Whats your thoughts on the cultural exchange between Christians and pagans?

[WilliamPamer446]

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

It’s a sign of just how much adaptability is important to survival, alongside just how much power relies on the compliance of the people as much as people need to comply with the power. The reality is Christianity wouldn’t have become the massive culture and religion it is without powerful influences backing it up, and when it achieved that powerful backing it knew it couldn’t have full control via its traditionalism because it would not only alienate those of other faiths but encourage them to fight against it, creating a society of persecution and hatred rather than the intended goal of kindness and love. So they adapted, coming into power and forbidding the worship of other gods, but not taking away the traditions of things like the Easter fertility festival, or Yule, or Saturnalia, just so long as it was done in the name of their god there was nothing wrong with celebrating and most people were willing to accept that for what it was and allow it, it also allowed the social blending of cultures as christians took part in traditions they hadn’t before. It all turns into what it is now, where grandma refuses to celebrate Christmas without a tree because it’s an insult to Jesus lol

[WilliamPamer446]

Your right but pagan wouldn't have survived as well without incorporating and appropriating some Christian values and principles

[WilliamPamer446]

Secular Humanism borrow from Christianity and Christianity borrow spiritual concepts from Pagan society

[WilliamPamer446]

Philosophy are very multicultural

[dazzafromoz]

You are wrong about powerful influences backing Christianity.

It is written in history that at the early onset of Christianity Christians were killed and persecuted by the entire world. Jews, Romans and everyone was trying to kill them.

Misinformed post with no direction👎🏻

[dazzafromoz]

In what Christian country is it forbidden to worship other gods?

[dazzafromoz]

Christianity is not a religion it is a Faith.

The other belief systems are religions.

If you don't understand the difference do some research.

[dazzafromoz]

In Christianity Easter fertility festival doesn't exist. Nor does yule. Not does saturnalia.

All your information in your post is the same as you, dumb. And so is anyone who believes or agrees with you.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

@dazzafromoz Yes, none of these traditions exist because they were adapted into Christianity. I don’t know why you took such offense to this but I’m sure you can see why the puritans were exiled from England that led to America becoming so heavily focused on religious freedom.

[dazzafromoz]

No they were never adapted into Christianity as they aren't a part of Christianity now. You are now just talking poo 💩

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

I think that depends on which branch you look at

[dazzafromoz]

@cupcakethedestroyer there aren't branches. Christianity isn't a tree. There is the catholic/orthodox universal church and all the others are just short cuts with large chunks ripped out of it to make it easier for those believers.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Ah, you think protestantism is a cult, I see

[dazzafromoz]

Do you struggle with English or are just illiterate?

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

It’s more of a commentary on how you don’t get to decide what other people think, even if you think they’re wrong. Maybe if you knew that, you wouldn’t have argued with me for multiple days over an opinion I posted on the internet

[WilliamPamer446]

Cupcake your rude u always wanna antaganize I respond because you responded to my question I study this more than you

[WilliamPamer446]

Don't answer wy question anymore

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

@WilliamPamer446 block me then

[dazzafromoz]

Christianity catholic/orthodox 100% gets to decide what people think on Christianity you imbecile.

I am not arguing. Presenting a fact isn't an argument it's simple a fact. An argument would be if the fact was in question.

[Tamera952]

Huh? Are you for real? Doesn’t Christianity have a terrible track record of persecuting pagans, & attempts at conversion, over the centuries?

[WilliamPamer446]

Yes but ur ignoring the nuance and only focusing on one thing and other religions have persecuting and enslaves people to u have no knowledge of paganism.

[dazzafromoz]

It's the pagans and jews that persecuted the Christians.

[dazzafromoz]

And you can't "attempt to convert" someone who doesn't want to convert. It doesn't work like that.

[dazzafromoz]

No. Wrong. Christianity has never persecuted anyone. Governments in the name of "christianity" have. Nowhere is it written in Christianity to persecuted anyone.

In fact it is taught in the book of John in the Bible to love everyone.

[Tamera952]

@dazzafromoz Well I’m sorry you're so retarded. There have been innumerable wars and violence caused by religion, Christianity included. I’m talking about the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and centuries of persecutions done by the church at various times all over Europe, not to mention South America, Africa, etc. — Where the hell have you been?

[dazzafromoz]

Not a single war was caused by religion and I'm not sorry to inform you of the facts. You are 100% wrong. The crusades wasn't a war for the holy land in which multiple races and faiths took part. And since then it's never happened again. These other wars you mention were not started by the catholic church they were started by others but surely you knew this.

[dazzafromoz]

Who has the church persecuted in Europe, south Africa and America? You need to stop with your lies, or at least contain it to your own delusions.

[Tamera952]

@dazzafromoz Who HASN’T the Church persecuted around the world, is a better question. I mean scholars have written EXTENSIVELY about the HORRORS of the Catholic Church. That organization (of all sects and religions, maybe except Islam more recently) has done more damage to more societies than I can catalogue here.
It’s well-known & established since the church has been around for so long, combined with the staggering amount of wide scale crimes, plus the sheer amount & volume of blood shed in its name.
They are typically resistant to change, especially socially, always dragging their feet as well.

[Tamera952]

@dazzafromoz To mention just a few:
The massacres of heretics in the middle ages (11th and 12th century).
The Crusades.
The conquistadors.
The genocide in Latin-America as an aid to the conquest.
The persecution of scientific promoters and the suppression of science.
The opposition to free inquiry and the execution of its practitioners (Giordano Bruno as an example).
Atlantic slave trade — Slavery in the areas controlled by the Catholic church (famously, a "defender of the Indians" in Mexico, Las Casas, sought to alleviate their suffering by asking black slaves to be brought over from Africa to do the hard work).
The Inquisition, especially the Spanish Inquisition.
The forcible conversion of millions of people from all beliefs, under penalty of death.
The support of monarchy against democracy and the condemnation of the Enlightenment.
The support of a huge array of brutal and murderous dictators, from Mussolini to Pinochet, from Hitler to Mugabe, from Somoza to Dolfuss.
Witch hunting in colonial America
The support of nazi war criminals to flee justice after WWII (the infamous "ratlines").
The subjugation of women.
Institutionalized homophobia.
Wide scale Child sex abuse, The raping of children entrusted to their care, and the ulterior covering up of the offenders.
Supporting anti-semitism by preaching that Jews murdered Christ.
Supporting racism in many forms.
Supporting the death penalty.
Penalizing millions of their own faithful and making them suffer for "crimes" such as divorcing, remarrying, having an abortion, etc.

This is not a new concept, nor part of any delusions I have.

[Tamera952]

@dazzafromoz Not a single war caused by religion? You must be joking… I mean you’re obviously not a stupid person, so you must be prefacing this ‘opinion’ of yours on semantics (multiple races and faiths?) or an alternative definition of ‘war’ or something — because it is well known to historians that throughout the last few millennium, religion in some way, shape, or form - broadly speaking, played a huge roll.

Here’s just Europe:
en.wikipedia.org/.../European_wars_of_religion
Here’s just Christianity and violence:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_violence

[Tamera952]

@dazzafromoz But something tells me your bias won’t allow these answers to suffice, & you’ll come back with some loophole workaround BS answer about the virtues of the church, or how these don’t technically satisfy the criteria.

[dazzafromoz]

When someone asks you a question and you respond with the opposite it shows weakness and your argument is lost.

Try it in a job interview when someone asks what experience you have ask them "what experience don't I have" and then after that question you will be shown the door.

Also putting things in capitals make you look desperate, unorganised and childish. I can't take your response seriously.

[dazzafromoz]

Also, literally none of the things you listed are part of the catholic church it's just a list of crimes or bad events you're trying to smear the catholic church with and it's funny seeing it as there's no truth to it.

Nice try but only someone who doesn't know anything will agree and fall on your poo

[dazzafromoz]

Also using fancy words in your post does nothing to strengthen them in fact it will only confuse readers and make them disagree with you anyway.

Religion plays zero roles in a war and if you believe otherwise I welcome you to provide sources confirming this fact?

Wikipedia is also not a source as anyone can just log on and write things on there true or not and there is no fact check mechanism.

[dazzafromoz]

I'm glad I was easily able to demount you incoherent rant - you really made it way too easy with a combination of assumed lies, a childish approach in literacy, and you let your emotions get in the way of your judgement and putting together a logical factual statement based in truth.

[WilliamPamer446]

@dazzafromoz she does this to everybody buddy don't take it personally

[dazzafromoz]

Yes William but I'm not anybody and she's been put in place with nothing to come back with. Game over.

[Tamera952]

@dazzafromoz A couple words HIGHLIGHTED for emphasis can hardly be construed as DESPERATE, UNORGANIZED, and CHILDISH? …I mean, really?
My argument was NOT forfeited you uptight asshole. I answered your questions, made a ton of statements, & asked a few more questions myself, duh! — which you of course are now ignoring on what, technical grounds? Too hung up trying to tell me how childish I am? Spare me.

[Tamera952]

@dazzafromoz literally none of them? They are certainly associated in a variety of ways with the Catholic Church. I’m not smearing the church, just overstating the obvious. The church’s self-wrought misery & historical transgressions are all of their own doing — they don’t need me to point them out. Everybody (except you) already knows it and knows who’s responsible. You say there’s no truth “to it” — no truth to what exactly? All of what I listed? — “crimes and bad events” umm, YEA, that the Church caused directly or indirectly, or participated in, or instigated, or lied about— I mean, you’re really confusing me now. what is it with you? You being a sunbeam for Jesus has rendered you blind, biased, a revisionist? Why are you incapable of seeing historical truths for what they are. In your opinion has the Catholic Church done ANYTHING wrong in the 1,000 plus years?

[Tamera952]

@dazzafromoz what fancy words? Screw you. This isn’t about my words or the soapbox you’re on. And screw you about Wikipedia…you don’t get to just ‘disqualify Wikipedia (and no don’t be stupid, people can’t just write what they want). …I don’t need to provide you shit. Fact check yourself. The examples I provided are well known and can be sourced from any library or encyclopedia, and you know it. They ALL horrors visited upon humanity by the pearl clutching SICK freaks that are the Catholic Church.
And you look like a dumb asshole making such a statement, “religion play zero roles in a war” …. even casual historians know better.

[Tamera952]

🖕🏼🖕🏼 Shut up William

[Tamera952]

@dazzafromoz 🖕🏼🖕🏼 Yea, I’m in my place alright

[WilliamPamer446]

Tamera don't you dare tell me to shut up this is not your post. You have to respect Christians on my post as we respect you

[dazzafromoz]

William she doesn't know respect that's also a Christian trait

[WilliamPamer446]

@dazzafromoz ya it's a religious trait to have a fake legalist view of morality

[dazzafromoz]

Objective morality is based in religion 100%

[WilliamPamer446]

@dazzafromoz yup but Christianity has been proven to be the best moral system and atheists secular stole from Christianity to make secular humanism.

[dazzafromoz]

Nothing they can steal. They don't have objective morality so their lack of beliefs and morals is in toilet.

[jshm2]

Technically some of Christianity's sects are a pagan cult on steroids, masquerading as a faith.

[WilliamPamer446]

Paganism is the dominant religion in the US

[WilliamPamer446]

Has tension with Islam, but pagans are the elites

[dazzafromoz]

Too true mate. A lot of sects as Christianity are basically "short cuts" of the full intent of Christianity.

[strateguy632]

Som interpret chrismas tree as pagan addition but pagans dont do it!

[WilliamPamer446]

I agree the christian version of something Christians made with pagan spiritual knowledge and cultural influence is often misunderstood.

[dazzafromoz]

Christmas tree is pagan tradition. So is Easter eggs and Easter bunny. 100% certified paganism.

[Alwayreckles93]

What I have noticed and speaking from experiences some not all but most big Mega church's are bringing new age into the church. No one told me I saw it with my own two eye's. Katherine Kirk is one example.

[WilliamPamer446]

That's not pagan officially but some new age elements may borrow from pagan like sun or universe worship

[WilliamPamer446]

people cultures borrow from each other all the time

[Alwayreckles93]

It is a very interesting topic. I make my own homework. Really special magic powers. Makes me wonder and ask questions. Nothing wrong about asking questions.

[WilliamPamer446]

I wonder what r Christian and what are pagan. Pagan is such a broad term we can't judge a Christian denomination conservatively without understanding why they have something foreign or strange to us. There's some spiritual concepts pagans found before Christians die and vice versa. But exchange can be corrupt to

[Alwayreckles93]

Do yourself a favor Rea your Bible.

[dazzafromoz]

Yes and this new age churches are closing faster than they are opening. Christianity was founded 2000 years ago by a Jewish man called Christ and its teachings cannot be modernised.

The teachings are really simple and easy try reading a bible some time instead of just guessing.

[dazzafromoz]

Christianity does not borrow and does not adapt.

[WilliamPamer446]

Your right we shouldn't change Jesus words but false christian teachings work with pagan and new age to much we need pure Christian philosophy

[WilliamPamer446]

Pagan is a broad term for spiritual knowledge sometimes. But b careful with the knowledge

[ProbablyClueless]

It seems like it was basically necessary for Christianity to survive.

[dazzafromoz]

You have no idea.

[ProbablyClueless]

@dazzafromoz What makes you say that?

[dazzafromoz]

@ProbablyClueless well have a look at the persecution of early Christians and you will see that had nothing to do with the survival of the faith.

[ProbablyClueless]

@dazzafromoz I disagree with that analysis. I think that the adoption of Pagan practices allowed Christianity to be seen as a socially acceptable taboo and rebellious religion in the eyes of the Roman public. I don't think Christianity would have reached the critical mass that it did on it's own. I think it needed to evolve to better suit the population it was seeking to integrate with.

[dazzafromoz]

Hahaha except that it didn't evolve? Catholics in church teach and believe that Easter egg and bunny is bs same as Christmas trees. It's the media and corporations who want non Christians participating in Easter and Christmas pushing this stuff down your throat. Our church could not care less for your trees, bunnies and eggs and we haven't changed our teachings in 2000 years.

[ProbablyClueless]

@dazzafromoz Of course it evolved. What are the various councils, schisms, sects, church splits, etc, if not evolutions? The underlying philosophy hasn't changed, but the approach to interpretation and practice of the faith has changed considerably.

[dazzafromoz]

You've no idea what you're on about. A council isn't evolution. A schism isn't evolution. A sect isn't evolution. A split isn't evolution. You just threw all these words and made an incoherent statement. 6000 years Old Testament and 200p years New Testament still the same teaching.

[ProbablyClueless]

@dazzafromoz Okay, so what sort of thing would you consider to be an evolution?

[dazzafromoz]

You're the one going on about evolution and specifying specific things that clearly aren't evolution and I'm saying the teaching is the same and has not evolved?

[ProbablyClueless]

@dazzafromoz Which is why I'm now asking you what you would consider to be an evolution. I think the things I stated very clearly ARE evolution because I think they represent moments of distinct change in the fundamental approach to Christian theology. You don't think that constitutes an evolution, so now I'm wondering where you think that line is.

[dazzafromoz]

Evolution requires change.

Evolution of doctrine requires change of doctrine.

There has been no change in catholic church.

[dazzafromoz]

It depends what you define as Christian? To me anything outside the realm of catholic/orthodox is not Christian.

[dazzafromoz]

So for example protestants taking catholicism and deleting portions of it is not an evolution.

It's bastardisation of something and changing it to something different.

The original hasn't evolved or changed as such. It is still alive and intact.

[dazzafromoz]

The doctrine of the original and everlasting catholic/orthodox church remains and will remain unchanged.

There is no scope in canon law allowing for change or evolution of doctrine.

Catholic/orthodox is the hardest to follow and is famous for being dogmatic. You will find other sects of Christianity are basic short cuts of this.

[ProbablyClueless]

@dazzafromoz I'm orthodox, myself. Greek Orthodox. I've never met someone who considers "Christian" to only include Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Do you think it's possible that some changes to doctrine could have happened in the very early church?

[dazzafromoz]

Well there you go. It all depends on definition now.

And I'm about to rock your world with my next comments get ready...

[dazzafromoz]

In John 6:53–57, Jesus says, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” Upon hearing these words, many of Jesus’ followers said, “This is a hard teaching” (verse 60), and many of them actually stopped following Him that day (verse 66).

[dazzafromoz]

True catholic/orthodox believe we are eating the flesh and blood of Jesus in the sacrament of Eucharist.

The rest tell themselves this is just symbolism bla bla bla. Therefore there is only one true Christianity and rest is false prophets.

But as orthodox maybe you knew this already.

[dazzafromoz]

The very early church as you know catholic and orthodox had disagreements over relatively small differences. The catholic church instead of dealing with the situation went apeshit and excommunicated the orthodox and I believe the orthodox did the same hence the schism. Seems like today they're working on repairing that.

Umm did the early church change its doctrine? No. Were some things unclear in translation and interpretation? Possibly.

Did some churches in some regions get some aspects wrong such as gay people being evil etc? Sure. But it's all about progress and getting it right as a group not as individuals.

[Tamera952]

@dazzafromoz ::Eyeroll:: oh boy, here we go ….

[dazzafromoz]

@Tamera952 what's up did you figure out if your vagina color is OK or ugly?

[Tamera952]

@dazzafromoz Yes, I did, thank you. So kind of you to check on that.

[dazzafromoz]

Of course caring is a Christian trait

[SweetJoyGirl]

It will never be a thing.