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u 
Socialist who has in depth knowledge of Marx and agrees mostly with his view a key difference is I am cynical, his dumb side was his optimistic and lack of psychological understanding.
But I do agree on a more socialist society with direct democracy or more form of it, and less control of the people by elites, government ruled by it to doing things we never voted on.
To a democrat I can be seen as right winged despite not being so. Democrats to me are like those who say they've watched a popular show, pretend to know but don't. Along with fake socialists too.
While Conservatives are those who've seen a poster said that's bad but never bothered to watch any of it.
A lot have lost any form of nuance and maybe it was always that way tbh, but feels more today I don't know. Weird leftists who if read Marx would think hang on a moment these points agree with some of what the right is thinking... and would think Marx was conservative lol
You see some arguments from libertinism align with socialism, both do struggle with the fact of elites using the government for control of the masses. So while you'd think both contradict which they do but don't, but the thing is Libertarian is just wrote off by a lot of left as right winged.
So if we even agree on something, oh gosh it sounds like you must be a Maga supporter somehow, yet that's entire other can of worms. Anyone know the difference between republican and libertarian? It's vastly different.
And yes I've defended trump like once or twice but do I think highly of him, no way he's just another idiot a democrat? Who became republican? That's two of the worst things put together in my book. And ya know he's an elite right? I digress
The important part I align with what Marx proposed mostly and apply that to my thoughts, I don't care whether it comes across as right or left. I know it's left whether others do or not is their problem.
Also briefly on England it's a mess more than America at this point how absurd is that? Years ago I wouldn't of said that. So much so reform will win and when it does, hopefully they'll do somethings correct but I don't have much hopes. And here's the other nuance yes I think reform will be much better than labour because Starmer was a joke. And Farage probably will be too since all our Pms tend be but maybe he'll undo what Starmer did.
And other lefts ya see wouldn't get you can be left and think the other option is better with how badly one did. Labour maybe Marx namesake party but if they aren't following his direction? Does not matter to me.
I wish people would really just take the time and listen to the candidates. Not media TV coz media TV, you're getting brainwashed. Quick watching t v for a year in see how you feel , then
In americ. the right and the left
Are identical , they're twins , except for they use different language
The people that pay for the right and the left elections, or reelections are the same people that run the country.
The right and the left are puppets. I mean, really stop and think about it on how everything works.\nOne side is gun control the other side uses abortion that's the only difference, everything else is the same. That's why? When elections happen, those are 2 of the topics that come to the head of it all, to take our heads someplace different than looking at everything, for what they truly are, I wish people would see that
And then\n Depending on the media station that you watch, that's the brainwashing that you get, it's all b******* It's all a big game, it's all a big con. It has been for years. And it's really kind of crazy that people do not see that I mean, it's right in front of you, listen to The Words Whatever it is, they talk about pay attent.\n Ion to what's really happening, not what we're being fed for us to believe, because that's what's happening, it's all a big game, and it's we the people that are getting screwed. Every single year, it's like big pharma. Look at all the products that they sell for and how many billions and billions of dollars that they make. But not one of their products helps or cures anybody not one , it's to keep making money , that's it
neither, both want a nanny state, just a different kind. only losers want such a thing, real (wo-) men are able to live on their own. if you're afraid of immigrants taking your job, then that means that you believe that every single person who doesn't even speak your language nor has worked at your company for years would do a better job than you. pathetic. get a life. even my friends and i have had summer jobs with higher motivation and performance than some of our adult collegues. it's outright shameful. i hope the government soon allows me to get a proper job, not just newspaper deslivery, dog walking, pet sitting, baby sitting and selling trinkets at beaches.
Why should a citizen of their own nation have to compete against a immigrant for a job and not another citizen from his or her country?
@Hispanic-Cool-Guy because you wouldn't be, as pointed at in my original comment. how could one ever come to the conclusion that someone who doesn't speak the language, doesn't have decades of good history with the company, doesn't have as much experience in the specific field and who likely is worse at using computers/phones, barely knows the basics of how to behave to impress your boss and generally has the highest chance to mess up due to not having grown up there would be better at your job than you and that your boss would choose them over you? that's some major complex that you need to get checked out at your psychologist, my friends with similarly low esteem all have gone and most even take some meds against it.
immigrants clean roads, do gardens, cook, clean dishes, deliver food, put the clothes back that you tried on but didn't buy and clean toilets. are you working these kinds of jobs? of course not. and if you did, you'd still be better of doing sth better after like 2 weeks of education.
this is the main topic our teachers are teaching us about right now, all subjects refer to it in some way, even sports, where we cycle so that we know how hard the job is and that we do sth else and the gym teacher even threatened us before to lift and carry heavy things so we know about that aswell, if we kept up with the nagging. art teacher makes us design stores and advertisements. history teacher talks about industrialisation and how people worked in the past. languages are all about role playing different jobs. sciences are all super specific to our local factories, if we wanted to work in one of them. maths is percentages for taxes. geography is coal and crude oil. ICT is about typing fast, learning all kinds of tools, websites, programs and stuff, but also online security and learning about reliability of the info found online. well, half of what i wrote is still incoming this semester and depending on the subject even next semester.
i dont know much about western schools, but it seems to me like your schools are either only for rich kids that never have to work or who will marry someone rich, or they fail at their jobs and make people grow into hobos, which we dont really have around here.
i'm left wing. in the sense i'm for left wing financial policies, i want to keep the progress that's been aquired in the 20th & 21st century for minorities, i value democracy, and i really oppose current maga & far right political movements. though i'm not 'woke', i rather use the word equalitarian than feminist to describe myself, i'm pro total free speech, pro gun, pro military.
Opinion
37Opinion
i've been historically pretty moderate. socially more liberal but fiscally/ecnomically more conservative
but i've definitely one more left as a result of the swing in the republican party. i find little i agree with them on anymore. or there may be principles of the republican party (based on their stated values) that i agree with but in their actions i wholly disagree
I have what I call 1960s-'70s liberal values. Those include things like peace, love, open-mindedness, tolerance, support for fairness, justice, liberty and freedom, distrust of authority, opposition to authoritarianism, imperialism, coercion, mass murder and war.
I was a Democrat for years but eventually divorced myself from identification with political parties or ideological labels because such identities pigeon hole you and cause people to make assumptions about your beliefs.
I don't have beliefs because beliefs are carved in stone. And when they are challenged by facts they create cognitive dissonance. I develop opinions on individual issues based on what I know so far. But I have an open mind and can modify or change my opinions as I learn more.
I don't trust politicians or corporate media, and I am not influenced by consensus.
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" - Mark Twain
Conservatives think I'm liberal and liberals think I am conservative.
For example: I always supported 2nd Amendment rights. I also support women's rights, including contraception and abortion.
60s-70s liberal values is considered alt right nazi in todays world..
@David318578 lolz, I was about to say the same thing.
Well, I said this previously, so I may as well remain internally consistent for at least 48 hours... it's longer than I normally am on the topic:
"I would characterise myself as a liberal in the historical sense of the word: valuing liberty; embracing all cultures, religions, sexual preferences and life paths; belief that markets mostly, but not always, deliver better outcomes than governments; providing an adequate social safety net.
It's hard to find a politician, much less a party, that shares all those views here, or anywhere most likely."
I'm going to be seriously impressed with the GaG crowd if this thread doesn't blow up like every other thread on politics seems to here... <bates breath>
So far it hasn't blown up, but it's still early lol
"belief that markets mostly, but not always, deliver better outcomes than governments; providing an adequate social safety net."
As someone believing that market looks incompetent in the matter, I genuinely wonder what reasoning you're using to trust market
@Maybe_Maybe_not I can be flippant, but do you have a couple of specific examples in mind where you think markets do poorly and governments do well in production of goods and services?
I mean the flippant answer is:
www.sciencephoto.com/.../korean-peninsula-at-night
worldcrunch.com/.../
www.businessinsider.com/mcdonalds-russia-history-big-macs-soviet-union-american-ukraine-restaurant-2022-3
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Berlin-Wall
www.npr.org/.../a-grim-chronicle-of-chinas-great-famine
www.amazon.com.au/.../0615691358
and on and on and on and on and on...
But I think you were looking for something more granular?
a couple of practical examples focusing on social safety then:
Energy/Power.
Here, you can register to different power providers, private or national, private providers attract promising a cheaper contract. However they aren't bound by the same ethics as the national one, it's visible when you're out of cash, they will cut power instantly, whereas the national one will still deliver power and put a cap on your max consumption.
Health care
Here, vital medical acts, such as giving birth, cancer treatment, appendicitis surgery etc. All are free of charge covered by social insurance. When I look at USA, a market based management of health care, I see people struggling and dying because they have to find insane loads of cash to pay for vital treatments that are free here.
@maybe_maybe_nott
Okay, so I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on the US economy. So a couple of comments.
Energy.
What you describe is a failure of market regulation. It is the role of governments to design markets in situations like energy where there are monopoly characteristics (the technology means small numbers of large players, or perhaps just one, are the only feasible option) and where they are merit goods (we actually care about people having electricity to do things like run life support systems and refrigerators in a way we may not care whether they have fresh eggs and games, etc.).
...
In Australia, we deregulated electricity retailing three decades or more ago, and separated contestable generation from the natural monopoly distribution aspects of the industry. So instead of integrated government enterprises producing, distributing, and selling electricity, you are left with a mix of government and (mainly) private electricity generation, feeding into a corporatised government distribution network, feeding into an entirely free market retail sector.
The effects of these changes were to cut employment in the sector by about 50% at the time. Basically, with the government running everything, bureaucracies were out slowly building gold-plated infrastructure at high cost to meet needs that didn't exist.
The one area that is still a lazy monopolist is distribution... the poles and wires. I installed a rooftop solar system a few years ago which required my mains electricity to be disconnected, relocated, and reconnected. Four guys came out to do the poles and wires part of the task, which involved one guy doing about 10 minutes of work twice over a four hour period. The other three guys stood around and watched, talking among themselves about how physically demanding their jobs had become compared with some apparent 'good old days'.
...
And, okay, I'm only telling half the story. There are a lot of challenges with how Australian governments regulate other parts of the electricity system. But these sorts of 30-50% gains in efficiency are common when government provided lazy monopolies are left to produce goods and services.
And that's a low ball estimate of the efficiencies available because those are static point-in-time gains. The real killer of government production of goods and services is dynamic: there simply is no reason to innovate. The Trabi, an East German car, was not a terrible car when it was introduced in 1957 ... but they were producing practically the same car until 1991.
Don't hold me to precise figures on this post. These are issues I have researched previously so they are ballpark recollections of the figures involved.
Okay. Now I'm tired. So I'm not going to deal with health. But yes the US health system is terrible. The Dutch run a health system driven by private insurance to a similar degree to the US and it is far more efficient. So again the problem is how the market is regulated. I actually agree there are reasonable grounds to argue that health care should be privately provided because it is so darn hard to regulate well.
All of that is separate from the question of access to free care which comes down to a decision by governments to transfer money from taxpayers to those in need of care (this would be the adequate social safety net I mentioned) not about whether the government of private sector produces medical services.
*"should be publicly provided". Sorry typo. ... There's probably a few typos... so sorry for the other ones too.
But you could make some similar arguments about schooling as you could about health... or could you? In Australia, we have universal free public schooling.
At senior school 7-12 level governments may provide say about USD$14,000 per student per year.
My daughter is finishing year 12 in a private school this year. It is costing us out of our own pocket about USD$26,000 and on top of that the school receives government funding of about USD $2000. So we are forgoing $12,000 in government support by sending my daughter to a private school.
Despite free public schooling, about half of all senior school students in Australia study in private or catholic schools. Many catholic schools, taking into account both fees paid by families and support provided by governments, have lower overall levels of resourcing per student than public schools.
So why are families that care about their children's education leaving these big bills on the sidewalk? Forgoing these enormous benefits of free tuition they have already paid for through their taxes?
Answer: The quality of education the public system provides is, on average, THAT BAD!
Regardless of whether or not I have convinced you, hopefully I have convinced you that my political views reflect a consideration of what actually works most effectively in the social interest and are not mere dogma.
It's not really possible to convince me because my experience and my beliefs considerably differ anyway, I was merely curious about why you're trusting markets. And you answered, I'm cool with that :)
@Maybe_Maybe_not Healthy exchange of views.
... A not so common occurrence 😂
@Ez-Bri-Z_v2 I don't' claim to be a Centrist, but I am socially liberal (to a point) but a fiscal conservative. I support President Trump, but like many, I feel he is just simply too verbose and talks too much about his accomplishments.
Mohammed Ali (Cassius Clay) was a really good boxer, but he could not keep his big mouth shut and was always spouting "I am the greatest"! "I'm too pretty"! and other bullshit like that. He should have just "SHUT UP" and let his boxing speak for itself, and that is the way I feel about President Trump. Shut up, already and do the job!
I am more Conservative and support the Republican agenda, but do have some Centrist leanings
I hate communism, socialism, and all synonyms of that.
But I also don’t cling to traditional values that hold people back from their full potential
I think I’m somewhat more right than left on account of still upholding some level of principle and accountability for one’s actions
But I also believe in an ultimate freedom to chase what makes us happy.
Which is typically a liberal belief.
Either side taken too far is narrow minded and repulsive
But the best of both is a healthy minded approach, at least in my opinion
u I’m pretty conservative, or at least I consider myself to be.
Make of that what you will.
The thing about me is, I have a desire to live my life by the Holy Bible. I'm not perfect at it! But since that is my world view, it effects me politically. Often times Christians like me, tend to lean to the conservative. The problem is, neither the left or right does a good job of following the Bible. So when I vote, I feel like I am just voting for the lesser of two evils. That is why I can say, "I appreciate Trump for how he handles religious freedoms, and I respect him for saying I am going to do this or that, and he does it." Yet on the other hand you can't call me a Trump supporter, 1) I think the guy is deceived by false Christianity. 2) I think He gets too prideful, and the last time I did not vote for him. Whenever I hear about Trump, I scratch my head, and move on.
m I believe that market & religion should be institutions on a leash due to their tendency to work only for themselves instead of working with and for the people. In ideal circumstances, I trust left-wing anarchism. In current circumstances, I often look at gov as a shield against the two aforementioned institutions.
I tend to base my political choices on economics. On a political test, I'm slightly left leaning and just as slightly Libertarian (-3,-3 on the quadrant scale). The Authoritarian left here in the United States though has me firmly against the current Left as far as the culture war goes. They hate me anyways... I'm a stright white male. I consider most woke stuff... TRASH. Islam simping... TRASH. Modern feminism... TRASH. TDS suffering retards... TRASH. Get the shots so you don't kill Grandma... TRASH.
That's me... On paper I'm probably an early 1990's Democrat that likes edgy humor. I haven't changed, they sure af changed though. Now I vote Trump and post anti-trans memes on X. I mean voting red no matter who, but I'll talk you into an abortion still.
I'm in the middle of the political spectrum. I am an Independent voter with loyalty to no political party. I have some liberal beliefs and some conservative ones. I vote for the candidate that is most inline with my beliefs. I never vote "the party line" and often vote for minority candidates.
Progressive. im with bernie sanders, AOC, Zohran Mamdani. i want the government to actually give a shit about people especially the most vulnerable. i want universal healthcare, free college, and im very open to having universal basic income. housing also needs to be affordable and plentiful.
huge supported of lgbtq as well
Libertarian, more or less. Government authority ends at my property line. They should have no say whether I want to own a firearm, run a business from my home office, consume organic drugs (which I don't anyways), have a three person marriage (not at my age!), or even run around nude in my back yard in the middle of the afternoon.
The government's focus should be in running the country, or state, as a whole and dealing with other countries.
My political leaning is strongly left because I am sick and tired of the selfishness, lying, greed, abuse, corruption and war-making of the right wing. For the most part, these are cold, ugly, selfish people who had something terrible happen to them in their childhood that makes them such assholes as adults. The only people who they care about themselves.
Middle leaning right.
The media promotion of issues and political and econonic times is pushing people out.
I actually agree a lot with bill clinton back when he was the head honcho.
I don't understand political policies like the economy, energy, foreign policy etc because I'm not educated in those areas just like nearly everyone else but they just pretend like they know when in reality they don't know ish about such complex subjects.
So when it comes to left or right policies either is fine with me.
When it comes to moral standards I will not support a political party or politician that supports same sex marriage, child trans, open borders nor abortion.
I don't belong to any political party. I'm independent.
I am Conservative, I guess I am not Extreme, because I am not against Women in the Army.
Centrism doesn't exist in the USA anymore. I'm a leftie; not an extremist leftie, but definitely left leaning. The defining line for me is simple:
The right-wing cares primarily about profit, the left-wing cares primarily about people.
I don't support either political party, and I think we need a Constitutional Ban on political parties. They do nothing but bicker and waste money and falsely accuse one another, instead of solving any real-world problems.
u I'm a centrist / independent. My best-fitting political party (Zentrum) does not exist anymore, so I split my votes mostly between CDU (conservatives) and SPD (social-democrats.)
u none
I don't have a clear leaning either
and I've never voted for either... none of them truly represent me
By US standards I'm probably a communist lmao.
Why!
@Shrimpenjoyer what is considered left in the US is still pretty far right by European standards.
I say I like our universal healthcare and for the majority of Americans I'll be far left socialist.
I'm a white nationalist who believes that every ethnic group should have sovereignty over their own groups and spaces. Most people respect this as a basic human right for all except white people. Economically I'm against parasitic capitalism like planed obsolescence, subscription based business models for hardware you own and unfair large businesses crushing compeditors and customers. I'm pro-right to repair, Respecting individual privacy, Pro government transparency and countablity.
Center libertarian. Guns, free speech and abortion rights should give one a basic idea
Fiscal conservative and socially moderate. I align more with Libertarians
A social democrat. The social democracies of the Nordic countries are working well.
It's weird. I have always been a Libertarian but the older I get and the more Liberal my neighbors get the more I want to be a far left National Socialist. I guess once their books and ideas have all gone up in flame I can return to Liberty.
Moderate, although it depends on the specific issue, i might lean more right or left depending on what it is
I used to be an independent but the democrats got too crazy so I am a Republican.
I'm in favour of abolishing parliament.
Simples...
I think I'm in the I hate government party. Not left or right wing. I vote just shoot the damn bird and make buffalo wings
If I were to put it in modern terms, I would like to be considered either an Conservative Democrat or a liberal Republican!
Christian, Libertarian. Conservative. Republican.
I lean more torwards the left, because the right showed how selfish they are during the pandemic.
Libertarian, very anti-authoritarian, pro-individualism. Do whatever you want if you're not hurting others. I view any form of collectivism as evil.
I’m center right but many left leaning liberals would call me far right
I'm qualified to determine you do
Right, constitutionalist, conservative, libertarian, republican, 2A supporter.
More leaning right but in the middle
Left.(Democratic Socialist.)
Right libertarian
Common sense
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