Is college worth it?

[msc545]

Here - then keep telling me it isn't:

Subtract the income earned after college graduation from the total cost of college attendance and you get the return on investment, or ROI. A San Francisco Chronicle analysis of California colleges included a surprising finding: Graduates of the state's public UC and CSU systems enjoy median 10-year ROIs that are roughly double those of their private-school peers. A sampling of the figures:

Private institutions: Chapman University: $38,000
Loyola Marymount University: $59,000
USC: $170,000

Public institutions:San Jose State: $193,000
UC San Diego: $216,000
UC Berkeley: $243,000

Updates

11 d

In retrospect, I think the failure of this data to specify the major (s) that were looked at is a problem.

[OddBeMe]

Yes college is always worth it. Onvisouou that comes with specifics and logical decision making. Trying to pay for tuition you know you can’t afford is stupid. But getting loans or grants to invest in your future will only mean MORE money over lifetime compared to NOT going to college.

I think credentials figured from Labor Dept is 68% higher earnings with a degree. And college loans are the easiest to bargain, refinance etc because the govt knows it’s best to have college debt than credit card debt.

Also, fyi, all your entrepreneur heroes who dropped out (A) had huge investments right out of the gate (mostly from family. (B) still had a 1 and a million shot of success. So play the odds, get the degree (even if it’s community college) and live happier never shopping at Dollar Tree.

[SotiCoto]

Last I checked it wasn't a question of "worth it" or not.
Having a degree became more and more essential to employment as time passed... but the cost of getting one also rose exponentially and rapidly reached the point of inaccessibility...

... And that brings us to where we are now: Where what is necessary for everyone is too expensive for anyone... so capitalist society expects the poor to either live their entire lives in crippling debt... or... just die in poverty without a job.

It is a no-win situation. Once again, the very rich have simply rendered life implausible for anyone who isn't themselves.

[Kelley1]

It depends on the college and the major. Comparing the lifetime earnings of college graduates vs. high school graduates and implying the difference is attending college is a lie that only stupid people believe. You get the identical results by comparing the lifetime earnings of high IQ people vs. low and average IQ people.

[msc545]

If the difference is not attending college, and the samples were otherwise randomly selected, what do you think the difference was caused by?

[Kelley1]

Obviously it is the difference in IQ. Minor factors are attending college, motivation, family background, and culture. Ask, who is more likely to go to college. Those that excelled in high school or those that didn't? And, who was more likely to excel in high school. Those with high IQs or those with low and average IQs?

[msc545]

Iq scorch you're not a reliable measure of success most of the time

[msc545]

Sorry, that should be. IQ scores are not a reliable measure of the probability of success. In most instances. I hate autocorrect.

[msc545]

I don't think you really understand how IQ scores are derived and what they actually mean. You might want to look at the research regarding this. They are not what you think they are.

[Kelley1]

For whatever reason many people hate the fact there are IQ differences in the races so they invent all kind of garbage to try and prove otherwise. It is called political correctness. However, they don't argue against other differences such as average height, skin tone, athletic differences, and average eye color. However, I am not interested in arguments that attempt to disprove the obvious.

[msc545]

@Kelley1 You have no real understanding of the statistical and methodological complexities and problems associated with comparing IQ scores. It is not as simple as you apparently think it is.

[Kelley1]

Perhaps that is true but you have even less.

[msc545]

I taught graduate-level statistics and research design.

[Kelley1]

So what? Educators lack the reasoning ability to recognize that socialism is not successful.

[msc545]

I am not an educator. You, conversely, have no ability to reason. Be sure to answer this !!

[dustybiker2]

You'll still have trouble finding work. A lot of people waste time and money on a decent education and blow it with a bad personality. Unless you are entering a field where the education is required I feel its more "who you know".

[msc545]

Education is generally required for all decent jobs.

[dustybiker2]

Yes, but not everyone can afford or get funding for those top jobs education.

[msc545]

If you wanted badly enough, you can do it. There are scholarships and loans.

[dustybiker2]

Didn't help me.

[msc545]

It still can if you want it.

[dustybiker2]

I actually do, but I wouldn't be able to now anyway.

[msc545]

why not?

[dustybiker2]

Sorry I missed this notification. It isn't something I'm going to share on gag. No offense to you.
There are several things I would decide between going back to school for though.

[Dinklex3]

Depends on what you’re majoring in.

A bachelors in liberal arts may not be the best.

[exitseven]

It really does not make much difference what college you attend. It is more important what you major in. People that spend 300k to send their kids to some fancy college to major in Theater Arts are going to be very disappointed.

[msc545]

good point.

[exitseven]

I woemrk in higher education and see this close up. The biggest scam is the year abroad. The kids just go over to Europe on a big vacation and do not learn anything

[msc545]

At least maybe they have a little fun and relaxation. That is not a bad thing, especially in the middle of college where people are generally exhausted. I know I was and I enjoyed that year in Europe

[ProbablyClueless]

My complaints about my education are more about soft factors than the education itself.

I'm publicly educated. Even though I haven't seen a ton of return on my investment yet, the size of my investment is a lot smaller than it could have been.

[JacobJordan]

College is not worth it. I say this while holding both a masters and a bachelors in a field that pays exceedingly well and a field that allowed me to get ahead in life. I was only able to do it because I qualified for a full ride to any college of my choice.

[msc545]

What field are your degrees in, Jacob?

[JacobJordan]

Biochemistry and chemical engineering

[msc545]

Those seem like really valuable degrees. Do you work in that field now?

[JacobJordan]

I did. I am only "working" as a owner/financer of 2 labs now. One in the US and one in France. I approve hires, I approve pay, I ensure they have contracts with government funding (a big part of where the pay comes from). Handful of other things. I put working in quotes because I very rarely am on site and most days I don't have to do anything. Our last hire was 7 ish months ago. He is doing well from what I hear so could become a full time lab tech once he completes his year here.

[msc545]

Sounds good. I doubt you would have this work were it not for your degrees - correct?

[JacobJordan]

Hmm. Well anyone can own a lab, anyone can get contracts etc though understanding the scientific portion of contracts would require education. So it is possible that one could reach the level of work without a degree. Though they would need a biochemist or some other scientific person to understand the contracts and what is needed. Thing is to reach that level it would have cost me around 600k maybe a bit more which is a massive investment given the roi one would see for many years after obtaining the degree/work

[msc545]

That is a lot of money. Where did you go to school?

[JacobJordan]

Yale. Almost went to Harvard but I was born in CT so decided it could be worth it to visit my homestate.

[msc545]

So even then you paid a lot of money to go to school. It sounds like you've made a lot of money since then. Do you still really feel that it wasn't worth it? And would you like to go back in time and change it?

[JacobJordan]

I wouldn't change it. If I were to have only the money I made off work and have had to pay for tuition, room and board, food etc I would still owe for roughly the next 8 -12 years. If one is able to get a full or mostly full ride college can be worth it but it very much depends on field

[lightbulb27]

in some cases, if the skills required are built there along with the required degree.

it's expensive now, so definitely do the math. I suspect many could learn by apprenticeship better and there are other models that be more cost effective. However, it's another system controlled by government now for the purposes of managing the economy. They aren't going to release their grip.

[msc545]

Actual professions don't have things like apprenticeships.

[lightbulb27]

I learn better that way, we should. doesn't mean zero college, but having a "mentor" is important... if good.

[msc545]

I think that having a mentor is a great idea, but the problem is it's almost like having a full-time teacher. He's extremely expensive..

[LazerBean]

It's only worth it if you choose the right degree and college.

[msc545]

The nature of the degree seems to matter a lot; the college does not apparently.

[LazerBean]

Exactly. "The right college" is simply any college that doesn't require a ton of money.

[msc545]

No, the right college is the one that provides you with a good education. There is no point in going to a cheap college. If you don't get a decent education from it. That would just be time wasted.

[LazerBean]

I went to a cheap college. It is the third best college in the entire state for the degree that I wanted, and I got it in half the time that the other two comparable colleges would have taken. But at the end of the day, nobody really cares what college you went to as long as you have the degree. People who say a "good" education requires a bunch of money and time have been brainwashed by librals

[msc545]

You really cannot keep yourself from throwing politics into absolutely everything you say here can you?

[goaded]

I was just looking at an article about UK universities, which not only breaks it down by subject, but sex, as well.

https://www.bbc.com/news/education-62237170

[msc545]

Very interesting although I have trouble matching it to the situation here in the US.

[goaded]

I'm sure, especially as I'm not clear what "college" means in the US context. The UK has, I think, mandatory schooling until 16, another level until 18 (often called college, but in my day it was "sixth form"), then university, where you (hopefully) come out with a degree.

I think only university involves directly paying, just under £10,000 a year, for tuition.

In my day, us poors got a grant that was enough to live on each year (and no tuition fees), but a relatively low proportion (10%?) of students went to university. It was common to move hours away from home. (I know, that's not a long way to and American, but it's across the country for us!)

[caitycat21]

If you’re disciplined and get the right degree in a field you enjoy, yes absolutely

[Xia1994]

It’s only worth it if it’s going to help you be qualified for a job that’s what I think but it’s really expensive 😳💔

[Xia1994]

Or shall I say it can be pretty expensive*

[msc545]

Having a bottom end job because you have no education worth talking about is even more expensive.

[Xia1994]

Tell me about it 😭💔. I can only imagine💔

[msc545]

Higher Education is free in Germany. Take advantage of that.

[CriticalCatDad]

Colleges and universities are leftist indoctrination centers. Not worth it. I regret having gone and am glad to have dropped out. You don't even need college to be successful anyway

[Anonymous]

Statistically yes. But I'm a firm believer that half your earning potential is in your ability to sell yourself. So all your degrees won't mean jack if you are bad at selling why you're worth the money.

[msc545]

You don't really understand. Certain degrees and credentials sell themselves. Mine certainly do.

[Opinion Owner]

Certain degrees. Not the majority. Bottom line college is worth it. I'm just saying it's important to be able to sell yourself in this world. I would also recommend people attend a 2 year college to begin with to reduce your overall tuition cost. No cares where you begin, only where you finish.

[msc545]

Medical degrees engineering degrees and professional degrees in general sell themselves because they are relatively rare in numbers.

[Opinion Owner]

Yep, you said it yourself "relatively rare in numbers".

[msc545]

They are not easy to get.

[nastyb]

it depends on what you major in. Any major within the medical field, STEM, math will garauntee you a job.

[DishLady]

Honestly? It depends on a lot of factors and since COVID is frankly say “no” for the most part.

[LiamJHayden]

Yes, the major is very important. STEM or law or medicine, worth it. Ph. D. in Gender Studies or History of Ancient Babylon is a waste for almost all.

[RedInnocent69]

Agree with your update. A professional discipline starts higher than a general arts degree.

[darkcloud1945]

If you choose a non woke institution your education might be worth something as long as is not a degree in advanced basket weaving or some other useless degree costing tens of thousands of dollars.

[Anonymous]

I am a medicine graduate. But I realised it's not what I want to do in life. I have no escape from it so I'm just going on perhaps until I die

[Iron_Man]

My relatives have gone for years and years and what did they get out of it?

[VV3ZZY123]

Yeah if you want to Enter the Rat Race and Work hard so you can spend more and be In more debt.

[Anonymous]

If you go to college and aren’t making 100k in your first 4 years you should take yourself out of the game.