Is being a female surgeon a turn off when it comes to dating?

[Anonymous]

are successful smart women a turn off?

[Anonymous]

Well...
Relationships where the woman earns more are more likely to break up.
Part of it is that women tend to want partners that performs better or at the very least equal to them.
After all, genetically you have a subconscious preference towards people you perceive as providers, since at least biologically during evolution that was the distribution of the gender roles to a large degree.
And this is the desire women tends to have during most of their period.
While you also have a attraction towards good genes about once a month, from what I understand.

But the men that are your equals when you have such a job are few and far between.
And the men that *are* in such a position tends to be a lot less picky about their female partners, caring more about personality (and their biological suitability/fertility) etc.
While people who "are beneath you" likely already have been burned before...
People aren't going to refuse to date you if you have such a job.
But be aware of your biology so you don't end up with a partner that you feel is beneath you, that feels easy to replace when the going gets tough.
We men are aware of this dynamic and might feel reluctant to deal with it.
If you're good looking *and* smart *and* have a good income, someone just good looking might not be safe in the relationship.
If they *are* good looking and smart too, they likely don't value your intelligence as much as you do yourself, and may think that they can get a better deal at the cost of that variable.

Does that make sense?


Essentially, if you take that education and then you kind of limit yourself to the "best" guys out there, and they aren't afraid of shopping for a better alternative.
As a result good partners might be hard to come by.

But they *do* exist, and you can absolutely find happiness with such a job.
You're just making it difficult for yourself.

Does that make sense?

If you feel ready for a challenge it's worth taking.
And honestly you can save lives, so if you have the capability you kind of have a duty to.
But yeah...

Just make sure that you truly are invested in the relationship and don't give up too easily.

[Asker]

its quite funny how guys with absolutely no dating experience always refer to "biology" as the only way relationships must work out. there's more to marriage than just sex and money. wake up.

[007kingifrit]

as he said there are a ton of studies that relatiionships where the woman earns more tend to end more often. biology does define you

[Asker]

@007kingifrit

just the same way that studies say that men only date younger women. But yet, there are plenty of men who also do like older women. Exceptions exist. A lot of them.

[Asker]

@007kingifrit

just the same way that people say that men only want thin women. YET, there are plenty of married people who are fat. Or overweight women that are dating...

[Opinion Owner]

Yes exceptions absolutely exists.
This is just tendencies.
And that leads to a change in distribution of potential partners, and in the probability of meeting the right person in your lifetime.
It absolutely can happen.
Just make sure that you walk into this with your eyes open.
It *will* narrow down your selection.
But you will still absolutely have options, including some really good ones.
You're just likely to have more competition for those options then they have for you as a partner.
But do your best to be a good partner and it might work well.

[Opinion Owner]

The preferences for thin women is entirely cultural and not universal, many cultures prefer thick women.
The preferences for younger women is biological rather then cultural, although the exact ages that's acceptable is influenced by cultural values.
This is also all tendencies, statistical probabilities etc.
Evolution loves to experiment and try out *everything*.
It'll throw everything and the kitchen sink at the wall and see what sticks.

If you want to, go with it.
And if you find a good guy make plenty of kids so evolution might be more kind towards that choice in the future.

[007kingifrit]

exceptions do not disprove rules

[Opinion Owner]

I wouldn't go as far as calling it a full blown rule...
But yeah...

[Asker]

@007kingifrit @opinion owner

when exceptions are too many... thats how you know your "stereotype" is a problem.

[Lliam]

Not at all. I like smart, successful women as long as they aren't stressed out or work all the time. I mean, I want a partner who is fun to be with.

[Lliam]

Thanks for the MHO. :-)

[kylee2437]

A man that finds this a turn off probably doesn’t bring much to the table and doesn’t want the woman in the relationship doing better than him so

[jennifer_bloom]

Even the female surgeons I know of choose men who have good personalities over men who are rich or attractive.

[Asker]

what you need to realize is that when a woman has enough money, she can date any man regardless of his financial status. now im not saying they're willing to date broke losers but they don't need a rich man. they already have money.

[hahahmm]

1. Standards for dating tend to be low compared to getting engaged/married. Generally speaking. But sure some people have much higher standards for dating and everything else. These people also tend to have more to offer than those who don't.

2. If she is looking for a traditional situation then she needs to look for a guy who makes as much or more money than herself. And yes, I know lots of doctors and I've seen how things play out when the couple isn't matched right. It's not good.

--

But back to your question... it depends on the guy. And women who claim that if any guy isn't interested in that he has issues (to paraphrase) just don't really understand how men think. If a guy is successful he doesn't need the woman to be successful. It's not something he has to have in a woman. Just like he doesn't need a woman with a mustache or who is capable of fixing car engines. What he will think about is her character and feminine qualities. Otherwise he might as well be dating a dude. I'm not saying there's something wrong with a woman being a surgeon either. But realistically, the percentage of female surgeons compared to the female population is low. It's sort of like asking is it a turn off to be a professional female basketball player. It's not a turn on... and depending on other factors it could be a turn off. Of course broke guys have a different opinion because they see a massive benefit in her bank account.

If you are/or want to be a female surgeon it's possible to do that and get a good guy but you'd be very wise to start looking for him when you're young. Not wait till you're 35 with 20 ex boyfriends. Trust me.

[Asker]

A woman will always be able to get a man at any age. A 45 yr old woman will get 50 yr old men chasing her. A woman in her 50s will have 60 yr old men chasing her. You can't act like a woman has no chance of finding love when she is older.

But her chances with finding an attractive , good looking wealthy man is best when she is young.

[hahahmm]

There's plenty of SMOKING. HOT women 35+ constantly whining about how they can't get a man. They can get sex. What they can't get is a quality guy to take them seriously: if she didn't bother to develop the kind of character that men take seriously! Today the world is full of women claiming that men's opinions don't matter. They end up like these women... Don't confuse getting a man to chase you with getting a man to take you seriously.

And this is true regardless of the guy's quality too. I've seen situations where a very successful woman is married to some guy who has little/no success. You might want to think he took her seriously to marry her. No, almost always he is just milking her and probably cheating a lot on the side too. It's what happens. But hey, you don't have to believe me.

[hahahmm]

And why do women care about being taken seriously? Probably because until that happens there's no commitment/loyalty & the guy isn't giving her traditional relationship benefits (which all straight women want).

[Asker]

sweetie, i know you're just a passive aggressive woman hater.

there are PLENTY of men in their 40s and 50s who are DYING to date a 35 yr old woman.

Just ask @avicenna. he's is dying to get a woman in her 30s pregnant

[Asker]

@hahahmm

[hahahmm]

The fact is that you cannot get the quality dudes just based on looks. And the few quality dudes dumb enough to be into that are already taken by women who look way hotter than you ever will. The numbers won't work out for you, especially as you get older.

Also, i clearly made a distinction between being taken seriously and not. If you don't get that.. that's on you.

[hahahmm]

Getting sex is easy. Any idiot should know that.. but yes, lots of women seem to think it's an achievement if they have dudes wanting sex with them. It's not.

[Asker]

@hahahmm

You also to realize that when a man is old , wrinkly, saggy and not rich, he won't be able to attract 20 to 30 yr old women.

So he will have to date other old saggy wrinkly 40 to 60 yr old women

Just cuz you want a hot 20 yr old , it doesn't necessarily mean you can get her. Hot young ladies have options

[Darkrainbow]

"You might want to think he took her seriously to marry her. No, almost always he is just milking her and probably cheating a lot on the side too. "

Haha trust me, a lot of traditional men cheated on their traditional wives too.

[Asker]

@Darkrainbow

soo true... a lot of chauvinists just want a free maid / free prostitute at home.

[Malwi93]

well what do i have to do to be taken seriously?

[Asker]

@Malwi93

only if you're willing to agree to be a free maid and free prostitute for the rest of your life

[Malwi93]

i dont understand

[Malwi93]

they dont treat me seriously anyway even though im nice person

[hahahmm]

@Darkrainbow Some people cheat, yes. This isn't about whether cheating is possible or not. That's another topic.

[hahahmm]

@asker you say old wrinkly guys who aren't rich can't attract 20 or 30 year olds... That doesn't contradict anything I wrote. "Hot young ladies have options" -- That's an illusion. I would not equate rich guy with quality guy, but yes, most quality guys have resources and/or riches compared to somebody else. And as a guy gets older he tends to accumulate wealth if he's "quality".

[hahahmm]

Hello @Malwi93 -- Don't mind asker. She sounds bitter about something. To get a guy to take you seriously you should: Make sure you take yourself seriously. This means you have standards for yourself in how you behave, how you treat others. You don't get taking seriously if you do what is easiest to do. It takes work which is why lots of women (and men) don't want to invest the energy in building character. Guys don't want women who act like dudes or act like they need to compete with the guy. They also don't want (for serious) a woman who doesn't need anything at all from him. These are just a few things. Check out my mytakes if you want more ideas from a traditional POV. Although many of them are written to guys they still have info about how traditional guys think in them.

[Malwi93]

Not true. I already treat myself like this

[hahahmm]

@Malwi93 Oh, so you tell me why you can't get a guy to take you seriously. It's always interesting when women think they know better than guys what guys look for.

[Asker]

@hahahmm

[And as a guy gets older he tends to accumulate wealth if he's "quality".]

vast majority of men never get rich throughout their entire lives. Even 100k isn't anywhere close enough to be rich nowadays. This is why most young women marry attractive hot young men around their age.

[Staximus]

Not a turn off, but women like that rarely date or marry a guy who makes less money than her. They also rarely date or marry a guy who doesn't have such a prestigious career. At least not around here. Women who have prestigious careers and make lots of money are usually very self-conscious when it comes to social status and how others look at them.

Like for example, let's say some doctors and nurses all get together and go to the bar after work. There's a male and female doctor and a male and female nurse, all good looking with great personalities. Let's say there's two bartenders, one woman and one man who both are also considered attractive looking with great personalities. The nurses and bartenders all have a pretty good chance of dating each other. The male bartender has pretty much no chance of dating the female doctor, the male nurse has a slightly better chance because they work together or in the same field, the male doctor has a good chance. The female bartender has a small chance at dating the male doctor, the female nurse a better chance, the female doctor has the best chance.

[Asker]

do you realize that most male doctors aren't even marrying nurses anymore? vast majority of doctors are marrying female doctors. Nurses are marrying police officers and firefighters.

why would you date a nurse if you can date a brilliant female doctor?
its not only female doctors that value leagues.

[Staximus]

Ummm... I literally said the female doctor has the best chance at dating the male doctor in the last sentence above. If you're trying to become a surgeon, I hope you read your textbooks better than that or you're never going to make it through med school haha

[Staximus]

And men care a lot less than women do about dating or marrying somebody who makes less money or doesn't have a such a prestigious career

[Asker]

@staximus

its not only female doctors that prefer to marry male doctors.

male doctors also prefer marrying female doctors.

[Asker]

male doctors are no longer marrying nurses like they used to. instead they are preferring female doctors

[Staximus]

I think you have a reading comprehension problem when it comes to the English language

[Asker]

@staximus

i don't think so... i think you're just in denial about certain things.

[Staximus]

Ok let's try this again for the third time, brain surgeon. In the last sentence of the third paragraph, I clearly stated that a female doctor has the best chance with a male doctor over other women.

[rigmarole]

Surgeons are not desirable because they often work 12 to 28 hours shifts and are known to work 80 hour work weeks. They are often on call for emergencies as well. As a result it is difficult to have a stable relationship and or family with them with normal hours. Additionally it is a high stress position that can negatively impact people around you and can turn you apathetic over time. They generally live under mountains of personal financial debt for quite a while. They are also often money motivated. None of that is really attractive.

[Asker]

i think these are all stereotypes. Sure they work many hours but so do accountants during tax season, nurses who work 12 hour shifts, finance professionals at prestigious investment firms.- they even get called in to work during weekends. Plenty of lawyers at firms work 10 to 12 hour days. Working overtime is normal for many industries. Not specific to only surgery.

You would assume surgery is a high stress position. But Its not a high stress for surgeons who have been practicing for a very long time. Something that used to be stressful suddenly becomes second nature to them.

And no, surgeons usually aren't mounted with mountains of financial debt. Because reality is... they can a million dollars within less than 2-3 years. Any debt they incurr may very well be paid off within a very short period of time.

[rigmarole]

The only accounts that work long hours are ones that do taxes and that's only during tax season. Not all doctors work long hours, but surgeons do. Not all accounts work long hours, but tax accounts do. It's the specially you choose. A medical doctor that is a dermatologist or pediatrician for example is much more desirable.

[Asker]

[They are also often money motivated. ]

who isn't money motivated? if you dated a real estate seller, they will be motivated to sell you the house. if you date a hair dresser, she will be motivated to sell your extra hair treatments. what makes surgeons look any worse? the only difference is surgeons spend their entire lives to work tremendously hard for their money while hair dressers and real estate professionals dont.

[As a result it is difficult to have a stable relationship and or family with them with normal hours. ]

Vast majority of financially well off families tend to work a lot. Be poor and have family time or be rich while trying to make use of any family time you have left outside of work. You can't have everything.

[rigmarole]

But that's why they get paid the big buck... They have long hours, they have high stress, they work in dangerous conditions, and they sacrifice all the important things in life just for a pile of money. Money allays come before life for a surgeon. That's a very undesirable character trait.

[rigmarole]

*accountants

[rigmarole]

That's not really how it works. You become wealthy by owning your own company and producing something of value to your community. Either you manufacture something in demand, you harvest resources that people need via mining/timber, or you manage people and delegate authority to carry out tasks in a service based business (labor manager). All people only have so many hours in a day. Working more hours isn't how you get wealthy. You need to get other people to work those hours for you.

[Asker]

[You become wealthy by owning your own company and producing something of value to your community.]

are you really that naive to believe CEOs or cofounders of companies work 40 hour weeks? to be SUCCESFUL in anything, you must work long hours. Nobody becomes successful working as few hours as possible.

[Working more hours isn't how you get wealthy. You need to get other people to work those hours for you.]

you can't hire someone else to work for you if you haven't put in your work to become successful yourself. Nobody becomes successful without an initial sacrifice- and this means working long hours.

Certain jobs get paid a lot because of the high level of RESPONSIBILITY whether this means if you're gonna be on call or working additional hours. But even if they work additional hours, they will still make significantly more money than you at the hourly rate.

[Asker]

[The only accounts that work long hours are ones that do taxes and that's only during tax season.]

During tax season, people work anywhere from 16-20 hours a day. This is 4-5 months from December all the way to April. This means you won't have a wife for about 6 months every year. Its really not surgery that is the only field where people go missing from the family.

I think that you just have something against surgeons.

[Asker]

[A medical doctor that is a dermatologist or pediatrician for example is much more desirable.]

there is a lot of study time, keeping up with latest technology, doctors have to also retake an exam to renew their licenses every few years. If they own a private practice, they would also have to make sure accounting , advertising is on point, take care of staffing matters...

If you want to provide your family a good life and your own kids a good upbringing, you must make the sacrifice. Money doesn't grow on trees. You gotta work for it.

[rigmarole]

Well obviously your're not capable of logical thinking. You probably won't even make it through organic chemistry so don't worry about it. You won't won't ever be a surgeon.

[Asker]

@rigmarole

I actually took organic chemistry and I received an A-. I've graduated and work in the healthcare field.

[rigmarole]

Sure you do...

[Asker]

@rigmarole

if you can't understand that success doesn't come without hard work, you can't be rich

[rigmarole]

You don't convince me in the slightest...

[Asker]

@rigmarole

i don't have to convince you because you can't face who you are.

[rigmarole]

Projecting doesn't do anything to help your case. It just strengthens the evidence for your lying...

[Levin]

They can be. An excessively career orientated girl is not attractive to me. I prefer someone nurturing, rather than someone overly worldly. Plus, there's probably a philosophical mismatch between me and her since scientific materialism has shown itself to be woefully corrupt and untrustworthy in the past three years.

On a practical level, I don't want someone that is married to their work, is stressed out all the time or is never there.

Someone warm, charming, a mind of her own, physically attractive and has a good moral character are some traits which are more important to me.

[Ohhi12345]

Dude, the fact you think that being a rich, competent woman could turn men off shows you know nothing whatsoever about men. It's not a diss, you just know pretty much nothing. And you don't really need to know a lot, except that it's gonna be a wayyyyy better dating experience if you don't go for the guys who are already swimming in female attention. My advice is to talk to the guy who women don't usually talk to, because that guy's gonna be super stoked and actually not treat you like a disposable item. Best of luck!

[Ricky_D]

I can see it to be intimidating to some men, the feeling of not being the bread winner will have some effect on him mentally.

I wouldn’t mind it myself because their are not many men that have the knowledge I have, some have specific knowledge and I have a wide range, jack of all things for the most part but master electrician by trade with endless capabilities. I know she would always be asking me for help. Then again she might choose to pay someone else to do what I can which will allow us to have more time to actually enjoy ourselves.

It would relieve a lot of financial stress for me I would hope! You know how things get with money though. I was with an accountant whom I married after six years of dating just to find out that I made the biggest mistake of my life two days later! She hated the fact that I made more money then her!

[WanderingLoveWizard]

Successful, smart women (like female surgeons) have enormously high standards and are usually single.

Men will date down, but it's extremely rare for women. So they're not a turn off, per se, but they're definitely not the kind of woman I do or would ever pursue

[zagor]

No necessarily. On a group camping trip I met a very attractive M. D. who worked at a major research hospital and her boyfriend was a cook. He prepared the meals for the trip and based on that I wanted to date him; never had such good food while roughing it.

[Asker]

@zagor

i personally have dated men who made less than me too. Its not that I prefer to date down. Its just that its very hard for me to come across a man that I can fall in love with. I've went out with plenty of successful , financially stable or even rich men where I can't develop any feelings for any of them. Money and prestige earns my respect but it doesn't necessarily mean I can fall in love with only that stuff.

I ended up falling in love with this 1 guy who was an EMT. I"m a nurse practitioner and I make almost 200k a year. My boyfriend only makes about 45k. Its not that I enjoy the fact that he has less prestige, its that I can't fall in love with anyone else but him.

[WanderingLoveWizard]

Ok ok. I stand corrected. Your anecdotal evidence has proven me wrong beyond a reasonable doubt

[Asker]

@wanderinglovewizard

i dont care to prove you wrong because we all know you're just a woman hater who is bitter cuz he gets rejected a lot by women

[ProbablyClueless]

That wouldn't turn me off at all, but I'm also an undeniably successful man. In my experience, and I think most men's experiences, the problem with dating successful women comes the men not feeling like the women respect them. Whether the women actually respect them will obviously be different case by case, but it's really tough to have a healthy, happy relationship with someone who makes you feel like you are super replaceable.

Even if you are replaceable.

[Anonymous]

No, but i would assume that you were only interested in dating men who earnt as much or more as you do (because this is explictly stated by the vast majority of women) and men with money are picking and choosing, using and abusing because they can and then you wonder why you can't find a man who wants to commit to you.

[monorprise]

Would you generally avoid someone if you knew they would have a hard time maintaining the respect ad admiration they need to have a healthy relationship with you?

[Asker]

if they didn't admire you, they wouldn't have ever dated you in the first place. It has nothing to do with them, it all has to do your insecurity.

[monorprise]

Tell me how does a woman decide to date a man on the basis of his career and income if she has no idea the true nature of such when she makes such choices?

A woman must agree to date a man based upon his looks and how he talks to her, thereafter when she finds out she is either acting on her hormones or her thoughts

[Asker]

@monorprise

i couldn't even understand what you had just written... it makes no sense.

[monorprise]

How can a woman admire a man for anything but superficial and often temporary reasons before actually getting to know him?

[Asker]

@monorprise

why would you assume that she didn't know him already?

why would you assume that she would reject every single man on earth who isn't a doctor?

[Asker]

why would you assume she isn't interested in you if she ASKED YOU OUT?

[monorprise]

The question is not would I assume she isn't interested in me, but rather the sustainability of that interest. If she simply finds me attractive, that will change on both sides, as we age it will be less important and less available. If she simply likes my personality or some interest, that too might change as life experience and opportunities do.

A solid relationships must be build upon mutually advantageous trade. In the case of Marriage that asset is children and security.

That security comes from loyalty which unfortunately no longer exist in the western world just like the so called institution.

As such any relationships in which a man cannot provide a consistently binding reason to remain is very likely doomed with "modern" women in said countries.

[ShesRad80]

i have had guys when they find out my job, not into my healthcare rank which is odd to me. like its a pissing contest with some guys, smh

[Losalt]

Some guys maybe...
But honestly in my experience it's more that girls just don't seem to feel like we're good enough for them if they're well educated and well payed.
While we generally don't evaluate a girl higher at all if she is.
So it may lead to a mismatch in expectations about who's actually potential partners.

[Asker]

@Losalt

because its usually the girl who will have to stay home to care for the kids once they are born. thats why a man's salary is more important than the womans.

[Pyrofox]

Not a turn off but its not fullfiling what a man who would want a family is looking for.

[Asker]

having enough money to raise a family is not fulfilling? sounds like something a dumbass would say...

[richardcory]

Successful is great. I'm probably not a great match for someone in the medical industry through.

[rachel776]

well the only downside i can see is you will be working a gazillion hours a week

[Asker]

not all surgeons work gazillions of hours a week. Those who have their own private practice work way less hours.

[DannyUk2017]

Not at all, it will just make some of us feel humiliated, as they are so "advanced" in career, and we are still on the lower side of scale...🤷‍♂️

[Lionman95]

No only a woman that uses her being smart and successful to make a guy feel bad about himself.

[Asker]

often times, a man will feel bad about himself simply cuz his ego is hurt. not cuz the woman is bragging

[Lionman95]

Fair. To me it´s in general not a turn-off. Only if she has an arrogant character in general. That´s what I meant.

[ericclayton]

I am a blue collar worker and I would love if I could connect with a health care professional. I just am cautious that a well paid professional wouldn't pass me up for another well paid professional.

[MementoMori777]

not to the proper person, there's someone for everyone out there, someone out there is gonna love it 💯

[DaBiggestBird]

No but it would give me the image of her thinking about what people look like beyond their skin. “Hmmm, I wonder what their insides look like”, that kind of thing. I don’t like this image.

[BoopBoopBeep]

Successful women aren't turnoff. The work schedule of a surgeon is.