Why do you think people treat jewish people like they are a race?

[Anonymous]

Its like, I don’t understand how someone who doesn’t practice judaism can be considered jewish. I understand that within Judaism there’s this belief that anyone a jewish woman gives birth to is automatically a jew, but that’s just their holy book, it doesn’t matter outside of that particular context.

Like I understand that jews have been persecuted and like to remain commonly insular, you could argue that Israeli is an ethnicity like Russian is, but Russian also is not a race and even if they are an ethnicity would they not be the ethnicity of Israeli and not Jewish?

Can we consider Christians and Hindus and Muslims a race as well or is this like just a jewish thing?

I mean maybe I sound insensitive here, but it sounds to me like the kind of otherizing that allowed Hitler to pit his brand of white people against the religion he thought was the most pernicious. I would be interested to see who started referring to jews as a race first, outside of some jews who took a literalistic interpretation of their book.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

They are, because you can tell a Jew by their facial features. Okay, maybe Israeli is more of a race then Judaism, but all these people of Israeli descent are Jewish. That's where it gets confusing, because they kind of crossover. Even my Jewish professor said, "Jewish is a religion, not a race." Then later said, "Jews have specific surnames and features."

It's weird, because it's kind of both. I guess the proper term for the race is "Semite". But Lebanese people are also Semites and they look different from Jews. But you see even Yemeni Jews and Polish Jews all have the same facial feature.
It just gets confusing because basically everyone with Israeli ancestry is Jewish.

[Asker]

I have no problem with the idea that they are an ethnicity given the fact that so much of the time their genes spent on earth was spent developing in Israel, I just kind of don’t see the equivocation of race with religion as consistent with how we handle other religions.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

Well, racially they're White.

[Asker]

Yeah that’s what I’m saying.

[Asker]

They just seem like white people who lived outside of Europe to me.

[tartaarsaus]

Meh, many millions of Jews are nothing white. Those are the Mizrahim, Sephardim or those in e. g. Ethiopia.

We Jews tend to be rather diverse

[ZeussLightningBolt]

Yeah.
I don't know the exact terminology, but actually there are only 3 racial groups according to anthropologists

Negroid (which is all black people)
Asian (which is east Asian, southeast Asian, Pacific Islands and Central Asian people)
And Indo-European (which is white Europeans, South Asians, Middle Eastern, North African and Latin American people)

[tartaarsaus]

So naming it white as a collective term is false.

[Asker]

You know, that’s fair, but I think many jews are more white than anything regardless and it’s still more accurate than referring the Judaism as a race.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

Well that would make black Jews mixed race, wouldn't it?

[tartaarsaus]

Because literally according to Judaism itself you're Jewish if you are born Jewish whether you believe in Judaism or not.

It's the general consensus in even the most liberal parts of Judaism. You're Jewish if you're born Jewish.

And Israeli is indeed an ethnicity and not race. Israeli implies you are an Israeli citizen, which defines the LEGAL relationship between you and the state of Israel. That's not a religious, ethnical or cultural thing.

I think it helped that Jews from the beginning were sort of special, sticked to their own and had their own neighborhoor (out of free will or not) so got effectively separated.

[Asker]

So like, my problem is that I don’t care what peoples books say. They don’t matter to me, there’s no book that carries more validity in its declarations. I need a better reason than ‘their book told them to believe that and they got used to it’.

[tartaarsaus]

That's all you can get. Basically all tenets of Judaism accept that as a defining one being Jewish.

And Judaism itself is the deciding factor on whom is Jewish. So that's the only thing that realistically matters.

[tartaarsaus]

So yeah, you don't need to care. But then you're immediately separating any reasoning for why someone is Jewish based on the actual rules from any potential options

[Asker]

So can I just write a book that says I’m my own race and people will just kind of take that at face value because those are the tenets of what means to be my new race?

[tartaarsaus]

Making Judaism equivalent to race is a whole different thing since race is a biological thing. There is no genetic requirement to being Jewish.

Hence, the premise of Judaism being a race is bollocks. The premise of needing to be born Jewish to be Jewish is in fact true. But that does not imply its a race. It's ethnical.

So nope, you're wrong

[Asker]

I just kind of have a problem accepting that on a personal level. Like I’m fine with them believing it, they should be free to believe as they want, but it seems like if you’re not following Judaism it does not behoove you to observe its standards.

[tartaarsaus]

You don't NEED to see yourself as Jewish, you don't need to feel anything for Judaism. That's relatively common. But the Jewish community would still see you as Jewish

[Asker]

And that’s fine, I mean if they believe that book they are entitled to believe that. I just don’t understand why people outside of the Jewish community would still call them jewish even if they have no other connection to it than birth.

[tartaarsaus]

Where I live it's not actively tracked about which religion people have but weirdly in the USA they do have their specific thing for Jews. Then again, the USA is much more at racial things

[Asker]

That’s true. The United States is markedly more racist than other places in Europe.

[Asker]

Don’t know if we’ll ever pull that stick out of our ass.

[jacquesvol]

'Jews' are a religion. Semitic people have been identified with them: en.wikipedia.org/.../Semitic_people
But Jews aren't the only Semites in the world.

[Soteris]

In Judaism in particular heritage is extremely important to the point where you can indeed see them as a pseudo race. Also its not like Jews as a race is any more false than whites or blacks. Races as you know them are not supported by scientists.

[Asker]

I suppose that’s true but I don’t know of other instances where race and religion become intertwined.

[Soteris]

can't think of another religion that focuses on lineage the same way either. That said people do tend to lump anyone with a brownish skin and a wrapped head dress in as "Muslim" and considers them all to be somehow a race.. Dont ask me how.

[Asker]

I mean I don’t do that. I think there are people out there who dislike brown people and use ‘muslim’ as a proxy for ‘middle eastern’ but in my opinion that does not make the two terms twain.

[Soteris]

For them it arguably does make it the same thing.

[Asker]

I just don't like the idea of allowing legitimate racists to dictate the terms of the discourse.

[Soteris]

Well there are a lot of them and language is determined by its common usage so..

[tertater]

I think it's because Jews stuck to a certain... group of people for so long that even bodily characteristics are so common among jews to a point they are an ethnicity/race. I dont personally consider jewish people as a race.

[Asker]

I understand that. Like we’ve all seen people joke about the ‘jew fro’ and I think there are definitely some physical characteristics common in Israeli women that that make them look gorgeous, I just have misgivings that that makes someone a race. Swedes have more instances of blonde hair than Italians, they are still considered white though.

[esotericstory]

To Judaism the holy books are the highest authority, even higher than science, the Jews have their own ethno-sphere within their religion, there are strong ethnic and racial roots in Judaism, its a race for the most part.

[Asker]

I personally disregard all the books, so its difficult to agree with this.

[esotericstory]

Its kind of subjective though, there are no objective hard facts when it comes to the Jewish people as far as I know.

[Asker]

I subjectively reject the contents of all the books, and that makes me feel like there’s no rational basis for living real life under the auspices set for people under them.

[Asker]

I think the Jews are perfectly entitled to think that way, I don’t love them any less for it, I just don’t understand why non-jews observe those parts of the Torah.

[0112358]

It’s both an ethnicity and a religion.

Hitler was after the ethnicity.

[Asker]

Wouldn’t the ethnicity be Israeli though? Judaism being the religion?

[0112358]

No. Israel is a region and fairly recent country. So it’s a nationality not an ethnicity

[Asker]

So would you say French, German, and Russian are not ethnicities?

[0112358]

They are. As is, say, Flemish. Or tartar.

[Asker]

So why are they different? I understand that Israel as it exists now is recent but as far as I’m aware it used to exist long ago.

[0112358]

There was an ancient kingdom of Israel but it’s smaller and not all Jews descend from those people. Basically it was one of several kingdoms of Jews. Jerusalem for instance was not in Israel it was in the kingdom of Judah.

So modern Jews who don’t live is Israel may not have any ancestors from ancient kingdom of Israel.

[name_is_eric]

They are an ethnic group, not sure if you can count them as a separate race.
But they originate from the Middle East.

I don't have any Jewish ancestry, Ashkenazi, Hasidic, Haredi.
I'm a goy, a gentile.

[Cookie8888]

Because they have historically been one, and define themselves as one.

[Asker]

So just because they sad so? Lol I don't know if that’s a good reason.

[Cookie8888]

It's a good reason enough for the majority of humans. This is one of those rare cases where conformity is preferred.

[Asker]

Aaaah..
I really don’t have anything but love for the jews in my life but I kind of call bullshit on anything that comes out of someones holy book applying to how I live.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Agree. Never made any logical sense to. Keep in mind the modern "Jews" nor their religion is the same religion of the ancient Hebrews.

[_乃尺OЩ刀_TITI]

It's an ethnoreligious group

[Asker]

Can you please give me some other examples of ethnoreligious groups?

[_乃尺OЩ刀_TITI]

Sikhs

[Asker]

Would you consider the Amish to be ethnoreligious?

[TheSpartan]

They consider themselves a distinct race.