Is the primary purpose of public schools indoctrination or education?

[KelleyNice]

Home school student and parent

Even though students taught at homes make up just 2 percent of the entire school age population, they are more than 10 percent of the finalists in this year's national spelling bee. They will make up an even higher percentage at National Geographic Society's National Geographic Bee. In 2021, 14-year-old Zaila Avant from Harvey, Louisiana, breezed to the Scripps National Spelling Bee championship on Thursday night, becoming the first African American winner and only the second Black champion in the bee’s 96-year history. She has been home schooled her entire life. In 2007 home schoolers walked away with top honors in four major academic competitions: The National Geographic Bee, the Scripps National Spelling Bee, the Intel International Science & Engineering Fair, and the first GSN National Vocabulary Championship.

Certainly children and learn if education is primary like it was over 100 years ago. Although, nothing in the exam is difficult to learn, how many modern day public high school graduates, let alone 8th grade students, could pass the following 8th grade 1895 exam?
https://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/p_test/1895_Eightgr_test.htm

[globetrotter22]

Overall I received a fairly decent public education. But without a doubt I was educated very thoroughly about the following:

- global warming and pollution (which is real)
- the horrors of Nazi Germany
- the horror of the atomic bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
- the dark history of slavery in the United States.

Now all of the above is fine. Students should be taught about those specific evils in history. But this is what I was never heard about in public school:

- China and India are exponentially worse carbon emitters than the United States and Western Europe.
- Renewable energy is often a misnomer e. g. lithium mining has arguably worse side effects than coal mining
- Imperial Japan terrorized the pacific and committed several grave crimes against humanity during WW2. Read about the “rape of Nanking” to see what I am talking about.
- the transatlantic slave trade started with African tribes capturing other Africans and selling them as slaves.
- Joseph Stalin arguably killed more people than Adolf Hitler

Now does all the above justify the atrocities western countries committed? Hell no. Not for a second. But the fact leftist public educators purposely omitted those inconvenient facts f*cking infuriates me. It’s disgusting.

At best they were ignorant themselves about those historical atrocities. But if they purposely omitted those facts than this really is communistic education.

[abc3643]

I wanted to comment on these specific assertions:

"- China and India are exponentially worse carbon emitters than the United States and Western Europe."
That's false. While China is the current #1 emitter of CO2, the US is #2. But, the real measure should be "per capita" emissions and the US is still very much #1 there and is about double of China

IEA, CO2 emissions per capita in selected countries and regions, 2000-2020, IEA, Paris www.iea.org/.../co2-emissions-per-capita-in-selected-countries-and-regions-2000-2020

- Renewable energy is often a misnomer e. g. lithium mining has arguably worse side effects than coal mining

-Renewable energy is a misnomer because of the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

Lithium has little to do with it. For one thing, lithium is of concern mainly for making batteries. Lots of "renewable energy" production have existed for generations and without lithium. Here's one that I drove over 29 years ago:

And here's and example of the type that's been working for hundreds of years:

And here's one that's been working 24/7/365 for about 5 billion years:


- Imperial Japan terrorized the pacific and committed several grave crimes against humanity during WW2. Read about the “rape of Nanking” to see what I am talking about.
Totally agree, that should be learned. At the same time, we can only put so much in the public school system, but that should be mentioned.

- the transatlantic slave trade started with African tribes capturing other Africans and selling them as slaves.
Totally agree, but that doesn't absolve the people who buy the slaves. That's the lesson that needs to be learned.

- Joseph Stalin arguably killed more people than Adolf Hitler
Totally agree and, usually, that is taught.

[abc3643]

===========
This is just a parenthetical...
The Wall Street Journal - no friend of liberals - did an analysis on the environmental impact of EVs versus normal cars. Here is what they said:
=====
www.wsj.com/.../?mod=hp_lead_pos5

Are Electric Cars Really Better for the Environment?
EVs produce fewer emissions overall than their gas-powered counterparts, but there are caveats
By Russell Gold, Jessica Kuronen and Elbert Wang
Published March 22, 2021 at 10:00 a. m. ET

Carmakers including General Motors Co. and Volkswagen AG are retooling their companies to make electric vehicles on the premise that their battery-powered motors are cleaner than gas-burning engines.

Are EVs really better for the environment, though? A close look at all the factors shows they are—but it’s a complex answer with some asterisks.

The environmental cost of a car includes both building it and fueling it. That means factoring in emissions associated with oil drilling and power plant smokestacks, as well as from mining metals such as nickel and cobalt that are needed for electric-car batteries.

The Wall Street Journal enlisted the help of researchers at the University of Toronto to examine this question. We began by comparing the environmental impact of two popular cars that are best sellers in their categories: a midsize sedan that runs on electricity and a more lightweight compact SUV that uses gasoline.

...

No matter what kind of engines they run on, cars add to greenhouse gas emissions. But the data show that switching from gas to electric vehicles will make a huge impact.

Consumers making individual choices between cars will make a difference. So will policy decisions made by governments and investments by companies as we drive into the future.

[abc3643]

Oh and this:


That's what MAKES lithium. It's doing so now in fact. Quite a bit of it.

[globetrotter22]

@abc3643 thanks for the detailed response. I also appreciate and respect that you did your research to back your claims.

As for global warming I have never been a denier. However my issue is how the left used people like Greta Thunberg to “argue” their beliefs. That actually drives some people in the oposite.

Also the Biden administration has this completely asinine attitude that “rising fuel prices will force people to think more about renewable energy”. This impacting the poor people the most and it’s not like they can afford a $80k Tesla.

[globetrotter22]

*opposite direction. Sorry for the typos I am using my mobile phone.

[abc3643]

Actually, this:

“rising fuel prices will force people to think more about renewable energy”

isn't asinine at all.

In fact, it's what we all did in the latter half of the 1970s and for that very reason.

Between the onset of the Arab Oil Embargo in October 1973 setting off the Energy Crisis (which never really went away) and Reagan's inauguration in 1981, there was a golden age of new research and development in renewable energy, conservation measures such as the 55 MPH national speed limit, and efficiency improvements (it's why you have an EPA Gas Mileage sticker on your car.) were all for that very reason: Because the cost of fuel was too high and we could not control it. Ask anyone who remembers the 1970s and gasoline rationing and mile-long waits at the gas stations.

Things were going well with the creation of ERDA (Energy Research and Development Administration) and the NRC (Nuclear Regulatory Commission) which were split from the old AEC (Atomic Energy Commission) and, later, the creation of the Department of Energy from merger of ERDA and the Federal Energy Administration. Lots of money being poured into making America both energy independent and clean...

But, by 1980, Big Oil - which were the largest companies on Earth then - saw all this investment in renewable energy and fostered by President Carter as a threat to their "raison d'être", so they needed to put an end to it. Thus, they funded Reagan's campaign and, once in office, he practically did end it thus setting us back for 30 years of R&D and investment. Fortunately, Congress wouldn't let him get rid of the newly created Department of Energy.

Ronald Reagan: A perfect example of what Marc Antony says in Shakespeare's "Julius Caesar".

"The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interrèd with their bones."

[abc3643]

The purpose of childhood education - public, private, or homeschooled - is to give you an indoctrination... Indoctrination in understanding the basics of the world, society, and culture that you live in so, when you are on your own as an adult, you are capable of surviving.

I've said this for years: "The purpose of going to school is to learn the purpose of going to school." Think about that, because it's true. You may not realize that at 13, but you will by the time your kids are school age.

[IsoUser]

In essence I couldn't agree with you more, with exception of teaching morals to your child. Now I realized that when I first thought this Velociraptors roamed the earth but I am not wrong it is free will that determines us equally. James R Reardon July 5th 2022

[letuswaltzforthedead]

Why not both? In the early days of schooling in the United states, education was mostly left to the parents. Parents, specifically mothers, tried teaching their children what they knee about the world as well as their beliefs. Of course there were already schools by the time the us became independent and even before that but it was largely just a community getting together, people who live next to each other and regularly talk are more likely to share the same beliefs. Later, largely due to the Catholics vs Protestants, the American government took over schooling (I think this was before the cold war, when the usa remained pretty libertarian/capitalistic). If home schooling have benefited children more like how helped Avant, what do you think public school is doing?

[letuswaltzforthedead]

Ok yeah, the first actual schools began opening since the 1600s. Nearing the American Civil war (meant civil not cold) the idea of having public education was proposed and by the beginning of the 20th century, over 30 states had laws for compulsory education.

[Adaeva]

Public school have become much like prisons. They don't do much education but they may excel in indoctrination.

[MTC29]

Even back when I was in elementary school indoctrination existed in the classrooms. I still remember this silly song that we were taught to sing:

"If you visit American cites, you may find them very pretty. There are just two things that you must be aware; don't drink the water and don't breathe the air.

(Chorus) Pollution, pollution, you can use the latest toothpaste. Then rinse your mouth with industrial waste."

I thought it was bullshit at age 10, and I imagine it is even worse now.

[IsoUser]

That's a new one for me and I was here when Velociraptors roamed the earth Lmao 😉😁😁😁😁

[IsoUser]

What on God's earth were they supposed to teach you then? Other than Hillary's nursery Rimes Lmao

[MTC29]

@IsoUser LOL. Yes, but this was in California.

Even then, there were hints of progressive Eurocentric socialism. I was simply too young to recognize it.

[IsoUser]

You're an Idiot

[MTC29]

@IsoUser That wasn't nice at all. I was going to follow you, but now I'm blocking you. I hope you are happy.

[RavVid]

Look the purpose of gov't schools has always had an indoctrination component.

My state Victoria in Australia was right into free education of the masses. For several reasons one of which was we had a gold rush and had pots of money and we saw ourselves building a nation. (Sadly we got pulled into being part of Australia).

Anyway my great grandad was part of this. One of the rationales for investing in this was to build morale fibre in the kiddies. It was stated quite clearly because the gov't knew what morale upbringing would otherwise be and the goal was to forge good citizens.

The gov't also knew what would happen in cramped housing and whilst it wasn't explicity stated invested in public housing. One bedroom for the parents, one for the boy children and one for the girl children.

The reason why children struggle in the essentials is because the 3 Rs have been cut down a lot to fit in gender studies etc etc etc.

Its gone off the rails.

[MikeInHawaii]

It’s indoctrination. Kids sent to Catholic schools are taught the Catechism and Dovma of the Catholic Church. Kids sent to government school are taught to worship government, hence the rise in socialism.

The average home schooled student tests in the 85tb percentile. You certainly seem more intelligent than more than 85% of the 13-year-olds out there.

[DaveJord]

Honestly, kids these days can do simple math. I have no idea what they are learning but its better than nothing I guess... you get what you pay for.

There day I learned that seniors in our state they can substitute American his for a class about Social Injustice.

Yup you heard me, indoctrination at it best.

[MikeInHawaii]

We spend more per student on education than any nation on Earth and have the lowest test scores among industrialized nations to show for it. We are NOT getting what we pay for!

Most of the increase in spending is going to administrators.

[DaveJord]

@MikeInHawaii Yeah were screwd, but as tax payers we're conditioned to getting the shaft. Its to the piont now when they slip it in we don't even flinch or grunt.

[MikeInHawaii]

Yeah, I guess we’ve been stretched like a cho mo in prison!

[DWornock]

Without any doubt, the primary purpose of public schools is indoctrination. Not one high school graduate in ten, let alone 8th grade students, could pass that 8th grade 1895 exam, even if the terminology was updated. Public schools are graduating black students that can't read their diploma.

[IsoUser]

Nothing personal but you're an uneducated idiot.

[DWornock]

@IsoUser That is an obvious false statement, Since idiots have IQs below 30, they wouldn't even know how to create a GAG account.

[IsoUser]

You're the exception to the rule an Idiot Savant

[IsoUser]

I'm going to be perfectly honest here, It's kind of hard to say one way I see Government creeping it's way into indoctrinating kids into believing things that absolutely aren't true, On the otherhand I see the reverse in the same way to the extreme. So I keep a closer eye on my kid's than ever before or since in my life my quote kids are in their 20's two twin daughters and one son but they will always be my kids! Period!!

[exitseven]

It used to be education/ now it is mostly leftist propaganda.

[Guy__]

I thought it was invented to send parents to work in factories while their children are trained to do the same when they grow up. So it never had real education as the primary goal.

[exitseven]

@Guy__ I grew up in the 70s and we were taught math and history. We said the Pledge of Allegiance every day and teachers were not your friends. My kids grew up 30 years later and they had teachers that let my kids call them by their first name and they used to tell my kids stories about stuff they did. Now it is just liberal indoctrination.
I work in higher ed and everything is biased towards liberals.

[Guy__]

The way you described 70s doesn't sound better, I don't consider reading history books and learning math real education.

While being friends with teachers isn't harmful either.

Real education would mean teaching "how to think".
Indoctrination would be "what to think" which looks like the history books from 70s.
Now they teach not to think at all.

[exitseven]

@Guy__ Meanwhile the kids cannot do basic math. I teach at a local college and sometimes assign a term paper. It is appalling how kids do not know sentence structure and cannot spell despite having spell check. Public Schools today are a dismal failure.

[Guy__]

I just read the top answer by Tom Siebert
www.quora.com/Did-CIA-Director-William-Casey-really-say-Well-know-our-disinformation-program-is-complete-when-everything-the-American-public-believes-is-false

[KelleyNice]

@exitseven In her YouTube interview with Jordan Peterson, Yeonmi Park said, her 4 years at Columbia University was a waste of time an money. She said, "I got into fight with my professor she was saying you know the fact that you're letting men holding door for you is you are giving in to their overpowering you and I was like you know isn't it kindness it's a decency, I would go for people too it's not like I’m trying to signal that I’m powerful than you and she was like you're still brainwashed from North Korea." To maintain her GPA she has censor herself.

[exitseven]

@kelleynice I had a professor in grad school in a course in managing of technological innovation. I wrote a paper that was critical of Obama's energy policies, particularly Cash for Clunkers and making fuel from algae. I said it sounded like he lifted it from an episone of Star Trek the Next Generation. This professor was not amused.

[HighValue]

It depends on where you go to school most likely. Where I am in liberal California there is definitely an indoctrination agenda to make students think men are bad, White people are bad, Christians are bad, and that they can change their gender. Yes, even elementary age kids are having this BS pushed onto them.

[Avicenna]

Teachers are told exactly what they're going to teach and how to do it these days. It's mostly education, but the amount of indoctrination is worryingly high and is increasing.

[peedy]

Indoctrination they are teaching thd children what to think not how to think dumping them down, do you know that what I was thought 35-40 years ago is not being thought anymore instead some mess up fill with hate version of of it is

[peedy]

Goes along with taking all the statues down the are changing and erasing history to fit the agenda

[Chazmatazz269]

I don’t think i can speak fairly about the current state of public education. It definitely seems like we’re churning out more dummies every year! And i’ve read and heard some startling things, but i have no dog in the fight so it’s mostly hearsay.

[Bricealan]

Sometimes, I have to ask myself that SAME question.

[Bricealan]

Looking back on my undergrad classes, I see SO much indoctrination from the leftist, professors, it is sickening.

[FunkyMonkee]

It's SUPPOSED to be education but, these days, it's more indoctrination!!

[Anonymous]

These days the US public schools are all about indoctrination and controlling the masses. That's why liberals and feminists have a stranglehold on the public school system and are so against a private school voucher system.

[Sixgunsound]

I’ve had several multi paragraph responses to this question erase already, if the truth hurts too much just ban me already

[KelleyNice]

If they have been removed, they have not been removed by me. I almost never remove replies and never if someone answers a question I asked. I might, if instead of answering the question, they make a personal attack. Even then, I am more inclined to respond, at least the first time. Now, I may have down voted you if that is what you mean. However, even if you are down voted, it may not have been me.

[Sixgunsound]

Not that, I was talking to whatever moderator keeps taking my replies down. I can deal with being downvoted, most people don’t want to hear the truth. Being disappeared is a different story.

[KelleyNice]

Obviously, I have not control over what a moderator does. Almost all, if not all, media and social media practices censorship, regardless of the truth, if it is not politically correct. I don't approve of that but GAG appears to censor less than most. I've noticed, that even if true, GAG doesn't like the "N" word or some variation, when it doesn't comply with the so called prevailing beliefs.

[Sixgunsound]

It wasn’t that at all, in fact the people who other people say that word about are hurt the most by the way education is run in the United States. I was just providing an inside perspective on exactly how the Marxist and feminist have destroyed the idea that education originally was intended to be, and it keeps getting taken down.

[jamesgoldman]

Indoctrination, I've been there in the past 10 years and saw it firsthand so can say with no doubt

[AimeeKyle]

It used to be education but unfortunately it has migrated to indoctrination.

[TallAnon]

Overwhelmingly education. If indoctrination was the goal, they would be much more efficient. No, education is actually very important for the welfare of a country and its economy. If you're looking for a reason, follow the money.

[globetrotter22]

It used to be that way. But the indoctrination she is talking about is a very real threat.

[007kingifrit]

indoctrination and education are synonyms. they mean the same thing, it's a matter of if you agree with what is being taught

[Guy13]

Indoctrination gets my vote...