices that women make?

Question

Jordan Peterson said, I've worked very intensely with a large population of female lawyers, usually partners at large law firms very successful women usually very attractive very intelligent extraordinarily conscientious and the sort of people who were outstanding in high school, then outstanding as undergraduates, then aced law school, then did their articling perfectly, and then became Associates and eventually entered the partner stream in a large law firm and then became partners.

A huge proportion of them wake up around 30, somewhere between 30 and 32, and notice their 60 hour weeks and the incredibly competitive environment that they happen to be in, and the fact that the demands of their career are only going to accelerate as they move forward. I mean, they're going to make a lot of money, but the demands on their time of their career are only going to accelerate as they move forward. And they decide quite rapidly that that's maybe not what they want, and the reason for that is they also would like to have a life they'd like to have a relationship that they could attend to and they'd like to have children and the truth of the simple truth of the matter is that it's very difficult to have a truly high-end career and have an important relationship and have children.

HawkPerception · Accepted Answer

There is no glass ceiling. Women can aim and get as high as they want in the rat race nowadays (in Western society anyways). Especially with DEI initiatives nowadays (which I think is nonsense), which actually encourage women in certain roles.

It's proven that men are more resilient to stress due to testosterone acting as a buffer. It's proven that men tend to have more assertiveness and are less agreeable, which makes it more likely for them to get promotions. But no one is discriminating against women in the west nowadays. No one wants a lawsuit against them.

Here's an interesting fact from AI:

Despite legal advancements ensuring equal employment rights, women often continue to pursue similar, traditionally female-dominated fields (healthcare, education, administration) due to a mix of deep-seated social conditioning, the "leaky pipeline" effect in male-dominated industries, and the persistent, disproportionate responsibility for caregiving and domestic labor.
Key factors influencing this, according to studies and research, include:

Socialization and Cultural Factors: Long-standing societal norms often encourage women toward caretaking or nurturing roles, while men are often encouraged toward higher-paying, technical, or leadership positions.
The "Second Shift" and Flexibility: Women are more likely to seek jobs that offer flexibility (e. g., part-time, remote) to accommodate caregiving responsibilities for children or elders, which are often not shared equally with partners.
The "Leaky Pipeline": Even when entering male-dominated fields (like STEM), women may feel pushed out or unsupported due to workplace culture, leading to higher turnover rates.
The Gendered Wage Gap: Jobs often held by women tend to be undervalued and paid less, which can create a cycle where women are concentrated in lower-paying,, traditionally female-dominated sectors.
Perception of Opportunities: While equality exists in law, subtle, modern forms of sexism or biases in hiring and promotion can still affect women’s career choices and advancements.

Even in countries with high levels of gender equality (such as in Scandinavia), there is often a noted trend where women and men still disproportionately select different fields of work, a phenomenon sometimes referred to as the "gender-equality paradox".

RavVid · Accepted Answer

Feminists made an early choice between average women and upper tier women and chose the later. Not many men make it into board either and you can say there is as much a glass ceiling for men as there is for woman.

There are bit more than 5000 board members of Fortune 500 companies with about a 60/40 male female ratio. They have maybe 6 million managerial roles. Maybe 0.08% make it.

It is a low probability for men, women, and trans. It is not worth disputing about.

At my pedestrian level it is always the case most women are out the door at 5 pm whilst quite a number of men are working back. Like it or not men have a different relationship to work than women do.

Men are more likely to live to work whilst women work to live. I have a ball working and my male work mates do too. Never noticed female work colleagues enjoying it as much as the guys do. Never seen women working as many hours as I do - 12 to 16 hour days.

People do make decisions as to how much effort they are going to put in to where they want to get.

As Peterson suggests that might around 30 or maybe 40 or 50 and think I'm pretty happy with the level I've got or I want to get to there. Then adjust effort accordingly. Women might well tailor down earlier - I think it is true.

DonaldDarko · Answer

Probably in a lot of cases or even most cases. Something is changing though or we wouldn't have a system where those women who are not even minded that way would even bother to get into a position like that in the first place. In the past you wouldn't have to have Peterson to explain all of that. Also it's important to realize that people like Peterson see modern society as a mistake and are highly motivated to move back to something like the 50s. Peterson doesn't just see female nature he can see human population decline as well and rightly lays it at the feet of things like feminism. Naturally he's highly motivated to change women's minds about having a career of any kind or doing anything except being mothers. He's that way with young men to, he grooms them to go and find a wife, get married, have children etc. He has ulterior motives, he's not going to care much about people who chose a different life who want careers especially women because they possess a uterus the thing he needs to save humanities ass from extinction. He and others like him know about female nature, and motivations. He can't figure why the furnace has gone out and he'll try and try to stoke it up again, to incite those instincts to make it work. What he's not thinking about and other conservatives like him are not thinking about is that all of this could be bigger than feminism and politics. It could also be the natural end result of having a brain such as humans possess. You're talking about an organism that builds space ships. That's different than an alligator. It's not going to be able to go about life the way an alligator can. Human's definitely have all those reptile instincts, just look at this web site. But the intellect isn't just going to go away, it's grown there just like the alligators teeth, you can't just pull them out and expect the thing to function normally. Peterson and others like him think women having careers is unnatural yet they still constantly want careers. That may not make sense until you look at how nature works. It's upheaval it's earth quakes, it's floods, asteroid impacts. These women go against their nature because that's how nature works. It demands rebellion, change, one thing morphing into another. Otherwise we'd all be insect like things floating around in a Cambrian sea. Nature doesn't care if you end up a childless cat lady and die alone. It doesn't care if humans are here today gone tomorrow. You will evolve or you will die. We're on the cusp of artificial wombs, AI parents and maybe that's where nature intends us to go. In the future less and less people will have traditional families and the children who are born will be less functional. Unless we adopt these technologies and genetic alteration as we see in nature then of course we could go extinct. It's silly to think otherwise.

Sal_Monella · Answer

Men are designed to fight wars and work very hard for very long hours. It's what men have been doing for millennia. Women are designed to bear and raise children and maintain the household and village. These very successful and capable women are working against type. It is satisfying for them when they are young to live the life of a man including a lot of casual sex.

But when they approach their 30s and beyond, they realize that it's becoming unfulfilling and that there was something missing in their lives and that thing that is missing is bearing and raising children and maintaining a household and village. So these women are far and away more likely to burn out. I am not making a sexist statement. I'm making a statement out of observation.

I read a book in the past, I can't remember the name of it, where women were referred to as The Old Broads. These are women that live their lives as traditional wives. My stepmother was one of them. These are women that run everything. They raise the children they run the household and they do all of the financial, vacation and social contact planning. They were the moral arbiter of the family and in a subtle way they told their husbands what to do. My stepmother made my father think he was the boss but she really was the boss.

June cleaver was one of these. She was all Rosy cheeked and full of smiles but also ran the house behind the scenes. This system existed in the United States for 100 years before things started to grind down. By the inventions of convenient household appliances and also the Advent of chemical birth control. Until that time, only men worked outside the home and after a brief career during the youngest years those women came home and did what traditional wives do.

Ever since those days, the system has continued to break down. And has given us what we have today which is social anarchy between men and women and women that have to have careers in order for the household to survive. At least, that's one man's opinion and I was back there.

blueonblack22 · Answer

When women (and anyone else who isn’t a white straight male) start using the Marxist phrases like “glass ceiling” it creates a psychological cop out that subconsciously (or even consciously) makes them underperform and sell themselves short at their careers

Then they start fixating on the victim complex and looking for “handouts” (DEI) which actually makes them more powerless because it keeps them dependent on a 3rd party “paternal” force (the government) vs. relying on their own abilities. It robs of them of their agency.

To make matters worse social engineering programs like DEI causes people to question the true qualifications of women & minorities who advance in their careers despite the fact they actually might be really good at their jobs. Not only is it inefficient and makes organizations less effective but it ultimately perpetuates more sexism and racism.

Also Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris didn’t lose their presidential bids because they are women. They lost because they both lacked charisma and were sh*tty candidates.

I am completely ready to vote for a woman if 1) her policies align with what I think is best for America 2) she does NOT use the “I’m a woman so that in itself makes me special bullsh*t”

Chazmatazz269 · Answer

Just like the wage gap, the glass ceiling is a myth created by feminists to excuse their incompetence and failures. Very few work as hard and sacrifice as much for their careers as men do. They can’t acknowledge that fact. So they pretend that they are doing as much or more than the men who outperform them and “the system” is just rigged against them. 100% nonsense.
The flip side of that coin is men who sacrifice their family life for a career that provides all of the necessities as well as the privileges and luxuries that their family demands. Then they wake up one day and mourn that they don’t know their own wife and kids. NOBODY gets to “have it all”. That’s the feminist lie that has women going through midlife crises the only men used to. You can have an exceptionally fulfilling private life or an exceptionally fulfilling career. If you want both, the necessary balance means having adequate relationships and work, but neither will be exceptionally fulfilling. If women had listened to men instead of other women, they wouldn’t have gotten themselves into this mess. The old adage has been around at least as long as feminism has, “Nobody regrets on their death bed having spent more time with their loved ones and less time at the office”. Men tell each other that hoping that the next generation won’t make those same mistakes. The problem is every generation of women and children demand more of those privileges and luxuries, and someone has to pay for it all. We’re still not in a place societally where anyone expects women to pay for everything. So that universal expectation falls entirely on men. Only women have the privilege of choice. Then they still blame men when they repeatedly make bad choices.

HighValue · Answer

Women often make bad life decisions, then try to blame men for it. Women past 30 have absolutely no value to a good quality man for a new relationship, especially if he wants to create/raise a family. Many women are upset that no matter how much money she makes and no matter how high up the corporate business ladder she climbs, it adds NO VALUE to her desirability. She actually spends years and lots of effort making herself LESS desirable by wasting her youth.

Most women are emotionally and mentally weak. They are not designed to handle a stressful work life and raise a family at the same time. Feminism has pushed women to be delusional and make them think they can handle and do what men can, but they CAN'T. Women are not on the same level as men in many ways, but until they admit that to themselves, millions of them will suffer because of their own ignorant life choices.

genericname85 · Answer

This topic is really old and boring in social science cause it's well researched and we know the answers. But feminists won't stop lying about the facts. The facts are: there's no glass ceiling. Women are just less likely to be crazy workaholics and more likely to favor child upbringing. That's literally all there is to it and I think that's a good thing looking at our population development. There used to be straight up oppression against women in times where women could literally not own credit cards. But that has been abolished a long time ago. by men by the way. Yes feminists hate that but men decided that society was oppressive for women and they decided to stop that. If women had the power to stop it, you couldn't claim they were oppressed.

Summeroflove · Answer

This depends on the woman there are very successful women who work hard, put the time in, and the effort and make it as far and father then the men…. It’s women who want equal opportunities without the responsibility’s that discriminate not only against men but also the percentage of competent hard working women.

They are narcissists they want all the benefits without anything that they dislike. The same goes for fake traditional women who want to stay home and bake bread…. But don’t want to actually do any work taking care of her kids, husband, and home. More sitting around and blowing the money. A easy fantasy life. They become resentful when motherhood and taking care of the house…. Isn’t as easy as they thought. But as much as they bitch. They never want to go back to work.

It makes women who are traditional doing it right look horrible.

jshm2 · Answer

Meh. Any type of ceiling, be it due to race, age, gender, nationality or other, tends to be mental more than cultural.

Sure it's annoying and for many, disheartening. But it should be seen as a challenge for those that really want the job. Often those that take on the challenge do things greater than the job itself.

Hence why the pay and status discrepancies can be atrocious and something to legally and morally challenge. They are also a sign of modern champions needed to step and change the mental norms.

Miristheiss · Answer

Yeah.

Common sense.

Those chose their path. They are too busy, argumentative, they are starting to age, their prime and fertility prime has passed, they have been sexually active for 12-15 years.

Only fools or simp men would ever look to them as long term wife material.

Those women can try a u-turn to find some simp to marry an old, workaholic, sexually ran through, travelling business trip boss babe. Lots of no standards simps. Men, look for virtuous biblical wives for a peaceful life and family. Not secular, feminist, sexual revolution, rebellious women who are selfish and super promiscuous.

Be WISE.

Hagar88 · Answer

Women's choices. Peterson is right. I know a lot of women that were on the career path in very high flying well paid careers that require a lot of education in serious fields. When they got to 30 they wanted kids, so either left their job or cut back on their hours, maybe got a job that they were overqualified.

So its really women choices. The streets are litteraly paved for them to succeed from elementary school to high school, in college recruitment and job recruitment.

sawno · Answer

Its a barrier that women have because of themselves, although it can create a glass ceiling if your not careful and implement systemic discrimination which some countries are doing. I'm against any form of DEI for that reason.

Ultimate thing is, women aren't as crazy about career as men are. The ones who are can make it. But most women want a sane work life balance, and that just won't land you at the top.

Tarifa · Answer

There is certainly a glass ceiling, but for the most part, it's down to cultural habits where women are expected to take care of children, or her elderly parents. A habit we've been trying to break in our own little family, where I have taken care of our baby daughter since the very start.

Theunfadeable · Answer

You mean the gender bias that gives women preference in hiring and promotions and mandates quotas for hiring women 😆😆😆 feminism is far from organic. It could not exist without all the federal money that props it up, by forcing companies to take part in shoehorning women into every industry possible.. I can’t think of anything more the government can possibly do to make it any easier for women to succeed in corporate America.

MrChinaski · Answer

I don't think the 'glass ceiling' as it was intended when coined in 1978 is still relevant to most modern corporate workplaces. What is clear is that women's career trajectories are significantly set back by taking time out to raise children; men that take extended periods off of career paths are also treated this way.

fivebyfour · Answer

I believe it does because women who get promoted are often considered to have only got the job because they are female, in spite of being qualified for the role, also women tend to have kids, which of course a career break, both sexes are often expected to cover their duties when they are off work in addition to their own tasks,,,

AgentG111 · Answer

Over the last 10 years I've seen more women rising to higher positions in certain companies than men. Personally I felt like the company was attempting to but them there to show more of a woke / BS gender deal.

I can honestly say from stand point those that were placed there maybe half actually could do the job or keep things moving forward in the correct way.

Sevenpointfive · Answer

i was in a company that would only hire women, POC, or homosexuals for a certain position. that was just that position! that was from corporate! i finally called them out when i noticed the general manager would only promote fat women. he was the only male and at the top. these were nasty women too! but they were loyalalists to him. it was a disgusting atmosphere and i am glad he's not doing well and the company went under.

foxsquirrell · Answer

It is the result that women make and their competence. If a women is as good as a man or better at a particular job, she will probably not be barred from occupying certain positions. Unless she has other intentions apart from work that will not make her so available or concentrated at work, such as kids!

msc545 · Answer

I think women simultaneously have a lot of confusion and a lot of expectations that never get fully fulfilled and they experience a lot of frustration and make very bad decisions very often.

slatyb · Answer

In my career as an engineer I've seen a fair bit of gender bias that has held women back, even though they were exceptionally competent, more competent than most of the men around them.

qwerty2469 · Answer

I work in a huge international corporation. I work with all woman and all my bosses and their bosses are woman. There is no glass ceiling. Only decisions we all make.

loveslongnails · Answer

ANY kind of bias creates a ceiling. Any kind. I don't understand how the bias question relates to your posting of what Peterson said?

Snakeyes7 · Answer

The glass ceiling is as debunkable as the wage gap. There are a near infinite number of reasons why someone didn't get promoted. Many of which are a result of that person's own doing, regardless of whether the person is aware of it or not.

beefcakebradybatson · Answer

Both.

Guys, Does gender bias create a glass ceiling, or is it the result of choices that women make?

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