Dose anyone see how religion caters to society and the danger of it?

[new-person]

Society in the last 150 years has changed into a do as you want with no gilt or shame. A term called grace of no matter what you do started to be looked at as the new way.

Even with the 3 main religions scriptures saying that is not the case, in fact in the Christian and Jewish faith the two scriptures say the exact opposite. That you are not free to do as you want without being punished by the higher power of the religion. But society has made a new tradition and passed down it as truth.

But why dose it say that in the scriptures of the two... to treat all with respect and acceptance, do not judge (only to judge on what the person shows and tells you themself), treat everyones problems as your own? Because we as humans are dependent on being part of society and the best way to maintain a positive healthy society is for all to accept and help each other.

But now society has become so selfish and judgmental that religion has became a business catering to it. It is also a fact that being real nice is now looked as not normal. What society wants is the freedom to do as one wishes without any negative effects. Now Christian's if you are thinking this is not true. It is in the new testament of your Bible from the first followers (no follower sins, only a child of the devil sins) and the first teacher who is called the son of God said (only the ones who do what the father wants = (what he said to do, how to live like, in the old testament) will go in heaven. This means if you judge someone buy society label you are going against your own god. With religion changing into what society wants comes danger. Because someone with the believe in there heart, mind and soul, that no matter what they do they will have the grace of their god. Has no limit to the devastation they can cause other people. So if their mind breaks from not being accepted and rejected by society because society dose not follow what is written. You end up with what happened in Tumbler Ridge BC

Yes

No

Unsure

[Kaneki05]

I don't really see what Tumbler Ridge BC had to do with it, there was way less acceptance in the past and more violence.
Religion it has to cater to society and always has.
As you say they do not follow rules as written but nether did countless examples like the Israelites many times did they fail to follow their rules.
And rules in the bible retconned it self many times, with different rules and vagueness hence multiple sects and religion based on the same book to how the bible even came to be, and Christianity being a product of following new made up text that fits them.

Average people are only following what suits them, only a few zealots are following it despite it not holding back other wishes. And that's how it's always been, though in past there was more dogma so you'd be in more threat to not follow more restrictions even if you disagreed.
For most part though this was still thriving because it benefited what suited the elites in control, which whether peasants liked it or not that control kept them alive.

So nothing new here, and religion isn't going to be solve, never was.

[new-person]

Well with religion catering to society and teaching do what you want and you still have the grace of the higher power no matter what you do. This gives one a green light with no fear of punishment of the higher power or fear of going to hell. That is how Tumbler Ridge fits into this. As if the religion did teach what is written before they did it they will think about what will happen if they did and think twice because it is not a mental illness but a mental state from there environment. Not saying it will have fully prevented it, but it will of put the likelihood of them doing it way down because they was only in a state of mind (I can not take it any more) with no fear of consequences from the higher power only societys consequences witch is why they killed themself in the end, to end the pain and suffering but not before taking revenge on society first without any fear of pushment from the higher power thinking I believe so I will have his grace.

[Kaneki05]

Believing in a higher power is just another excuse, cause ya go by Valhalla rules the choice longs if you die in battle or for what you believe everything you did will send you to the glory.

The fear of hell does not work, and all past proves this. The crusades if you want a more bible led conquest example.
Those who will commit same bloodshed without a care because in their head they aren't going to hell anyway. Therefore makes no difference, actually maybe worse.
As those believe they're in the right and will achieve something great. At least an atheist knows that won't happen.

Such theory humans would fear hell would only be possible if hell was proven and they could see the consequence. But it's not and can't be. Therefore 80% will never actually think about it, and the other 10% believe everyone else is going to hell for not doing such extreme actions, then the other 10% are the rare few who do try to live as if hell could exist.
Honestly 10% maybe too high.

[new-person]

You do have a good point so maybe it would for the 10% (or less) but not the 90% (or more) because of the question is it actually real.

Good point so it really don't matter that much of the religion aspect in Tumbler Ridge of you look at it with statistics in mind. Because the odds of a person being one of the 10% or less. And we are not talking about in the town we are talking about of 10% or less of Christianity as a whole. And the odds of someone being part of the 10% or less in a small town is real small like 0.01% or something.

Good point

[Kaneki05]

Exactly so glad you understood, just thought about another thing you also have the albeit rare but those who think hell maybe a good thing, if they worship the devil it will gain them something.
Though a more common thing that's before that is just simply rebellion, rejection this will lead to similar result as they start to see whatever the opposite is as the ideal.

It's a fine line to pushing an ideal that makes them push back.

The only thing that mattered in Tumbler ridge was the mother in my opinion, often in such cases you'll find a lot of fault in the parent/s that's neatly covered up or overlooked (Even more so in this case since she became a victim too). It's hard to know if I am right because of that. It's less objective more a feeling. Unlike many other cases like Brenda Ann spencer, blatant obvious father's fault yet nobody talks about him and his disgusting involvement.
But she reminds me of mine and I can say that it explains a lot.
And I don't get why her son became trans so young that to me seems like she forced it somehow, rather than it was a natural thing. All speculative tho, but killing her shows something I think.
Either way giving guns to a kid, who's going to go through a lot of problems due to being trans isn't a bright idea nvm if there were more issues there.

I'd say more often than not it's a parent who caused this, and we don't do nothing to hold them accountable as we should. And we can't stop every terrible parent from having kids... the action needed would be seen as too extreme even if right.

[new-person]

I agree but also disagree, the mother is yes at fault for her abuse to the child, that he turned trans so young. But like I said abuse is so normal now that people rather hide the truth then to believe in it. This is because people want the freedom to treat others the way they want even their own kids. But like you said to stop it l, you will have to set up a system that 98% of society will think it is to harsh and invasion of rights and privacy.

But the town's society is not free of guilt as if only one person accepted him and gave him a sense of belonging and acceptance his mind will not of cracked and snapped. So all the people morn now for their loss but to see who's at fault they all will n a way promoted him to do it. Taking part of isolating someone from all of society without even getting to know them. Because if anyone did, they probably will of found out the emotional abuse be was going through and saved all the lives that was lost.

But society dose not want to know it's own fault. Society wants freedom to treat others how it wishes without being looked at as doing wrong, this includes abuse no one wants to know the real truth. I did a paper on abuse and got a lot of compliments from Dr. s on how well I did it, with not missing anything. But when I give it to people most get extremely mad or reject it as wrong. Why because so much that is looked at as normal is in fact abuse.

He did not have a mental illness only a mental state from a inhuman environment all members of society took part of. Yes 70% is the mother's fault, but the other 30% is the town's society fault

[Kaneki05]

Mental illness easily stem from abuse could have one. Not sure if I really agree with the wider brush of society in a way yes, but I think it leans into more ambiguity into more unreasonable excuses. If a person can't handle different opinions or position in society that's a them problem.
Now don't get me wrong, I think society can improve to try make positions better and I want that very much so. But we can't have people who pop off due to more just how a society works, which will mean some will be more outcasts due to their nature.
Now if we prove there was a kid bullied heavily then we can blame said bullies of course, but we can't have everyone forced to hold hands and be nice.
We as humans don't all need to get along and be accepted by everyone. And under the reasoning we do you'll find how much excuses that creates just to do bad things because of one thing or another that didn't feel that way to them.
A stable person can handle the truth that we don't need acceptance from everyone around us, and when I went to school I never expected kids there to accept me. And I wouldn't even call myself stable back then.

If someone can't cope with society that's as unkind as it sounds is a them problem. In life you learn to cope with things. There is unreasonable suffering caused by others but the rest is simply experiencing how it is to live.

[new-person]

But we are not talking about a few or even a large number with having one or two treat them as a person and show acceptance. We are talking about all of society. I have experience helping people who have been isolated and outcast by society. And it is not that they can not take some people or the mojor potion of people negative treatment. If that was the case you are right and that is a self issue.

We are talking about the full population of the town's society. Why do you put 2 or more animals in a cage in a zoo? It is required to that be healthy and stable we need a connection and feeling of acceptance. When all people in society refuses to give that to you. It makes a inhuman environment that after so long the mind can not take it any more then slowly starts to crack and then snap leading to them killing them self, or taking revenge then killing them self. In a study in psychology of acceptance and rejection of society, they seen out of the 15 school shootings 13 was outcasts and isolated by all of there society.

The fact remains that all it will have took is one person to give a sense of belonging and acceptance to him to prevent the whole thing from happening. One person! But the town's society refused to do that and supported inhuman treatment of him. That ended with him suffering unable to take it anymore then without the fear of pushment from the higher power he took revenge from the inhuman treatment of everyone in that society then killed himself. Was it a mental illness, no that is why he had access to guns. But the news will say it is a mental illness because society dose not what to hear the truth, that it's at falt. society is extremely narcissistic to the people it rejects, looking at it self as perfect and not at fault (like you are doing) so as the town thinks about the victims, they need to look at themself and say "we supported the behavior/treatment of him that caused this".

[Kaneki05]

Not really they had access to guns thanks to their parents not because they were assessed fit, but even more so we know those assessments aren't full proof so how can one be so assured there was no mental illness?

I think you are being naive if you think just one person making a connection would've stopped this and disagree fully. The girl who shot up a school last year or was it the year before she had a boyfriend yet still did so. Or how about infamous columbine shooting partners in crime? Outcasts have connections and belonging most of the time, even if you don't view as ideal it is so and to them it's something. I would know.
And as someone who's been in a position of unstable mind I can tell you the reasons aren't like that, it's more you want a way to escape. One person accepting you is not enough to escape...
We often have one person maybe even a few that accept us despite being outcasts.
Do you really think this person had no one?

And maybe in this one rare they did, but if you look at those other outcast cases you'll find they had at least someone, whether close or that one kid who does show you kindness when others don't. You'll find if a shooting is about to happen it will happen anyway. Because that is not the core of the issue.

[new-person]

Kindness is not enough. A sense of kindness when a person is outcast is not enough to stabilize the mind from the isolation. So yes they might have had someone and that someone shown and gave kindness but that is not enough. The mind needs a feeling of acceptance and a sense of belonging. Without that and just kindness the mind still cracks and breaks from the inhuman treatment and can not take it anymore.

Having someone to talk to is positive but still not enough. I worked with people and helped. them and what is required to give a sense of belonging and acceptance sometimes can be demanding that most will say I can't because I do not have time.

Do you really think just having someone to talk to will give a sense of belonging and acceptance? No

So most cases the person will have someone to talk to, but still have no feeling of acceptance and and feeling of belonging, only a sense of kindness. In most cases the person starts negative behavior to other members of the society and then society rejects them even more, and things just go down hill, sometimes fast, sometimes slow, depends on the mind. But after they reach the point of no return it's over. All starting from societys labels and isolation and rejection, that supported the whole thing.

We as humans all make mistakes, but it is always good to reflect on what wrong we have done that caused the negative as a willingness to grow and prevent it from happening again. If not excuses will be made and no change will take place, and it will continue to happen, just like you are saying.

Having someone to show kindness is not enough when a connection is needed do to isolating, rejecting and outcasting someone.

If one person accepted him and spent time with him and did things with him, giving him a sense of connection to develop the feeling of belonging before he crossed the point of no return. It will have been 100% preventable.

[Kaneki05]

Once ya talk in 100% I already know you are wrong. There is not a way to guarantee that. And you seem to think all cases match and are alike, not understanding there is nuance to several reasons in-between to other things that you may not perceive.
Way to idealistic in thinking.

You speak as an outsider too, you may help people but one day you're going to find one you can't help which I am surprised you already haven't. And the reason is you are on one side of the fence but not the other. I was on the other.
And perhaps you've been on both? But the optimistic side makes me think otherwise and does not make sense to why you are missing an important aspect like this.

[new-person]

If you understand a time line and how changing one thing can change the course of time and end with a fully different future. You can see going back far enough and changing the rejection to one person accepting them giving a sense of belonging and connection will change everything. You can get 100% prevention when it is something in human control. Like a child born with epilepsy from the mother falling down stairs well still pregnant. If she did not go down the stairs and took an elevator will the child still be born with epilepsy? 100% No it will not have it at all. Same thing, if in his first attempt to be accepted (the sex change) one or two people accepted him and gave him a sense of belonging and connection. That will have changed everything. 1. They will have found out about the emotional abuse he was going through
2. He will have developed a sense of belonging in the community even if only with one or two people. Making 100% different future.

And yes as a professional you can not help everyone that comes to you. Just like a hospital has people who die in the hospital from their wounds.

You say you was on the other side of the fence. But you talk like you never seen it. To understand the other side of the he fence you do not need to have been there only to understand and know the affects of trauma, isolation, abuse, torcher and mell/ill-treatment has on the mind.

I put torcher because going through life seeing others have friends and connection with others, well left without any and just wanting and needed it. Is the same as locking someone in a cage putting something they need just out of reach so they see it but can not have it and teasing them with it.

But you will never understand that because you do not understand the effects of the other side of the fence.

[Kaneki05]

It's not the same thing at all but the fact you think it is shows some real ignorance here. It's more issues than just belonging that leads to these acts.
Oh well you'll never understand since you've clearly never had such thoughts. Because I can tell you for a fact that wouldn't of worked for me so already not a 100% rate just by myself.
Tbh it probably would've made it worse since I hate people and a lot of people are dumb, and I stumble into people who think like you who make me feel worse, but ya know I imagine you never even considered that.
There are people who commit shootings and etc much later on life, guys who literally have a family or something and perceived as a nice family man.
You can't 100% stop such thoughts and do not know of all the reasons why someone may commit such an act, and pretending to know is annoying saying it can be is really annoying.

[new-person]

We are not talking about all school shootings here we are talking about the transgender. Yes there is a small amount of school shootings that is caused by other things related to conditions but that is only 14.333...% and if we was talking about all school shootings I would include that, but we are only talking about one. It sounds like you have a condition that you need help with. But here is one thing I see in your texts. You claim to have been on the other side of the fence. But then stand up and say it is ok for others to isolate and cast judgment on the expense of a person's feelings and health.

To show you what you sound like. Picture us in the 1950s and you are African American, and in a support group for African Americans who are abused by society you say it is not the racists people fault they are not doing anything wrong it is us. (That is exactly what your saying) And no one that been on the other side of the fence will say what you say.

Now if you say this because you have a condition that's fine but we are not having a general conversation, we are talking about Timber ridge. We are talking bout the transgender, and in this one case it could have been fully prevented.

Now what could have happened but there is no way to be sure as I do not have enough info on it. Is: the boy was rejected by his mom, and had trouble fitting in at school. His mom encouraged him to get a sex change, making it sound like she will accept him more sense she wanted a girl instead of a boy. He did, but she still did not accept him, and then society reaction was extremely negative and he suffered for a while with no escape from it, then his mind started to crack and snap, and could not take it the rejection and isolation anymore.

[Kaneki05]

So you are speaking of just this case then claiming a solution to prevent something you never experienced nor knew the mindset of the shooter.
You can make a theory that could've solved it at 100% which is absurd with how assured that number is, but you can make it. And I can disagree with such theory, which I am.
Neither would know the actual answer. But my theory is more reasonable as I'd never use a 100% certainty, and know there is more reasoning and nuance to why people may do things.

It's not abuse for society to not cater around you, and would enforce dictatorship that people have to like each other when they don't have to. You are allowed to judge anybody for any reason. Thought policing judgement is wild and makes no sense.
The only real crime is abusing someone. Random example I could think someone's weird at school and not want to talk to them, therefore I am okay to do that. And for whatever other reason I don't want to.
Now if I decide to beat them up for it or relentless bully them that's the problem.

You want to judge someone on race go ahead, it's fine. And then equally I would judge a racist for being one and how sad that is, which again is fine.
That's how life works, we aren't all meant to get along judgement free.

And it should be obvious but restriction through law isn't a thing I am going into here because that's a bigger problem that's not relevant to this.
This person was allowed to be trans and sounds like they were from very young which could actually lead into perhaps there should've been a restriction on that. It wasn't as if they were facing different laws due to it. But there is a mix of what laws could be okay and aren't so it's a whole other mess to go into that I won't.

[new-person]

It would not work for you because you probably have a mental health issue and condition.

In reality all I'm saying is that people want the freedom to do and treat others how they wish. But with that freedom comes responsibly and with that comes accountability. One has to be mindful of others feelings. This I think upsets you do to your consideration.

The basic understanding that what ever energy you give or put off, will come right back or build up and then explode sometimes violently sometime not.

One thing for sure I think you need help and should go to therapy and counseling as if people piss you off, and the idea of being mindful of others feelings and accountable for your negative actions on others makes you mad, you should seek help..

You probably only see your own world/life/thoughts you have no consideration for others and what they could feel. There for you can not see and understand others and how others feel. With this you are unable to see and understand what went on with the information and evidence given/available.

Yes 100% is a drastic number, but with all the info and evidence there is no sign of anything different.

There is no point in continuing this conversation because of your condition.

[Kaneki05]

Ah yes what a cop out blame it on a condition and think your better. And give me advice when I didn't ask for any, pretending to also know my life.
Your point is illogical, holds no weight and just ignores several reasons why someone may commit such an act.
And in fact is condescending. Maybe go look in a mirror for once.

[NathanDavis]

let's all pretend like the religions did not control most of the world and pretty much raped all around the continents to gain even more control and power as they pleased and paid for...

let's just pretend that those 1500 year of so didn't happen and it just "society today" the ones who are a danger... okay, lol

[new-person]

Religion is made to please society and attract people, to influence and control. Look at the 3 main religions how much truth and how much tradition without written words in the religions book to back up the tradition. The tradition comes from changing the religion other to suite society and to train people or the religion changing society into a more neutral less strict way, to eventually unite the 3 or more religions together at some point.

Look at Easter and Christmas a tradition that is past down with no written words to back it up. But both have roots in other earlier religions so the tradition was made to attract people from the other religions into it.

The history of religion is quite interesting, but people that follow it will never look in the history because they are fully under control.

Even the Jewish faith has so much tradition even with its book saying "do not follow man made tradition only the written word". One being can not say the true name of the higher power. But in the Jewish defense the traditions was made to prevent people from going against the higher power. But when dose that get out of control and uses to control?

Religion catering to society to look attractive and with pleasing society it then brain washes to control. With little truth in it and mostly tradition that it says is true.

Look at the Catholic Church so much power and control they can do evil and abusive things and still be looked at as good and keep all followers. I know if the church I went to abused any one kids or adults I will laugh at them when they say they work for the higher power (god) lol yea ok what the f**k ever, more like you work for your own lust and desires that is rooted in power, control and sexual lust not anything more.

[MontBlanc]

Some people see danger when religion is shaped to control or silence others.

Any belief system becomes risky when it’s used for power instead of integrity.

The issue usually isn’t faith ,
it’s how people use it.

[new-person]

You are on to it. But I do not think you know how deep the rabbit hole go's and who is all at the end/leading it.

[MontBlanc]

I’m aware there are layers to power structures.

I just prefer focusing on what’s observable and accountable, not speculation.

Depth is important but so is staying grounded in what we can actually verify.

[new-person]

Then look no further than the book the religion follows and then what's being told. In Christion churches you will see a big difference

Book - follow rules or be punished

Told now - free for punishment just as long as you believe (fully believing means pay me your 10%)

[Dargil]

Judaism and Christianity make society better. They inflict no danger. Whether or not what they believe is true or not, their conduct is normal is civilized. Simple and true. No word salad, like yours, is necessary. Judaism and Christianity need no debate or defense. G0d is our defense. If you don't like my opinion, you are entitled to yours.

[strateguy632]

Superb presentation except the bit about 'no danger'. Actually Jews and americans, (in contrast to civilized people) cut part off baby boy. A physical loss that civilized people in Europe and Canada and south africa and Australia know is not "healthier". In fact doctors know health, so, many medical associations warned they don't recommend routine circumcision. So this showed circumcision is not "healthier or cleaner or benefit.' Just risky and loss so that bit of jew and christians "motivated a risky cut' is danger but see 1 cor. 7 for authentic christian practice.

[Dargil]

@strateguy632 so you're going to obsess on circumcision? I'm still standing.

[strateguy632]

That is nonsense. Religion is whatever its holy book says.

[new-person]

Then why are they teaching in churches what is not in the book? Christmas, where is it in the book, no place = tradition. Easter, where is it in the book, no place = more tradition. You can sign and still go to haven, just as long as you believe, where is that in the book? In fact the one they say they follow said the complete opposite.

Telling people do not want to feel guilty for doing bad things, so that is why it changed, it is just another business now.

You can deny it all you want