Can you truly call it “free will” if the alternative to loving God is hell? Isn’t that more like a threat than a choice?

[Breanna83727]

Free will like read real, honest free will means being able to make a decision without pressure, manipulation, or fear forcing your hand. If someone chooses something because they’re scared of the consequences of saying no, that’s not love it’s that’s survival.

So when Christianity says, “God gave you free will,” but then adds, “If you don’t choose Him, you go to hell,” it’s like…
Was that really a choice? Or just a terrifying ultimatum?

[PavlovsCogk]

The act of evil and hell should be synonymous.

I will format this opinion in a way that hopefully is easy to follow, otherwise i wasted half an hour trying to come up with matching words for my thoughts.

Take Carl Jung's famous quote "no tree can grow to heaven unless its roots reach hell". Which is extremely metaphorical and probably entirely useless unless you already understand the meaning before reading that quote.

Ignore the religious dogmas but please do keep asking these important questions.

My immediate thought upon reading your question was: if there was no "pressure", would there even be a choice?

No, 100% of us would stay dormant in the comfort. But this topic is a very mental-masturbatory way of thinking and the question assumes that it is possible to know (good and evil) without the process of learning. There would be no appreciation for good without remembering evil.

The purpose of living a moral life is to turn this place into "heaven" and after many incarnations eventually evolve your soul into something angel-like.

Question that? Try doing authentic research. Why would reincarnation exist? And it is elementary that a human soul is a human soul and reincarnates only as human (and evolves slowly) https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/wp-content/uploads/sites/360/2015/11/REI35.pdf

STEVENSON STARTED AS A HARD CORE SKEPTIC

Hell, you can probably see most depictions of devils as sexual beings, aside from violence. Doesn't this ring a bell? Where is sexuality a thing? Only on earth. (Jesus specificslly stated no sex for spirits, only love).

Heaven and hell are terms most fitting what happens on earth. Not what happens in the afterlife (before rebirth). Which i have as much an issue with the word "afterlife" as with heaven and hell, due to popular misconceptions.

Purely out of logical thought, you cannot call anything evil, if, as you said, evil contributes to the possibility of free will.

It is even essential to dip into in order to grow. Why else would it be an option otherwise, what would be the end goal? Why would we all descend, and have to be redeemed by learning to overflow with love and radiate it to all (ability christ gave us, the spirit that possessed a man for 3 years, 2000 years ago).

Rethink it all. Ask not "why hell", but "what exactly IS hell".

Years ago, I at first was told misinterpreted dogmatic explanations of the esoteric cores of religions. For example, with Lucifer tempting Eve. It made no sense ever either way, and only now i think i found something that could hardly be replaced by anything more sensible.

The dogmatics told me that "these evil gnostics believe lucifer to be the good guy, who gave us wisdom, while we were mindless beasts in eden, that's their perverted misinterpretation of the bible."

Although it is true that there are luciferians and "gnostics" who literally believe in that, and follow outdated spiritual (loveless) practices - these luciferians are STILL following an exoteric bullshified materialistic belief that is not the full meaning of the story.

If they saw the bigger picture, even purely logically thought about it, they'd see: if god created something good but imperfect, then there will be something even better created. And by that i mean Luciferian views perpetuate suffering because they are devoid of selfless love.

The esotric christain interpretation is very much in line with the mainstream science that so far has been absolutely confirmed as undisputable fact, even some aspects of ape evolution, and quantum physics.

Before the physical world, we existed in the higher realms as aura. The consciousness was similar to that during dreams, but we all shared one dream.

Later, once on earth in a still low density form (but physical), still very long before atlantis even, humans were androgynous - science permits this to be the case long before our common ancestors with apes were already sexed, far more than a dozen million years ago.

Because of a somewhat blended physical reality with the etheric, humans were more liquid, that's when "supernatural powers" were common. But in fact the reality was a mix between physical world and the type of world you see in your dreams.

The androgynous man is also another riddle i struggled with, because Jews for example are also well known to believe that Adam was created androgynous.

"God created man and woman in his image" - A CHAPTER BEFORE eve was formed.

At this stage humans were very much like animals - still had no ego, all controlled by one soul, regarldess of gender.

Perfectly matches the creation story part about mindless beasts in eden. But temptation was part of God's plan then, logically. Story is symbolic.

Then came lucifer the light bearer. Because of him, man is now able to know good and evil. An ego was formed.

What is the biggest mistake of lucifer? Pride. Would it be possible to be proud of ANYTHING, if you didn't think that it was good, and if you had no knowledge of evil to compare it to?

You see? The "decline" into selfishness initiated by lucifer is essential to KNOW good and evil. To have an ego. And, to willingly radiate abundance of love. Animals with no ego (instead have a group-soul) cannot radiate love, but they also cannot be judgmental or egotistic.

So, some people really do worship the spirit known as lucifer. Their goal in existence is selfishness and pride.

But Lucifer is still clearly not the devil, he was only essential in order for the "devil" to have things to work with. Lucifer ('s gift) now still is even needed to an extent, in order to rise above "devil's" influence.

The devil is the materialist who wants to sever the connection between material and spiritual. There is a real major spirit (and many minor similar ones) that strive to kill ("fragment the soul" as shamans call it) everything and automate matter as physically as possible with pure selfishness and nothing divine.

Loving your neighbor as yourself prevents this "devil" from creating hell on earth. The choice is binary.

[jshm2]

Of course it is.

In the same way you can call it "freedom" in the USA, despite being able to be jailed on a whim when exercising that freedom the wrong way. You are always capable of breaking some law or another, not every decision can be mitigated.

When you complete high school you'll learn about something called "intent". Pay attention in that class, and you'll learn much, such as why some things may look egregious, but are not always, and the opposite.

[AndrésC64]

Nope. Absolutely horrible analogy. Your God created everything, including me. He created me exactly as he wanted to. He has a plan. I do everything as he has planned. I cannot possibly do anything other than what God has planned. He could have created me differently, but he chose this way. That makes everything that I do his fault because he knew I was going to do it and could have stopped it before he even created me. He created me to do the things I do.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

This is one of my biggest issues with christianity and certainly a cult-like trait of the organized religion as we know it.


We can put this into a historical context and acknowledge that before society as we know it now religion was the only way to have laws and the threat of eternal punishment was the threat of punishment beyond death, but even still I can agree with the sentiment that if God truly is as loving as christians claim, he wouldn’t send a perfectly good soul to Hell just because they chose to be an atheist.

[alice55]

The only things gid can not forgive is to deny his existence, you're not forced to love him neither are you forced to live without sin as the only ways to get to hell is to deny his existence if you do whatever you want all your life and then at the end recognize that god exist and don't deny his existence then you'll go to purgatoire (to get rid of all the sin you committed) and then go to heaven.

That's for Catholic religion it's a very forgiving religion and nobody actually go to hell except Satan.

[TrueConfection]

Do you live with your parents? If so, it’s up to you to follow their rules or move out. If you don’t live with them, I’m sure that was a choice (unless they are dead or in prison).

Hell is separation from God. It’s your choice. Do you want to spend eternity in His grace or do you want to be apart from God? He wants you and He wants you to want Him.

[Jay-_-]

It's not a threat at all, God gave you free will to choose where you will go, hell is without God and without people who follow God that is your choice heaven was made for his children and followers, why should you go to heaven if you reject God heaven is where God is and will be.

[Jay-_-]

And whoever told you "you don't choose him you go to hell" is wrong that's not how it works it's not complicated but it's not that simple either God only wants the best for you, there's not one thing that God asks of you that is bad and that's a fact.

[Jay-_-]

You can quite literally do whatever you want, I remember debating someone that talked about "predestination" but that's ignorance, because you do have free will. Can you or can you not find someone on a cliff and toss him/her off, yes you can, that's free will, does it mean you should do it, no you shouldn't. God does want you to always find your way to him or back to him but off of your own choice, he gives people plenty of signs but people deny him, all because they are comfortable in their twisted way of living, over intoxication, negativity, bad language, lust, greed, ego, etc. Instead people claim God isn't real because they rather be in denial than except God loves you and wants you to be pure.

[TrueConfection]

That predestination and limited atonement theology is such garbage.

[dreamstar72]

Free will here on this earth is a gift from God to choose from right or wrong. Will?, God take this gift away from us on the new earth/heaven. Think about it free will is what got this world so evil. Remember no one is free from sin. Meaning the new world will became like the old world in time.

[Anonymous]

Yes. Because you were given the choice. Hence, free will.

The problem with your question is you're putting yourself on the same level as God as though you make the rule. YOU DON'T! You never will. That doesn't mean you do not have free will. You can still reject God.

I'll tell you what. Create a universe (a real one) bring life into being then you might begin to have a case.

[Breanna83727]

Girl I asked a question not saying I’m on the same level as “god”

[RavVid]

This is the good thing about Buddhism. It doesn't resort to threats.

[strateguy632]

It is like a threat but as we see the threat is not forcing atheists... nor are obedient people "only obedient due to threat" in contrast to children.

So free- will is real.

[strateguy632]

A parallel is, "society can't punish criminals because it is a threat, people only don't murder due to threat of jail" so your idea is just as false.

[Truthatanycost]

Having the free will to chose what we do, doesn't mean we can decide how the other party acts to what we chose.

[NoDecision]

If you could go to Heaven for eternity, why wouldn't you pick that?

[Jay-_-]

Because people are twisted and prefer to live on what FEELS right instead of WHAT IS RIGHT.

[AndrésC64]

Exactly. It's like me holding a gun to your head and giving you the choice of handing over your watch wallet and car keys or getting shot in the head. It's your choice!

[leahzrc]

Unfortunately, it is better to fear God than to fear humanity.

[TrueConfection]

Why is that unfortunate? God offers mercy and grace.

[Bklynbadboy12]

Yes it's definitely free will cause he not making you do anything he just gave you your options you decide what you want

[Gayuglycowardv3]

Hell is simply rejecting Gods love. God is eternal and so is his punishment

[jahaims]

Free will is choosing how to act.

[BarryLiverstone]

Yes it’s feee will