What's the problem if I never approach women, and want them to approach me?

[Anonymous]

Before you start judging me, please read the description.

I'm 28, yet I have never approached a woman or made the first move in my life. I strongly feel that men have been approaching women for too long, and its about time the women took matters into their own hand at least sometimes. Due to the rise in feminism and changes in gender roles, women today can do everything which were once considered 'men's domain'. I'm all for equality, and that includes women approaching men sometimes as well.

I never approach a woman even if I like her. Actually, I never even develop a liking anyone that easily. I'm not whining about it, because I'm fine this way. Women wanted equality in everything, and they have more or less got it. Let there be 'equality' in terms of approaching the opposite gender too. I firmly believe that If women want me, they should approach me. If not, then its their loss and not mine.

Its not about 'ego' or anything. And I'm not one of those jerks who don't have an ounce of respect for women. I know that this approach diminishes my dating options greatly, but I don't mind that at all. I have been in a few relationships, and the girls themselves made the first move in all of them.

I know women don't approach men a lot, but when they do, they're usually keepers (each of my previous relationship were long term, and they all ended due to external factors). That's the reason I'm taking it easy and not going out of my way to 'impress' women or ask them out. I'd rather utilize the time I would have spent in pursuing women, to accomplish some of my lofty career and life goals. I'm not desperate for women anyway.

So tell me, why do people (both men and women) feel that my approach to dating is gonna fail for sure? I mean... in any case, its much better than messing around with tons of women. Besides, I don't want to give women the satisfaction of rejecting me (because women usually reject a dozen guys for every guy they accept).

[BuchitaBuchys]

Hmmm. I see nothing wrong with what you want. It's perfectly acceptable to want the female to approach you. Honestly, if I wasn't so shy, I'd love to be one of those "daring" people who make the first move.
I only asked one guy out, and he rejected me. It hurt so bad because I'm a socially awkward person, I have anxiety sometimes in crowds and turn really red if someone stares at me, so building up all that courage to get shot down was so disheartening. I have never and probably will never do it again. I don't know how guys and some girls build up courage to approach people. Kudos to them, rejection or the possible chance of rejection is terrible. Which is why I always try to be as nice as possible when rejecting men and women who ask me out.
Now, while I see nothing wrong with you wanting the woman to approach you, some women do. Me, I described how I'm extremely shy and socially awkward, plus getting rejected the one and only time I tried, I don't think I'd ever be able to do it again. Which sucks for me, because I actually like the geeky, scrawny, nerdy guys, but most of them are too shy usually to approach women. Other women, just prefer the traditional order where the man approaches the woman. Nothing wrong with that either.
If I wasn't so shy and such a pussy afraid to be rejected, I probably would be one of the courageous people to make the first move.
Lucky for you there are women who like to make the first move, so I just say good luck and be gentle on who you reject because it's disheartening. Most women who turn down dozens of guys for every guy they accept, do feel bad for the person they're rejecting. I know I do, because rejection sucks. Don't be callous and good luck to you and those women who are daring enough to approach men! :)

[Asker]

Thanks for the detailed and well thought out answer.

You're right, rejection indeed sucks, whether its a job interview, an admission to a university, or in thjis case someone of the opposite gender. But the difference is, in almost all cases, a person getting accepted or rejected in dependent on his/her skills and efforts alone. If its for dating, even if a person has all the 'desirable' qualities, he/she can be rejected. This is what i really hate about approaching.

Its not that i don't have confidence to approach. Women are too picky. Suppose I approach a woman with complete confidence and I have 100 good traits in me (just saying). But if there is one specific trait she is looking for, and it is different from the 100 I already have, then bam! Rejected. And I don't have telepathic powers to enter her mind and find out what expectations she has from a potential partner. If this happens, my confidence obviously takes a nosedive. I'd rather not give a chance for this to happen.

[Anonymous]

The problem is that you're limiting your options. You will exclusively date women who only approach you, so any type of woman (which is many types of women) who grew up with the idea, or believe in the idea, that men should approach first for various reasons, you will not get.

If that's fine with you though, then whatever. Those are all your personal preferences. The type of women who approach men are very variable as well. It's not about assertiveness or lack thereof, but preference.

I don't approach men and never approached a man. That doesn't mean I'm meek or dependent. My mother taught me that if a man really liked a woman, he would approach her regardless. So pretty much, we don't approach opposite genders for the same reasons. Lol.

Now what's funny is that I've never been on a date either. Right now, I am what you could call "failing" at love. And if you're also having nil luck, that must mean that the real winners out there are really the ones approaching as well as being approached. It's all about probability, isn't it?

[Asker]

Well... your mom belonged to the previous generation in which feminism wasn't as prevalent as now. Besides, during her time, i don't suppose women used to reject men left and right for no valid reason, insult/humiliate men and make them feel like crap. At the same time women were usually not as 'ahead' as men in terms of education, careers etc. When those things have changes, why do you want to listen to what your mom said ONLY when it is convenient for you? Suppose your mom told you that a woman's role is to stay at home, cook, clean and take care of kids instead of earning and being independent (as was the case earlier), would you still listen to her? Of course not.

My dad too approahced my mom, and it was the first time for her and second for him. They went on to get married and stayed together for 25 years until dad's death. how often do you see that happening now, with people divorcing left and right? Its not fair if women want to stick to traditions ONLY if it benefits them.

[Opinion Owner]

i already said it's personal preference. to me, your reasons are no different than a woman telling me that she prefers to be approached for x and y reasons. i am only telling you a consequence of that and am not stating if it is right or wrong, because in the end, it boils down to preference. preference acknowledges people as individuals and not so much a general consensus, thus it cannot make certain the degree to which society or past events have enveloped current thinking patterns. that's actually quite complex and many could argue too variable to be truly valid with possible exceptions to the norm. anyway, think about it.

[freakyzeaky]

It is a shame that so many people look down on introverts and shy people, especially men. "My mother taught me that if a man really liked a woman, he would approach her regardless." and as a shy man I tell you that is a very wrong assumption. I am not a trembling leaf or timid man mind you, but in socializing and approaching, I have some anxiety. Once I warm up to someone, and give some hints that they might be interested, I have no problem asking for a date or taking the lead in dating. It is breaking the ice that is the problem. So is it really so bad for a woman to not want to show interest and start the conversation?

If a person refuses to start the conversation, not because they are shy, but in principle, that would come off unfriendly. If anything unfriendly women are what can put off guys from approaching. If a woman appears to be interested, smiling, friendly, open body language, then I don't see why even a shy guy would have a problem approaching.

[freakyzeaky]

But many women aren't so obvious in their signs of interest. Many guys want to make a good impression so it can be a requirement for some men that the woman shows some interest first, especially if he has to take the risk to pursue.

To me, a woman who refuses to start the conversation, or put herself in a position to connect to the guy she is interested in, is kind of like the woman who refuses to do anything but lay on her back in the bed and expect the man to do all the work.

[WolfDM]

I love how the first sentence says.."The problem is you"

[Nicolette777]

If women want you, you think they should approach you? What if they were taking the same approach? Nobody would end up together. You say that you think it’s time women start to take things into their own hands. What you mean by that is you are too scared/can’t be bothered to approach them. Your approach to dating will fail because you don’t put any effort in and there is nothing sexier than effort and nothing more of a turn off than laziness. I’m sure you’re a great dude but if you really like a girl, you need to approach her sometimes and then- you WILL find someone 💓

[WolfDM]

Nobody ending up together? Sounds great!

[matrix124]

I agree that it is okay for both men & women to approach each other. I would be okay with approaching a man, I think doing the approaching can help because then you don't have to wait & hope someone comes to you. If you want to increase your odds of finding someone, approaching/making the first move could help. But you can do what you want. Good Luck.

[freakyzeaky]

As a shy guy, I would love for a woman who was interested in me to break the ice. Sometimes I can be pretty oblivious to some signals, but not all of them. I find it hard to cold approach strange women who I find attractive, but then again, it isn't the easiest thing for me to strike up a random conversation with either gender. If I am attracted to the woman, I'd probably ask for her # or a date, especially if she is friendly and it seems like I could get along with her.

Many introverts and shy people take time to warm up. Why is it so hard to believe that some guys can be just as shy as some women? It is only human to have some insecurities around some aspects in life. Personally, I wouldn't find a shy woman a turn off as long as she warms up to me and isn't shy in other areas (if you get my drift).

[freakyzeaky]

Also I wonder why is it so wrong to desire women to be friendly enough to start a conversation with a man they are attracted to? It is just a conversation. If you are a woman who makes conversation with strangers, both men and women, then why not make conversation with a man you are attracted to in the hopes of him seeing your interest? If you are the more socially experienced or assertive person, then why not be the one to start the convo? The guy may still ask you out if there is an attraction there, but breaking the ice shouldn't just be on the guy.

[moviedude714]

Well if you are comfortable with it and it doesn't bother you then all means so be it

[learningalloveragain]

Girls like a confident man, an what they see here is no confidence in your self if you dont initiate things like this. Im not gonna say it will fail or not, but you may pass that one girl that could have been the love of you life and then its just settling for which girl may approach you... so let me ask does this roll over I. Other aspects in life? Are all of you desicions like this?

[Asker]

I agree with you. But that 'one' girl who would be the love of my life, is more than likely to reject me anyway. Women almost always reject men who truly have feelings for them.

[KindMoriaty]

Right there "likely to reject me anyway", the "love of your life". That tells me you aren't as confident as you sound.

[Asker]

@KindMoriaty
Its got nothing to do with confidence. Women are so damn picky. Lets say I approach a woman with complete confidence and I have 100 good traits in me (just saying). But if there is one specific trait she is looking for, and it is different from the 100 I already have, then bam! Rejected. And I don't have telepathic powers to enter her mind and find out what expectations she has from a potential partner. If this happens, my confidence obviously takes a nosedive. I'd rather not give a chance for this to happen, so that my confidence always remains high.

[KindMoriaty]

I guess that's fair enough. Still, you should fix that if you can.

[Asker]

@KindMoriaty
By 'fix it', you mean to say i should try to find out their expecations and then make a move? That's pretty damn difficult, especially since women's thoughst and behaviors are usually out of sync with each other.

[Asker]

*thoughts

[KindMoriaty]

No.

The women that flat out reject you, two options-- a) fine, I'll go find someone else, b) try one or two more times.

If a girl flat out rejects me, something tells me there are more fish.

[Asker]

@KindMoriaty

Well... you make a valid point, but it made me think of a different approach. If I'm flat out rejected, I would stick up my middle finger in her face and say "Its your loss, not mine. In any case you'll be running back to mummy and daddy with tears, after the next asshole you date uses you, treats you like a doormat and finally throws you away like a used tissue". And after that, I will just avoid her like plague.

Thinking of it, this approach seems fun! Women have been rejecting men and making them feel like crap for way too long, so its only fair that we pay them back... with interest! Hehe!

[KindMoriaty]

You were saying something about not feeling anger towards women :)?

[Asker]

@KindMoriaty

Hehe of course, as of now I don't have any anger towards women. I'm talking about the hypothetical situation of me making the first move at some point, and how to respond if I'm rejected!

[KindMoriaty]

You don't want to be known as the guy that gives the finger to women that reject him.

They will tell everyone you're an ass.

Girls have their types, we have ours. Sometimes those types are more rare than others.

[KindMoriaty]

I won't waste my time with a woman who rejects me for whatever reason. I'm out to make memories, not play the game.

[Asker]

@KindMoriaty
Pal, I have witnessed a lot of stuff in life, and one thing I have realized is that no matter what a person does, good or bad, there WILL be people who judge him/her for it. This cruel soceity mocks people when they aren't doing well, and tries to being them down if they're doing fine. As long as I don't commit a crime or hurt someone intentionally (physically or emotionally), I don't believe I should really give a damn about when women or anyone else tells about me.
Even if I don't give the finger, men are gonna judge me and say stuff like "See, he just hung his head and accepted rejection like a pussy".
Whatever I do will be judged negatively by some people and positively by some, so I might as well do what i feel is right, isn't it? No action I do would be considered 'good' universally :)

[learningalloveragain]

If you think she will reject you then she all ready has... you wear what you portray

[KindMoriaty]

That's the problem. You care about being called a "pussy". I would never spend time or care those kind of guys.

[Asker]

@KindMoriaty
Now, that's not the point. And I don't really care about being called ANYTHING. I just used that as an example to drive home the point that whatever a person does, there will be some people to judge that negatively or say nasty stuff about it.

[BrunetteNYC]

If today I had to choose between the man who approaches me versus the man who won't, I'd pick the guy who DOES. The man who fails to approach or open up isn't going to attract anything but a desperate stalker or someone who's not balanced in her femininity. Yes, women CAN be warm, receptive and friendly, but if I have to chase a man and he gets lazy and passive on me, I'm NOT doing ALL the work. Honestly, it's a shared duty and that's fair.

A girl who expects a man to do it 100% of the time, or a guy expecting that, are nothing but lazy spoiled brats who will be left behind.

[Asker]

Well... since a majority of the women prefer men to ALWAYS make the first move, I'm just one man who is slightly tilting the scales towards men. Even I can be highly receptive and warm (as I have been to the women who approached me). Besides, women usually reject a dozen guys for every guy she accepts. When women can be picky and expect men to do all the work, why can't men do that? And I'm not at all implying that I expect her to do everything. I'm only talking about the initial approach.

[BrunetteNYC]

it's not wrong for either sex to make the first move, long as it ends well lol

[Asker]

Well... I might consider making a move if I'm at least 90% sure of getting a 'yes'. Otherwise, I wouldn't do it. Most women don't know where to draw the line between the behavior of 'liking someone' and 'being super nice'. And if a guy confesses his feelings, then they more often than not bring all his dreams crashing down by saying they don't feel the same, even if they had behaved in such a way with the guy.

[freakyzeaky]

If the man made you do all the work, and NEVER opened up, then yeah, I can see it being a problem. If he is too timid even when you show obvious interest, that is a problem. But breaking the ice? Starting a friendly conversation in a man you are interested in, maybe even some light flirting to show your interest? What is so wrong with that?

If you still expect the guy to ask for the date or get your phone #, I can understand that. But meeting somewhere in the middle to make the situation feel lighter and less of a burden on the guy, why is that a turn-off?

Are you friendly towards other women? Do you start random convos with strangers? If you do, then what is the difference between that and doing so with a man you are interested in? Some guys (and women) have trouble in this area. They simply don't open up to strange people but will open right up once they are comfortable. If you are the more socially experienced person, what is so wrong with leading the convo?

[saycrunch]

You're scared to be judged. Why do you care if she "rejects" you? Answer me that.

If she says, get away from me you creep, how are you going to act?

Let that slide by and continue life as it was 1 minute ago.

You have to stop being weak-minded.

If you want something, go sample and earn it. Don't say you can when you haven't.

And you're quite negative, how about, giving her the satisfaction of knowing you today?

[Asker]

Let me really honest with you here. I'm too emotionally fragile to go through the rigors of dating and relationships, because I may face rejection at any point. This question was asked long ago. I have realized that I'm too insecure, and have serious self esteem issues. I feel no woman would accept me because I'm just a 'common' man, and have nothing 'special' that makes me stand out from other men. So why would they choose me anyway?

By the way, I did try approaching someone between the time I asked this question, and now. And the result was as expected - rejection.

[saycrunch]

Don't be so negative, when you approach, tell me how have you done it.

Do NOT worry about what people think. you need to get over the hump. Do you care if a passerby points to you and say, "such a loser".

You would not care as 1, he/she doesn't know you and 2, a stranger's opinion does not dictate your reality.

Every person is different. You do not need to be the best, just show you have character and when you approach, MEAN IT!

Go through your "approach" with me and something tells me you've been doing it half-assed.

Most importantly, it's not rejection, just incompatibility at THAT MOMENT!

[freakyzeaky]

The problem with overcoming the fear of social anxiety, shyness, etc. is that as with any fear, there needs to be a gradual exposure.

Take the fear of cats for example. A person can be put in the same room with a cat, and that person will eventually see that it isn't bad. Then, maybe that person will work their way up to sitting on the sofa with the cat, and see there isn't any risk. All the way up to the point where the person can hold the cat in their arms.

Now imagine trying the same exposure with an aggressive and mean cat. That person will never get over their fear! That cat will give them a negative confirmation bias and it will just make things worse.

That is why social anxiety is harder to break. There isn't a controlled positive environment for approaching women. There is always a risk of rejection, even a very unfriendly rejection, and it can just negatively confirm the man's anxiety.

Being approached is validation. Men don't usually get that.

[pooper89]

You seem bitter but you don't show it outright because you see things as "that's just how it is." Based on your comments. Goodluck with your philosophy but I predict that you'll regret it later in life

[Asker]

Hmmm... so you suppose its 'right' for men to always be expected to make the first move?

And no, I actually have no reason to be bitter because I have never approached women in my life.

[freakyzeaky]

If people wish for things for perceptions to change, does that make them bitter? Are feminists bitter about catcalling, or "male entitlement", or any other issue they complain about and situations they want to see change?

What is so wrong with a woman breaking the ice? I don't think most men want so much for the woman to ask for the date or get the #, but think it would be amazing if women were just more friendly and started a conversation with them if they are interested.

With equality comes great responsibility. I am not bitter against women though, I actually wish I wasn't too shy to break the ice with strangers (men and women). Opening up to new people is tough for some of us. Holding on to principles, regardless of your shyness level, is part of the issue with traditions that healthy feminism and equalitarians are trying to break down.

[IjustWantYou2wantMe]

I have no problem with letting a man know I want him.

[Asker]

Finally, someone who doesn't think I'm 'wrong'! I really appreciate you because you don't follow the old, outdated 17th century tradition which says men should always make the first move.

[IjustWantYou2wantMe]

Thanks nice to know I'm appreciated :) I just think if you want someone then you should make it known whether you're a man or woman.

[sandra80]

So have you ever rejected a woman that approached you? Just curious.

[Asker]

Yes I have, but due to valid reasons. One of them was already in a relationship, but she just wanted to 'have fun' with me. I turned her down because I don't encourage cheating and also told her that if she breaks up at some point and approaches me with the intention of a relationship, I'd definitely oblige.

And then, there was a distant female cousin who wanted to date me, but we have grown together as kids and I considered her as my little sister. Besides, I somehow felt it would be incest. So i politely turned her down.

If a woman were to approach me, I'd definitely accept her and give it chance even if I initially didn't like her, because I would appreciate her making the first move and going against this stupid, hypocritical society's 'silly' norms.

[sandra80]

Well the way I see it... Everyone has their own opinions about how they would like a relationship to be or be approached and there are women that feel they would be okay with that approach. So to each his own is my opinion. So good luck in your future relationship... Personally, I have made the first move before in a relationship and it went fine... Basically it had no bearing in why the relationship ended... But then the other way too and it was also fine... I just say go with the flow and if you're feeling it at the time why not...

[Asker]

Thanks for your kind words!

[freakyzeaky]

Sandra's attitude is what we need more of. Women that are assertive enough to go for what they want and don't let a silly principle from holding them back from being friendly, but also shy guys who need to break free of their shyness and be more assertive themselves. It goes both ways.

As a guy who would like to see more women be assertive in dating, I realize that we shy guys also need to work on ourselves. I also realize that not all guys who want women to approach or chase them are shy, but I am just speaking from my position as a man who has anxiety around opening up to strangers in general, men and women.

[Negrodamus]

well, you don't sound any different from any woman i know who expects a man to approach them so i won't judge your decision

[ShaeNielson]

I think it's stupid. But it's only your loss, the women don't care. They'll just find someone else.

[Asker]

Fine, let them find anyone else. No obligation for me or them. If not them, some other women will approach me. Even if no woman approached me in my life (which is highly unlikely), I don't mind. At least I'll have the satisfaction of not being rejected, insulted and humiliated by women.

[ShaeNielson]

Thats a pussy attitude. Maybe you won't get rejected if you don't approach, but you'll miss out on so much. You have to take chances, maybe you'll get rejected sometimes, and so be it, you just get over it, and move on.

[Asker]

I know I may miss out, but I have been a perfectionist with most things in life (like education, jobs etc.) and I would feel personally insulted if I'm rejected by a woman. I'm not willing to take 'no' for an answer. But at the same time, I never feel 'entitled' to women so i won't ever be going the Elliot Rogers way.

Also, in recent years it seems like women just keep rejecting most guys just to get some kind of pleasure and satisfaction from that. I don't want me to be at the receiving end of this.

[freakyzeaky]

Not all men and women are comfortable opening up a conversation with a stranger. Call that a "pussy attitude" if you like. I don't think I'd call someone a pussy for other phobias like spiders, or snakes, or whatever. If you are the more socially experienced person, then why is it so wrong to break the ice and start the conversation? Most shy guys or guys who don't approach would be delighted to have a friendly woman talk to them, regardless if it leads to a date.

Would be nice if more people were friendly in that way, but hey, it is what it is. Would also be nice if I could get over my shyness, but I know it takes positive exposure, not something you can consistently get due to rejection.

[jointhepatriarchy]

I was just telling a young man on here how women are like cats. You have to wait for them to come to you. If you call them or chase them it just freaks them out. :3

[Anonymous]

You will have to wait longer. Those women are a minority it seems.

But... If those are the kind of women you want, then stick to your preferences. You might not be happy with a woman that waits for you to make the first move anyway.

[Opinion Owner]

Personally, it's gotta work either way.

Innately submissive (I'm NOT talking about being a housewife here), unassertive girls are a turn off anyway.

[pr3ttybr0wn]

you're not hurting anyone but yourself.

[Asker]

Nope! I'd be hurting myself only if I were desperate for female companionship. But I'm a chilled out guy, and these things don't matter much to me. Women want equality, right? So I'm just treating the genders equally, but in ALL aspects.

[BrunetteNYC]

I think guys who have such resentment toward women just don't really like women, sounds like you're looking to punish or get even for some unknown reason or because you are angry that women are throwing themselves at you - this is not a healthy attitude and like someone else here said, you are only hurting yourself.

[pr3ttybr0wn]

ok, that's fine

[Asker]

@BrunetteNYC
No, I never have any kind of resentment towards women. i respect women, but I also don't place them on a pedestal. And anger? Not a chance! I hardly, if ever, get angry.

[BrunetteNYC]

Okay, thanks, I understand :)

[freakyzeaky]

Same here, I don't resent women at all. They have their own set of issues and struggles. I don't blame women for not wanting to approach. There are risks in dating that women have that men usually don't, including physical harm, sexual abuse, harassment, pregnancy, and more.

That said, I think it would be awesome of women were more friendly and opened up the conversation sometimes.

My issue is shyness, so if anything I am more bitter towards myself, or at least, trying to come to terms with it and work to overcome it. Positive exposure leads to overcoming anxieties and fears. With rejection, it can be tough to consistently get that positive exposure, this is why I still hold on to the hope that more women will become friendly and just have conversations for me to practice. Heck, even if it didn't lead to a date, I just want to connect with others. That can help to get guys into approaching people in general, and take friendly to the next level.

[Anonymous]

Because it is gonna fail. Women don't approach men

[KindMoriaty]

Well... thats not entirely correct.

[KindMoriaty]

The sexaully aggressive ones are just fewer.

[Opinion Owner]

Being rarely rarely approached isn't great

[KindMoriaty]

It is if you're not looking for quickie and fling, and you are more attracted to the kind of women that would approach.