College graduate have higher average incomes than high school graduate. Does that proves on average you earn more money by graduating from college?

[DWornock]

I maintain that proves nothing because you are comparing the incomes of very bright highly motivated people with with those having lower IQ's and less motivation. It is similar to the ridiculous argument that since women earn less than men, they are paid less for doing the same work.

[msmissydc]

In Science you dont 'prove' anything. It does support the hypothese though.
You are on the right track though. It is not a direct causation nor direkt correlation. Neither is inteligence and motivation though to higher income I would argue. Inteligence and motivation alone only works in rare cases when the person is able to do something brand new, which correlates more to creativity.
There is a missing link between a higher paying job and a college degree. Employers mostly use college degrees as a measurment tool and even a barrier whom to put into higner paying jobs.
Also another important part is, that beside inteligence, knowledge is an even bigger variable towards higher income and college degrees DO cause a rise in knowledge.

As you mentioned it yourself: yes it has similarities in a way. There are many missing intervening variables between the two variables. Lets not continue this part though as most people I argue with dont even know the difference between the adjusted and non-adjusted version which is essential to the discussion and I am not in a mood to explain that part.

[provokeesmokee]

Statistically speaking, yes. Getting a college degree means earning more money.

But there's definitely people who can and will out earn graduates without finishing high school.

They're usually entrepreneurs and good with their hands, providing necessary services and knowing how to charge what they're worth.

They could also have traditional jobs and still out earn, because they have superior skills than a graduate.

But for most people, the easiest way to get a pay bump and opportunity is to get a degree.

[DWornock]

That is true for those with high ACT and SAT scores and 3.5 and above averages in high school. However, half the students don't take the test and, even if they did, they would have 17 and below ACT scores, and their high school grades are C's and D's and that is only because of grade inflation. No decent college will accept them because if they did, they would flunk out.

[provokeesmokee]

Studying and effort can overcome a lot of that, bud.

[DWornock]

Obviously, that is false because people have different abilities. If that was true, I could play in the NBA.

[provokeesmokee]

No, not necessarily. It isn't a vacuum.

You could be a great basketball player, but if you don't perform at a high enough level, you won't to pro.

I find the biggest difference between grads and non-successful non-grads is that graduates have learned to work hard and persevere. Non-graduates haven't had the same ability build those mindsets and skills, unless they seek out those environments themselves.

It isn't unfair for people who put in more time and effort than you to perform better than you.

The consequence of someone's own inaction will catch them.

[Anonymous]

No, it does not prove you earn more money by graduating from college since there is very likely to be selection bias. And knowing that is the sort of thing you SHOULD learn in college. BUT sadly today I'd say MOST college grads have approximately zero understanding of basic statistical inference and probability theory. And then several of those dipshits go on to jobs in journalism.

[DWornock]

I knew a Journalism student. He was very bright even if he was not a logical thinker.

[Opinion Owner]

Having read a fair bit of journalistic output I can only conclude that the vast majority are neither particularly bright nor logical thinkers.

[exitseven]

It took me 3 tries to get through college, I had to drop out twice because I ran out of money. In one program I only had one more year to go and I tried to find a job in that field and nobody would give me the time of day. It doesn't matter how motivated you are , if you don't have that piece of paper you are out of luck.

[DWornock]

The degree doesn't get you a job except for making Subway sandwiches. However, sometimes, you don't get an interview without a degree.

[exitseven]

I knew plenty of people who had that extra year and graduated and they all got good Jobs

[DWornock]

So what if you know a few exceptions. Exceptions do make the rule. Now a days, very few college graduates are working in job that couldn't be done by a high school graduate. The average income of people in trades, welders, plumbers, electricians, etc., $66,465 is is higher than the average college graduate, $59,600. That is not higher that the average salary of long haul truck drivers, $53,000. Most people earning less are food servers (Denny's), or clerks (Walmart). Therefore, for most people a college degree is not worth much and there income is based on the efforts and abilities, not a degree. It is your lack of ability that prevented you from getting a high paying job.

[exitseven]

@DWornock I majored in Electrical Engineering. A high school grad would not have a clue.

[DWornock]

An electrician can wire a house. Very few electrical engineers can do that. Certainly you cannot or you wouldn't have has a problem getting a job.

[exitseven]

I went to electricians school and worked for an electrical contractor. I am afraid of heights and really could not work on tall ladders or those elevated platforms. I ended up becoming a network engineer instead. Again, the average high school grad could not just jump into this field.

[exitseven]

Thanks for the MHO😎

[Anonymous]

Actually you are comparing people who might have got their degree as far back as the 1980s to those who got theirs in 2021. College degrees have become so common in 2021 that graduates are struggling to get good paying jobs with many working for minimum wage or unpaid internships that aren't going to give them a job.

Literally anyone can go to college now and slog out a basic degree. Really now you need to stay a few years more and focus on a specific subject.

[LiamJHayden]

Nope. It proves that college grads make more than mere high school grads, not that those people actually going is what made that possible. That might be why, but it is not proven by the data, as the data are comparing college grad vs. high school, not those college grads vs. what those same people might have earned had they not gone.

[Daniela1982]

What good is a higher income if you have $500,000 in student loans? Most will agree that if you only have a high school education. your job prospects will be less. Yet lots of people with no college degrees made it to the big time.

[midnightmoon05]

Generally speaking…agree.
but does the statistic show how much college loan they took out?