The median income of high school is 60% of college graduates. Do you believe going to college is the reason or is it IQ differences and other factors?

[Kelley1]

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I am certain if you compare the median incomes of people with IQs of 120 and higher that are dependable and motivated to succeed with the median incomes of people with IQs of100 and below, many of whom are neither dependable nor motivated to succeed, you would get very similar results. That is because college graduates have IQs averaging, 120+, they are dependable or else they skip too many classes, and the must be motivated or else, since college is hard, they would not graduate.

[HighValue]

Median is often a terrible way to compare. because that just takes the high and low number and selects the number in the middle. For example, if out of 100 people, two make $100,000 annually, and the other 98 make $40,000 the median would be $70,000 even though almost all of the people would not be anywhere near that. Median is almost always a terrible method for comparison. It is often used by people/organizations that want to influence others with deceptive data.

Also, that graph doesn't take into consideration how much student loan debt the college graduate has to pay each month for the next 15 + years, or the higher tax bracket. There would need to be a more detailed study showing net/take home pay after taxes and loan payments for an accurate comparison.

[elaphe]

I believe you are conflating median with mean.

[exitseven]

The type of person that has the ambition ot go to college and put up with crap for 4 years and sees it through until the end is the type of person that generally does better in life instead of somebody who does not try to make their lives better or dropsout before they finish.

[exitseven]

Thanks for the MHO

[Kaneki05]

Eh some people with high IQ just don't care education or income. Someone who had IQ can't remember his name was just a artist who painted art to people because he liked it. He didn't bother with anything academic.

It's also a bad way of gathering data, just think about this for a moment the only way we know someone's IQ is by doing a proper IQ test right?
Guess what 99.99% people never do. So who's to say there aren't a decent percentage of High IQ's who just aren't motivated by education and never of course take the test.

I think I am one such person but that's a bias of course. Just keen observation of other's irrationality and my rationality. And been able to pass most of my exams without any studying just from what I thought made sense to answer said questions. Most things I wing yet excel at.

But maybe I am not. It does not defeat this idea though that there is 99.99% of people who just never get tested so it's bold to assume such sweeping generals.

And I do think learning one thing and studying one thing is not a hard thing for any average IQ, that's not telling of IQ that's just telling how well you remember but not how well you actually understand it. So nah I disagree college is hard.

I always love it when people say other generals on IQ, like oh you must be low LQ if you smoke. Einstein causally smoking even with been fully aware it's bad for him he wasn't dumb, doctors then told him not to and he just carried on by going out and taking people's left overs cig butt ends to put the tobacco in his pipe lmao. The Gremlin lol.
100% would do the same.
People high IQ are still as stubborn and prone to do things as someone with average.
It's more how they are done and reasoning why that's differs.

[Kelley1]

Since blacks average 15 IQ points lower, it is not politically correct to do IQ tests. However, there is a very strong correlation between IQ and SAT and ACT scores and many people takes those.

[Kaneki05]

Should just do them anyway or have it option in school to do one of you want would be quite intresting.
But it's not everything so I can see the point of not doing it. Having a higher IQ makes it easier so I would say there is of course going to be some stats showing a relation.
But there is just a lot we don't know and if one really works on something they can do it with enough practice.

Another factor that could sway such things is schools don't properly keep up to level of people with high IQs and does not cater to every students capability
So a lot may fall through the cracks. Then there is home problems. All kinds of factors lead to whether someone takes up higher learning or not.

Nobody would really know, but I would bet there is a decent population of people with better than average IQs who just never get that drive or situation to get recognised.
Plus high IQ with low EQ can for sure create many social issues. Which could effect studying in terms of enjoyment tbh probably makes it more enjoyable focusing on that rather than people. But it can be hard going to college with such people in the first place.

[Kaneki05]

If you want*

[D_Bone_Steak]

You got to question where these numbers come from first. There are usually reasons and factors they're not considering. I'll give 2 examples of arguments that are grabbed onto by Normies out of ignorance.

1) Wage gap<--They'll see a difference between the average pay between the genders, and then jump on the 'inequality' train instead of considering women choose certain jobs (usually more social rather than object-oriented) and have different behaviors such as choosing fewer hours and more time off.

2) Race facts<--I love this one, because a common response to a question like "Why do so many black people get on welfare?" They'll look up a quick stat that shows more white people are on welfare and that's where they stop. It's as if they've never heard the term "per capita" at all. Their brains don't stop and think, "If I took a random 100 of x and a random 100 of y, would there be a reason this person is asking this question?" Try it with violent crime, serial killers, and rape... it will make you racist if you weren't already... just ask my black friends 😆 😂 🤣

So let's look at your source

Just eyeballing your graph, I can pick out some common flaws and some non-considerations in order to get those numbers. I don't want to do the work, but plug that into Chatgpt and ask AI to poke holes in it... ask it for the flaws. It will tell you.

MHO's are already picked, so now I'm going to wait for my superb opinion award.

[Reporepo378]

Definitely the latter. Many people who graduate and get college degrees are still unable to find jobs at their level and are overqualified for lower end jobs. And many other reasons and things

Remember colleges and univeristies are just state sponsored businesses here in the west. Their purpose is for profit. Large tuition and high interest and putting people in debt, and creating useless degrees like gender studies and such to reel even more in. While the notion is taught that college is the way to success, which it can be, but especially in this day and age, you are more likely to be successful not going to college and pursuing a career that does not require it, such as the trades for example

Now im not saying college and university is bad and all, education is good, but it is far far far less useful/worth it especially for its money and time investment, then to go without it

With that being said it is most likely IQ and other factors. You dont hear much about the large amount of college and university graduates who have high level degrees but are not able to find jobs at their level, or if they do, are still not paid that well. Many successful college graduates end up not using their degrees and instead become entrepeneurs and other careers. Also not to mention those who played D1 college sports and made it to the professional level earning millions which will undoubtedly raise the median salary difference

[HawkPerception]

There's definitely a correlation between certain levels of education and intelligence and in turn, how financially successful you'll be. However, it's definitely not the only indicator for it.

College does tend to help set you up with a job that pays higher than entry level positions. Meanwhile, those that only finish high school, struggle with those entry level jobs or try to establish their own source of income (freelancing or starting their own business).

Education isn't the only factor indicating how financially successful you'll be. They say that there's a strong correlation up until the top 5% of earners. After you hit the top 5%, IQ actually shows a slight decrease.

[patois]

I can tell you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer... First most college graduates are of average intelligence. It's the nature of the bell curve. Second, the tax bracket changes significantly between those two incomes classes. Third, college graduates typically have to commute to work into some major city to some centralized large company, where as low wage workers typically work close to home servicing the community. If you compare some one like a gas station clerk to the median income of a college graduate with a bachelor's degree and account for differences in tax brackets and the cost of commuting, you basically end up with comparable take home pay. That's the sad reality of the modern economy. If you want to see a real difference in earnings you have to work in an in demand field and either get a graduate or professional degree, or become a trade worker and start your own business. Just getting a typical college degree doesn't get you anywhere these days.

[patois]

Go ahead and rationalize this math for me... Percent of the population with at least an IQ of 120 is 9.1%.

According to the U. S. Census:
10.5% of the population has an associate degree as their highest level of school completed.
23.5% has a bachelor’s degree as their highest degree.
10.8% has a master’s degree as their highest degree.
2.1% has a doctoral degree as their highest degree.
1.5% has a professional degree as their highest degree.

[patois]

How can 48.4% of the population have completed at least one college degree, but only 9.1% of the population have an IQ of 120 or over?

[patois]

If only the smartest people were completing college degrees, then the threshold for IQ would be 100 in order to fulfill that percentage of the population. An IQ of 100 is dead average. In reality, not everyone with an IQ of 100 or over completes a college degree and a number of people under an IQ of 100 manage to complete at least one college degree.

[Kelley1]

I agree the percentages don't add up for IQs of 120 and above.

[madgoat]

University is as much about opportunity, financial backing, commitment, previous education, family expectation, and an aptitude for education, as it is about intelligence.

I'd be surprised if a detailed study could not explain away much of the disparity that your graph shows.

My suspicion is that collating together a vast number of subjects which lead to a vast number of jobs will completely skew any nuance.

[Serkee]

This is for recent graduates, not people the same age. Of course someone with a new bachelor's degree is gonna make more than someone fresh out of high school. A better comparison would be between people of the same high school graduating year, one group with degrees and the other group with diplomas. That gap would be a lot closer.

[Kelley1]

A much better comparison would be identical twins. One goes to college and get a liberal arts degree. The other goes to trade school and becomes an electrical contractor.

[DrPepper12]

I'm a twin. I got 2 masters and my bro never got further than his associates. We both make roughly the same money.

[Kelley1]

@DrPepper12 Since you are would have similar IQs and motivation, that is not unexpected. Especially, if you only had bachelor degrees. They are a dime a dozen and typically have little value. However, a masters is cut above which I believe should result in a higher income.

[DrPepper12]

He is a 25+ NYC NYFD Chief now. He rose through the ranks where credentials not a pre-requiste

[genericname85]

well with a certain iq you won't get a dergee. that's one aspect. the other aspect is that a lot of employers who pay better demand for people to have a degree. cause that proofs they were capable at university. it's more difficult to find out if someone is fit for the job who has no degree. and if you spent all that money to get your degree, you gotta make that money back. so i guess most graduates would rather not work for less simply cause they invested more upfront.

[OtterMan68]

it's the failure of the US education system. We need to do better preparing kids who don't want to go to college or who are not college material for jobs other than menial low-wage service industry jobs.

We need to invest more in vocational jobs, so the kids not going to a four year university aren't stuck with a worthless high school diploma, but can be plumbers, welders, blacksmiths, carpenters, LPNs, seamstresses, etc

[elaphe]

It is both, probably. In my state of Illinois, the median salary for welders is 46,000, 55,000 for electricians, 64,000 for plumbers, and 73,000 for teachers. Of those, only teachers have to have a four-year degree, and education is on the low side of monetary compensation for college graduates. Those other careers don't require four-year degrees, but they do require training past high school and in many cases an apprenticeship, which can be very difficult to secure.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

No. College is extremely overrated in today's world compared to the 40's and 50's.

Today's economy and labor force has changed a lot from what it was 50 plus years ago.

In today's world the money is found online with businesses or just learning a good trade.

Plumbers and electricians can make up to 100,000 plus a year.

[captain_voidwalker]

I've seen what graduates from college, I'm not impressed. Let's see a chart that looks at tradesmen vs college grads income.

[DrPepper12]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👍🏻 ☑️🎯💯

[Kelley1]

Trades Provide an Attractive Salary after School
Not only does a trade school education cost less in time and money, but it also provides a desirable salary. Those who attend trade schools make an average salary of over $59,000, according to the U. S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. This can be even higher depending on the trade you specialize in. A plumber’s salary can range up to $97,000, depending on location, education, experience and specialized licenses.

Those entering the workforce from a trade school can also make their salary go farther, with fewer years of school to pay for and little to no educational debt.

[captain_voidwalker]

Not to mention trade work is much more stable. I'm an electrician myself and work is abundant

[jahaims]

People that go to college on average come from better off families so they have help. Also those numbers are skewed because they would include 1% earners which make up a small amount of the population.

[Surely]

When I retired. My income was greater than the college grads. I went to a tech school while in high school. But, no college! Unfortunately, I have met college graduates who couldn’t do simple tasks if it required a little common sense! Mental math is almost an impossibility with today’s students!

[FuqUFggt]

I dropped out of High school amd make 30 percent more than the national average. I regularly fire college graduates that couldn't even make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. I have no debt to forgive and only carry the USD I need that month to pay my bills. Everything else is tied up in assets and real money.

[Astarlessnightsky]

Jobs that require a higher level of education are usually paid better.

[LiamJHayden]

It makes sense. Many high-paying professions require, or usually require, a university edication, and people with lower mental capacities are incapable of achieving that.

[DrPepper12]

Give em the chance, a majority will surprise you if money didn't get in the way

[andreasderjuengere]

Getting into debts for years or decades

vs.

Earlier earning at a constant rate.

Who is smarter now? :D

[AngryCarl]

I don't think it has anything to do with IQ, just high-earning professions need a degree as an entry requirement.

[Kelley1]

People with low IQs don't become doctors.

[DrPepper12]

Attending college can be very accurately predicted simply by looking at zip codes which are proxy for affluence. Nothing to do with IQ.