Yes, I know it's hard for unattractive men to get sex but it's also hard for unattractive women to get a relationship.
How do men have it harder?
Society expects men to do everything, sacrifice their own happiness for their employer/women/family/society, never gets a Thank You for any of their hard work, aren't allowed to complain about it, and nowadays thanks to the far-left, are told they are responsible for all of society's problems and are sh*t on, left and right, and called "incels, misogynists, bigots," etc, if they don't become the slaves to women and society as been orchestrated.
As far as dating goes, very few men are tall (at least 6'0"; only 20%), very few men are good looking (10% or less), VERY few men are wealthy (5% or less), and "a good personality will get you a woman." is LAUGHABLY false as f*ck!
By contrast, even unattractive fat ugly women can sit on their asses and have simps and beta males pay all their bills on OnlyFans. A woman can literally live with her parents with no job and have some guy come along, date her, and propose marriage to her, without her ever having to do anything. Women get societal choice nowadays as well as the old-school method to just be someone's wife and waited on, and and foot. They have the best of both worlds and also get constant emotional validation form society as well and are never given blame or fault for failure or a lack of success. They get every excuse and out in the book.
Have you seen the ugly women shilling their OnlyFans? Have you been on Instagram and seen literal 400+ pound women with hundreds of thousands of followers on there? (I'm not even against fat women for what it's worth, but I know many white men are). And yes, women can get sex whenever they want. Sex with a man who only wants to casually date is still better than LITERALLY NO ONE AT ALL. Men get no women at all if they're not in those top percentages I just pointed out.
I don't dislike women or anything, but they DEFINITELY have it easier in modern Western society than men do. Especially when it comes to dating. But if you need even MORE convincing, here's the most blackpilled of blackpill videos you can find when it comes to being a single man.
Well honestly, it just think its hard for everyone in dating... can't say men have it harder.
I would say ladies have it harder because you probably get a lot more attention then most guys do on average. Because you have guys hitting on you all the time, or would be at least interested in some type of relationship.
And being a good looking, attractive guy does not make it any easier, because then ladies expect more than a good time from you.
Both genders are so different from each other. When the struggles are polar opposite and so often misunderstood (both sides) the question becomes a bit empty.
I know lol
They don't. I thought all of us women agreed on this Lol.
You're a baby
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Well, as it turns out, just because men have money, are tall, or have a good personality, that does not actually equate to getting into a relationship. I know a lot of guys with great personalities who have been single for years. I know great looking guys who in private would lament how hard it was to find someone they connect to. I know one rich guy who is always on his guard, because he gets approached by gold-diggers a lot, so he finds it difficult to trust anyone.
This part might also be shocking, but not every guy is a horndog just looking for sex. Usually that's fun for a small portion of their life, and then after that, they actually want companionship and struggle to find it just as much as women do.
On top of that, men have bombarded with expectations. They have to be the one to show courage and make all the first moves. They have to provide the bulk of the income. They have to work manual labor jobs that destroy their body or risk their life.
Obviously this isn't true for everyone. We're both making broad, sweeping generalizations. I'm just trying to say that the grass isn't always greener on the other side. And maybe you're right, perhaps men don't have it harder than women in the dating world. Maybe they do. But men and women face different problems, so it's hard to compare which problems are worse, because to women, theirs will always be worse and for men, theirs will always be worse. This is because we can't experience the plight of the other.
So ultimately... does it even matter? Life sucks for everyone. It doesn't have to be a competition.
It's an interesting question.
I think the main problem is that most women (hight percentage of them) seek a small grup of men. It's not enough being a tall guy, you got to be funny/have good social skills/ good looking (at least low average) as well. It's not enough to have a good personality, you got to be tall/have financial stability/etc... I think you got it.
Men, generally, should have several good qualities to be considered "a good play". Those men; who are good looking, tall, good social skills, funny, nice job, etc... are also a reduce porcentaje of them. Those men can have a lot of girls and it's not rare that they want just sex for a while. Those men are the ones that women usually want to date/hook up. The other percentage of men have it harder.
You are right, men are more attract to physical part, so being attacctive is important. But, there are a lot of desperate men out there. So, honestly, women doesn't have to be a 10 out of 10 be considered attractive or have a dates (a different thing is that a girl doesn't want to date someone she is not into but the guy he's not into her ) . Just have a healthy life, take care of them and being nice. I have generalized a lot, I did not take into account social strata or social issues, a lot of things. But I think this is a good general idea. Hope I've helped you : )
You're arguing that men have it harder than other men. I'm asking how do men (the unchosen ones) have it harder than the unchosen women? When men say it's easier for women to get sex... that's a man's want not a woman's. Most women want relationships. The unwanted man cannot get sex, the unwanted woman cannot get a relationship. So, how is it harder for the unwanted man than the unwanted woman?
by the way, thanks for your comment.
Actually that would be true from person to person. I'm sure it's out there happening but , I say the opposite based on what I know in my life. I know girls who dated undesired men and these guys ended up leaving them for better looking women.
I will try to break this down as best as I can...
"Being tall will get you a woman."
"Tall" is generally 6' or above, of which 90% of men are shorter
"Good looks will get you a woman."
Looks are subjective. I'm reminded of an OKCupid survey that asked women to rate men's pictures and women rated most men as unattractive.
"Good personality will get you a woman."
Yes, but only if she gives you the opportunity to show that personality, which means you have to approach her, get her to talk to you, ask her out, get her to say yes, and go on a date with her. Many guys can't get that far because women seem to have a dislike for being approached (or at least they come off that way).
"Money will get you a woman."
Only if you're a top earner, which, again is a relatively small percentage. And most guys in their 20s or 30s don't have that type of cash flow.
"However, for women we have to be attractive or were F**ked. There's no wiggle room for us."
Not true. While being attractive certainly helps, men have a much wider range of qualities that are considered attractive compared to women. That OKCupid survey I referred to earlier showed that men rate women's attractiveness as a normal distribution while women rate men on a skewed distribution. Being shorter than him will help get you a man. A good personality will get you a man. Being approachable will get you a man. Staying fit will get you a man.
The problem is that a lot of women either aren't approachable, aren't fit, or don't have good personalities conducive to a relationship.
Men have it harder because we have to sell ourselves to you in order to get a date in the first place. Women don't. They just have to take care of themselves, be friendly, and show interest in the guy in order to get asked out. We have to do everything a woman does plus extra things.
I'm 6' 9'. I've been single for 20 years!
I'm told I'm good looking. Still been single for 20 years.
I have a great personality! Still single after 20 years!
I don't want a gold digger or someone that only wants me because I have cash!! She DAMN WELL better love me for ME, NOT my wallet!! I'm not into plastic chicks!!
That's UTTER BULLSHIT!!! I know of a number of unattractive women that are MARRIED and even have grandchildren, by now!!
Again, BULLSHIT! If you want a guy bad enough, you can get one!
Dating and the sexual marketplace operates on something called pareto principle where 80% of the men are invisible to 80% of the women. It means that 80% of the women want to have sex with only the top 20% of men. This has been proven repeatedly on platforms where there is complete anonymity regarding sexual decisions "dating apps" where it was found that women's perception of men was highly skewed, or that most men are below average, whereas men's swiping pattern showed a more normalized bell curve, or that most women coming out as average, which is statistically correct.
The average man is invisible to the average woman. So unless an until a woman is exceptionally unattractive, she has no dearth of potential sexual partners. Now the issue is whether that potential partner is matching of her standards of the idealized top 10-20%.
"So unless an until a woman is exceptionally unattractive, she has no dearth of potential sexual partners." Thanks.
I think you overestimate how this works there's a lot of guys who fal in one of those categories and still have a lot of trouble. I am tall and handsome and decently athletic too but I have a mental disability. I have had women interested in me but it's very difficut for me to understand people and especially women and social interactions so either I get uncomfortable and want out, or I find a way to screw it up accidentally.
In the past I wanted to be alone a lot but lately that has changed and I feel like I'm ready mentally but my life is not in a great place atm so that's a problem. Some guys just have great social skills and experience and make it look easy those are the guys that women see the most but there's tons of guys that don't know what they're doing and it's very diffcult for them.
I have many stories on how guys got women based on ONE of those qualities. You even said that some guys have great social skills. That's what I mean by the wiggle room. If a guy doesn't find the girl attractive enough to date, her social skills aren't helping her with anything. If a guy cares about that, it's usually after there has been a physical attraction. Any who, this doesn't really answer my question about how guys have it harder than the women who also have it hard but thanks for your comment.
It´s not that easy to say that being tall will get you a woman that´s a prejudice at best because it´s not the normal case. The problem for guys in dating is that we should be the active part while a woman can stand and back and just react to men trying to get her a man always has to make the first move even if he´s totally uncomfortable with that.
Offline dating nowadays is hard because there are nearly no place where trying to get to know a woman could go well. There are no blind-dates or other activities.
Online dating is either a money making business or you have to find a match which for many guys rarely happens.
So it´s not that easy to get to know a woman because it´s not true that women don´t value attractiveness many women also have high expectation in how a man has to look like.
Women expect perfection and if they don't get it they more often then not take the exit.
Men want perfection but do not expect it. If the womsn isn't perfect most will ask themselves, do I need those things she doesn't have. Usually for guys it boils down to, can I get a a better deal with the next girl. Most guys who answer 'yes' are either in a mismatched relationship (bad) or they are players and have plenty of options. Those that answer no enter exclusive (long-term) arrangements. Those that can't answer usually stay status quo and wait for things to develop further.
I'm tall, muscular and fit, fairly well off, good looking enough to be asked to model, extremely outgoing and I found dating so rediculus and difficult I stopped trying.
Women know less about what men must endure just to get a date than most kindergartners know about astrophysics.
It was easier to get one of my degrees than to get a date. In fact I got an art history degree by accident just to trying to get a date with a girl that was flirting with me (turns out she was just a flirt with every guy)
I knew a guy from highschool who joined the military to get a date with a girl who told of him she liked military men in uniform. he died in Afghanistan.
Think about that for a while
I'm going to have to take your word on how you look considering there's no photo to prove it. How was it hard for you to get a date? You hardly ever hear this stuff from attractive men.
I'd rather not comment my opinion on your deceased friend. I don't want to hit a sore spot or bring problems because my opinion doesn't go with the story.
I hate approaching and don't. In fact my ex wife asked me out. After my divorce I tried online dating. I must have messaged a dozen women and didn't be even get a reply. The one date I managed to get cost me $1100 (she wanted to try this new restaurant) and then she told me she was married!!
So I quit even looking at women and gave up on them.
Hm seems no one mentions few things.
1) When men hit puberty they are now perceived as creeps, perverta and potential rapists everywhere you go for rest of your life.
2) No one gives a crap about men, they are on their own with their problems, like 0 fuks fiven.
3) Goverment is against men, cus of reasons above, you get jailed for talse rape accusations, false domestic vilences, you lose your house, money everything, and u pay for rest of your life.
Would you say that makes ot easier for ment to approach women and get onto relationships?
Also I do find most guys being pathetic losers and its not womens fault, they choose not to workout and improve themselves, they let goverment chop their balls off and their sons to be fuked from get go, so here we are with bunch of guys with no balls left on them. Women suffer from lack of masculine men in dating pool. It fuks both sides up.
"women we have to be attractive or were F**ked" - Not true.
But do you want to know our equivalent to that? WE HAVE to be TALL, and like you said, have MONEY or social status, or we're F**ked!!! There's no wiggle room with that either trust me!
But I don't believe one has it "harder". I think it's equally hard for either, just in different ways. And if anyone, I do think guys slightly because women are much more "selective" in general when picking a partner. They look at more things than guys do, or guys will "over look" more generally speaking. Like just an example, you think women have to be "perfect" or hot, which isn't true, but for guys, height is actually a "deal breaker" for many women. Something we have NO control over. Women can usually do something about their appearance, if they feel that is the problem. We can't change our height.
"But I don't believe one has it "harder". I think it's equally hard for either, just in different ways". I agree.
Have you ever asked someone out? If so, were you rejected? How did that feel?
Imagine having to do that hundreds of times. With the wrong mentality, it can be crushing. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. There was actually a lesbian woman who lived as a man to see what the differences were, and said it was hell. You can see the interview discussing her experiences here:
Happy to share!
I've seen this before. I know it's hard. I've admitted that. What I'm asking is how is it harder for the unwanted man than it is for the unwanted woman based on their wants. Most women want relationships while most men want sex. The unwanted man cannot get sex, the unwanted woman cannot get a relationship. So how is it harder for the unwanted man than the unwanted woman?
I’m betting most unwanted men would happily get with unwanted women if the women were desperate enough to lower their standards. But, as the Sydney Morning Herald says here: www.smh.com.au/.../...ing-game-20120421-1xdn0.html
“We arrived at the top of the staircase,'' Bolick wrote, ''finally ready to start our lives, only to discover a cavernous room at the tail end of a party, most of the men gone already, some having never shown up - and those who remain are leering by the cheese table, or are, you know, the ones you don't want to go out with.''
It’s not desperate women getting shut out by desperate men. It’s the other way around. Even with nobody else interested in her, she would rather be alone.
"It’s not desperate women getting shut out by desperate men." From what I've seen throughout my life, I'd say it's the other way around but we can agree to disagree.
Because men have a MUCH wider view of what's attractive in a woman. Women all think the same type of men are attractive and view 80% of men as less than average. If you're a handsome man then you have it made, but average men or below average have it the worst. Why would I want a woman that's only interested in my money? Also a good personality and being tall won't help on its own. Try making a tinder account as an average guy (A true average guy, not what you believe is average) and see how much attention you get.
You're the only guy who understood I meant these things as on their own. "If you're a handsome man then you have it made, but average men or below average have it the worst." Thanks. I know unattractive men have it hard, I just don't see how they have it harder than the unattractive woman. Tinder isn't a good representation. It's sex based. I compared men to sex vs women to relationships. That's why. Most women want relationships. Get on Tinder as ( an average woman a true average woman not what you believe as average) and try to get a relationship without having to sleep or entertain sleeping with the guy first and see how many guys ghost you.
biased
I guarantee it would be much easier for me to succeed with the female account than the male account. Unless a woman is ugly, then it should be relatively easy to find a man in her league. Most men would be blessed to get someone in their league.
You said unless the woman is ugly then it should be easy to find a man. "Unless the woman is ugly". That's the thing. What's an average woman to women is not an average woman to men. You would have to use a woman women consider to be average not a woman men consider to be average. This tinder experiment is a sideshow. I'm only interested in the answer to my question and "unless the woman is ugly" answers it. Thanks.
But according to statistics, men view more women overall as attractive, while women view the vast majority of men as unattractive.
For one the woman has all the control when it comes to sex and for two men are always expected to just man up and pretty much have no feelings when it comes to shit in life.
where guys are told to suck it up and deal with it women are told its the mans fault lol i dunno im just talking shit
Men have the control when it comes to a relationship. Both hold control. Lol thanks for admitting your shit talking. That was funny haha.
When you say men are expected to hide their feelings and man up, that's only to satisfy other males lol. Feminine figures do. not. care.
@taylorallen i disagree
If wearing a pink tutu was attractive to women it would be dress code for the military.
I like to feel women have a lot of control when it comes to starting a relationship because women are normally in the position of consent
I think the reason why people think us men have it harder is because usually us men tend to get stereotype as how useful or brave we are. While us men have to usually be the one who makes the first move and try impressing the women, we are also expected to be quiet cilvery towards women and are quite expected to pay for dates. Mainly most men need to present ourselves as catcher in the dating world.
In my experience women haven't put any effort into forming a relationship.
And apparently you women only care about shallow things such as looks and material possessions, which doesn't help. Admittedly men care about looks too, but we're generally willing to make exceptions in that department. As a result I've only managed to be in a relationship with one male partner because we both put effort in.
Good for you Devin. This doesn't really answer my question though. I'm asking how does the men who have it hard have it harder than the women who have it hard?
Some men understood though...
All good, Thanks for commenting!
Because men that are like 7/10 need to compete for women that are 4-5/10. Women that are ugly can still get laid whenever they want. Men that are average or even above average struggle. Even then men have to do all the work. Pay for dates, initiate, have a good job, etc. Women are much less tolerant as well. They have too many dealbreakers
Most women don't want sex, they want relationships. So what would be hard for the ugly woman is to get a relationship. That's equivalent to the ugly guy trying to get laid based on what I am asking. Neither are able to get their wants. You're saying the woman has it better because she is able to get what the man wants but that's not what she wants. That's what he wants, she wants a relationship and because she's unattractive it's hard for her to get that.
The ugly guy can't get a relationship either though. The ugly girl still wants sex and can get it.
She can only get sex if the men are giving it. They have to want to sleep with her. So it seems like were on the same page. They both have it hard.
You'd be surprised, even ugly girls have an abundance, do a Tinder experiment
Tinder is based on sex. Most women want relationships not sex.
No woman wants a sexless relationship
If she gets with a guy she doesn't want to screw, she's going to be ok with a sexless relationship.
@Asker
You're really just making excuses at this point. You can get all the sex you wanted to, if you wanted, but just want way more than sex. While men less than a 7/10 can't get sex OR a relationship. AND they'd still have to do all the work, while all a woman has to do is not be an entitled cunt to him. THAT is why men have it much harder. What is so hard for you to understand about that?
If she won't screw than he's a friend...
@MCheetah You're argument is how men in general have it harder than women. Let's put the man and the woman on the exact same playing field. How does the unattractive man have it harder than the unattractive woman?
*your
@Asker
Men and women aren't on the exact same playing field though. And even if they were, society still expects men to do all the heavy lifting and courtship. Very few women have to actually ask a guy out. Not to mention women's standards are far higher than men's; men will pretty much date any woman who isn't extremely unattractive, while most women expect to get 8s and 9s for partners. Or do I got to pull out the graphs again?
Bruh cause the unattractive man can't get sex or a relationship. The ugly girl can get sex and even a relationship if she tries
@MCheetah unattractive men and unattractive women are both unwanted in the dating world. "men will pretty much date any woman who isn't extremely unattractive," Thanks.
Unattractive men can get sex. The illegal way in most places, some places it's legal. May not be the route they want but it's a way they can get it.
Ok, but women never have to pay, so how do they have it harder?
They do the males are called gigolos. I never said who I thought has it harder.
There's a bunch of names of what the male version is called. Of course, I know, it's not as common but it is out there.
Tall guys get women? Good looking guys get women? Good personality? Where do you live? How many of those are without being capable of getting a single girl? Both genders have to do some work but it's much more easy for a girl in a disco to get an one night stand
Again. Most women want relationships. It's most men who want sex that's why it's easy for the girl to get a one night stand. Guys give it easy. Guys are not giving relationships easily. The question is based on what the genders want that's hard to get. I'm asking how is it harder. Not how is it hard. How does the guy who can't get sex have it harder than the woman who cannot get a relationship?
because the woman has the vagina and uses it as a weapon. you might say you want a relationship but what you really want is a personal slave cuck that will ask how high when you tell him to jump.
then if he does become your personal slave you get bored and move on because its not as fun at that point.
most women are whores
It depends on age. Under about age 30, women DEFINITELEY have it easier in dating.
It is FAR easier for women to get sex. Anyone who doesn't acknowledge that is a very dishonest person.
Men have to pursue women, not the reverse. That should tell you something.
It's no secret that women have higher standards than men. Why? Because they can. Men don't have the luxury of having high standards.
All of the above applies to men under age 30. After age 30 the tables turn and it is men who have the advantage, for obvious reasons.
I was waiting on the "easier for women to get sex" comment. Most women want a relationship. It's hard for women to get a relationship. Men are handing sex out left and right, It's easily given that's why it's easy to get it. Men are NOT handing out relationships as easy as they are sex.
If the tables turn at 30. The guy either became more attractive or more successful, then that means the women they date after that have the same standards as the women they couldn't get before because of those standards... so, you're dating the women with the same standards you just fit them now.
Not exactly, no. Women past 30 don't have the same standards they did when they were in their 20s, because they can't afford to. But men can definitely afford to have higher standards at that age.
Yes, men do up their game as they reach their 30s. They are more mature, more stable, have more established careers with higher income, and they are more interested in relationships. They are not more attractive than they were in their 20s, but they are FAR more DESIRABLE to women. Younger women can and do date those guys, and those guys happily date those younger women. The people who get left out of that are men in their 20s, and women in their 30s.
Women definitely have the power in dating in their 20s, it's just a matter of how they choose to use it.
I'm referring to the men who turn the 30. if the men turn 30 and are at a better advantage to than when they were younger, that is because a standard about them went up. SO they either became more attractive or more successful at 30 or after than they were in their 20s. That's why they have the leverage. The new 20 year olds have the same standards as the women who were once 20 yet are now 30. The only difference is the new 30 year old men meet the standards now.
You said it yourself. Men have to be tall, we have to be good looking, we have to have a great personality, we have to have money, all you women have to be is attractive. We have to be everything and you only have to be one thing. And what frustrates most men isn't women not wanting them. It's the inconclusive-ness of it. It's the hot and cold of it. It's the I'll flirt with you but I won't even consider dating you.
The single best date in my life was the day I decided women were a locked door to me. A weight had been lifted. When I realized no woman I was interested in WOULD EVER be interested in me. I was suddenly free! Unencumbered to live my life and pursue interests without that hollow existence anymore. Understand I'm NOT knocking relationships. I'm talking about accepting reality is all.
There meant to be separate. There's a period after each one. Just because it didn't work for you doesn't mean it didn't work for other men. So, the women you were chasing were either out of your league or they were reaching out of theirs. Fair enough. By your logic, this would mean all the guys lacking all of these things fall into the category of men women do not want. So here's the question: How do the men women do not want have it harder than the women men do not want? I know those who aren't the choice have it hard. I'm asking how does the unchosen man have it harder than the unchosen woman?
Just because what didn't work for me?
If one of the qualities didn't work for you.
You're full of a lot of anger. Why instead of blaming all men why don't you just work on your slothful appearance?
I'm not angry at all and I'm not blaming men. I'm asking them and you. The question from my previous comment is: How do the unchosen men have it harder than the unchosen women?
Keep telling yourself that and eventually you might believe it yourself.
Ok so you don't want to answer the question. Take care.
I already told you you just didn't accept it. All women have to be is one thing guys have to be all things to a woman. And even then she might just decide she's not interested anymore.
It's no wonder so few guys want to invest in a woman. There really isn't anything in it for us anymore. Women used to be loyal. So few are anymore. Thank feminism. Now you got the daughters and granddaughters of those feminists that have been brought up on hating men.
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