According to he definition of feminism, it is all about equality between the sexes. Using that definition of feminism, I have always called myself a feminist. It's a movement that I really believe in. Feminism, as it is to me, is a movement that advocates for women's rights, not only in our own country but in others where inequality is far greater. Feminists also fight for men to have equal rights, with things like child custody. This is what I have consistently told people, but I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle.
Here's the problem. A lot of people seem to think the word means something different. I don't blame them for that. A lot of people do things that don't align with what feminism is, and call themselves feminists. Therefore a lot of people are put off by the word. Therefore many people who's views align with the definition of feminist, have been calling themselves egalitarianists, which basically means the same thing.
If the majority of people think that a word means something different that it's definition, are those people wrong, or is the definition outdated?
I wonder if I'm doing more harm than good by continuing to call myself a feminist. But I'm reluctant to switch, because I feel like every time we allow a good movement to be ruined by people who don't understand what it is, we have to start all over again. I also feel like the egalitarian movement, even when it does gain supporters, will not change things nearly as fast, as people will be very careful not to be seen as aggressive. Many people I know use that title for the sole purpose of calling themselves something other than a feminist.
So should I continue to advocate for a movement that has brought us so far, and educate people on what it actually means, or should I abandon it, and move on to a movement which has not accomplished nearly as much, and I doubt ever will, but which also has much less baggage.
Yes. Let face I think women should have the right to vote they should get payed them same based on experience (. Anyone who just started working should get the same pay as my dad who has been in the industry a very long time. Father do deserve a day ( which 21st-century Femmist want to destroy. Me looking at a chicks ass shouldn't be considered sexual harassment. Me grabbing a girls ass should. A man opera I got a shower door on a women in a unisex bathroom should be sexual harassment but now they want people to feel ok with it, My parents just did the STP (seattle to Portland bike ride). At the end this year they had unisex shower my dad go walk in on by another guy. Now most likely would happen if that was a women. But that's setting up for a massive lawsuit. You guys going to get kicked in the balls and cascade bike that I would have a major lawsuit on their hands. Let's face it the year before there were line for the showers. This year none and no women took a shower after riding 150 miles. Tell me what would causes a women not to take a shower after a 150 mile bike ride? If that doesn't tell you that people are unfortunately with the femmist, transgender ideas I don't know what does.
The purpose of identifying as anything, be it feminist, egalitarian, atheist, or humanitarian is to signal to others what you believe. If that label is ineffective in communicating your beliefs, is it really useful to use it? Why not find a new one? Militant egalitarian perhaps? Do you understand my logic? Or is this more about being associated with certain people?
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It's not about being associated with certain people. It's about the fact that people can accomplish more together. It's harder to gain support for a movement that has nothing to show for its effectiveness.
Ok. I follow. So you want to associate with the title for the "reputation"? It's not about the specific definition, but more about the power? I guess if you proritize power, go for it. Egalitarianism can't match feminism in that regard. I don't believe the feminists I've watched in power follow that definition when acting. I could give examples. Do you want to know more?
Could you give examples please? Because I probably don't think of those people as feminists. Because they don't fit the definition. I think of them as misandrists who don't own a dictionary. But if so many people think that's what it is, then I wonder if that means the dictionary is wrong. And that bothers me because if we allow something good to be ruined, then we're allowing progress to be slowed down. Because what's to prevent the next thing to be ruined as well? Does that make sense? I understand your logic, but it bothers me.
The definition of a movement shouldn't be defined by the people of the movement. I 100% agree. But others will define the moment based on the actions of thr people who claim to be part of it. I'll give an example that concerns me. www.businessinsider.com/.../
i think the words feminism/feminist is abused and overused
equality of rights is now taken to mean sameness, rather than opening up choices for women, feminists today want to constrain choices for women so that we are exactly what the feminists want us to be. While I may not be the same as any man, I don't feel like I have fewer rights or opportunities than any man in the US today. Which makes the traditional definition of feminism less meaningful here than it used to be. However, women's rights across the globe remains a big issue and this is where third wave feminism does a disservice to women across the world. Third wave feminism is an impediment to women, not a help.
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Anonymous
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No, meanings can't change, only some people can corrupt a movement and turn it to something else. The same thing happened to communism.
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That makes sense. Do you think that it's too late to fix it?
We are in same boat mate. I think definition isn't outdated but people are. Many feminist demand female supremacy which sucks. All I want to say is just stick with your beliefs.
Realistically the movement has always been based on a belief that women had an inferior status to men, and that this should be addressed. Historically, and today in some countries, this is undoubtedly true and so there is little distinction between human rights advocates in general and 'feminists'.
It becomes much messier in the developed world. Historically there was opposition to the idea that women -should- have equal rights. That opposition is now rare in the developed world. The debate has now shifted to whether women -do- have rough equality with men (or even an advantage) or whether they are still a disadvantaged class. Clearly there are individual advantages that men and women have relative to one another. Self-described feminists in the west typically believe that things are stacked against women, so improving men's situation is a very low priority and women's a very high one (even at the expense of men). In an academic context, a feminist today is someone who believes patriarchy is a defining element of our culture that must be dismantled.
You cannot change a definition that society has decided to hijack. For example, which definition do you think of when you hear the word 'gay'? (from Merriam-Webster dictionary)
Gay: 1. a: Happy, excited; merry; b: Keenly alive and exuberant: having or inducing high spirits 2. a: Bright, lively; b: Brilliant in color 3. Given to social pleasures; licentious 4. a: Homosexual; b: Of or relating to homosexuals
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It depends on the context. The first one is used a lot in books, but usually I think of the fourth one.
Precisely, keeping in mind also that the homosexual definition wasn't even added until recent years. And if the world decides that the term 'feminism' is more associated with what I tend to call the femi-nazis, then a person associating themselves with 'feminism' in the defined sense in an attempt to take back the meaning would be like a guy trying to take back the original meaning of 'gay' by telling the world he's gay in the sense of happiness and merriment. He'll convince the world he's something, but it won't be that he's happy. Associating with the term 'feminist' will have the same effect.
Then it shouldn't be called feminism but something else, what the name would actually suggest - equalitarism. I am not sure why we call it egalitarianism.
The way i see it, feminism means in it's meaning to balance the rights where women were lacking or at disadvantage. It's actual real world practice is unknown to me other than some internet gender wars and MGTOW focusing on crazy females, who self proclaim to be feminists.
It is best to not identify yourself as anything of political position. Many are quick to jump the gun. There is a reason i do stay out of politics. And it's to avoid political battles and debates. I just mind my own business.
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It's called feminism because it originated when women had far fewer rights, but the goal was always equality.
So that's why things are called what they are. As for identifying as part of a group, I would do it but for the fact that people can accomplish more together.
I've never met a feminist who actually supports equality in it's true sense. As far as I can tell, feminists want all the good parts of what men have without the bad.
A couple of easy examples:
Men get more pay on average because they tend to go into higher pay fields. Women want the pay, but most aren't choosing to go into the fields.
Back in the good old days, the reason all men received voting rights (instead of just the rich) was because they accepted the right of the government to draft them. Feminists were determined to get voting rights without having to be drafted. (And of course, succeeded.)
This isn't to say there are some areas where feminists do have a point and women actually do have it rough, but as far as I can tell, my point still applies to those cases as well.
"Feminism addresses the fact that men are much less likely to get custody of their children, that men have a lot of pressure put on them to be the tough ones, and that men have to register for the draft."
I'm sorry but this statement ^^^ is absolute bullshit. Do you actually believe it? REALLY? This dishonesty is one of the biggest reasons feminism gets zero respect anymore.
Please stop claiming feminism gives a fuck about male issues. It doesn't, and saying so just makes you look ridiculous.
That's what feminism is to me, and that's what it is according to the definition.
I know that there are a lot of people who call themselves feminists who don't care for those things. And I've never thought of them as feminists. Just misandrists who don't own a dictionary.
But I know that a lot of people think that that's what feminism is. My question was whether that means that they are misinformed, or that the dictionary definition is outdated.
I don't doubt that many people who associate themselves with the movement are dishonest about what their intentions are. But I'm not. That's what the movement means to me.
There are exceptions to every rule but feminism has done far, FAR more harm to males than any insignificant examples you'll find to try to prove otherwise.
Seriously, you feminists would be far better off if you just dropped the dishonesty.
the problem is simply that the word doesn't match the defintion. if it is about equality. it would be equalist or something of that nature. by using the title feminist. it gives the appearance of female supremacy which some individuals have turned feminism in to
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It's called feminism because the movement originated back when women had far fewer rights than men. Back then, it was mostly about women's rights, but on the grounds of equality. But I understand that a lot of people are put off by the prefix.
Yes cause originally it was a good thing but now women are saying they deserve more pay then men. So no if you both have the same degrees and same about of years working somewhere then yes same pay but if someone's worked longer and your fresh out of college you don't deserve that money until you have earned it.
The people going out of their way to identify as feminist as pretty different from first and second wave feminists. Nowadays it isn't really about pushing for equal rights because we are pretty much there (in the Western world. Nobody actually gives a damn about oppressed women in third world countries). They are pushing for ridiculous things now, some of it being sexist against men.
All I see on the internet is Feminist -> a person who supports INEQUAL rights in favor of women. (I observe how feminists act) Which is why I absolutely hate most people who call themselves feminists, it raised that definition in my brain that is impossible to reassign to the proper definition of the word. I would highly suggest swapping, the word 'feminist' has earned a bad reputation.
"I wonder if I'm doing more harm than good by continuing to call myself a feminist." Yes, it is. Most women and very few men agree with or align with third-wave feminism. And it is not nor has EVER been about anything for men. You're gonna get mostly shut down by others if you call yourself a feminist. The fringe of this movement are whacky at best. :)
It has a more negative context to it now due to women who have taken it to an extreme. Feminazis like Sarkesian for example who demonize everything, and are hate mongers. But it is just an extreme few who are too outspoken in their hate bringing down an entire movement.
if you identify as a feminist the definition of the word isn't important. You are placing yourself in a group with everyone else who claims to be a feminist (guilty by association). Same rational is why many people who identify as feminist like to call any opposers Nazis (despite the words definition). the words are the same but somehow separate there is feminist the belief and feminist the group member. (similarly one can be a boyscout without being a boy, scout).
I think this is the right time to move from feminism to egalitarianism for those who are still trying to pull the feminist ship to the shore while the radicals are trying their best to sink it
Common sense? What men's issues did first wave feminism bring up? How about second wave feminism? It has always been an advocacy for women's rights, and that's perfectly fine.
But let's stop calling it what it isn't to make it sound more palatable, because lies is what everyone grew to hate about third wave feminism.
Feminism addresses the fact that men are much less likely to get custody of their children, that men have a lot of pressure put on them to be the tough ones, and that men have to register for the draft. I understand that meaning may have changed for a lot of people, because of what some people have done in the name of a movement that they don't understand. But if you're going to tell me that it never was about equality, then I'm going to have to disagree.
Wow, so equal. How about fighting for women receiving as long prison sentences as men? How about fighting for more women being employed in manual labor sectors and low income/high risk jobs? How about fighting for the fact that there are practically NO shelters for men affected by domestic violence despite men represent 40% of domestic violence victims? How about fighting against the fact that punishment for rape in case of male perpetrators in some US states is against the constitution and human rights? How about fighting against the fact that male victims of rape are almost always ordered to pay child support to their rapists should they get pregnant, even if they were underage when raped?
Equality is about ALL the things, not just the nice things you want. That is why feminism will never be egalitarianism. Because it really isn't about equality, it is about making someone's life better.
I gave examples. I never said that that was all. The things that you said are other examples of things that feminism addresses. Those things just don't get as much media attention because people aren't as likely to react to it, because it is very much the "cool" thing at the moment to demonized feminism. I just didn't feel like writing an essay in the comment section.
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