How offensive do you find the two finger salute to be?

[sjoes006]

I've been expelled from a pub for using it when I was much younger.

[FrenchyRomain]

Here is it's origin... France and England didn't like each other so much for centuries and have waged war against each other. While we (the French : yes i am French) had a feared cavalry throughout Europe, englishmen had excellent archers. So to dissuade the English, the French would take archers prisoner and cut 1 finger (used to shoot with a bow)... to taunt the French, englishmen used that 2 finger salute to say "fuck off asshole you won't get me !"... now you know why you got kicked out... in the UK it is worse than a middle finger

[sjoes006]

See yeah I also agree with that. If I had an English tongue it wouldn't have been nearly as bad. But my accent isn't British and I was also speaking French to some in the bar and hanging out with Irishmen, it was St Patty's and we were just off Piccadilly where there was a parade earlier.

Honestly it was a decade ago. It was out of character for me. I think it was the one night I was a bad 'American' tourist, the one and only. I qualified for citizenship through birthright for France, Ireland and the UK. Gosh, some people wanted me to talk about Bush and of course I had nothing but horrible things to say and apologise for.

I was flagged for attention because of what I was saying about GW Bush, it was early 2005. I was studying Co situational Law, Foreign Relations and states right v federalists. No one liked Bush but no one also spoke as open handedly about h as. i did so when a bouncer told me I was being offensive I gave him the salute. 😳

[sjoes006]

I don't know in the moment I felt it was one of those I can talk bad about my family but you can't kind of things. My accent was American and I wasn't saying anything that didn't get said everyday in the states.

But the British are different in that way. It was time for me to go. I was saying things my new audience agreed with and wanted to say but couldn't.

I love England and I really like British people. But my Mom is French and my Dad is Irish so two very passionate cultures I'm proud to be part of. But the British are a bit squishy on such topics.

[detlef]

This post has been a real learning experience for me. Had no clue about this gesture. I lived in the UK for five years and never saw it so it must be REALLY bad and socially awkward. . .

. . . or people were doing it behind my BACK!!! The bastards!!!

[sjoes006]

The middle finger has mostly prevailed over it for sure. But as our Canadian poster said and I had thought it is basicay the equivalent of calling w woman a cunt.

Not everyone takes it that seriously but if you pull it out whilst already in an altercation it gets a bigger reaction than the finger.

I've also rarely seen it ever used. I only ever knew of it from my Dad.

[detlef]

Interesting. :) I can't say I frequently actually learn shit on GAG but this was one of those times.

You gonna pull off that gesture, you gotta be Steve Fucking McQueen.

2.bp.blogspot.com/.../salute.jpg

@Girl_Scout you knew about this right.

[Girl_Scout]

Course I did. You wanna know the origin?

When the English/Brirish were captured by the French they would cut those two fingers off as we were pretty good archers, thus rendering it impossible to use a long bow. This sign was made to say "fuck you, still got out fingers you French bastards!"

[detlef]

@Girl_Scout Fuck those Frenchies!

2.bp.blogspot.com/.../salute.jpg
This is still occurring now, you say?

[Girl_Scout]

Oh yes, and the French are still jokingly mocked as old enemies.

Cheese eating surrender monkeys!

LOVE that photo. Great shot.

[sjoes006]

@Girl_Scout I've heard it both ways. That the French and British both practiced this. I assume it is because I speak with an American accent that makes it more offensive for these reasons.

My mother is French and my Dad is from Northen Ireland, Ulster or however you prefer it be called. When I had to pick my dual citizenship I chose Irish but I identify as all though it was a tough choice.

I just felt I would never fit in with Britons but not for lack of trying.

Either way, jokes aside Cameron and Hollande need to learn to work together. no judging but England is turning into somewhat of an isolationist. I know people didn't like Blair's policies but long game it isn't a good idea.

[Girl_Scout]

Cameron is a pig fucking Tory who shits all over the poor and wants to turn Britain into a little America by selling it off piece by piece to corporations. We've already lost so many of our Nationalised institutions. Selling off what belonged to the people then selling it back to them in shares. It's disgusting. The French thing is largely taken in jest, a tongue in cheek teasing more than actual bigotry... the origin story is most likely in both countries, makes sense!

[sjoes006]

@Girl_Scout interesting stance on Blair. He's Labor Party yet he shits on the the poor? Ah I have a weak spot for Tony due to The Good Friday Agreement. I feel bad for the U. S. Having led him into the whole Iraq bullshit. It was a difficult call and I really do feel that intelligence information and the whole post 9/11 thing was misgiving at best. I understand though why Britons dislike him I just can't bring myself to share that same view.

Yes Cameron's a fucking pig. His inability to get along with any world leader is just the beginning of my displeasure with him. He needs to fucking go. His whole administration is dirty.

[Girl_Scout]

Sorry, the reference was to Cameron, not Blair.

Yes, Cameron needs to go. He needs to go right now before he does anymore damage. Tony Blair was n a tough situation but he should have stood up for what the country wanted - that is his purposes, not to make these decisions for what HE thinks is best. There's talk of him being tried for war crimes as he withheld rather a lot of key information it seems.

[sjoes006]

@Girl_Scout the UN want try him.

[BruceJender]

5 years?

It's means "piss off" or "fuck you" lol

[Paris13]

I thought this to be the "Peace Sign" of the Times, @sjoes006
However, as long a it Isn't the "Middle Finger," I see No problem.. Everything Has to be so Politically Correct Today in every way.
There are states and even countries who are Chastising a Body for Bringing a Bible Around Town.
Good luck. xx

[sjoes006]

It is as bad or worse as the middle finger in the UK.

But yeah as far as the bible goes I don't like that crap and it is offensive to me. Mainly just because it is a thinly bailed rouse for crazy people to hate and point fingers at others to make themselves feel better. These aren't religious people these are people that want nothing more than to suppress the rights of others at the expense of society.

[Paris13]

Oh, wow, I guess every country has its little thing.
As far as the bible, I may not agree but thank you for being a gentleman, I salute you. xx

[Girl_Scout]

Haha! I prefer it to the American one finger insult, but for some reason it seems to be less offensive. Maybe because the one finger looks menacing... like it's going to be put somewhere...

[mooky06]

Didn't know the two finger thing was "fuck you" one finger does the same thing lol
Nah i wouldn't get it to be honest.

[Red_Arrow]

Well, this most famous Brit is often photographed with that "salute". Made it famous during WWII. Are you trying to tell me he was NOT suggesting victory?
i.telegraph.co.uk/.../...3239MEMORIAL_3171420b.jpg

[sjoes006]

Yes I've seen this picture of Winston Churchill obviously as well. Yes he was using it to mean that (Victory). But it is often done with a different hand and when derogatory you give it in an upward motion. The V starts below your breasts and is drawn upward.

If you mean it for victory you do t form the V until your hand is at the position you like. Just as with giving a peace sign you don't start it with fingers at your hip then raise it.

There's a very clear distinction in intent. Trust me the bouncer wasn't in the fence about whether I was giving him some sort of sign of victory or basically calling him a wanker then elaborating with my fingers to show how I felt about him.

[SomeGuy37]

I'm not so sure of the context!! I think he was saying 'FCK YOU' to the Nazis in that pic!!
Love Winston!! Wish he was my uncle!!

[adamski24]

@SomeGuy37 yes he was say fuck you Adolf

[Girl_Scout]

@adamski24 it means peace turned the other way round... the majority of photos with Churchill are with his palm turned out... like Instagram girls...

[ThatBritishLad]

In the credits for Codename: Kids Next Door, Numbuh 2 does it. That weren't cool.
vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/.../latest

[WhiteSteve]

Never heard of it. Although I chuck the deuces up at people when I'm done with them and can't be bothered arguing anymore. I don't fight much with my girlfriend, but there have been quite a few times when she's gotten hit with the deuces. And she HATES IT, hahaha...
25.media.tumblr.com/...mdyfx6U0MS1rl3v3mo1_400.gif

[Hidden_P]

Not at all.
I grew up with boys. Even my boyfriend does it to me. I don't find it offensive at all. My response is usual "fuck off!"

I'm aware I'm a bit laddish though.

[orphan]

in america we prefer the lone middle finger.

https://cdn.makeagif.com/media/5-14-2015/iZM_a7.gif

[astrOnaut01]

It's a British tradition. Nothing offensive about that

[sjoes006]

Okay well if ever in London go to a pub and use it to test your theory. It won't end well for you.

[astrOnaut01]

Of course it would work! Plus, I'm an immigrant, so what could go wrong?

[LittleSally]

It means 'f u'... or 'up yours'.
Maybe even more powerful than that. It's very offensive...

[Tarvold]

Flip it around. Do you really want to stay in a pub that was so sensitive that a two finger salute results in being kicked out?

[Doffydood]

I'd say it's about as bad as the middle finger.

[sjoes006]

You think the middle finger is worse? People don't get nearly as mad if I use a middle finger.

[Doffydood]

No, I said they're about equal :)

[adamski24]

Yes in the UK it is very offensive to use it.
To us both the two finger salute and middle finger are about the same thing.

[Likes2drive]

From what I understand it's offensive in England to do that, it's like the middle finger here

[reptocarl]

I thought it meant victory

[sjoes006]

Only if the palm is facing outwards. Otherwise it is the same as giving someone the middle finger except Brits seem to hate it more.

[sjoes006]

Well let me take that back about the palm. I've never actually seen it used in that way. You give a two fingered salute in an upward motion if the intent is derogatory.

[reptocarl]

I've never known anything about it

[CrazynKinky]

It's a fuck you

[sjoes006]

Yeah but people seem to dislike it much more than the middle finger is disliked in the U. S.

[CrazynKinky]

So remember how at one point in time people had respect and didn't swear and flip people off like it was normal. It's called being proper. It's like the equivalent of calling someone a cunt in the US

[sjoes006]

Yeah actually I totally agree with the count equivalent. I'm not proud but the night in question was when I was in college and I was jet lagged also having not eaten enough.

My friends explained that because I have an American accent it just makes it worse. Middle finger is better received.

But yeah, it is taken with the same level of hatred as the word count is in the U. S. While cunt in Britsin is little to be bothered about.

[CrazynKinky]

Things happen

[Facepalm]

:O I've been using that. The shame.

[sjoes006]

If they didn't turn against you then they knew you weren't using it in that context.

I used it knowingly and intentionally but that was ten years ago. I've maybe only ever used it once since then and I believe it was state side because a guy was being a real wanker.

[Facepalm]

Whats the point of the gesture if you already have the "middle finger"? doesn't it seem too excessive to have multiple gestures that mean the same thing?

[sjoes006]

It's been around for a long time. The version I choose to believe is that it is a sign given saying at least I have my fingers from back during the middle age. Archers caught by the French or otherwise would have these two fingers cut off in the hand they hold bow strings with.

Every culture has things you don't understand. It is improper to disregard them.

[Girl_Scout]

I think it existed before the USA did.

[SarahsSummer]

Huh? That's the peace sign in America.

[douride2]

I never knew it was an offensive gesture.

[akadatank44]

Huh? Not in America I hope

[BruceTrails]

isn't that the peace sign?

[sjoes006]

Sigh read some other comments for insight.

[BruceTrails]

There are too many different opinions.

[Omar5881]

What's wrong with this? 😕😕

[RandomPerson1324]

Isn't that a peace sign?

[Punkin45]

What is it?

[Anonymous]

I'm thristy now for no apparent reason.

[ShayanMortazavi1]

I've never seen it

[jakeofalltrades]

it is offensive?

[CrazynKinky]

In England it is it's like saying fuck you

[jakeofalltrades]

@CrazynKinky Brits are weird

[CrazynKinky]

I think they're pretty fantastic because theyre weird