Do you love America?

[Frank_Woods]

No, I hate America

Yes, I love America

Updates

+1 y

Anti-Americans, show yourselves. Have the balls to post a comment instead of disliking the comments of my patriotic commenters.

[ChrisMaster69]

I really used to, I was over there a lot while in Air Force.

we did various exercises with the USAF, USN, USMC

been on lots of Ops with them.

However over last few years, the once proud nation has pretty much imploded.

I was standing in a for a manager in our Atlanta office last month, and I literally had to threaten two guys who had an argument about politics on a conference call.

I passed details on to their Director and told him to sort his people out, as if it had been mine, I would be needing two new managers.

it’s like over the last few years every extremist from political, ethnic, and sexuality spectrums has been given as much air time as possible.

it is hugely polarised in all areas not just politics, although politics is brought in to every single discussion.

Don’t get me wrong I love Americans, I have some great mates (both genders and various sexualities) over there. I chat to one (Ex US Marine) pretty much daily and we have a really good video call with beers n food lol, also another girl it’s sort of weekly and we chat about various shit, from clothes to vacations.

The one thing I have found myself consciously doing though, is avoiding anything that involves politics, even remotely. As nearly no matter who I am chatting to they will invariably blame a political side.

We have a works trip sorted to go there in a few months, for the first time ever I am doing a full safety brief on the US, including politics, BLM, riots (actions to be taken) including what should be avoided in conversations, as you just do not know what is going to trigger some people. . It is actually a page longer than my brief for trips to the Ukraine.

again, as people, majority are brilliant snd I could not ask for better friends, but the rest is severely fucked up.

I have had option (recently) to relocate out there and partially considered it, however the above it the big negative. Previously I would have jumped at chance and was out at Creech (no Vegas) for a good while and would have lived out there if had not decided to leave Air Force,

[Julielamar2]

Oh the English mother and mitigate on her American child 🤣

[ChrisMaster69]

@Julielamar2 lol, well to be fair it’s not like I’ve not been over there a lot in last 20 years.

[Julielamar2]

Haha yes, the English settlers who went to America built a good country lol

[ChrisMaster69]

@Julielamar2 Louisiana turned out well then?

[Julielamar2]

For the English it for sure. To say that Louisiana is called that in relation to my king🤣

[exitseven]

Yes, I think we can make it great again.

[exitseven]

Thanks for the MHO

[Frank_Woods]

No problem. Let's make America great again, again.

[RedFever]

"Anti-Americans, show yourselves. Have the balls to post a comment instead of disliking the comments of my patriotic commenters."
Okay, I'm one, and here are just some of the reasons why -
1. You people dare to make a big deal over "election meddling by Russia", in spite of there being NO evidence whatsoever it occurred, and in spite of the FACT that YOUR country meddled in the RUSSIAN elections of 1996! In fact, since 1945, you've (the CIA that is) meddled in the elections of virtually every nation on earth at least once! You even made a film about it ('Spinning Boris').
https://thefreethoughtproject.com/us-rigging-russia-election-cia-struggles/
2. "God bless America" - Excuse me while I throw up. You aren't special (well, maybe "special" mentally), and you're not "indispensable". Grow the hell up.
3. You have more prisoners, per capita, than even China and Saudi Arabia.
4. Mass shootings on a daily basis are taken for granted now, and all you (well, Republicans anyway) can say is that "guns don't kill people, people kill people". Well, and this may come as a shock to you, but GUNS MAKE IT MUCH EASIER TO KILL MORE PEOPLE IN A SHORTER AMOUNT OF TIME! Guns kill people far more efficiently than anything else (like a knife) ever would. Someone with a knife can potentially be disarmed by someone without a knife, and potential victims can run like mad to get away from the nutcase who is causing the problem. Can't do those things with someone who has a gun.
5. Christian religious fundamentalism. Need I say more? The vast and overwhelming majority of flat-earthers reside in the U. S. Creationists as well.
6. Political extremism, both on the left and right of the spectrum. Your country gave the world incels, MGTOW, feminists, QAnon freaks, Ana Kasparian, Donald Trump, the New Age movement, political correctness, autism "acceptance", 'Karens', the concept of safe spaces for losers who can't handle reality... and I could go on and on and on and on...
I can think of so many other reasons, but I'll just leave it at six.

[Frank_Woods]

1. The democrats concocted this Russian interference conspiracy theory when they didn't get their establishment candidate Hillary Clinton elected.
2. God Bless America and God bless all those who believe in freedom as well.
3. Rather have criminals detained than on the streets, albeit I will agree that some jail sentences are wrong such as nonviolent drug offenders.
4. The right to bear arms is necessary. People don't seem to realize the purpose. The purpose of the second amendment is to provide individuals with a deterrent for safety. Neighbors with guns can protect each other. If an armed criminal enters a neigborhood armed to the teeth, they will think twice before causing trouble. Also, notice that gun violence occurs in democratically run cities where strict gun control is practiced. The criminals have guns through illegal means, and you as a law abiding citizen have nothing to defend yourself with.

[Frank_Woods]

5. That is a gross generalization and probably not true. I am not religious. And besides people have the right to expression in America regardless of how stupid they are. This is still much better than control and censorship.
6. I will agree with everything there, but not about Donald Trump. Donald Trump was a bombastic confident person, but no one seems to do their due diligence when researching what he did as president or his policies as president. I will admit he made a few foreign policy blunders (such as bombing foreign cities, but Obama and Bush also did) and said some outrageous things a lot. Among the good things he did as president: took action to strengthen border security, sought for energy independence, lessened American interference from foreign affairs, started no new wars, took out ISIS, got America out of unfavorable deals like the Iran Nuclear Deal and Paris Climate Accords, and preemptively restricted travel to and from China before covid arrived here.

This probably won't change your mind, but here you go. I don't care what you or anybody else thinks. America is defined by our foundation based in freedom given to us by God and outlined in the Bill of Rights/Constitution.

[RedFever]

You're just trying to justify your irrational beliefs now. And deflect blame, as well. It was those "nasty Democrats" again. You don't seem to realise that election meddling by YOUR country, was something that it indulged in for decades, regardless of which of the major parties was in power. Reagan did it in Central America. Ford in my country, Australia. Bush during the early 2000's with Iraq (remember 'weapons of mass distruction'?).
The purpose of the Second Amendment was to have an armed citizenry in order to deter the British during the late 18th/early 19th centuries. It has nothing to do with "individual safety". That is what the POLICE are for. But of course, the police in your country just like to shoot everyone now anyway, so they won't protect anyone anymore.

[RedFever]

"The criminals have guns through illegal means", you say.
Well, as I understand it, every single school mass murderer who went bezerk had access to guns that were LEGALLY owned by someone they knew and trusted, or they were gun-owners themselves. They weren't criminals at all until the time they committed their atrocity.

[Frank_Woods]

Yeah, of course election meddling and regime change wars are bad, but these politicians are not the sole representation of America. You are focusing what the government has done to represent America, rather than focusing on America being its foundation on classically liberal ideas - freedom.

Also, you have no idea what the second amendment is so here is the exact text. Read it and think about it: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

[Frank_Woods]

Even if criminals have guns obtained legally, having a deterrent of armed law-abiding citizens is necessary to counter the criminals with guns.

[RedFever]

So the politicians don't actually represent the average American. You've just basically said that the US isn't a democracy. I guess that's something we can both agree on, and it certainly explains a lot.

[Frank_Woods]

Yes, this is a problem. Our representation is bad. Both democrats and republicans alike are not in tune with the sane voters. They are career politicians who get lobbied by corporate interests. One thing I have been advocating for is term limits. Higher turnover can give us a chance to find better politicians, and at the very least we will get rid of career politicking. And actually yeah, America is not a democracy, because as the founding fathers found out, democracy leads to mob rule and not necessary fair rule. Our republic is not perfect, but it is balanced well enough to prevent outright economic and political collapse.

[Frank_Woods]

And again, our country will remain the world's greatest bastion of freedom so long as we continue to uphold the ideas of classical liberalism from the Constitution.

[MCheetah]

Every point you made was either wrong or a strawman. You're looking at SJW's and trying to imply that's how America in general is.

Meanwhile you represent Australia, which like Europe, have politicans that will allow non-white criminals to rape and murder because they don't want to appear "racist." You have politicans that are way more woke than the US and rapid inflation that Aussies constantly complain about, and you're trying to give us shit? If we wanted to play that game, we could find far more faults in Australia than we could in the US. We don't have people constantly trying to enter Australia illegally for a reason; no one wants to live there. It's like a worse, more expensive version of Canada.

Frank Woods already defended the US before me. All I'm asking for is, if anyone is going to dump on the US, then they need to name me one country that is better than it. And Australia sure as shit ain't it. Their government mistreats their people even worse than the US, although not as bad as the UK right now.

[MCheetah]

The only potential countries I could see anyone even trying to claim are better than the US is Canada before 2017, The Netherlands, and Denmark. Australia has a better middle class than the US right now, but a government that's gotten even worse than pre-2020 America and about as equal as Biden-administration America.

[RedFever]

@MCheetah So SJW's were responsible for rigging the Russian elections in favour of Boris Yeltsin were they?

[MCheetah]

This is also random, but given how detailed your comment is, along with your avatar, I highly doubt you're a female. Women don't write this detailed and present information like this. Women are more emotionally driven 99% of the time.

That, along with your overly sexual avatar (which would imply you're slutty; sexual women especially aren't this "academic" in presenting details).

I deduce you're either a regular male catfishing as a woman, or a transwoman. PLEASE don't try to say all that politcal crap you said if you've been a tranny this whole time. That's my strong hypothesis.

[MCheetah]

@redfever
I don't know what you're referring to in that regard in rigging elections and if I wasn't on a phone, I'd look more into it.

You can say the American government has done since bad things; I won't argue with you on that. But your argument is that all of America is bad and a horrible country, including its people it seems. I said, name me a country that's better than the US (under normal circumstances without Biden). I gave the only three hypothetical countries that could apply, even though I don't agree with them. I could at least see the argument in someone saying Canada, the Netherlands, and Denmark (good economy, happiness index, etc; however no real military, no way to defend themselves, heavily reliant on other countries, woke government, etc). Australia isn't one of those countries.

In short, for all our problems, America still is nowhere near as bad as Australia. The real problems we have, that is, not the strawmen and exaggerations you said.

I'd say things much better than this if I wasn't on a phone right now. Texting like this is a pain in the ass.

[RedFever]

@MCheetah "But your argument is that all of America is bad and a horrible country..."
No, not at all. The people I do not know, but I am familiar with the kind of dysfunctional system you have over there, and the criminal psychopaths who run it.
The question was, "Do you love America?", and of course I don't because, among other reasons, I'm not American. The asker of the question wanted those of us who don't like the country to "show yourselves", and so I did, and I gave him a list of reasons why.

[MCheetah]

@redfever
So is your problem with the government (which we have very little control over; it's an oligarchy, just like the rest of the world), or the entire country itself?

All the SJW shit comes from corporations, who are the real government, in order to weaken and control society (feminists and soy boys being the mentally weakest, most idiotic, and easiest to control people around). Only like 5-10% of the population are on the extreme end of politics.

If you dislike the American government and politics in general, that's one thing. But your comment implies most of the people are like this, which is inaccurate to flat out wrong. And then you argue the second amendment, which ultimately is the best stand against corrupt governments. And if you think they can't stop "tanks and jets" like Joe Biden, then you don't know what Guerilla warfare is. (Especially considering how long the US was fighting against the Taliban, who were living in caves.) People who criticize gun control are the least likely ones to ever have to fight for anything or save any lives. When the shit hits the fan, what are they going to do? "Talk it out?"

Anyway, the point is, American politics and American people are two different things. One might say it's a consequence of too much freedom. Too many opinions comes with that.

[Frank_Woods]

@MCheetah I don't think she is gonna change her mind, man. I countered all of her points and recountered all of her rebuttals. She's just going to continue making arguments based on flawed premises. Thanks for taking a stand for America though. I know it's hard to do with Sleepy Joe Biden around, but you rightly pointed out that our government and our nation are not the same thing. America is defined by freedom, and we'll never stop fighting for the Constitution, for classical liberalism, and for freedom!

[MCheetah]

@Frank_Woods
I agree. And like I said, I seriously doubt that's a woman. Women don't talk like this. Even intelligent ones, like Mia-Wallace. Smart women argue based more on emotion and "cause and effect." This person is arguing in an aggressive manner, based on factual "evidence" (at least, it's "evidence" according to them). Which almost entirely an exclusively male trait. RedFever is either a guy pretending to be female or trans, especially with the slutty avatar picture up there.

[comekitty]

Absolutely
❤🇺🇸❤🇺🇸❤

[MCheetah]

I love my country. I just hate the people running it. I'd be happier if all the politicians in Washington were abducted by aliens and left stranded on Mars, never to bother us again. Besides its politics (this includes education and healthcare mismanagement as well), America is the great country on the planet. This DOESN'T mean it's perfect, though. Far from it. We're just better than say, the UK, or China, which all the anti-American Americans can gladly go to. I'm not in the US right now, but one day, I hope to return.

Every anti-American American never makes good on their promise to just go to Mexico, though.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Hating politicians and the government is the most American thing you can do.

[RedFever]

@hellionthesagereborn Most people in most parts of the world hate their politicians and government, so no, it isn't.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@RedFever No they don't. If you hated and mistrusted your governments and politicians then you wouldn't demand that they have greater power over you. Only in the US do we have that mistrust of government as a central tennant to our governmental system (which then influenced the rest of the world). That is what our constitution is, a list of things government has no power over and cannot do as well as systems in place to ensure that the government cannot sieze to much power. Its actually integral to our system.

Meanwhile in australia the government decides to act and the australian people go along with it, they demand that the government have more power over them as do most european nations. So clearly you cannot mistrust or hate your government if your demanding that they have more power over you, that is the exact opposite of hate and mistrust.

[captain_voidwalker]

This is a complex answer for me. I do love America's founding principles. I love freedom of speech and the right to keep and bear arms and all the other wonderful freedoms safeguarded by the constitution.

But I also see the way our government is now. Slowly drifting ever closer to the authoritarian model of the CCP in China.
Stifling free speech by proxy using
Big tech companies. Using cancel culture to enforce thier own version of a social credit score. Mandating shutdowns on small businesses to "fight covid" an illness that's little more than the seasonal flu. All the while thier big business buddies at Amazon and Walmart can remain open.

Do I love America as it is today well that answer is a decisive no. But then again is America realy America anymore.

[Frank_Woods]

Loving America is not loving the politicians. It sounds like you love America in the way I'm asking. God bless. 🙏

[hellionthesagereborn]

Well that is complicated. I love my country, I love the spirit of america, but I hate the fake americans that are constantly trying to destroy it, I hate my corrupt government (most politicians are not americans. They may have been born here, they may live here, they may die here, but they are not fucking American), and I hate the weak americans who stand by and do nothing as these monsters destroy the greatest, freeist, and most benevolent nation to ever exist.

[Dragonpurple]

I used to, but things were going downhill for such a long time... then Trump came along and things started getting so much better. Now things are getting worse again, high inflation, high gas prices, massive illegal immigration.

We get what we voted for, and people voted for high gas prices, massive inflation and millions more of illegal immigrants. There is other issues to, but we'll just leave it at that.

I still have hope things will get better, but with the social credit score taking root (just like China has) not sure this could be called the same country I love.

[Julielamar2]

There could be more balance in your response options, right?


Well, first of all, I am not an American and I never have the opportunity to visit it.


But I'm sure it's a great and amazing country. They have brought so many great things to the world, and almost everyone uses their technology, so thank you for that, America.


If I start talking about politics and history then I start to become anti Americans 🤣

[hellionthesagereborn]

Historically the US was a great nation, better then any other if people where to be honest (bad things happened in all nations, we had far greater good then evil but no one wants to talk about that (like being the first nation to oppose slavery and actively try to get rid of it, the only nation to fight a war to end it etc.).

If we talk politics, we where a great nation up until probably the fifties where our governments paranoia caused them to do a lot of stupid things because they where terrified of stalin and the USSR (with good reason, they murdered 100 million plus people, they where worse then the NAZI's even though no one seems to want to talk about that), which made them make poor decisions that screwed over budding nations that could have been allies but now hate us as a result.

Then it got worse when we got the petro dollar (all oil from Saudi Arabia must be bought in US dollars) because that meant we needed to make sure oil kept flowing through out the world to ensure our currency didn't collapse resulting in all of the middle east bullshit (some of it was legitimate but most isn't) along with several other wars.

Though if americans would stop being intellectually lazy and do their research, I think most of them would be adamantly against the petro dollar and all the bad things it caused (but unfortunately our media and our government lie about the actual motives of things and people are to lazy to do the research to find out the truth).

[RedFever]

@hellionthesagereborn Oh, now it's "100 million PLUS" is it? Where is the actual source for this myth? Do you realise that if 100 million people in the USSR had been "murdered", there would have been a noticable and steep decline in the population of that nation, and in all likelihood it would have fallen apart long before it actually did in 1991?
By the way, the only people who ever say anything like, "They were worse than the Nazis" are closet Nazis who are too afraid to come out into the open. The USSR was NOT worse than Nazi Germany, and anyone who believes that knows next to nothing about 20th century European history.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@RedFever Their was. They didn't murder all of them, most starved to death because they killed the people who where farming, gave the land to people who didn't know how to use the land properly, and then when they saw that their policy was failing miserablly they did nothing. Now to be fair stalin and USSR themselves did not kill 100 million people but communism did (i. e. Lenin, Stalin, Mao etc. I believe Mao killed the most and Stalin was second).

I know a good amount of history as I do study it (I don't specialize in any particular region), and what I said is considered to be a historical fact. www.wsj.com/.../100-years-of-communismand-100-million-dead-1510011810
en.wikipedia.org/.../Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes
eskify.com/.../

So I take it your pro communism/socialism?

[RedFever]

@hellionthesagereborn Okay, I had a quick look at the first of your sources (David Satter, Wall Street Journal) and to read the whole article I have to subscribe. However, all he does within that article (the section that I can actually read without subscribing, that is) is repeat the claim, but in an abstract way, when he says that, "They set in motion a chain of events that would kill millions and inflict a near-fatal wound on Western civilization."
Like you, he doesn't provide a source for the claim. According to your beloved Wikipedia, he is "a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute". What is the Hudson Institute?
"The Hudson Institute is a politically conservative[8] American think tank based in Washington, D. C. It was founded in 1961[1] in Croton-on-Hudson, New York, by futurist, military strategist, and systems theorist Herman Kahn and his colleagues at the RAND Corporation."
Wow, I never would have guessed!

[RedFever]

@hellionthesagereborn By the way, no, I'm not a communist, but I do believe in actually telling the truth. "Communism killed in the USSR 100 million people", is not the truth.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@RedFever So he has to be wrong because you don't agree with him, that is your argument? Also not sure why you think its "my precious wikipedia" as I don't particularly like wikipedia because they are very left leaning (having censored conservatives on multiple occasions and only allowing left leaning "fact checkers" alter conservative posts), but I figured it was a quick and easy way of proving the point. I can provide you plenty of information, your just never going to accept it because your on the left, you do support socialism (clearly, based upon your clear hatred and anger at suggesting they did anything wrong (as again, this is pretty much a given fact)).

I mean again, that is an idiotically stupid argument, you know that right? To say "that doesn't count because he believes differently then me" is not just circular logic, its evidence of YOU being biased more then THEM being biased. That is not a good argument. I didn't want to do a lot of digging because I know you will never ever accept any argument or evidence that contradicts your world view because statistically when you present some one with evidence proving they are wrong, they paradoxically become more certain they are right (as you have just illustrated). But you want more evidence? You want me to waste my time with something we both know will have zero impact because you have already decided that you are absolutely correct and can never be wrong (despite having done no research on this topic at all obviously)? Okay.
Here is a stanford historian that you can claim is bias so his statements don't count:
news.stanford.edu/.../
here are other sources:
www.ibtimes.com/how-many-people-did-joseph-stalin-kill-1111789
sovietinfo.tripod.com/WCR-German_Soviet.pdf
https://sovietinfo.tripod.com/

[hellionthesagereborn]

@RedFever No, I fully admitted that they didn't kill 100 million, that it was communism that killed that many, about half that number was Stalin (I believe its an estimated 46 million though don't quote me on that), the other half was Mao. So that wasn't a lie it was a typo which I rectified as soon as I realized I made it.

[OnTheLevel]

It's unfortunate that a very vocal minority have sullied the reputation of my nation. Just as unfortunate, many of those in political power are there to enrich themselves rather than serve those they represent. I wish those from other countries could meet real Americans and get a true representation of the nation I love.

[Jersey2]

Did you event notice those that do speak badly of the US are themselves losers for the most part? I have.

[andreasderjuengere]

As a political entity I DON'T (and can't) love the U. S.
Also the ''American way of life'' and the ideals and goals promoted aren't to my liking at all.
Which does not mean that I ''hate'' it.
I just try to keep anything ''American'' on a safe distance from me.
But as this culture is very intrusive towards others, I frequently need to 'secure my borders' :)
I could have loved the U. S. some 150 years ago, though.

[BuffHeracross]

I don't hate America. I don't love it either. I do like Americans in general, but obviously there are plenty of bad apples (as in any country). America and Americans in general have a very different take on politics and life in general than I do though.

[DeeDeeDeVour]

I <3 the US of A!

[molonski2]

C... Neither love nor hate , nor do I believe that false patriotism and flag waving is of any benefit , nor should it ever be black/white , that is utterly crazy. A step back , a thought about the positives , and the negatives.
Life is ALWAYS , many shades of grey.

[Wise4myage]

I love my country, just not the party currently in charge.

[RedFever]

Most people who were eligible to vote, and who bothered to turn up to cast their vote, chose that party though.

[Wise4myage]

@RedFever No kidding.

[RedFever]

Well, if you hate the ruling party so much and it is causing so much distress, there is always the option to leave the US and maybe return after they've been kicked out. Isn't that what many Hollywood "celebrities" promised to do if Trump were elected (and then ended up not doing it)?

[Wise4myage]

@RedFever It’s not causing me any distress.

[Deathraider]

Neither. I stay in America because it’s my home. I was born here. But I don’t like how it is currently politically, nor do I like how patriotism is overly promoted. I don’t think America is number 1, in fact we still have a ways to go. But I could only hope for that to change.

[more_than_a_guy]

First of, it's USA, America is a continent. Second, depends, I met nice people from there, and there is a good nature. Also it's a powerful nation. But the government and education are flawed in my opinion, and there is a big place for radical right and left.

[Frank_Woods]

Fact check: America is not a continent. North America and South America are continents. The United States of America is commonly referred to as America.

[more_than_a_guy]

Most people from outside the USA refer the combination of those two continents as America

[more_than_a_guy]

We are both right, but for talking in international website, it's best to refer as the USA
dictionary.cambridge.org/.../america

[iammaria]

Oh man americans are so dumb 💀

[IAMNathanael]

Its the country I've lived in most my life so yeah. I hardly know where or how I'd be if I lived anywhere else.

[Jouth]

I love America. This is my country. But I hate what is happening to this country. It's becoming a mess.

[Soremain]

Never been there but I'd love to go. I've spend a lot of time exploring America via google maps.

[worldscolide]

I absolutely love it. To those 35% that said they hate it, leave, we don't need your kind here.

[I_want_a_moustache]

I like it but I probably won’t stay here when I’m older.

[Surely]

If you hate it so much. Then go somewhere better! Didn’t let anyone or the handouts hold you back.

[Darkwalk88]

It's a dump... shootings every week and most people are way too political

[Jersey2]

Only in a few areas of any city for the most part. I never hear gunshots here and it is peaceful.