Is the most powerful thing a woman can do say no to sex?

[Sixgunsound]

Think about it for a second. Im not asking a feminism or economic question. I'm going to let the cowardly trolls jump in as an object lesson in lower tier thought.

[Lliam]

I feel sorry for women who allow their lives to be controlled by the few people who think that premarital sex is sinful and virginity is virtuous. Women shouldn't worry about the kind of insecure, immature guys who refer to themselves as "high status" and think virgins are a prize. There are way more guys - grown men - who admire grown women.

"Self-actualization (also referred to as self-realization or self-cultivation) can be described as the complete realization of one's potential as manifest in peak experiences which involve the full development of one's abilities and appreciation for life."
Virginity has nothing to do with "high status". It's just compliance.

The ability to make one's own decisions about sex is no more powerful than the ability to say no to ANYTHING that one doesn't want to do. What IS powerful is having agency, making your own decisions, and not falling for coercion?

What's NOT powerful is allowing the attitudes of a few people to control your life and dictate your happiness.

Virginity does not = "high value". That's a scam by the kind of men who think women are inferior and shame them for being independent. They think virgins will be meek, dependent, compliant servants.

"Virginity is common among adults 18 to 24 in the US, at 53%. After age 25, fewer global adults are virgins (18% of adults 25 to 29, 9% of adults in their thirties, 6% of adults in their forties). For young adults, sex is hard to come by – at least in part because many live with their parents." So guys who want virgins are looking for little girls.

It's one thing to say no to coercion. A woman absolutely has the right to make her own decisions. But it's another thing to refrain from sex entirely. That's like refraining from eating tasty food, sleeping on a comfortable mattress, or swimming in the ocean.

Not one of my girlfriends were virgins. They had been in one or more relationships before me. They weren't promiscuous. They were actively seeking relationships. They were pursuing the dream of getting married and raising a family.

But they weren't stupid enough to postpone life until some guy married them. Like most girls, each one wanted a boyfriend. They fell into infatuation and gave their all to making the relationships work. They pursued life to the fullest. I admire that. And they all eventually achieved their dreams.

They had lots of sex with their boyfriends, but their pussies were no worse the wear. What they gained was knowledge, life experience, maturity, and priceless memories.

Why would anyone think that someone who wouldn't commit 100% to relationship unless they had a signed legal contract would commit 100% once they were married? And what about sexual compatibility?

[Sixgunsound]

As always you have a right to your opinion. Have you encountered the body count debate? Apparently there are quite a few men who do value virginity, and not for the reasons you say.

[Lliam]

I agree with you, bro. Everyone has a right to their opinion. No prob. My opinion is mine alone. And, over time, I have even come to disagree with some opinions I held earlier in life.

My problem is when people are mean and judgmental. And some guys on GAG are jerks in that regard. Using terms like high value, low value, slut, chad, simp, alpha, etc. just indicates low self esteem and lack of worldliness.

Why don't they just do what they want to do instead of spewing negativity on-line? I'm sure they can find their precious virgin if they try. Beyond that, why are they obsessed with anyone else's behavior? I think it's because they harbor negative attitudes toward women in general. They think women are inherently inferior, dishonest, manipulative and mercenary.

Oh, I've definitely encountered the body count debate here on GAG. Never in real life, however.

I have respect for people's personal beliefs and values. But I disagree with those who seem to have a religious fervor for trashing women and holding up podcasters like Jordan Peterson as experts.
And then they point to studies that claim that the more relationships a woman as been in, the more likely she will be to cheat or get a divorce when she gets married. Bla bla bla. Generalize much?

People who believe what they want to believe and need affirmation from others.

My only problem, really, is people hating on women and shaming them for living life. Is a woman's only value to go to seed, start popping out a man's babies, and dedicate her life to someone else (husband and children) before she has ever experienced life?

[Sixgunsound]

What I was trying to say was that it is more empowering for women to realize and believe their inherent value and capitalize on that power to say no as a mating strategy to weed out the men who are less worthy of the woman's time. My point is that women have great power as gatekeepers of sex, but the current fashion is to throw that power away.

[Lliam]

I agree with all that, except for the second part of the last sentence. I don't think women who enjoy sex throw their power away. I think they embrace their power when they follow their own conscience and values instead of surrendering to social norms and dictates of others.

Women have every right to be choosy. They are entitled to follow their own life path without being shamed and slandered by others.

[Lliam]

@Sixgunsound. Wow. Thanks for the MHO, sir.

[Sixgunsound]

I consider thoughtful replies more helpful than instant agreement.

[Lliam]

That shows true character. 👍🤝

There are people who ask questions and make their own opinions clear. Then, if anyone has a different perspective, they become instantly abusive. They don't even discuss. Why did they even ask a question if they didn't want to hear answers?
Some dumb girl did that the other day with a question about Tucker Carlson.

[Effably]

Something something... power resides where people think it resides. It's a trick. A shadow on the wall. And a very small man can cast a very large shadow.

Back when GoT was still a great series. Still, if you choose to see power in that, there is. I see someone potentially denying themselves something they want. Not acknowledging yourself is, to me, far from being powerful.

[Sixgunsound]

Do more men pursue the village bicycle and volunteer to pay for what all their buddies got for free, or do they compete for the virgin who has integrity and strength of character and would be a better investment for him because she can resist temptation?

[Effably]

You and me have very different values and would probably pursue different women. Which I think is good.

I tend to view the women I do like as more powerful than most. If for no other reason than the fact they made me like them.

[Sixgunsound]

So the sole determining factor of their greatness is your subjective interest?

[Sixgunsound]

I'm not attacking you I'm just trying to fully understand your perspective.

[Effably]

Yes! And I think you asked a fair question. Civil, reasonable and so on. No need to apologize mate.

To me, if I think they are great they are. Is there an objective great? If there is not, what better subjective view to use than your very own? Of course my romantic interest is not strictly needed.

Of course I do strive to be available for re-examining my views. Changing our ways is also a powerful thing, to me.

[Sixgunsound]

I was looking at it from a mating strategy most likely to produce long term committment and provide the greatest amount of resources to her and children perspective. I probably should have been more specific. Perhaps 'is the ability to gatekeep sexual access, specifically the ability to say and mean 'no' the most powerful thing a woman can do to win in the sexual marketplace? I doubt many people would answer that question though.

[Effably]

At a core you're only asking if being selective about your partners is a benefit to you when wanting something long term. And generally? Yes.

I do think your phrasing will give the wrong vibes as far as getting a response goes.

[Rosexøxø]

I don’t see why anyone places such a sanctified view on sexuality.

From a religious historical mindset, yes, it’s special and such.

From a mating and scientific standpoint, it may not be the wisest ofc, but it’s certainly not an issue or a degrading matter.

Why is so much value attached to sexual acts? Is it not just a stimulation/ sensation?

[Rosexøxø]

@Sixgunsound you are married though, so maybe you can highlight the value you place on loyalty and such, but is sex something of loyalty? Or is it just an action?

I mean, why would men act as if it is special if many men probably do not connect with the women on a mental level or emotional level, other than simply recognizing what they both did and that simultaneous recognition- produces a high called bonding?

[Rosexøxø]

So called*

[Sixgunsound]

@Rosexøxø just like I don't blame all women for the relatively few whom are shaking what the've got for a couple of quid on only fans, I don't think all men are at fault for the misdeeds of a few. If you get a chance look up what oxytocin is and does. I would argue that sex should be a bonding experience. It's entirely possible we have different ideas concerning love and sex, which is fine as we are all individuals. Personally I would rather have a woman who is less adventurous and promiscuous than a lot of younger single men would prefer, but I attribute that to age and maturity and the ability to make long term plans, which does not seem to be particularly popular among the youngest 'adults' today.

[Rosexøxø]

Yeah I see and while keeping it respectable I never found anyone loyal as myself so I have it up tbh.

I’m sure no one plans a life with their partner while being a virgin also- those are as few as a solar eclipse.

And truthfully I’d wonder why it’d bother some committing couples who are already

“Sexually/ marketing value wise/ and other- secured”

I’d like to know where everybody is going with these views on sexuality. It never seems to be consistent or even practical or so 🤔

I am only 20, though. I will say that confidently and humbly if that’s possible lol

I mean no harm. I’m just a bit bothered by what anyone would be trying to prove with their own lifestyles not matching up, and why is this some umbrella concept or one size fits all.

What is everyone actually thinking and maybe this sexuality doesn’t even really matter. 🤷‍♀️🤔

[Effably]

Look at you two keeping it polite on my opinion. Good on you.

Personally, while I acknowledge being someone's first can be special, I would feel better knowing she has a good idea of what she can have and still decides to choose me.

I actually think my viewpoint is pretty common. But it might be a confirmation bias of similar people getting along.

[Sixgunsound]

For tens of thousands of years women had the self-respect and self-esteem to make men earn their physical attention by proving they were capable of protecting and providing for her and any eventual children before sexual access was given. That way if she did become pregnant it was a happy event instead of a terrible one. Codifying marriage laws did two things, one for each gender. It gave beta males a chance to reproduce by incentivizing women to choose to be the only wife of a common man instead of the 10th wife of a rich and powerful man, and it gave women the assurance that a man who got her pregnant would be responsible and provide for her and the child. In the days before paternity tests were reliable women's virginity assured that he wasn't wasting resources and time and affection raising another man's child.

[Rosexøxø]

This would be more stimulating and fun to answer, if it were just a general question.

A woman saying no to sex is not the most powerful- it’s her abilities to aggravate intentionally and frustrate a male’s plans, to lower the esteem of another female, to comfort those hurting, to inspire children, to bring humanity to political problems, to bring preservation to aspects of society and the planet such as nature and so on.

A woman’s frontline is her psychology, her compassion, her seductive charms, her relatability, her gentleness, her sentimentality, her appreciation, and her passion. Women are so highly emotional- I gotta give it to them- my sisters: you’re some of the most passionate and loving people on this planet.

[Sixgunsound]

How could I make it a more general question?

[Rosexøxø]

What is the most powerful thing a person can do? Or what is power?

But I think you perceived my comment as a more general question for women, and I meant more general for both genders and letting power just stand as power. Not being tied, or limited to a specific gender/ scenario/ set of scenarios.

It’s your question, though. I hope it helps many. 🙏

[Sixgunsound]

The ability to say no encompasses a few of those things; I didn't exclude being sexy or charming or seductive from saying no, and that certainly frustrates some male advances but shows a mature man the value of investing emotions and time in a woman who can resist his best efforts because she can likely resist the efforts of other men when he is not around as well. I pointedly asked the question in a way that did not imply a value judgment or that this is her only power, just that it is the most valuable power to her and the most likely mating strategy to get a high status male if what she brings to the table is equivalent. It is a reasonable expectation that women would test men to see how they handle setback and frustration, such as do they react violently against someone weaker because both the woman and any potential children would necessarily be physically weaker and endangered by male physical aggression motivated by anger. It is equally reasonable for men to test women's strength of character such as her ability to resist temptation as this has mundane and life altering economic consequences; i. e. will she waste the rent and grocery money on purses or shoes, as well as will she cheat and cost him everything he has worked his entire life to earn?

[Rosexøxø]

I read your reply to another user maybe a question like:

What’s the most powerful thing men and women can do for themselves?

What’s the most powerful thing a woman can do, truthfully, without any bias to gender stereotypes- just her being powerful for herself as a woman?

Who knows I’m sure someone can phrase it a few ways even better than I.

[Rosexøxø]

Ahh I like this method of thought, and you’re right on the women side! I have tested men in that exact concept before!

Not recently though 🤔 not sure will have to reflect.

I think the test of men seems reasonably accurate as well.

There’s good logic behind this, and now your question makes a bit more sense with some added context.

[Rosexøxø]

Profound!

[Rosexøxø]

I wish you would’ve made a my take on this as well! 👐👀

[Sixgunsound]

I think women have more power over sex than men do, as evidenced by who does almost all of the rejecting assuming the potential partners are of equal status. I wanted to k ow how other people thought about the power women have as gatekeepers of sex, and how that effects consciously planned mating strategy, possibly from a psychology perspective?

[Sixgunsound]

There is a lot more raw power in saying not to a man trying to get sex from you than most women will ever realize.

[Sixgunsound]

I'll do a mytake tomorrow when I can plan the phrasing better.

[Rosexøxø]

Yes, I’d be interest to read 🤔😃

[Msputiton]

Naw.

Sex isn't special to me, so it is too easy to be like naw.

Just like a man, the most powerful thing a woman can do, is standing up for her beliefs, and not backing down

[Sixgunsound]

Say those beliefs were in her own self worth or demands for committment though. Saying no to hookup culture would instantly raise her sexusl market value because she has something valuable that will take a lot of effort and resources and time, and will be able to resist other men's attempts as well. It comes down as you say to the value placed on sex by the individual. It's a generational and cultural thing too.

[Msputiton]

But you are generalizing that this is the most powerful thing women can do.
It's not for some it will be, because her beliefs are refusing to let someone in because she believes it is wrong.
But if another woman believes it is wrong to allow society to shame her for expressing her sexuality, and she has sex when she feels like having sex. That is the exact same thing.
And let's be honest the way society shames women for showing any kind of sexuality it takes a lot more courage to face the anger, and shame thrown at her than a woman who refuses to be sexual because society wants us to be this timid nonsexual being.

[inhua]

that's what Jordan Peterson said and he's absolutely right but these days low quality guys (not low value guys) are being rewarded with sex for not putting in the work but just for being hot and this destroys any incentive for others guys to put in the work

take Jeremy Meeks for example, that hot felon had women fawning over him so it's no surprise he never improved from a life of crime until his imprisonment

the worst part is when these guys who do put in the work then choose to reward these promiscuous women and wonder why their relationships fail but then again we live in a culture that shames men for having preferences, so there

[Rosexøxø]

You mentioned two different Jordan’s today. I thought that was cool.

I wonder if you subconsciously like that name, or even if your real name was Jordan. Who knows? 👐👀

[Sixgunsound]

Reputation and value are hard to build and easy to destroy. In today's culture I would see a woman who wields the power of 'no' having fewer one night stands but also attracting higher value partners who see that she is worth more than a pump and dump tinder date. More men will marry an inexperienced virgin with a great personality who can cook than are lining up to spend the rest of their lives paying for someone else's sloppy tenths while their friend (s) regale them with tales of her young libertine days of wild sexual abandon.

[Magosmall06]

I wouldn’t say it’s the most powerful. I’d say the most powerful thing a woman can do is stand up for her beliefs and walk away from people who aren’t right for her whether it’s family, friends or dating.

In a dating aspect, even if I like a guy, if he’s rude to others or just wants to have only have sex and no commitment then I will say no and I’d say that’s powerful because I stand by what I’m looking for and I won’t agree or say yes to things when I’m not fully okay with it e. g casual sex. I’ll only have sex with someone who I’m dating. But every woman is different and there’s nothing wrong with casual sex. Everybody has their own preference etc.

I think it’s more powerful to be yourself and be happy, walking away from people who are negative or who are toxic

[TheSpaceGnome]

No, because sexless relationships usually don't last very long, and I don't respond to that kind of thing (the "do this or you don't get that" kind of thing).

I'd say the most powerful thing she could do is probably pressure for/initiate sex.

If I'm dating her/married to her, and she's giving me affection, saying no is like trying to fight mind control super powers or tv versions of hypnosis.

I can't be bribed with sex, but if she wants it, she's getting it.

Now if I'm not dating her, saying no to sex gives her power in the sense of retaining virginity being a selling point (for lack of a better term). But thats far less powerful than turning my muscles into noodles with oxytocin buildup just by hugging/kissing me.

[Sixgunsound]

I'm looking more long term mating strategy than short term social gains. In a relationship where there is an emotional bond before a physical one, the likelihood of stability and marriage and committment is higher. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it is far less likely to be a successful female strategy to get someone who will stay in the picture as a responsible father if they raise their body count with impulsive fuckboys.

[TheSpaceGnome]

That I agree with.

[Billlewis]

I think you're close, but to me, the most impressive display of power a woman can showcase is refusing to let a beta male wimp get his dick inside her -- while she makes it abundantly clear that she hasn't chosen not to get fucked -- she's merely chosen another guy to grant the privilege of fucking her to. Not getting any pussy is one thing, but when we know that some other lucky guy is getting his dick inside you, that's what really drives us crazy... lol

[TrueConfection]

That's easy for a woman to say and for a man to hear. I think it's more powerful for a man to say. Most women would fall apart if a man said no to sex with her.

[Sixgunsound]

A lot of younger men DO fall apart when they hear it though. To the point of paralysis in the presence of a woman they think is too beautiful for them to talk to. The more often rejected the more likely they are to give up and go their own way.

[TrueConfection]

Oh! That's too bad. I always admired how men were able to let most things roll off their backs. I suppose you're right, times have changed.

[LazerBean]

Personally, I think saying no to sex is a super basic thing and one should not be praised for doing the bare minimum.

[Sixgunsound]

In 2023 for young single people that cannot be taken for granted most of the time. You were lucky enough to be raised and socialized in am environment that taught you self worth and self respect, but not everyone gets that same experience.

[NathanDavis]

it would take a very weak person to be overpowered by something like that...

[Sixgunsound]

Have you met modern young adults🤣🤣🤣

[NathanDavis]

glad I didn't have to grow up online... lol

[NamerOfStars]

I think Antigone would like a word with you...

[Sixgunsound]

Haha. I haven't heard anyone putting that production on in a long time. High schools lately seem to prefer Disney (Anderson or Grimm) stories or English assignments...

[Mayo503]

No not really women can be powerful in many other ways

[Sixgunsound]

'Most' powerful allows for a theoretically unlimited number of other powers. 'Only' would not allow for anything else.

[Rosexøxø]

🤔 yes good things said here. I’m a fan 👐🙂🥳

[NostalgiaSenpi]

That would depend upon how you hold her to begin with. To a homosexual or asexual man, she would have no power whatsoever in that case.

[Sixgunsound]

You make a legitimate point.

[Sixgunsound]

Nothing says lesbians have to have sex with any woman who asks or offers though. Saying no would still apply in that context.

[Leopard23]

What is power?

[Sixgunsound]

The realistic ability to meaningfully control their outcome.

[Leopard23]

On my experience a man refusing a woman sex gives him great power over her. It's the rejection they can't handle.

[Sixgunsound]

Fair enough. We all have different experiences.