Why I recently became pro-life!

[Ámayas_20]

I've been pro-choice my whole life but I think this change has been coming for a while now. My views on abortion started becoming darker I went from seeing as a choice to a necessary evil in society, from being for abortion till the third trimester eventually down to 8 weeks. I've had an abortion ,I've campaigned for abortion rights, and now I deeply regret those decisions. After looking into this further I can no longer justify my previous stance and am deeply ashamed of my past.

Her body, her choice!

This was one I believed strongly after all pregnancy and birth do a lot to a woman's body and has some dangerous possibilities. The more I thought about this the more I realised how mislead it is, you have the right to get a tattoo but you can't force anyone else to get one. You can do whatever you like to your own body but not someone else's you have no right to take your fist and punch someone with it as that concerns their body too, when a woman has an abortion it is not only her body she is making a decision for but another human being a choice that infringes on the child's right to life, the most basic and fundamental human right.

Making abortion illegal won't stop abortion just safe abortion.

Safe for who? Certainly not the human being who is killed as a result, as a society we allow a foetus to be murdered because it might happen anyway, that is a scary thought. Well should we legalise sex slavery so we can make the slaves safer, we haven't stopped sex slavery so by this logic it's the only right thing to do.

What about rape victims?

As a rape victim myself I have great sympathy for rape victims, it's a terrible tragedy when rape results in pregnancy that's how my daughter was conceived, so maybe I'm slightly biased on this.It is not her fault that her father was a terrible man so why should she have had to die for his actions? You can give the child up for adoption once it is born if you don't feel you could raise the child but you're want to have a easier time recovering from this experience should not be more important than the child's right to life. Not to mention the majority of rape victims do not choose abortion (I think it's around 15-20% who do) and that there is no way to tell which women have actually been raped and which are using it as an excuse to have an abortion.

The foetus is not a human yet/Anything relating to development.

Well a foetus IS a human, nothing in the definition of human refers to development because we don't define how human someone is based on how far they have developed as we never stop developing into the next stage of life. Like toddler or adolescent, the terms embryo and foetus do not refer to nonhumans, but to humans at particular stages of development.

The 'A fertility clinic is burning down you can save a child or 1,000 embryos '

This isn't comparable, we aren't talking about active murder here like with abortion but an awful situation where everyone will have a different response some will save the child, some will freeze, some will save themselves etc. It's just simply not the same circumstance, the death of either the child or the embryos is tragic but I'd completely understand why in such a situation why most people, myself included, would have a primal instinct to save the screaming child.

Don't like abortion don't get one!

Don't like rape? Don't rape. Don't like theft? Don't steal. Don't like assault? Don't assault. Don't like murder? Don't murder. All this effectively says is that the breach of human rights is not an issue we need to be concerned over, someone being killed is not something we should as a society we should try and prevent.

I could give more but these are the most common arguments I here thrown around and used to throw around myself.

[The_Underground_Man]

I've always pro-life for the same exact reasons outlined here. The greatest one for me is that, biologically speaking, an unborn baby is fully human. Life begins at conception, and any sort of distinction over its stage of development seems about as arbitrary as trying to draw a line between toddlers and teenagers. Both are fully human, and both are fully alive. Furthermore I believe that parents have an obligation to their offspring. Many people claim that because an unborn baby is inside of a woman's body, that it is her choice. However, this does not add up for two reasons. First, abortion does merely remove the unborn baby. It destroys it. Second, parents have an obligation to protect their offspring. It is not the same as removing a parasite or stranger. I've found in the end, however, in regards to other subjects, that I've become more liberalized. Not necessarily as a shift in ideology, but as a disdain for authoritarianism. It used to bother me, for example, that society is so decadent, degenerate, and materialistic. Now, I don't really care. No sort of government system or policy can remedy it. Only a spiritual reawakening.

[Cokebottle]

oh look you gave mho to another pro life cuck.

go figure

[laurieluvsit]

Totally love your mytake Ms Amayas!

Murdering a child is never a "choice", it is a "death sentence", period. Talk about the ultimate in "Child Abuse"!

Margaret Sanger's founding of "Planned Parenthood" was exclusively to eradicate black children, who she thought were over populating the earth. That is not a conjecture... it is a fact!

The main purpose of abortion, from a spiritual context, is to devalue human life. To make it more worthless in the minds of society, thus we see more violence, more murder, more suicide and more selling of baby body parts for profit then ever, the last of which Planned Parenthood specializes in! Can anyone spell 'SICK' for me please?

You are now on the right side of this Ms Amayas... NEVER GIVE UP! ... you are helping to save the lives of babies who may never know who you are to thank you, but they would if they could... I PROMISE!!

[laurieluvsit]

Thank you for the MHG Ms Amayas :)

I love you for your stance and defense of innocent children, in spite of all the those who have responded negatively to you, that have been hypnotized by the evil forces that promote such genocide of children!

[Ámayas_20]

Thank you <3

[zoeadams3]

You bring up Planned Parenthood’s dirty secret. Sanger had some fans on the other side of the Atlantic who implemented an evil program under the banner of eugenics.

[Ámayas_20]

@zoeadams3 I don't know much about that at all, could you tell me a little?

[zoeadams3]

Laurie had mentioned about Margaret Sanger, Planned Parenthood’s founder, and why she actually founded PP. The left sort of buries that. Across the Atlantic refers to the “eugenics “ program of Nazi Germany.

[laurieluvsit]

@zoeadams3 Yes, Ms Zoe, you are correct.

The program to reduce world population by the wealthy elite world leaders to half a billion has expanded around the globe.

They are focusing on babies in the womb and the elderly are next on the radar.

China already uses prisoners of all ages to harvest their organs and sell them for billions per year for organ transplants. Many prisoners only crime was to speak against the communist government before they are butchered.

This is where liberalism, socialism, communism, Marxism and Leninism lead eventually.

Free speech has been all but eliminated in England now, which the liberals are trying to do in the US now, unless it is their speech only.

[SketchyStudios]

I'm somewhere in the middle, but more pro life then pro choice. I think that abortion should be a last resort, and other options should always be heavily considered. I. E: if you have a mother who will die over the course of the pregnancy, because he baby is a parasite to her, I think that abortion is a viable consideration. However, it shouldn't be used as birth control. If two consenting people have sex and are stupid about it, then by damn they should live with the consequences. But ots a tricky and touchy subject, so yeah I'll leave it at that.
Also, any abortions past 8 weeks is just plain cruel and inhumane

[Ámayas_20]

I do agree with abortion in terms of saving a woman's life it can be used.

[taleswapper]

The problem of "it's okay if the mother may die" is one of degrees of risk, and time. EVERY pregnancy is parasitic. and does real, immediate, and measurable harm to the mother. It's the nature of pregnancy. So, who decides how much risk is "enough"? And what happens if someone ELSE wants to contest it? By the time you've wended your way through all the possible permutations and legal questions, either they could both be dead, or the child is ready to apply for college.

[taleswapper]

And of course, if you decide it's NOT okay, you've just made the mother into a body-slave, at the mercy of Fate's decision. Worse, I have yet to meet a "pro-lifer" who DIDN'T insist that parental responsibility trumps everything else; that even if someone is forced by law to become a parent against their will; they must still put the child's welfare ahead of their own. And want to also punish those who fail to do so.

I shouldn't have kids. I have several hereditary abnormalities, and I'm a violent sociopath. But in your rush to "save the unborn!", you are not just giving me a child, but FORCING me to care for a child I should never have had in the first place. And you think this is a GOOD idea?

[Ámayas_20]

@taleswapper If the mother will die before the child can be born safely then abortion should be an option never anything other than those standards it's not difficult.

[taleswapper]

Oh, you think it isn't difficult, do you? Read the future with 100% accuracy? IS this superpower new, or have you had it all your life?

[taleswapper]

And where, exactly, did you get your medical degree?

[taleswapper]

My first wife DIED for want of an abortion. The unborn in her womb killed her, just as sure as if he'd put a gun to her head and pulled the trigger. Tell me again how it's not difficult to tell how risky a pregnancy is...

[Ámayas_20]

@taleswapper I don't have a medical degree which is why it wouldn't be my call which women's lives were in such threat, we can't accurately predict the future but I've honestly never heard of a perfectly healthy pregnancy suddenly killing a woman. If I'm wrong please give me an example, with a citation.

I'm sorry about your wife, that's awful, I can almost guarantee it was not a perfectly healthy pregnancy that suddenly killed her.

[taleswapper]

"I don't have a medical degree which is why it wouldn't be my call which women's lives were in such threat, we can't accurately predict the future but I've honestly never heard of a perfectly healthy pregnancy suddenly killing a woman"

Exactly! Pregnancy is NEVER a "perfectly healthy" condition; it is by it's very nature parasitic and harmful to the mother. Indeed, it so much so that the majority of pregnancies (about 54%) spontaneously end themselves; usually before mom is even aware of them.

You know who else can't tell? Doctors. Even obstetricians. Which is why they say things like "the tests don't show" "there's no evidence" or "I see no problems." Because they know they aren't omniscient, either. They hedge their bets. Your "perfectly healthy pregnancy" is a myth. A theoretical construct. A straw man argument.

And THAT'S why women get a choice. Because they are the ones who pay the price, So they get to decide if it's worth the risk, and the harm that even the best pregnancy does to them. The unborn aren't "innocent" in a legal sense, even though they're not consciously commiting a crime.

And for those who are religious, that's the true original sin. No one comes into the world an innocent; They come in through the pain and suffering and the harm they've done for months, with blood on their hands and their heads. But most of us love them anyway. And God in His wisdom clouds our minds to their sins, and gives us joy in the gift He gave us. Well, sometimes He does, anyway.

[Ámayas_20]

@taleswapper First of all pregnancies can in no way be defined as parasitic as the baby is in no way a parasite that is just a fact.

Secondly many pregnancies are perfectly healthy neither mother nor baby is harmed in any significant way.

You do realise most of the pregnancies you're talking about end due to chromosome abnormalities, it has nothing to do with the mother at all.

The unborn are perfectly innocent, your actions have lead to their lives coming to be so now you must take responsibility and have the child, you don't get to murder a baby because you can't deal with the consequences. Only women who's lives are in real danger should be given this option, which is rare.

I'm not religious so I'm not even gonna read that part.

[taleswapper]

@Amayas_20 "First of all pregnancies can in no way be defined as parasitic as the baby is in no way a parasite that is just a fact."

Sorry, NOT true "Parasitism is s form of symbiosis in which one organism (called parasite) benefits at the expense of another organism usually of different species (called host). This host-parasite association may eventuate to the injury of the host." This is EXACTLY the relationship between the embryo and mother.

"Secondly many pregnancies are perfectly healthy neither mother nor baby is harmed in any significant way."

Yeah? Show me ONE example where the mother isn't A) drained of nutrients; B) physically altered to her own detriment, and C) disadvantaged by being pregnant. Just one. I'll wait...

"You do realise most of the pregnancies you're talking about end due to chromosome abnormalities, it has nothing to do with the mother at all." I realize nothing of the sort. but thanks for asking. Tubal pregnancies come to mind. As do pregnancies where the zygote fails to implant successfully, or any of a number of other conditions fail to be met without there being ANY chromosomal damage involved. I'm betting you haven't got actual experience OR study in this area; I have both.

The rest is just more unsupported assertions and emotional pleading.

[Ámayas_20]

@taleswapper
1) Parasitism doesn't apply to babies, which you'd know if you knew the definition 'the practice of living as a parasite on or with another animal or organism' and once we define parasite 'an organism that lives in or on an organism of another species (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the other's expense' That's all I really need to say on the matter.

2) Women's bodies are designed to handle this, are you really saying some changes to your body which don't negativity affect you are examples of how pregnancy isn't healthy? You're certainly a man. Being disadvantaged is not the same as harmed ghats just so stupid it actually hurts.

3) I'm well aware of what you've said there lmao, it only goes to prove my point not yours. I have both experience and study here which you keep proving you're lying about having.

Now will you please shut your uneducated mouth and fuck off. Thanks.

[betaTester]

I never really cared that much about this topic but I think a reasonable starting point for the discussion should be to identify what are the various reasons a pregnant woman might want to choose abortion. A constructive approach is to remove those reasons as much as possible! Punishing people without properly analyzing the actual problem in depth will just create unintended consequences, and cause more harm.

If you're a human who is living inside the body of another human, (without their consent) taking their energy and nutrients, affecting their physical and emotional well being (without their consent) and eventually rip open their body through a painful process (without their consent), why should you be protected by the same set of laws that protect humans who don't live inside other humans? The consent of the host matters. So I think the analogy between not giving this consent to punching someone is completely retarded.

"there is no way to tell which women have actually been raped and which are using it as an excuse to have an abortion." I find it hard to believe you're a rape victim, unless he damaged your brain too. How can a rape ever be verified? 😂 by your logic they could all just be an excuse for the woman's defective decision making. Imagine someone tell you "there is no way to tell which women have actually been raped and which are using it to ruin a man's life". Of course rape cases are handled the usual way by your legal system, and if it is ruled as a rape, then abortion should be allowed (this is something even most conservatives could understand)

The ban on abortion can have an interesting consequence, rapists are typically deranged, mentally challenged, low IQ, genetically inferior humans. With more people like you, the defected humans with genetic diseases who couldn't find a mate can just simply overpower women, rape them and keep them long enough for conception and voilà they can spread their genes to the next generation. It is not a coincidence that many "pro life" people are incels, I admire them for using this strategy to avoid being genetic dead ends, that's some dedication. My stance here is that I am simply against subhumans and the devolution of our species :)

[Ámayas_20]

1) I agree to an extent, sex education and access to contraception is a very important part as I don't believe abortion should be removed over night or without making sure people are aware of how to avoid pregnancy.

2) 99% of people who have abortions willing had sex, they knew the possible consequences this IS there consent. If you would kill a human being because you don't want to be pregnant you shouldn't have sex in the first place.

3) Rapes are always a grey area, I tend to see it as if the person was convicted (Talking about strangers) I'll believe you, this doesn't mean I believe you're entitled to kill a human being because you went through something horrible. Not to mention how long rape cases are and the baby would most likely be either born or in the third trimester before the abortion could even take place going by such rules.

4) Many deranged, mentally challenged, stupid, genetically inferior humans reproduce anyway and these qualities don't make someone any less human. Not only are not all rapists this way (Evilness is the only factor that is always present in a rapist) it doesn't guarantee their kids would be this way and again it bring the question do these qualities make someone less human therefore not entitled to life? That's a dangerous precedent.

[Ámayas_20]

willingly*

[FakeName123]

The abortion debate comes down to a single question. Do we consider the fetus a human being or not?
Because if we do, then abortion is plain murder - and I dare to say that 99% people think murder is worse than losing your bodily autonomy in one single instance that you can control yourself.
If it is just a "flesh of cells", then abortion is perfectly fine.

So what defines a human being is the big question - and this is where it gets tricky.
Is it consciousness and self-awareness? What about people in a (wake-) coma then?
Is it stage of development? What makes a fetus pre-birth different to a baby post-birth other than it being different stages of the humans development that goes up to 16-18 years of age?
Is it necessary being able to survive on its own? What about babies then? Or people who are chronically ill?

So on and so forth. And this is why most religious people think abortion is morally wrong. because they define the fetus as a human being and consider it murder - but you don't have to be religious to think the fetus is a human being.

[goaded]

"Is it consciousness and self-awareness? What about people in a (wake-) coma then?"
People in a coma have been concious and self-aware. (I don't know what you mean by wake-coma.)

"stage of development", see above.

"being able to survive on its own? What about babies..." Babies can be taken care of by other people than their mother. You know this.

[FakeName123]

@goaded
"People in a coma have been concious and self-aware."
Not all. There cases where thats correct, but also cases where it isn't.

"Babies can be taken care of by other people than their mother. You know this."
And they would still die, if not done so. So what's the difference between being able to survive inside or outside the womb? You are just simplifying this matter.

[goaded]

Not many, if any. I'm not "simplifying" it, it's relatively simple. Nobody is entitled to use your body for sustenance without your consent.

[FakeName123]

@goaded
1. You made the decision BEFORE having sex that you involve yourself in an action that has consequences. No one forces you to have sex, either. Doesn't mean you are entitled to opt out of the consequences.
2. I explained it very clearly. If the human fetus _IS_ considered a human being, then abortion is plain murder. No ifs or buts. Now the question is _IF_ and _WHEN_ the fetus is considered a human being. And once that is a given, then preventing murder DOES trump a persons right to bodily autonomy. Especially if its a bodily function that the entire body is built to sustain

[goaded]

OK, so there's a discussion to be had regarding at what point a fetus becomes a person with rights.

I'm happy to have that conversation, but not when the other side is lying about my position. (And I'd be interested to see anything about someone in a coma who has never been concious and self-aware, I don't believe that ever happens.)

[FakeName123]

@goaded
I am talking about the comatose person lacking conscious. You are seemingly talking about the person having been conscious prior to the coma.

[goaded]

I see the problem, now. Yes, I wrote: "People in a coma have been concious and self-aware.", meaning, by "... have been...", "... were previously...".

[Inneedofusername]

Actually, it is not about this question, it's about another. Can we take away someone's bodily autonomy? Would you vote for such a law? ↗

[Ámayas_20]

@Inneedofusername You're the one that supports taking away someone's bodily autonomy to the point they can be legally murdered, you would vote for such a law.

[Inneedofusername]

No, I actually am the one that wouldn't vote even for forcing someone to give their blood to someone even if it could save someone's life, because that person is the only one who can decide what happens to their blood.

[FakeName123]

@Inneedofusername
Except that it is comparing apples with pears.

1. You have the choice. That's the choice you make before you spread your legs and let a penis enter. And if you use contraception or not. And even _IF_ contraception fails then you made the choice beforehand knowing that contraception is never 100% safe.

2. Removing a kidney is unnatural. Being pregnant is literally the sole purpose the entire female body is built for.

[Inneedofusername]

1. Then you are forcing people to never have sex in their life (which is a need on the same basic level as sleeping and eating). If that is your opinion, just state it, stop hiding behind "you want people to be responsible" and say what it mean, which is "you want people to stay virgins forever"
2. Actually, pregnancy is much worse than giving up your kidney. It is one of the most disgusting and destructive things a female can go through. I would rather fucking die than let my sex life be destroyed this way

[FakeName123]

@Inneedofusername
1. I am forcing people to be repsonsible for the actions of their consequences. I know, it's tough shit, but self-responsiblity is a thing.
2. Then tie your knots, princess. You don't need an abortion then, anyway.
Aside from your medical argument being fundamentally wrong.

[Inneedofusername]

Women without one kidney aren't ugly, women after pregnancy are disgusting and no hot men want to fuck them.

And once again you are hiding. Stop. Just say what it actually means, that is being a virgin forever and not fulfilling a basic need

[FakeName123]

@Inneedofusername
I rather be ugly than unhealthy. But I see where your priorities are, lol.

Sex isn't a basic need. Breathing, drinking and eating are. But you can survive all your life without having sex. Sex only becomes a basic need in the grand scheme of the species survival. But then again it isn't a basic need to you, because you want to have sex without procreation and thus you fall out of the grid once again.

[Ámayas_20]

@Inneedofusername You're the one advocating for murder cause you don't think people should take responsibility and not murder children because it risks... stretch marks.

[Inneedofusername]

Hemorrhoids, varicose veins, serious spine problems, streched out uglier than before skin, waist will never again be as intended as it was, muscular space of the rectus abdominis muscle, hair loss after birth, urinary incontinence, ripped crotch and sometimes even anus, disgusting pendulous breasts with ugly big nipples, kidney problems, diabetes
That's all that I know of and there is certainly more, I just don't know all of them.
Bringing all the possible consequences of pregnancy to just stretch marks is a joke

[Ámayas_20]

@Inneedofusername Believe me I know the risks of pregnancy I just find it funny that the first thing you mention is it can ruin your body, your real concern is that of all pro-choice women complete selfish desire most of the things you have to say are cosmetic anyway it's honestly disgusting that you'd murder a baby for your own comfort.

[Inneedofusername]

Abortion is illegal, so I would have to miscarriage if you are assuming this scenario of sterilization failing (because yes, even sterilization fails). I don't consider a fetus a person, but that is not important what we call that parasite. I don't see why would I give up on the only thing that matters to me in life for something that doesn't have any value for me

[Ámayas_20]

@Inneedofusername First of all the baby is not by any definition a parasite, secondly because you're shallow doesn't give you the right to kill a human being. Sterilisation isn't 100% effective in some forms but can be if you have literally everything removed.

[taleswapper]

False dichotomy. It's not enough that a human being be killed to be murder; it must be done in an unlawful manner. And THAT is why abortion performed lawfully are not murder.

[taleswapper]

@Amayas_20; "First of all the baby is not by any definition a parasite, " it is, however parasitic. Unborn children are parasites in every sense except one; they are of the same species as the host. They feed on the body of the host; they do real, immediate, and measurable harm.

"Parasitism is s form of symbiosis in which one organism (called parasite) benefits at the expense of another organism usually of different species (called host)." - https://www.biology-online.org/dictionary/Parasite

[FakeName123]

@taleswapper
"It's not enough that a human being be killed to be murder; it must be done in an unlawful manner"

So if the government tells you it's fine to kill demographic X, then it isn't murder anymore and justifies your malevolence as perfectly acceptable behaviour. Also you are taking your morals from what government says instead of creating your own moral compass.
That mindset worked great during the holocaust, right? It wasn't murder or anything, because the NSDAP said so.

You people really don't think the idiocy through that you are spouting.

Furthermore the fetus is NOT a parasite. A parasite not only reqires to be of a different species, but also the competition of ressources within the host. But the mother benefits from the fetus through stemcells and other means.
Additionally in case of ressource-sparcity - in this case nutrients - the body adjusts to it and ensures the mothers survival over the survival of the fetus. A fairly recent study has found that out.
Not to mention that a parasite is an INVADING organism and usually harms the hosts reproductive system as well as causes antibodies.

There are more differences. Ask any biologist of your choice.

[taleswapper]

"So if the government tells you it's fine to kill demographic X, then it isn't murder anymore and justifies your malevolence as perfectly acceptable behaviour. "

No. Straw man argument. Knock it off; it's a logical error, and you know it.

"You people really don't think the idiocy through that you are spouting."

Ad hominem error.

"A parasite not only reqires to be of a different species, but also the competition of ressources within the host. But the mother benefits from the fetus through stemcells and other means." Got a citation? I showed you mine, after all. An oak tree can be said to "benefit" from the rotting leaves of the kudzu vine, but that doesn't mean that the kudzu isn't a parasite and that it won't eventually kill the oak. Facts noty in evidence.

"Additionally in case of ressource-sparcity - in this case nutrients - the body adjusts to it and ensures the mothers survival over the survival of the fetus. A fairly recent study has found that out."
Citation? The host of the tapeworm can adjust to it; doesn't make the tapeworm less paracisitc. Again, facts not in evidence.

"Not to mention that a parasite is an INVADING organism and usually harms the hosts reproductive system as well as causes antibodies." Which the unborn can do. Thank you. There are any number of ways being pregnant can ruin you reproductive system, from damage to the uterine wall to tubal pregnancies. And leakage of blood across the placental barrier is one of the ways that the mother's body produces antibodies that eventually kill the unborn; thank's for that reminder, as well.

Counter argument fails. Unsupported. The unborn is parasitic.

[Ámayas_20]

@taleswapper You’ve been proven wrong by two people now. You can’t even make a straight point.

I’m trying to be nice as you’ve obviously been traumatised by your late wife’s death but please stop talking.

[taleswapper]

"You’ve been proven wrong by two people now. You can’t even make a straight point."
I've proven two people wrong now. you just refuse to acknowledge it.

"I’m trying to be nice as you’ve obviously been traumatised by your late wife’s death but please stop talking."

You're so traumatized by being unable to counter my arguments, you're unable to form a coherent one of your own. Please stop talking

[Ámayas_20]

@taleswapper Okay dude, I'm not going to push this because it's obviously a bad subject for you. Hope you can learn to cope.

[taleswapper]

I've learned to cope much better than you have, apparently. Cheers! :)

[TonyMetal_86]

I'm happy that you have changed, now your on the right track, i think that god had made his path his path threw your heart and mind.

Abortion is never acceptable and that's why i always keep telling that sex should be after marriage or at least with someone who's willing to marry you for sure.

When a woman gets pregnant she runs to her husband hug him tight, kiss him and tell him the good news, the man will hug his wife ans celebrate it and he might start kissing her tummy everynightm now he have his wife and another family member is being created inside the womb of his wife, it's something great and many things will happe while the woman is pregnant such as the man will take his wife to choose stuff for the baby before he or she comes out to life...

I love marriage and family life 😍

[Ámayas_20]

I don't believe in God but I do agree. People can have sex whenever they want but it's much smarter to wait until you're stable and with someone who will be a good parent if the situation arises.

[TonyMetal_86]

One day you will believe in god just like the way you did change with virginity 😊

[Ámayas_20]

I never changed my opinion on virginity, just abortion. I actually used to be religious, it's another thing I grew out of and changed my view on.

[TonyMetal_86]

Well i hope that you return to it someday in a wise way to know the truth and see the light

[Ámayas_20]

Well I won't, but thank you for the kindness.

[TonyMetal_86]

Your welcome...

[Drooogie4]

Being married and having sex still doesn't mean you want a baby or should have to have one.

[Inneedofusername]

@Drooogie4 Exactly

[Salmon4056]

I agree that when a woman has an abortion it is not only her body she is making a decision for but another human being a choice that infringes on the child's right to life, the most basic and fundamental human right. some people just put other things over life and some people have lost the value of human life by choosing to compare the unborn people to possibly becoming like the people they dislike today. I personally would not do an abortion as I would not like it done to me if it were the other way around.

[SammyGurl]

Very well written, well thought out, extremely logical myTake. Throughout my teen years I was always on the fence regarding prochoice or prolife seeing the "benefits" of both sides of the argument, I mostly leaned to the side of prolife, but at times agreed that prochoice might be the right choice too. It wasn't until I saw my twin boys on the ultrasound and heard two distinct heartbeats that my mind was 100% made up, I too am Prolife! It's not just a blob of cells, tissue or anything else you may wish to call it. That's a child, a tiny human being, maybe even the person who will cure cancer or some other horrible disease. When I saw my boys faces for the first time, I fell in love with them, just further cemented my reasoning.

[RSong]

I understand why people choose to be pro choice. Personally, I am pro life due to my personal convictions regarding personhood. Should abortions be illegal? I don't think so. I also think that young people, both men and women, need to take part in safer sex practices. Pregnancy is a risk you take when having sex with or without protection. Be responsible enough to accept the cosequences of your actions and if you are not ready to have a child, don't take the risk. Practice self-control and don't make the unborn pay for your poor choices.
As for rape victims or people who had sex forced upon them, they should have the power to decide for themselves what is best for them because they were not involved in deciding that for themselves the first time.

[Hurdleez-Swampede]

Yeah. Rape victims can be men or women. You never hear women supporting a raped man as a right to abort his baby when she forced his seed to come inside her. It is only what helps women.

I am glad you chose the winning side now.

A body inside of a body is not her body bit is another's body.

[morimeme1]

Well it's not the man who has to face the consequences of having a child (if we ignore the fact that 99.9% of male rape cases is where a man rapes a man).
If it is a separate body and not her own then it has no place being inside her without her consent using her bodily resources. Much like a parasite but you would have no problem exterminating those.

[Hurdleez-Swampede]

@morimeme1
It is consent to be in her body if she isn't raped.

Matters not. If a man was raped, no woman would think the man can tell the woman he doesn't want to be a father.

[morimeme1]

Just having sex, especially protected sex does not equal consent to pregnancy and 20 years of child care. That's not how the real world works, it is the same as to say that getting married is permanent consent to sex (but I guess many men believe that too cause "marital rape does not exist").
I don't know what kind of a man is can get raped by a woman tho, but the thing is that nobody should be forced to give birth the same as nobody can be forced to get an abortion.

[Hurdleez-Swampede]

@morimeme1
There are women who don't think marital rape exists.

But when people have sex willfully, they know the potential outcome is that they can have a baby. So they do the activity knowing what could result.

[morimeme1]

Yes that is a risk but people should be able to choose for themselves how they will deal with the consequences, terminate the pregnancy or leave it.

[Hurdleez-Swampede]

@morimeme1
OK. Dealing with consequences that you don't like that could have been avoided but it is pointless to debate now.

[morimeme1]

Yeah it is, but I am not protecting the ones where it could be avoided, I am protecting the ones where it couldn't and these two just happen to be inseparable in the face of law.

[Hurdleez-Swampede]

@morimeme1
What do you mean? That laws banning abortion due to rape like Alabama and Louisiana have gone too far?

[morimeme1]

Yes they have gone far too far

[Ámayas_20]

@morimeme1 Get off of this post before I block you, I'm not dealing with you any more.

[morimeme1]

But I guess at least they are not hypocrites, you either ban all or allow all (due date is a separate concern). It just so happens I care about the wellbeing of grown women and their lives way more than underdeveloped fetuses. Matter of subjective moral judgement.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

Are you Republican or Democrat?
I'm a Republican and I used to be for abortion, after hearing some of the arguments from my own party, I am now against it as well, especially because of the third trimester thing.
Also, my biology teacher once showed us an aborted fetus. That was a real wake up call.

[Ámayas_20]

I'm not American lol

[ZeussLightningBolt]

OH...
Than are you whichever British party is generally pro abortion?

[Ámayas_20]

Sadly all British parties are pro-abortion.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

REALLY?

[slatyb]

Third trimester abortions are only performed in extremis, when the fetus is not viable and/or the mother's life would be endangered by continuing the pregnancy (usually it's AND). Are you so cruel that you would force a woman to give birth to a baby certain to be stillborn or to die almost immediately due to anencephaly (no brain)? No doctor performs elective third trimester abortions.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

@slatyb Well no. Some girl didn't believe me that they perform abortions when the baby is almost developed. She said it's illegal.

Well if the mother's life is in danger, yeah

What if the baby has a mental retardation?

[ZeussLightningBolt]

I don't know why some women die from child birth

[Ámayas_20]

@ZeussLightingBlot Yeah unfortunately parties here are to scared to be pro-life.

[joeshi]

The whole government system is dumb they are just having women so they don’t have to pay for their abortion (insurance). The government won’t allow a 16 year old to adopt a child because of financial reasons and so on but they are allowed to bring a baby into this world?

[morimeme1]

I think the fertility clinic argument is very comparable actually, it just puts you in a more extreme situation. Everyone will have a different response? The same as in pregnancy, some will save the child (stay pregnant), some will freeze (panic), some will save themselves (abort). If your primal instinct is to save the child it is proof that at least subconsciously you know, that a child is worth more than an embryo.

[morimeme1]

Plus, if you talk about rights, there are no inherent rights, the only rights you really can reference is if you believe in the Bible, reality is - it's pure luck, just like conception itself. There is this century long philosophical thought about the potentiality argument. "If x has the potential to become y, then x should be treated the same as y." Yet it really doe snot make sense, we never take such approach in real life, for example, I am a medical student, I have a very high potential of becoming a doctor but it doesn't mean that I should be treated as a doctor already.

[Ámayas_20]

The fertility argument is beyond stupid, I'm too lazy to actually type everything out again so here's a copy pasted quick run over of why ' here we go 99% of people will pick the 5 year old this however does not discount the embryos as people. This is because it's an instinct the same as if there is 100 children in one room and your own in another most parents will save their own child (As a mum I say this without shame) this doesn't mean they don't value the lives of other children just instinctually save their own.

It's also the case of passive vs direct action, a good way to demonstrate this is the whole train on the track on will kill 5 people the other 1 do you switch to the track to kill 1, most people say yes. If you change the scenario so they have to push the man in front of the train the amount of people who would sharply drops.'

I'm not religious many pro-life people aren't, it doesn't have potential to become it already is. Have you ever actually researched into foetal development, from the moment of conception the child's DNA is all there they only have to develop and grow just like a child or a teenager.

[morimeme1]

But that IS the same, it is just subjective, yes that 1 guy does have value that equals any one of those 5 guys on the rails but since you are able to even actively engage (pull the lever to redirect the train) it shows that you still think that 5 lives is still better than 1.

[morimeme1]

I am just not a hypocrite so I can freely admit to myself that fact, I can even admit that I generally dislike people and regarding many of them have thought that evergone would be better off had they been aborted.

[morimeme1]

Yeah, it's all there, it was also scattered in parts when some sperm cells did not make it to the egg, when some sperm cells were directed in other places, they just happened to get together, a pure accident, but we are no campaining against oral sex or masturbation the way they have done in ancient traditions are we, they did say that no one should waste a mans "life juice".

[Ámayas_20]

Do you actually not understand the difference between a sperm cell and a foetus? I'm sorry but that's just crazy, did you sit though a single biology lesson? A sperm cell is a haploid human cell, a foetus is a diploid human being in the early stages of development.

If you don't actually understand why the fertility argument is bullshit I can't help you any more than I already have, many pro-choice people run from that argument now as they understand why it doesn't help them.

[morimeme1]

It goes both ways, trust me, I know more about haploid cells than you ever will, but I just can't comprehend what makes you think that more moral value can be attributed to two haploid cells combined (that first create a diploid zygote and then develop into a fetus) to two separate ones. It makes no objective sense therefore can only be attributed to subjective understanding.

[morimeme1]

I think this is a very unproductive discussion as none of us has their mind open to change their beliefs when faced with any type or argument or fact which is a crucial part. I have made my choice that I will always value a grown person's life more than a fetus and do not conceive abortion as a bad thing because really nobody loses anything from it, not even the fetus because you can't lose something you don't have and don't have the capacity to comprehend loss. You have your own set of beliefs built by personal experience and I know there is nothing more firm than something like that so let's just leave it as is.

[Ámayas_20]

I actually have changed my beliefs on this topic I was pro-choice and if evidence was actually presented to me that proves life doesn't being at conception (Which all current evidence says it does) I would change my mind again, you're the only close minded one here.

[morimeme1]

That is the thing I was hinting here, that you already were on the other side. Calling others close minded when you don't understand the basic concept that two cells together are just as alive as each one individually sounds pretentious but oh well, guess people are not as capable of self reflection as I am, sorry to expect so much of you.

[Ámayas_20]

Now you're just getting bitchy to make yourself feel better because you know you're the close minded one and that you're the one who rejects the evidence placed at your feet for your own convince. I hope you become better one day.

[morimeme1]

There is no evidence on your side other that your own feelings, the law and science disagree with you what else is there to say.

[Ámayas_20]

You're wrong, I hope you do one day open your mind and actually look at the science and law is different in may places, it's a really terrible argument.

[morimeme1]

If only you accepted science, but ignorance comes a long way. Why do people think that there even is one sole true answer, it is all subjective judgement. You had an abortion, did not think it through and now regret it so you want to rob other women of that chance to choose.

[Ámayas_20]

You speak of abortion as if it's always a choice and there you're dead wrong, my abortion was not a choice and actually at that time I didn't even understand what it was. In my late teens I was very passionately pro-choice but now I know that was so I didn't ever have to grieve and realise the reality of my situation, my baby was murdered.

You need to open your eyes, look at the science, and look at the truth. There is only one correct answer here, if you really believed that that baby was not alive you'd think so too.

[morimeme1]

I am not ignorant enought to think there is a universally correct answer to this.

[Ámayas_20]

Then you're far more ignorant than you believe you are.

[morimeme1]

Sure

[morimeme1]

If you wish to believe that, I guess no logic can stop you from ignorantly believing that the world revolves around a sack of meat that is a human.

[Ámayas_20]

Oh my god, I'm sorry I ever spoke to you I didn't realise you were such an idiot as to not understand when discussing an issue about humans you talk about humans.

Goodbye, you'll stop being so ignorant one day.

[morimeme1]

You just assumed that, cool, but my real point was about how your whole argument is based on a belief that humans are entitled to some universal rights to life from the start of conception which really has no solid ground to support it.

[EmbraceThePain]

I’m glad you joined the club, happy to have you.

#prolife

As for my specific or more in-depth view on my position as a pro-life, those who are interested can PM me or scroll through my profile for what I’ve said on this issue.

[megaman242]

That you had an bad experience don't mean that everyone will. Your point of view is a selfish one. If a building was on fire and there where 50 living grown up people in there and 50 fetus in a jar or something, who would you save? No brain no life. What most pro life people never consider is that some of them unborn children will grow up and become transgender, poor or kronlical ill in some way and most pro people are not pro that strangely enough, if your pro life then they are life to. We are over populated as it is on the word that WE are killing, pro life my ass, we should be saving the world instead of trying to get more kids be born that might die because of us destroying the world. Not ready, don't want kids, to poor, raped and may other reasons are valid reasons, it's not up to you and your selfish point of view.

[Ámayas_20]

So you don't believe we can stop killing babies and help save the planet... right so you must also think that killing someone on the street isn't wrong as the world is over populated, might be trans, poor or ill.

[curiousnorway]

- We've contraception.
- Better sex ed. makes more people aware on how to avoid unwanted pregnancies.
- The way abortions are performed are painful. It's either burning chemical pills or surgeries where limbs gets crushed, ripped off etc.
- No one can decide which life is worth, has the right to live etc. That would be a sorting society.
- We can solve poverty problems in another way too.
- We won't be overpopulated if more people gets a better living standard. There are different population stages we can go through.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsBT5EQt348

[taleswapper]

@curiousnorway Lovely; thank you. :)

[Alpha09]

Just a question, do you think that little girls who are raped (the 11 year old in Ohio for example) should be forced to carry to term? Even if they do not want to? That's two occasions where consent is ignored. 1 being she was forced to have sex not to mention she's a child. 2 now she's being forced to bear a child.
Your thoughts?

[Ámayas_20]

It depends on if having the child is a huge risk which at such an age it probably is, if not then yes she should carry to term. Just because she is a child doesn't mean she gets to kill another child.

[Alpha09]

It takes a special kind of sick to think that's ok...

[Ámayas_20]

Takes a special kind of sick to want to murder children, but then again there you are.

[Alpha09]

I'm not interested in making a child continue carrying a fetus that isn't a child to begin with if she doesn't want to. She's a little girl, and a man forced himself on her and your willing to force her to do have it. Easy for you to say, you sad piece of shit.

[Ámayas_20]

You don't know shit about me so don't tell me what is 'easy for me' that unborn is a child the same as any other, you can choose to ignore that so you can sleep better but it will never change.

You're a pathetic cunt if I'm being honest and you really need to learn to shut your mouth.

[Alpha09]

Seems easy enough for you. And no I don't know much about you at all. But if you've gone through something similar to that girl, I would think you would at least have the heart to give the her a choice. And yes I sleep just fine, because I understand that forcing someone to do something just because Its the choice I would make is bullshit. And seriously if you can't handle what other people have to say on a post you posted for comments, or just plain ole attention don't post. Problem solved lol

[Ámayas_20]

So you know nothing about me but believe just because I've gone through something I'd come out wanting to kill children? No. One day you'll finally allow yourself to know the truth about those unborn babies and knowing what you've been okay with will kill you.

Also don't be a hypocrite you clearly can't handle people's opinions so don't ask them questions, you spoke to me not the other way around and I was perfectly civil until you called me sick.

[Alpha09]

Nobody is asking you to kill children. Just simply to let another person make thier own decision wether or not you agree with it.
Your opinion isn't special I've heard it countless times from different people so I'm handling it just fine, I just find it incredibly amusing to speak to you even tho I'm aware your not going to change your mind. And technically you spoke to everyone on gag first when you posted this. And civil? Really lol all I had to do was call you sick and you lost it. Once again incredibly amusing.

[Ámayas_20]

First of all I never lost it I simply called you out, if you think that's losing it you're going to have a very very hard life. No one is asking me to kill children but they are asking me to be okay with other people killing children, you'll understand some day. Now be nice or fuck off.

[Alpha09]

Your the one who threw "cunt" out there at the drop of a hat. That's hardly calling someone out it's just reacting. Nothing special. And once again nobody is asking you to be ok with it, just to simply mind your own business and worry about your own body and what you do with it. You don't have to like it. You can totally think how you do and not legally try to get it forced on others. And if you're definition of being nice is everyone agreeing with you and not having opposing views then your gonna have a "very very hard life."

[Ámayas_20]

First of all you're over reacting to a word, I never over reacted by my use of it cunt is hardly a big insult anyway. Secondly no one is asked me to be okay with it? Actually you are right now by telling me I shouldn't legally try and save the lives of the millions of children murdered every year, I worry about those who cannot defend themselves so no it's got nothing to do with 'minding your own business' and lastly I don't expect everyone to agree with you were just particularly rude from the beginning so yeah I'm gonna call you what you are.

[Alpha09]

Lol I completely forgot about this pointless conversation 😂

[Ámayas_20]

As did I until the notification came through.

[MMWI04]

There’s a little human the moment the sperm fertilizes the egg. There’s life. Always pro-life.

[patrickjvv]

If all these nonsensical "arguments" convinced you, you weren't really pro-choice to begin with. Relying on nonsensical comparisons when you don't have anything of substance to add is pretty much what the pro-lifers have been doing for the past few decades. That and bombing abortion clinics of course.

[MarineBubbles]

THIS.

[Ámayas_20]

How are they nonsensical? Rather than making a blanket statement actually tell me what gives you the right to kill a baby?

[slatyb]

You are ignoring the cost and risk to the woman in carrying a pregnancy to term and delivering. You are equating a 1 ounce fetus with a seven pound fully developed baby. Did you know that at least half of all pregnancies result in spontaneous abortions? All those fetuses die unmourned, so we don't really think of them as babies. A fetus is not a baby any more than the pint of blood I donated last week is a man. But a pregnant woman is a person and she gets to decide.

[Ámayas_20]

Wtf is a spontaneous abortion? Do you mean miscarriages? If so you really need to look into what effects miscarriage has and just how mourned these babies are when the mothers know.

How is a pint of blood that was donated an equivalent to a child with the possibility to do anything and live comparable?

[Drooogie4]

Spontaneous abortion is the medical term for a miscarriage.

[slatyb]

Many spontaneous abortions are dismissed with "my period was late". Human fetal wastage is between 50% and 60%. If you believe that each fetus has a soul, what happens to all those souls? Are they reused in future conceptions? Do they go to heaven? Limbo?

[Ámayas_20]

I don't believe in souls at all, so that really isn't an argument here. If the miscarriage can be seen as a late period the woman wouldn't have even know she was pregnant, if she did a few heartless bitches hardly make a point.

[Grond21]

Wow! 😀 Very well written and I greatly appreciate you sharing this with us!!

[Anonymous]

You have the right to feel however you feel but you’ll never have the right to demand others to see it the same way. Pro choice.

[Ámayas_20]

I have no right to tell you how to feel that's true. This isn't about feeling though it's about murdering babies.

[Zodiac10]

I agree

[Rissyanne]

Liberals love killing babies

[Drooogie4]

@Rissyanne Republicans love forcing babies to be born and then refusing to do anything about their care post birth.

[Ámayas_20]

@Drooogie4 Why do you feel the need to make everything partisan? You do also realise many people here aren't from the US? You are also aware that there are more options than getting money from the government to help people? No... didn't think so...

[Drooogie4]

She said "liberals love killing babies". How is what I said any more ridiculous?

[Rissyanne]

@Drooogie4 so you are pro life?

[Ámayas_20]

@Drooogie4 Liberals do love killing babies as they support abortion, it's not partisan, covers the whole world, AND doesn't claim an entitlement to a government funded life.

[Drooogie4]

@Rissyanne nope. I'll support being pro choice to the end. But I think if you wanna be so pro life, that should extend into caring for kids that have been born. Not just fetuses. Because it seems like most conservatives are all about forcing kids to be born and then have a "fuck the kids" attitude if their situation sucks beyond that.

[Drooogie4]

Fetuses are not babies. And nobody "loves" abortion. Believing it to be a right doesn't mean you love it.

[Rissyanne]

@Drooogie4 but you are for it. Conservatives just want people to be responsible. And don’t give me “mother’s life” bull shit. This isn’t the 1950’s. And if you believe in late term abortion... you are just plain sick. There is no reason to have a late term abortion. You need to see the movie “Unplanned”. You would change your mind. And if you didn’t change your mind after seeing it... then you are just plain evil.

[Rissyanne]

My niece was very ill. They delivered the baby at 32 weeks. Now that baby is 9 months old and is thriving. People like you would have murdered that baby.

[Drooogie4]

@Rissyanne late term abortions are done out of medical necessity. I'm not referring to those. I'm referring to asap, as soon as you know you're pregnant abortions.
ALSO, If you can't afford a kid, an abortion is being responsible. Forcing someone to have a kid who cannot afford it isn't letting them be responsible.

[Drooogie4]

@Rissyanne Lol I'm not trying to murder 32 week babies. Nobody is.

[Ámayas_20]

@Rissyanne I'm so glad your nieces baby is okay, how is your niece doing?

[Ámayas_20]

@Drooogie4 Many people are and you are no better than them don't act like you are.

[Rissyanne]

@Drooogie4 please show me a case that they had to kill the baby to save the mother. In 2019. I am not talking about delivering it early. I’m talking about going up in the mother turning the baby around. Pulling everything out except the head and jamming something sharp in the base of the head. That is late term abortion... or as I call it... murder.

[Rissyanne]

My niece is doing great and so is the baby... thanks

[Drooogie4]

@Rissyanne I hope you know that's inaccurate. Do your research. Late term abortions aren't legal anywhere unless done from necessity. Meaning 25 weeks and on.

[Rissyanne]

@Drooogie4 there is no necessity. Please show me how it is a necessity in 2019.

[Drooogie4]

@Rissyanne lol you obviously have hard formed opinions over no research. If the fetus is dying or dead, if the pregnancy is endangering the mother, if the pregnancy is ectopic, etc.

[Rissyanne]

@Drooogie4 I guess you can’t show me a circumstance that a third trimester abortion would be necessary

[Rissyanne]

@Drooogie4 an ectopic pregnancy isn’t a third trimester abortion. How many children have you had? If the fetus is dead or dying it’s called a miscarriage. You are the one who doesn’t know what you are talking about. Tell me a circumstance where someone would have a late term abortion. A circumstance where they go in and turn the baby around pull out everything but the head. Them jam a sharp instrument in the base of its skull.

[Drooogie4]

@Rissyanne you literally have no clue how abortions work. No, an ectopic pregnancy would be early term. Also, not all fetuses that die are miscarried. Sometimes they remain in utero. Dead. It happens. Or in cases where they would surely die shortly after birth. Also in those cases they typically perform and section and make it a gentle process. They don't just RIP apart 3rd trimester babies. at least not in legal settings. I don't know where you get your information from. But you definitely have only heard the propaganda that all the conservatives want you to hear.

[Rissyanne]

@Drooogie4 you need to learn how to read. I never said an ectopic pregnancy was third trimester. And you never answered my questions. How many children do you have? And she me a case in 2019 where you have to abort the baby in the third trimester to save the mother’s life.

[Drooogie4]

@Rissyanne i was agreeing that ectopic pregnancies weren't a 3rd trimester issue.
#2, I dont keep up on every 3rd semester necessity cause. I just can promise you no "casual" abortions are done at that time as it takes a doctor ordering !,# typically a surgery, not just a visit to a clinic. Also i had a friend who had to have one at 30 weeks due to the fetus dying in utero and her not miscarrying. She had to have it surgically removed. So, that would be once instance. They didn't "rip the baby apart".
#3, I have no kids and I plan to keep it that way. Thus, I've done my research on abortions if it ever came to that.

[Rissyanne]

@Drooogie4 good because people like you don’t need to procreate

[Rissyanne]

That’s all I have to say on this. Muting

[Drooogie4]

@Rissyanne lol okay

[Scarecrow13]

This is a very comprehensive mytake. There are many others like you, who started out pro-choice but through circumstances and maybe even studying biology or philosophy, came around to being pro-life.

[Anonymous]

You're in a fertility clinic. Why isn't important. The fire alarm goes off. You run for the exit. As you run down this hallway, you hear a child screaming from behind a door. You throw open the door and find a five-year-old child crying for help
They're in one corner of the room. In the other corner, you spot a frozen container labeled "1000 Viable Human Embryos." The smoke is rising. You start to choke. You know you can grab one or the other, but not both before you succumb to smoke inhalation and die, saving no one.
ou A) save the child, or B) save the thousand embryos? There is no "C." "C" means you all die.

[Thotkiana]

if u had to choose between an adult and a child which one would pick

[Opinion Owner]

@Thotkiana That's not an answer

[Ámayas_20]

I actually covered this argument, so I'm not going to respond again.

[Opinion Owner]

Your question is repeated so often it has become a troll : www.google.com/search

[taleswapper]

False dilemma. the obvious answer is you put out the fire, thereby saving them all. but let's say that's off the table. Even IF the child is saved, you haven't condemned the unborn. It takes a LOT of heat to render the frozen embryos viable. they're stored at a very cold temperature, in almost indestructible containers that are heavily insulated. Liquid nitrogen, at a temp of about -2000 C. As heat is applied to the outside of the container, the nitrogen boils, but like water, while it boils off, the temperature is steady. The specific heat of nitrogen is such that you'd STILL have to wait DAYS before those embryos are damaged beyond viability. I could rescue the child, run to the nearest fire station, commandeer a fire retardant suit, run back, put it on, go inside the clinic, grab the container, drag it out, put it on a plane to a nearby clinic in another city, and STILL rescue them all.