Are we witnessing a new cold war between the United States and China?

[Julielamar2]

[nightdrot]

Paradoxically, the answer is "no." That is if the nature of the Cold War is properly defined, i. e, an ideological contest pitting one philosophical system against another in the context of an international competition. By contrast, what the United States and China are engaged in is more typical of the diplomatic and economic rivalries that inevitably arise between great states as they jockey for position within the global balance of power.

That, by the way, does not make the rivalry between the United States and China any less dangerous. Indeed, arguably the most destructive war (certainly in moral terms) in human history - the one that shattered the West and from which it has not fully recovered - was World War I. This was a war between more or less like minded states pursuing their strategic, economic and diplomatic interests, but with no overriding goal to re-order societies and cultures according to some philosophic vision.

By contrast, the wars of the French Revolution, the Napoleonic Wars, the Second World War and the Cold War were ideological contests. Contests in which one state or combination of states sought not only to secure its place in the global balance of power, but to reorder society according to a different philosophical vision. Thus, Fascism and National Socialism in World War II. Thus Communism in the Cold War.

Although China and the USA do not fully share a cultural and philosophical vision, China is not a Marxist state - or to be more specific, as one wag has put it, China is less concerned with Marx in theory than Lenin in practice. It does not seek to impose its social and economic system - indeed in terms of the latter, it has more or less adopted the American model. Rather it seeks the military and economic advantages that will leave it preeminent and thus secure in an unstable world.

To be sure, certain things, many unpleasant, would follow for the West were China to become the preeminent global power and as the 1914 - 1918 conflict amply demonstrates, great power rivalries and the competitive search for national security do not automatically conduce to peace, stability and prosperity. However, while dangerous, if the Cold War is understood for its nature, then what the USA and China face at this point in time cannot be accurately described as a "cold war."

That "cold war" being a specific conflict of a given nature. The paradox being that to treat USA-China competition as an ideological contest would make war more likely, not less. The nature of ideological conflict being black or white/either or. While the great power rivalries, though they can never be fully eliminated - as peace is not the spontaneous condition of man - can be managed in the weighing and balancing of the splittable differences that are characteristic of international relations absent ideological motives.

In short, if history is repeating itself, it is history pre-1914, not the Cold War. Which is not exactly comforting.

[Julielamar2]

Excellent answer, but I find it hard to imagine a confrontation between the USA and China because of the atomic bomb.

Can we imagine a conflict without the use of the atomic bomb?

or can we imagine that the Usa and China form a kind of alliance and decide to dominate the world together?

[nightdrot]

On the latter, almost certainly not. It is axiomatic of international relations that they are a zero sum game. At an irreducible level, the enhanced power of one side is seen as the detriment to the security of the other.

Thus the need for a balance of power. Each side will feel reasonably secure, but never wholly secure. Thus giving to international affairs a constantly churning dynamic. There may be periods of relative stability and even cooperation - as the USA and the USSR cooperated during WWII - but it is never permanent.

As Disraeli famously said, "Finality is not in the vocabulary of politics."

As to the atomic bomb. That is true until it is not. Human beings are imperfect and there is always the danger of war by miscalculation at the minimum.

Indeed, China's recent work - and it may be presumed that the USA is doing work in this area as well - in hypersonic nuclear weapons is extremely destabilizing. If tensions increase, and the USA in some situation detects a Chinese missile launch, the USA will have to assess the meaning and purpose of the launch or be placed in a "use'em or lose'em" situation.

Nuclear war to follow.

[Jamie05rhs]

@nightdrot The Napoleonic wars were ideological?

[Jamie05rhs]

@nightdrot Also, with all due respect, there is no time to "assess the meaning and purpose of" a nuclear launch. It's in the sky and headed towards you. The question, if there was any, has already been answered.

[nightdrot]

@Jamie05rhs On the last point, my point is that it must be determined if, indeed, a launch has transpired. You may recall several "false alarms" that might have led to catastrophe had they not been determined not to have been real launches.

Yes, the Napoleonic wars were ideological. Napoleon was spreading French revolutionary ideas and imposing the French system on neighboring states.

[Jamie05rhs]

If you're referring to the incident in Hawaii, that was information given by the local emergency alert system to the public. That isn't the same as military intelligence given to the President.

[nightdrot]

@Jamie05rhs No, I was referring to several episodes during the Cold War. In any case, even in the Hawaii example, if the error had not been discovered in time, there might have been an accidental response and an unintended conflict.

The bottom line is that accidental conflict can never be ruled out. Given the hair trigger nature of the nuclear threat - especially now with hypersonic weapons in the mix - the risk of unintentional conflict can never be fully ruled out.

[Ineverquit]

Yes it is called the darkest winter. It isn't going to be just china when it is all said and done. It will be with Korea , Russia and China verse The United states. We have been running scenarios for over 4 years. China wants the economic power, this is why they have been messing with sars, covid, etc. The plan was to take out our power grid, by Korean hackers, and they have tested it and we paid them. Then get hit with a form of the plague, , cause panic and take out our sense of security. then hit us with long range missiles. which would destroy many at one time. However we are prepared. We have a few things none of them do. We have better weapons, they train a lot but we train effectively. We have a strong military, strong defense systems, we have better private sectors, we have night ops and they do not. we have many other things they don't. We have heart, we have a never say die attitude when it comes down to it, and we may do things in life but when under any attack we become one and we always will. We will be fine. Life's will be lost , times will get scary and hard but have faith we will come out of this and we will be better for it. Hopefully it doesn't come down to this but i have warned many for year and half it was going to happen and I'm sorry but it is going to very soon. China fired on Taiwan few days ago and we fired back , it will go slow at start as they don't want to just hit nuke to start , its gonna be testing waters and chess moves , which we have the board in check already. Trust me, i stay informed more then many and some think I'm nuts but as they always find out later i was right as i have spent many hours on computers and i know where to look lets just say.

[Massageman]

Yup - The commie Troika! I hope the ones that call us nuts have said their prayers. Oh wait, silly me - they think God is a myth.

[MCheetah]

This has been going on literally since 2008. And because of greedy, traitorous corporations and SJW dumbasses, China is definitely winning. Some good news however, is that China's economy has been tanking heavily since COVID.

If it wasn't for he aforementioned pieces of sh*t corporate wastes-of-semen STILL doing business with China right now (the same country which steals IPs and tech, and never replays its loans/debts), then China would've long since run out of money. Probably in mid 2020. It is, ironically, the money from Western corporations which funds the CCP more than anything. Which is as retarded as it sounds. Giving your enemies enough rope to hang you with.

Then again, America excels at funding their own enemies. Just look at the quagmire and trillion dollar waste that was Afghanistan. I love my country but GOD are one-percenters are f*cking dumb!

[MCheetah]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw5hxvWaxJo

[Oigit]

In a way they won against us a long time ago. Simply due to how dependent we are on them for manufacturing and supply chain level. If China decided to close their ports we would lose not only on the supply chain and manufacturing end it would probably tank our economy as well.

People will will like to say their favored side of the political isle could win a new cold war. But that is far from true. Our dependency on china and other countries didn't start yesterday. It's a generational issue that both sides played a huge role in creating. Hell the US might as well be an addict, China and the other countries we are dependent on my might as well be our dealers.

[ibodi]

It is hard to say what exactly. We dont need to talk about trump because he stands for something that amercian fall. maybe witness Hegel's theory. That is why this anime important. you should see both of inside's problems. So you find meta problem.
The anime has been makeing it beautiful to watch

https://www.youtube.com/embed/O5fk80I3orwhttps://www.youtube.com/embed/7k_d3bjpaeY

[Romulus8817]

No.

We're witnessing the age old, saber rattling pissing match.

The only thing that will prompt a war between the United States and China is China invading Taiwan, and that's only because we have an obligation to protect Taiwan, as does Japan and a few other nations.

[hahahmm]

Nope. During the Cold War, US citizens weren't dumb enough to fund a store like Walmart that outsourced as many jobs as possible to Russia. US Citizens are more divided and retarded than ever now. More like China is preparing to become a super power eventually and cares less and less about U. S. opinions.

[MrKinktastic]

It’s been going on since the 90s and is more of a grey war since there are no proxy wars being fought at the moment. It’s mostly a geopolitical struggle for domination. I anticipate the USA winning eventually because capitalism is a much more efficient system but it could be another couple of decades. I also anticipate the USA will have to do a better job of not bullying her allies in order to have a shot at winning in any kind of decisive manner. Not so much militarily as economically.

[NetSapien]

I do not think so.. there may be a ton of flexing though

I already went through one.. it just sucks.. if do end up with a Cold War with China I'd prefer just going balls to the wall and go in full bore tbh.

China does spend more in their military budget than we do currently and I can't help but to think we are directly responsible for them outspending us. So deal the cards and let the chips fall where they may.

[AviatorTom]

I have no idea what the Biden administration is doing w/r/t China... seems to flip-flop every other day. And Chinese President Xi has enough of his own internal problems... economy, COVID to name a few.

If there's a new American-Chinese Cold War, I'm not sure the players are aware of one... yet.

[Dan_cColt]

Kind of but based on how China is it could be a quick one that escalates even further. Conflicts will definitely come close or even happen in the near future but it's more about who's willing to go further with something that could lead to a massive war and possible nuclear outcomes. I know the big militaristic money grubbing a**holes who love war in Washington and China being China could lead somewhere but too much to lose than gain if anything really happens.

[beernbacon69]

I don't think it's anything new and has been going on for the last couple of decades. I think with the fall of the Soviet Union and them splitting up it kind of created a power vacuum in Asia and China stepped up. I have been saying for a few years that in the next decade we will likely be going to war with them with their aspirations of taking Taiwan back and becoming more of a global power.

[JCrockett]

It's not a war until the defender starts to fight back. So far, it's just China flagrantly spying, stealing intellectual property, and buying out our industry from under us, with virtually no retaliation.

[lightbulb27]

yes, I think it's the reality of power transfer. China is very craft about avoiding shooting, but they exert their power and want what they want... unification of Taiwan (nationalists they once fought), and then greater asia I suspect.

[BCA6010]

Not exactly. I don't recall the USSR buying up the US and EU stocks and basic infrastructure, for one, or having significant pull in western politics; in fact you almost had to go out of your way to oppose them if you wanted to get anywhere.

[someginger]

I think its been going on for a while, i mean if it wasn't for nukes there would have been a war between the west and east back in the 60s and if all nukes were gone now there would be a world war within days

[jshm2]

No. Don't be silly. Cold wars are between equals.

The USA is a waning former superpower like the Soviet Union, and China is a rising power.

[Massageman]

Unfortunately becoming a reality if we don't fix things quickly - - - - -

[DCooper]

How could we be in a cold war? Our executive branch reports directly to China's dictator. I wonder how long till Xe fires him for failure to unload all those boats, lol.

[Anonymous]

there's no increase military hostility or aggression between the US and china so no. economic competition hardly warrants the label of a cold war since nearly all countries are competing economically.

What's changed is trump scapegoating and demonizing china for the lack of jobs for dumb, uneducated, trailer trash.

[Stoner710]

Kinda joe Biden is to business farting in front of the Duchess of Cornwall and crapping his pants in front of the Pope to may attention to the Cold War that is brewing,

[Andres77]

China wants Taiwan... and crippling their biggest defender will enable them.
Biden would deliver another nation to torment and communist dominion... as would the Clintons and the rest of those in the CCPs payroll.

[exitseven]

What we are witnessing is a complete sell out of the United States to China. Soon we will be just an annex to China.

[Exterminatore]

Nah. War is already one. Clearly they have all our left wing politicians in their pocket. China is the silent owner of the U. S. now.

[Exterminatore]

*won

[ManHater]

We will offer up our women as comfort girls to the Chinese to be raped over and over again. Women in America will enjoy this because this is what they are doing to America they are turning our men into weak pathetic woke femenist men.

[FunkyMonkee]

Hell no!! Joe's INVITING THEM to come take over!! They're his best buddies!! Look at how rich they made his soon, the crackhead!

[Anonymous]

Not exactly. They are in more of a trade war if anything. If the Chinese government tries to take over Taiwan, the US might get involved in a war with China but they aren't currently at war.

[Seangreen]

No because it's getting warmer by the day. Soon it's going to boil

[Fuentes]

If American business's pulled out of China we would collapse their economy. I don't see a China as a threat at all and we've fought eachother years ago during the Korean War.

[t-8900]

they're a paper tiger and they know it. they have really bad civil unrest and they need us. If we pull pharma and industrial from them they are toast.

[FilmGuy93]

There's been a cold war between our countries for a long time.

[OddBeMe]

We’ve prob had several “cold wars” that just weren’t called as such. In the 80s people we’re talking about another war with Japan just because of the economy.

[888theGreat]

China will take Reserve Currency status away from US and their will be war by US to keep it.

It was England , then US , and now it is China's turn.

[PuNishant]

The new cold war is between India ( quad) and China.

[Sam_The_Savage]

No honey bkoz china is puppet master
And white house is puppet by China

[darkcloud1945]

Soon to be a hot war under Dictator Biden. Impeach Dictator Biden and Giggles Harris

[MJtheCoach]

Do United States China Japan Iran North Korea Indonesia I wanted to countries you don’t want to be a no there’s a nasty war coming

[Anonymous]

Not really, China shat all over us and we're doing nothing about it under the current administration.

[MCheetah]

Biden is Xi Jinping's bitch. Everyone knows this. And it's sad this is the case, too.

[Nick473]

No the war is between the people and the puppet masters of the nations and major corporations

[LegendaryIcon]

prob.

but were also more likely headed towards another civil war, than cold war

[Anonymous]

USA have more army and money then all the other next 10 country afther it, so is imposible.

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

China has enough nuclear weapons to reduce the US to ash. That is not going ti be the issue.

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

IS can do the same of course. That's the power balance of nuclear weapons.

[Opinion Owner]

USA have over 6000 nuks. China doesn't have this crazy number, only Russia have over 7000

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

They don't need a crazy number to bomb the world. They just need enough to bomb the US and that they have.

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

They have close to 1000 of them

[Opinion Owner]

@This_Is_My_Opinion8 USA have enought to bomb all theyr bombs and the nation

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

If they decide to fire, it comes down to who fires first.

[Opinion Owner]

@This_Is_My_Opinion8 nop, its come to who have betther tehnologgi, whitch is usa

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

If they shoot first the US doesn't have much to fight with.

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

Remember we are not talking about general missiles. We are talking about city ending, ground destroying, apocalyptic level nukes.

[Exterminatore]

@anon

Yeah, we’re ready to kick anyones ass with our transgender military and crack female soldiers and Marines.

Look out China, diversity is our secret weapon.

[Anonymous]

No of course not China is great and America is great signed Chinese-American me.

[Opinion Owner]

Stop being so history obsessed you French girl 👧 😊

[Jay13496]

The oppressive Chinese government definitely isn't great. Some people from China might be good but the government that controls the country of China isn't at all.

[Anonymous]

It might be headed in that direction. But with Biden in charge, Id expect the worse for Taiwan.

[Anonymous]

I have no idea. Let them eat each other, they do not give money to meat.

[ElizaPam]

More like between China & Democrats vs Americans

[Iron_Man]

Maybe so unless Donald Trump comes back

[Pterodon]

It isn’t new and under biden we’re already losing

[EnglishEuropean]

It's not new but it could be getting warmer.

[eagle1951]

seems like it, thanks to biden

[Agape93]

No, it's hardly new

[DaveJord]

Yeah, probably

[jimmy2]

No this one will be the next war

[Anonymous]

Yes and I believe the US is losing.

[Agent45]

it really is

[Recurrence]

Nothing new

[Kelly6]

Yes.

[_Troian_]

Let them eachother

[TallAnon]

Did it ever end?