Why so many western men are mgtow?

[Mh1999]

You never see a Lebanese or Turkish or Japanese men doing so.

Updates

+1 y

Ignore Japanese think about Turkish and Lebanese

[AuroraRoseat]

I personally find it to be a response to the privileged being angry or upset that marginalized groups are getting equal access and bemoan their victimhood and mainly about their self-interests.

A lot of what I see is selfishness under the guise of anger like Feminism is the destruction of family and children. The man desires that but if the woman does it, she should just suffer quietly like many do in other parts of the world? Or Feminism made it harder for men to get dates (because the women finally have a voice that men have had for decades?). It is all about what they do not have that the past men got to enjoy... at the suffering of women.

[AuroraRoseat]

*But if the woman does NOT*

[AuroraRoseat]

Do see these responses? Rife with selfishness (women are abandoning traditional ideals (constructed by men, of course), sexual liberation destroys relationships (even though our patriarchal society ENCOURAGES men to sexually objectify and pursue women), women see men as unncessary, etc.). It ALL translates to selfishness.

They victimize themselves at the expense of women who don't want to follow traditions that limit their rights. They also severely misunderstand Feminism.

[grega239]

Men had no voice until 100 years ago
Traditional ideals weren't created by men.
And what is the point of feminism?

[AuroraRoseat]

That's not true. They had voices, ruled society via dominating situations in which power was unevenly distributed. The "traditional ideals" were created by those in power... which were men. And the point of Feminism is to 1) end patriarchal societies which negatively affect both men and women and 2) equality across race, gender, sex, and all other spectrums.

[grega239]

No they didn't. Men were forced into wars, if they refused they were executed. The primary victims of genocides were combat able boys and men.
Societies were ruled by the rich. That includes women who had the title of queen, empress and so on.
Men didn't create gender roles. Nature did.
If you want to protest patriarchal societies , go to the middle east, where women are 2nd class citizens. Not a single Western country can be described as patriarchal. Especially when the majority of the west made women exempt from military duty despite the fact that you have voting rights.2. every Western country has made it illegal to perform genital mutilation on women. Men literally don't have the right to make choices about our own bodies.
Gender equality is a fantasy bcs in case you haven't noticed, men and women aren't the same. Racial equality has. Been achieved. No law says otherwise.

Furthermore. You bringing history into the conversation is not an argument. you're a 28 old woman. I doubt you experienced anything even resembling oppression.

[AuroraRoseat]

@grega239 They were forced into wars by those in power which were... men. Women had those titles, but no power came with them. They were essentially trophies. This is apparent throughout history.

Nature does not create societal roles for men and women to follow. So simply because a woman can give birth, that means she must stay at home, cook, clean, and take care of the man? No. It doesn't work that way.

Patriarchal societies are any societies in which power, leadership, social privilege and more are dominated by men. America is one of them. The Middle East has extreme examples, but America is not excluded.

I can tell that you are highly ignorant. Racial equality has been achieved when minorities are still being discriminated in housing and jobs, unjust stereotypes are rampant, black men are imprisoned at an extreme rate, poverty affects mostly minorities and more? No, not everyone has the same opportunities and most certainly not everyone is privileged.

Gender equality can be achieved socially if men realize that our society oppresses them AND us. Whenever a little boy is told that he can't play with a "girl" toy, whenever society tells you to not cry or show any emotion that could be construed as feminine, whenever men are turned aside if they ask for help and considered weak, that is society DEMEANING men and boys.

Also, my age has nothing to do with not facing oppression. I'm a woman and I've dealt with injustice plenty of times in my life. Some people are younger than me and have faced more. You've committed a fallacious argument and I feel it's a waste of time to continue any discourse. You can have the last say though.

[grega239]

The fact that feminism has reduced history to " men are tyrannts, women are victims" proves that feminists are willfully ignorant about history

[grega239]

Really? Women had no power? Joan of Arc, an illiterate peasant teenage girl. She was given command over the French army in the hundred years war. She's been made a french national hero.
Queen Boudicca. She and her daughter's were raped by Roman soldiers. She raised an army of about 100000 men and lead them to war. died in combat.
Harriet Tubman. A black woman who helped many slaves to escaped from the south to north.
There's many more but I made my point.

If men created societal roles, why would they not send women out to hunt and fight?
Take care of them? Men cared for women and vice versa.
Not to mention. Most animal species function according to their gender roles. Or are you gonna say that male chimps oppress female chimps?

Societies are "dominated" by men bcs we built the fucking thing. And we die doing it.

Black men are imprisoned at an extreme rate bcs they commit crimes at an extreme rate.

The majority of combat deaths are men.
The majority of homeless are men.
Workplace deaths are majority men
Most suicides are committed by men.
The majority of victims of violence are men.
people who do worse in school are men.
The most dangerous and shittiest jobs are done by men.
Men have a shorter life expectancy than women. Wheres the dominance here?

The reason men are told to not be weak is bcs we're men. that doesn't make us oppressed. It's our nature to be that way.

I faced injustice. For example, women who were paid the same wage as me despite the fact they did less work than me. Not to mention some of them did their job so poorly , I had to correct it. And they still made the same money

[Isten]

I haven't heard of MGTOW outside of the internet and I'm from Eastern Europe. We are behind Westerners in many stuff, but we are better off than the Middle East.
The MGTOW seem like the type that never goes out to socialize, so I guess the chances in real life to meet an MGTOW are extremelly low.

[blondfrog]

I am not I think it's just as bad as feminsm.

[blondfrog]

Thanks for mh.

[DECENTSCOTTISHLAD999]

Not me l am from Scotland

[FakeName123]

Japan also has that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbivore_men

It's what happens when the scales are being shifted towards women and men don't get enough out of it. Essentially at this point having a woman in yourlife in any western country is a liability. Divorce, rape-charges, no reproductive rights for the man, etc.

Furthermore thanks to the sexual liberation movement and women beng pushed into higher education (despite many educated women later on saying they regret doing so - in Germany there was a study 2 years ago where about 80% of women who went into higher education regretted it and not focusing more on family instead) many of these women have ridiculous high standards and monogamy got devalued.

You have to understand that women are hegemonic. As much as most women try to deny that fact, there is undeniable proof about that. Women absotuley desire men who are higher up the social and economic hierarchy than themselves (though smart women have different values of what they consider high value men - for some it means simply a man who gets shit done, but for most it means social and economic success). But if women at this point in time are more often in higher education than men, how many women are willing to date down? Not that many. Middle-Eastern Countries don't have that problem, because women are always beneath in the social hierarchy.

Or in short: Young women are too occupied with their careers. Once their biological clock starts ticking, they go for men that are above them which is a fewer percentage than the women looking and eventually no one settles down.
And the sexual liberation made it so monogamy isn't the standard anymore which gave the chance to men who aren't at the top of the social hierarchy to also get a decent woman.

And in the end you have issues like that British dating-company who is overrun by 35+ women and can't find enough men anymore. Because men don't want to pick up the leftovers and be the last choice before the ovaries dry up, either.

[Mh1999]

Many Lebanese and Turkish women are very educated i am myself have plan to study for being engineer and do my master abroad

[Mh1999]

In countries like iran most engineering student are female in Western countries it's usually men

[FakeName123]

1. This is something that only recently came up that middle-eastern people went to study in other countries. It's a very new development altogether.

2. "In countries like iran most engineering student are female in Western countries it's usually men"
And how many of these women end up WORKING as engineers? I guarantee you it is not that many. Iran had for decades fairly high numbers of women in higher education, but most of them still get the social pressure that they are worth less, if they don't marry and have children. The education more often than not is just a sign of "this woman is smart so the children can be smart" than actually of use.
Additionally studies have found out that in countries where women have less freedom, they are more likely to strive for male-dominated fields of education. Iran is no exception.

3. That doesn't change the fact that the prevalent religion and as a result culture puts men above women in value. I've dealt enough with turkish and middle-eastern people to know that this is in 95%+ of the cases a fact.

[shinka1y234]

To stop mgtow men should be above women? That is what i understand. And in turkey we have still many problems which affect woman. I know girls who have to drop out the school after elementary 'cause their parents want it or girls who are pressured to wear scarf. Also virginity is really important for woman and that is why virginity regain operation is so popular. So i think feminism is needed in turkey.

[FakeName123]

@shinka1y234
And as a result culturally men are seen as above in value than women. Meaning every woman marrying is essentially having a hegemonic marriage per se.

In a more free society that's not quite the case and men are demanded to proof themselves of high worth and high (er) value through their actions and achievements.

[Truthatanycost]

LOL, look up Japanese herbivores...

Read this www.businessinsider.com/herbivore-men-in-japan-are-not-having-sex-8-15

''"Among male respondents, 17.9 percent reported little or no interest in having sex — or even an extreme dislike of it," the Japan Times reports. "The proportion came to 20.3 percent for men between 25 and 29, up 2.5-fold from the level in 2008."

[GuidoThePizzaMaker]

I think there is a frustration with the "rebellious woman"
Sexual liberation has destroyed men and women in the west.
MGTOW is a movement for men who have become so frustrated and disappointed by women that they decide to give up on them all together. This is exactly what the oligarchs wanted!

Lebanese people have a stronger sense of identity. Sexual liberation hasn't effected them as much. The Lebanese I know are Christians and they are faithful and definitely not MGTOW. I Imagine the Muslim Lebanese are the same, as well as the Turks.

Japan is different, its like WTOW lol.

There is 1200 page book called "Libido Dominandi: Sexual Liberation and Political Control" By Dr. E. Michael Jones, which basically details how Sexual liberation has destroyed relationships among western men and women.

Fuck MGTOW, its subversive and lame af. We can fight the system by getting married and making babies.

[TonyBologna25]

Because men in those countries don’t have much of a reason to go MGTOW. Divorce laws, and the dynamic shift of relationships and marriages really disadvantage men for the most part. I’ve heard some really bad divorce horror stories, and some men just chose to not even bother again after being cleared out financially and emotionally. In those countries you listed, the dating and marriage dynamic is entirely different. I’d still like to get married, but if a man doesn’t even want to bother anymore after a situation like that, then that’s his choice.

[Sweatyotterr]

People are starting to realize that men and women dont have much in common. For example in America most men are conservative and women more liberal. The women are very sjw here, Not sure about Europe but I assume the same. Also women are more career minded nowadays and I read that more and more women prefer to be single also there is a ton feminazis in a america and us men obviously dont like that

[Sweatyotterr]

Who the hell downvoted me this was one of my more toughtful comments I put time into this bitch

[No_Archons]

You also don't see japanese and turkish women doing the things western women do

mgtow is obviously a reaction to the state of women. Mgtow aren't making demands like they are, they are simply refusing unreasonable demands.

[No_Archons]

*a female dislike appears*

imagine my fucking surprise

[Dchrls78104]

Japanese men are not going near women these days, to them women are "too bothersome". In the West feminists have made women despise men or see men as unnecessary, or else have made it dangerous for men to date or approach women for fear of being abused or jailed for rape or sexual harassment; the men are getting the message and going MGTOW.

[MackToday]

Loss of tradition through nihilism and cultural Marxism. Traditional culture exists for a reason, it's in sync with human nature and promotes reasonable living conditions that help people to thrive. Take that away and you get nothing.

[DDpsy]

The Japanese have gone way over the MGTOW phase. They gone straight to fucking marring their sex doll peculiar.

As for Muslim men they are completely irrelevant.

[Mh1999]

No they are not

[DDpsy]

Dream on.

[Mh1999]

Whatever

[Anonymous]

Cz Western women are constantly degrading in character in the name of empowerment. In the name of rising out of oppression, they are rather becoming more selfish, self centred, ethically corrupt, and unworthy of being respected.

[Opinion Owner]

You can dislike my comment as much as you want but the truth won't change. Women just want material love and pampering without offering anything. And once the love and pampering stops they move on to someone else who can offer it. They do not even compare to men when it comes to romantic gestures or making your partner feel special. They feel like entitled princesses in the modern society and so there are these men who decide to do hell with them and mind their own business.

[ShadowofRegret]

I certainly agree.

And that is why I am still single, because of the over abundance of entitled princesses running about, I want a real woman, not a parasite leeching off of me without giving anything in return.

[AuroraRoseat]

You're wrong. Your answer belies your irrationality. Not all (Western) women are as such and you're painting generalizations with a wide stroke.

Even IF men are feel romantic feelings more deeply than women (and that can't be measured, so how do you know), that isn't something that should be applauded. That is due to society forcing men to suppress their emotions to the point in which they could not or do not know how to properly manage them. Women are encouraged to manage our emotions here--men are told to shut down. Grandiose romantic gestures/feelings that you believe come from a depth that women can't reach aren't the only feelings that dwell there. The extreme violence that some men show their lovers (through anger), violent hatred and more exist in plenty of men.

And society forces you to constrict them instead of managing them in a healthy manner. I wouldn't be happy.

[abc3643]

It's because the Internet has enabled them to remain immature and selfish.

[Immanuel_Kant]

Family courts create MGTOW, the Internet just allows them to rant about it.

[abc3643]

@Immanuel_Kant No, MGTOWs create MGTOWs because they are too immature to deal with life's setbacks and are all "Woe is me! The big bad matriarchy of the courts is all against us!" Fucking grow up and deal with it! If the men actually understood how to behave and communicate with women like actual mature adults to begin with, they wouldn't be in family court.

[Immanuel_Kant]

14% of men get custody, regardless if they filed or not. I’ve watched the community and the younger MGTOWs are created by the older men and the older men come out of family courts most of the time. I’m not defending them, simply clarifying the point.

[abc3643]

@Immanuel_Kant And maybe that's just the way it should be.

You know, as I get older, I tolerate fools and idiots less and less and have discovered, much to my shock, that idiocy on this planet - especially this country - is increasing like metastatic cancer.

I try to put into terms what I did for a woman two weeks ago.

Due to evolutionary pressures, most societies on Earth are "patriarchal" - men dominate leadership positions. This means that men are the dominant power at making the laws... and this includes the laws of Family Court.

So, if MGTOWs want to bitch that their conversion to MGTOWism is due to Family Court, then they use their weak intellect and attempt to realize that the root cause is NOT women, but their fellow males of previous generations; men who understood the realities of child development and the inherent unfairness of physiology borne about of 4 billion years of evolution on this planet.

[Immanuel_Kant]

I don’t know what you’re getting all worked up about, I’m not MGTOW man lol. Also what on earth is a evolutionary pressure? You mean societal pressure? Most MGTOW feel that they’ve been betrayed by the common “simp” man and hold them as contemptible as women from what I observed. They know they’re small in number yet they hate enough for a small army haha.

[abc3643]

@Immanuel_Kant
No I mean evolutionary pressure.
That means conditions in the environment which drive evolutionary changes. Societies evolve in the same way as species do.
For an interesting read, look up/watch "Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies" by Jared Diamond. It won the Pulitzer Prize and became a 3-part PBS series.

[Immanuel_Kant]

I’ve read GGS, I mean what does reproductive changes brought on by the environment have to do with the family court system? Psychologically a child is best raised in a two parent household, male and female. I’m quite sure we agree on the premise of the sciences behind our stances.

[abc3643]

@Immanuel_Kant "Psychologically a child is best raised in a two parent household, ____male and female____"

Actually, no. The APA determined this from metastudies that this assumption was false.
https://www.apa.org/about/policy/parenting

[abc3643]

Anyway, I am done with this question and am muting it. I am just fed-up with the immaturity of the people that I am handing this planet off to. I thank God I didn't have any kids because I saw this shit show coming since 1981.

[Twenty2]

Because women are becoming feminists there and leaving traditional values. Lebanese, Turkish are traditional and feminine. Japanese are having less sex.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Because there are many western Feminism. Kinda like fighting fire with fire. Anyways I'm an Egalitarian. If they think MGTOW and Feminism is equality then they're wrong.

[theWhalers]

Because western guys don’t know how to handle women that can be independent and strong

[Landshrk0068]

Japanese men are also doing it. But to answer the main question, feminism is the root cause of it.

[Vulture051]

Their women aren't Lebanese, Turkish, or Japanese.

[genericname85]

Cause Japanese and Turkish men have traditional women still xD

[CoffeeWC]

Western men who are MGTOW in response to Western feminism.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand why women concern themselves with guys who refuse marriage or dating. Women don't need men. What's the big deal?

[AuroraRoseat]

1) Plenty of us need you. You are necessary for romantic fulfillment and completion to many women (as well as other reasons).

2) Personally, if a man doesn't want to marry or date, that is fine. But these men who are replying to this post are very disturbing. I don't want their ill-informed beliefs intentionally perverting other men or women. I also want them to reflect on why they feel such a way. I think most--with honest self-reflection--would realize that they hold anger because of self-interests.

3) If your response was sarcasm, good on you. You made me response seriously.

[Opinion Owner]

@AuroraRoseat it wasn't sarcasm. If a man wants top remove himself from the dating pool, I seriously don't see how it affects anyone else. They're usually the unwanted ones, anyway.

I agree with you about them being angry and spiteful due to self-interest. On the other hand, a deep look into human behavior shows that almost everything is a product of self-interest. They argue that women date and marry because of it, women argue that they refuse to date and marry because of it. I argue that you're both right and the situation needs to change so that it's mutually beneficial. Nobody likes to be taken for granted or used

[Anonymous]

Guessing because Lebanese, Turkish, and Japanese don't have to deal with American women

[Anonymous]

we don't have time for all the bull crap that a lot of women around here are putting out.

[Zach1457]

because the middle eastern countries are poorly developed

[Mh1999]

Nah they are not

[Zach1457]

they are. but at the society side

[Mh1999]

I don't think so either different culture doesn't mean that they are poorly developed and all middle eastern countries have different culture.

[Zach1457]

all of their cultures are smilar each other. arabic culture. society is poorly developed

[momo-22]

The question is do you wanna be with a western guy? If they are Mgtows , why do you care?

[Logorithim]

Would we even hear about it in the West?

[Mh1999]

Internet lol mostly

[TURK-CONQUEROR]

Japan have the most MGTOWs in the world.

[Mh1999]

In internet i usually see Western men

[TURK-CONQUEROR]

The Japenese call MGTOWS Herbivore men. Herbivore men or grass-eater men is a term used in Japan to describe men who have no interest in getting married or finding a girlfriend. The term herbivore men was also a term that is described as young men who had lost their "manliness". The term was coined by the author Maki Fukasawa in an article published on 13 October 2006. The term also has close ties in meaning to "ohitorisama" which roughly translates to the act of living alone and performing tasks independently of other people. Kazuhisa Arakawa, creative chief promotional director of Japanese PR firm Hakuhodo that has published Men Who Won’t Marry, said that companies should watch the purchasing power of solo men.
Surveys of single Japanese men conducted in 2010 found that 61% of men in their 20s and 70% of men in their 30s considered themselves to be herbivores. Japan's government views the phenomenon as one possible cause of the nation's declining birth rate.
According to Fukasawa, herbivore men are "not without romantic relationships, but have a non-assertive, indifferent attitude toward desires of flesh". The philosopher Masahiro Morioka defines herbivore men as "kind and gentle men who, without being bound by manliness, do not pursue romantic relationships voraciously and have no aptitude for being hurt or hurting others.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

What 's MGTOW?

[TURK-CONQUEROR]

@ZeussLightningBolt It's like a group of guys who have sworn of relationships with women. Some are angry divorcees or guts that were hurt by women while others guys in their teens or 20s that largely struck out with chicks. I suspect this all changes when they find a girl.

[Vulture051]

"In internet i usually see Western men "
Not going to know much about the politics of Japanese men if you don't speak Japanese.

[Mh1999]

@Vulture051 lol i even know a dutch guy who is mgtow i don't speak Dutch xd

[Vulture051]

but HE obviously speaks English.

[Mh1999]

@Vulture051 well he do

[Vulture051]

So you can communicate with him and even than that only tells you the beliefs of one Dutch guy. You "usually see Western men" because outside of some bilingual people you know that's all you can talk to.

There is a VERY large amount of MGTOWs in Japan.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

I don't know what that means

[Iron_Man]

Look at John Wayne. Men among Men USA born Warrior

[Nachowedgie]

Because we have to deal with feminism

[grega239]

Western feminism.

[Anonymous]

Are you Turkish

[Mh1999]

Lebanese

[Opinion Owner]

I heard they're racist

[Opinion Owner]

They have black man fear and treat white men well

[Mh1999]

Who Lebanese or Turkish

[Mh1999]

They usually prefer their own men

[Opinion Owner]

Lebanese. I'm talking about fear or racism not attraction

[Mh1999]

We don't

[Opinion Owner]

Think Turkish are nice people?

[Mh1999]

I actually have Turkish friend when i was in Europe even had a Turkish boyfriend here is your answer

[Opinion Owner]

One Kurdish girl said they're racist against her people

[Mh1999]

There are turk who are racist Lebanese but not everyone

[blondfrog]

Anon Turkish people hate anybody who are also not Turkish lol. Lebanon has become more westernized.

[Anonymous]

You like them?

[Mh1999]

Lol i never said that i do.

[Opinion Owner]

what do you prefer

[Mh1999]

Lebanese guy