Which Republican President Was Better?

[NorthwestRider]

Lincoln

Trump

[nightdrot]

Unquestionably Abraham Lincoln. It being assumed that the question is - to say no more - tongue in cheek. No president was as decisive and significant as Lincoln, who not only saved the Union in its darkest hour, he defined its very nature.

Indeed, some years back a group of historians rated Lincoln and Churchill not just as great national leaders, but as the greatest leaders in all Western civilization. They earned the accolade - to be sure an accolade not without controversy - because they recurred to very wellsprings of Western civilization to define their statecraft and preserve their societies.

To some degree, this is an observation with a speculative cast. We can only imagine how the Western world would have looked had the United States not survived its civil war. (Ditto had Britain not stood alone and survived in 1940-41.) However, even in a contemporaneous context, Lincoln stands out.

At the time Lincoln became President, it was not just that the country was divided on the question of slavery - with all of its implications for how man viewed his fellow man. The country was, significantly, divided over its very nature. The question of whether or not it was single national community, or instead a confederation of separate and distinct communities, each with their own identity and, in extremis, sovereignty.

Lincoln answered the question not just through military victory - which by itself would not have been enduring - but by summoning the nation to the philosophical essentials of its birth. He defined the nation by common attachment to a specific creed - "a nation dedicated to a proposition" - and in the fullness of time defined the nation.

No President - not even Washington nor Jefferson - answered the question of what the United States was, and thus what it is now, as permanently and definitively. By summoning "the mystic chords of memory," i. e. to a keener sense of its animating principles, Lincoln turned the country into a nation. Something much more essential and elemental and thus enduring.

Not perfectly or completely to be sure. There is no perfection in this mortal veil of tears. However, it is undeniable that had their been no Lincoln, there would have been no America, and had there been no America, the history of Western civilization going forward - with all of its promise of human rights, democracy, and the rule of law - would have looked very different and likely would have taken a far darker turn.

Suffice to say, Mr. Trump accomplished nothing of comparable significance. There is no comparison.

[msc545]

This is like comparing a diamond to a piece of orange shit.

[BillyBalls]

Do tell!!!

[GaGirls]

This question is a joke. It's Lincoln by a million miles. Trump shouldn't be fit to be president. It's not just about getting things done as Trump's blind followers seem to think. It makes sense that they don't understand. I think people love him so much because he embodies mediocrity and most people are that. Even if you dismiss character, Lincoln's ballsy decision to free the slaves was legendary. Lincoln had the balls to free them despite knowing it would turn thousands of friends and political supporters against him. He knew too that it would mean the death of many of the battlefield. In the end, it cost Lincoln his life. That required courage. Would Trump have had the balls to do that? I don't know but we DO know Lincoln did. No what if needed there. When you look at Samuel Adams, John Hancock, and the men who signed and organized the DOI, who is more like them? What they did took courage. Nobody was betting on them. In a logical world, they would have all been hanged long before they even fought an impossible war on the battlefield. Real life David vs Goliath. Those men were heroes. Loyalty of the highest order!

I'm sorry but regardless of much knowledge that I am surely missing on both because I do not care much about the subject; I know that what I do know is enough to say Lincoln by a million miles. Sad how some people think freeing the slaves wasn't significant. Many people you see everyday would either be slaves or not even alive if not for him. I'm not claiming to be the most knowledgable on the subject of these two but seriously if you don't think his decision and its IMPACT was a big deal you're pathetic and exactly what's wrong with America.

[doopayo]

Lincoln was responsible for the lost cause which still effects the south till this day and trump.. self explanatory he’s on his clown shit 24/7. I prefer neither, it doesn’t matter which president was better. America is a country built off racism, genocide, and imperialism so I don’t have any support for any of the little war criminal presidents that run it.

[Alwayreckles93]

Oh my god and here we go again , No one is racist here. You people just have huge anger issues.

[doopayo]

@Alwayreckles93 you’re right, I do have anger issues. I’d kill a fascist nazi scum on site, #selfdefense

[Alwayreckles93]

Wonderful 👏 Mom must be very proud. Is this what they teach you? Violence is the key?

[OlderAndWiser]

Lincoln was a white supremacist who happened to be the prsident during the Civil War and he is credited with saving the nation but he was not the driving force in the military strategy. It was obvious, because of supply and logistics problems, that anyone who made the war last long enough could defeat the South. I don't canonize Lincln because he was assassinated.

Trump obviously loses points on style but he accomplished much of what he promised, despite having a constant battle with Democrats and the Main Stream Morons. I give the nod to Lincoln but it is not a runaway, not-even-a-question, kind of question.

[Kaneki05]

Lincoln has a statue of him on a throne as his legacy.
Trump has the amazing quote “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.” his thoughts on how covid would be after been told many times by scientists much smarter than him no matter how much he wants to think he's smarter that it's not.
It's really hard to pick. Also Lincoln today would be more on the left since the views back then kinda reversed over time on issues that he was ageist. So a very easy choice here.

Though i would imagine conservatives today cannot back Lincoln that much today due to that. Trump is the conservatives of today sadly. It's funny to think they were actually more smart back in the day's.

[Leonharted]

Not even a question. If you look into Lincoln, he was an unrepentant racist, he illegally forced freed blacks into his army, and once the war ended he spent the rest of his life trying to force every last African back to Africa. He was also corrupt as hell (the South didn't leave over slavery, in fact Lincoln told them he could keep them, but left because of unfair tariffs).

Whatever your opinion of Trump, he wasn't a racist, corrupt tyrant that ignored any law that was in his way. If a court told him to stop doing something, he'd stop.

[humanearth]

I don't who this Trump guy is. What is he a tanning salon employee

Now. Lincoln was a cool cat. I use to work for him. Back when he had his company Lincoln Buggies. That was before Jenny Ford was a dick to. Mr Ford had this huge man crush on him.

Ford asked Lincoln for a little sucky sucky time. Lincoln got pissed and called Ford a fucking Homo.

Ford got wanted Lincoln to be his bitch and it didn't go as planned. So Ford started buying all the stock in Lincoln's Buggies company and got controlling interest of the company.

Ford thought if He can't have Lincoln's dick. Lincoln can't have the company.

Well that's all I got for now.

When I come back, I have a story for you. Its about Obama, Biden and Rice in Threesome and Nancy is in the corner wacking her needle dick

[pervertedjester]

I could go on a rant here about how Lincoln was responsible for every life lost in the war. Or how weirdly he's remembered as a Saint solely based off one proclamation, that freed no one in the North or the South. But people will gloss over History without much fanfare and it's not my job to educate the historically ignorant.

As for your question, just look at the body count.

[Aerissa_Jade]

People claim he freed the slaves but they have never read the emancipation proclamation then, you get it. He only freed the slaves in the southern states not under northern control. It was a political move that kept loyal border states where slavery was still legal from revolting and joining the south.

[BillyBalls]

How can there be a comparison of the two?

They were President during different eras. The problems were different.

The solutions were different.

The approaches needed were different.

So my response is they were both great Presidents given the point in time they served.

[goaded]

Lincoln held a presidential election in the middle of a civil war (using mail-in ballots). Trump still refuses to accept the result of the election that ousted him (but kept nearly all Republican congresspeople in place).

[BillyBalls]

@goaded For Trump's first three years, Democrats claimed Trump was an illegitimate President.

Hillary, Pelosi and dozens more claimed Trump was illegitimate and the Russians and Ukrainians helped him get elected.

There are YouTube videos of them making the claim.

[goaded]

The Russians did help him get elected. Republicans accepted that help without denouncing it and McConnell refused to make public the fact that they were helping before the election. These things are simply facts. It's also a fact that Manafort passed Republican internal campaign information to a Russian agent.

Despite all that, Clinton peacefully accepted the results of the election in November 2016.

[BillyBalls]

@goaded Clinton has been whining about losing for five years now.

If there is proof Trump cheated in 2016 please provide the links.

[goaded]

Feel free to complain about the results of the election, just don't pretend it hasn't been decided a year after it has been.

I didn't say Trump "cheated", I said: The Russians did help him get elected. Republicans accepted that help without denouncing it and McConnell refused to make public the fact that they were helping before the election. These things are simply facts. It's also a fact that Manafort passed Republican internal campaign information to a Russian agent.

If you dispute any of those facts, please provide the links.

[YunoMe]

My brain says Lincoln but ma heart says trump. Every day of him as president was such a fun ride. It felt like living in a sit com where the world could end because an orange man was busy on twitter.
He single handedly brought John Oliver, Trevor Noah and many more to fame. Roasting trump was such a delightful experience. And man was he such a sigma in general. Him just existing a was peak comedy. Man I miss those days

[sage2021]

I really miss those days too. And I miss Trump being our. After all, 75 million person voted for him!

[OneManOnly01]

Wtf? I can’t believe it I thought Lincoln will get 100%

[NorthwestRider]

There are many idiots on here

[RolandCuthbert]

It is just funny how racists blame the Democrats for slavery. But blame Lincoln for kicking the crap out of the Dems.

But then again, the very belief system is based on hypocritical nonsense.

[BillyBalls]

What the fuck are you babbling about?

[RolandCuthbert]

@BillyBalls Wow. . . an insane crazed racist fruitcake. . . claims I am babbling.

Haha!!!

[Exterminatore]

Racists. No one gives af any more. You guys wore it out. Yeah, I’m a racist too and blah blah blah. No one cares.

[RolandCuthbert]

@Exterminatore Well, stating the fact that racists don't really care doesn't say much. I mean racists can't really care much for those who exist outside of the "master race".

How else could you impose slavery, genocide, Jim Crow, etc?

[Exterminatore]

“Racists can’t really care much for those who exist outside the “master race” - this implies that only white people are racist because the master race theory was a Nazi held and developed theory. That is profoundly untrue.

I mean no one cares anymore about racism. That’s all we hear is racism, racism, racism. No one cares about the narcissistic pity party people who constantly bring up this subject are having.

Life is what you make of it. No one is responsible for you but you. There is no hidden or overt system of oppression towards blacks. There is a hypersensitivity to racism. There is a system of anti racism towards all non whites. Everyone is tired of hearing this crap. No one cares anymore. We’re all out of white guilt now.

Frankly if we confiscated every cent and possession whites have and gave them to blacks and put every white person in chains and made them the slaves of blacks for the next 1000 years they’d probably still whine and complain.

[RolandCuthbert]

@Exterminatore You are speaking on behalf of everyone now? Dude, just speak on behalf of your fellow "believers". I would never pretend to speak for racists. I know that a racist and I have different beliefs.

As for my life, dude again. . . you are an internet troll. What do you know about my life? You don't even know what racism is, much less what I do for a living, how much money I make or how successful I am.

That is racism at its finest. I mean that is a screwy philosophy, that somehow you can mistreat people based upon their fake "race", then claim that they reason why they would dislike your insane racist philosophy is because they aren't successful.

My niece will be getting her doctorate in psychology next year. My nephew just bought his first new house. I own an IT consulting company.

Racism does not give a fuck about how successful "Black" people are. It makes the most negative assumptions about the folks who are not members of the master race without regard to economic status, education or culture.

Because that is what racism is. . . . it is nonsensical bias. . . pretending to be logical.

[BillyBalls]

The Little Angry Black Boy can't handle facts!!!

[doopayo]

Lol, now I know why I blocked all these little racist clowns with no life

[Exterminatore]

Ahhhh doopayo. The brilliant one who thinks doctors actually believe blacks feel less pain and are therefore under medicated.

Go back to feeling sorry for yourself as a fake persecuted black person.

[Exterminatore]

@Roland

What your saying is BS. You and your family are obviously successful. If the system were so against blacks you’d not be successful and neither would your kin. You’d all be shoveling mule shit. Yet you and your kin managed to find success. How is that so? Because as I said life is what you make of it. You chose to be successful. So did your kin. Excellent. I commend all of you.

I don’t speak for everyone. I speak for the great many who are afraid to speak because they will be labeled racist. As for me, I don’t care what anyone choose to label me or if they call me a racist. The word has lost all meaning. I speak for the silent majority. Do you really think blacks and their supporters can burn down half the country like 4 year olds throwing a temper tantrum at a cost in the billions and people will still feel bad for you? Do you think some guy in Dallas or Atlanta who owns a store and had nothing to do with police or Floyd and wasn’t there will watch his business go up in flames and his merchandise be looted and still feel
sorry for you all. What a warped sense of Justice. “Hey everyone look! There’s a guy who didn’t do us any wrong, let’s beat him up and take his shit…. you know…. to get justice for Floyd.” Who’d have ever thought stealing Nikes would get justice for Floyd? What a perverted sense of justice. If there was so much racism in America they’d have been stacking the bodies of those rioters for weeks and you know that, but instead they let them pillage at will…except Kyle Rittenhouse house, and may God bless him.

Dude, there is no systematic racism towards blacks. No one cares. Ever been with a girl who says she loves you like 800 times a day? The word looses its power and meaning. Same with the word racism. Now, no one gives AF anymore. People got their own problems without having to listen to narcissistic babies cry about how whites and the government owe them.

[Exterminatore]

@doopayo

Go back to blocking me. You got nothing intelligent or even stupid to say that I want to hear. You won’t be missed.

[Womanrule22]

@Exterminatore U know Dr Sues made a book making fun of us black people FYI!!! So don't be saying shit about no one cares about racism. U r a white man so u never face racism! U R A racist !

[Exterminatore]

@Woman

Oh. You again. Yeah I never had a black woman look me in the eye and tell me: “white people are the devil.”

Never been told that ALL white people are racist and oppressors. ALL of them.

Stfu. I’ve experienced more racism than your fake victim ass ever will.

No one cares bitch. No one.

[RolandCuthbert]

@BillyBalls Haha!!! Your cowardly racist ass would never utter these "facts" in public. That's why you guys wear the bedsheets.

[RolandCuthbert]

@Womanrule22 You know. . . I wanted to be on your side. But you just posted a bunch of nonsense. At least the racist dude is posting actual sentences. If you want to combat racism, get educated first. Racists don't need an education. A racist is smart because other "White" people are smart. Unfortunately, "we" have to learn for ourselves.

[RolandCuthbert]

@Exterminatore Uhm, you are telling me I am talking bs, when you just agreed with what I said.

That’s kind of. . . weird.

No, the system is still against “Black” people. Look at yourself. You are a racist, right? And you claimed I was mad about racism because I was unsuccessful. The same tired old argument every racist uses, right? So no matter how successful “Black” people are, you will still cling to nonsensical racist stereotypes of “Black” folks. While at the same time claiming your own biases make no difference in their lives. If you are a police officer pretending to be unracist by day, then come up here anonymously to spew racist shit, then you affect “Black” people’s lives. You could be a politician, a lawyer, a doctor, etc. And unlike other rational racists, your cowardly butt won’t just admit to your biases openly and honestly for discussion. You hide, here.

Nah, you speak for other racists. I work with “White”, “Black”, Asian, Arab, American Indian, etc. every single day. I run meetup and discussion groups on race and culture with hundreds of folks. And I can safely say you do not speak for them. You speak for those who share your racist nonsense.

As for me, I don’t speak for anyone but me. I wouldn’t make such a nonsensical claim. And I don’t need to. Because I know my beliefs. I need no one to make arguments for me. Nor do I have to pretend others agree with me to feel better about what I believe.

[RolandCuthbert]

@Exterminatore Just continuing;

Haha!! A racist troll claims he doesn’t care what people think of him.

Dude, you are a coward. All cowards care what people think of them. I am the one who doesn’t give a fuck about what a racist thinks. Unlike you, up here spewing shit anonymously. I tell my truth in public, in public discussion forums, to people’s faces. We meet in Starbucks, Panera, Family restaurants, online. Our last meetup was at a Somalian restaurant. You could never do that. No racist here could do that. It is why racists hide now. It is why they wear sheets. They are cowards. Well, some of them. There are those who just tell you what they think. But that kind of courage isn't common.



As for your point about burning down country, I didn’t burn anything. I actually tried to stop the burning in my neighborhood. Unlike you, I don’t excuse violence, injustice, or wrongdoing. I knew burning down and looting was wrong. And I made that point for four hours to a mob of young “Black” folks in my neighborhood.

But I don’t do racism. I hold you responsible for your beliefs. I don’t accuse my girlfriend of racism because you a racist. I don’t blame her for the death of Philandro Castile or George Floyd or Tamir Rice. I blame racists and racism for that. I don’t blame the mythical “White” race because despite your religious beliefs in it, it does not exist.

There is only one race dude. Figure that shit out.

And you keep pleading with me. Dude, I don’t care what you say or how much you beg. America was built upon racism. And if it is going to survive, it is going to have to face that fact.

[BillyBalls]

@RolandCuethbert Are you constipated (aka full of shit) this morning? You ranting like an ignorant niggro

[RolandCuthbert]

@BillyBalls Keep wearing your bedsheet dude. You don't want folks finding out who you are.

LOLx10!!!

[BillyBalls]

@Exterminatore The little girl @doopayo can't handle the truth.

[RolandCuthbert]

@BillyBalls But a cowardly internet troll can?

Hahaha!!

That little girl is braver than two thousand "White" supremacist cowards like you. She posts her real photos and about her real life. Meanwhile you are probably 347lbs, 5'2", and sitting at your computer with your pants around your ankles.

[Exterminatore]

@Roland

No, I’m not a racist. I despise racism. I do not believe my race or any other race is superior of inferior to any other race. I believe all humans were created in God’s image, meaning they are eternal, they possess the ability to reason, they are not like animals solely living off instinct.

The system is not against black people. Let a white person utter a racial slur at work and find out what happens. Look at Donald Stirling, the former owner of the Clippers. They banned him from the NBA for life for racial slurs. Even all his money and power couldn’t get him out of that. Politicians allowed allowed blacks and their supporters to go on a rampage in cities across America in the summer of 2020 and did nothing to stop it. In July of 1863 a bunch of white people rioted in NYC against being drafted in the Civil War. Guess what happened to them? They got shot. No one shot anyone rioting in 2020. Do you seriously think any politician or head of state or CEO or anyone rich and powerful can get away with racial slurs these days? Not a frigging chance. That doesn’t imply systematic racism, it implies hypersensitivity to racism. If there were systematic racism your business would go bankrupt cause people would say they ain’t doing business with n*ggers.

So I said “year I’m a racist and blah blah blah because that’s all you people do is call people racists when they call you out on on your BS. Guess what. My best friend is a hard core biker. He’s covered in tats and wears only leather. His wife can’t get pregnant. They adopted a black boy. Guess who that black boys godfather is? ME and if you think I hate that precious child due to his skin color for one second your out of your mind. My duties would be to raise him as my own should something happen to his parents and I’d not hesitate for one second to do so.

As for the rest I’m not responding to any of it because BS.

[Exterminatore]

@Roland

Blacks have the highest rates of out of wedlock births in this country and statistically the highest rates of absentee fathers. Is that the fault of systematic racism? They also hand the highest rates of any race in prison and recidivism. Is there no individual responsibility for themselves or is that white peoples faults too.

Sick and tired of this. So Is everyone else. No one is at fault for the lives of black people but black people. Period.

[BillyBalls]

@Exterminatore You can't talk facts to a simpleton, racist like Roland.

He will call you a racist for speaking the truth.

[RolandCuthbert]

@BillyBalls Racist "White" supremacist freaks think their ideology is the truth. Just like every extremist fruitcake group, the Taliban, the Nazis, the Confederates, it is who you are.

You are just a bunch of zealots.

[RolandCuthbert]

@Exterminatore Wait, you just utter some nonsensical stats on "Black" people. Then attack a 14 year old girl for repeating what has been known in the medical field for decades. Doctors holding insane nonsensical racist beliefs.

WTF?

www.thecut.com/.../...rous-racial-stereotypes.html

In a 2016 study from the University of Virginia, a team of psychologists examined doctors’ and nurses’ beliefs about biological differences between races, and explored how those false assumptions contributed to the systematic under-prescription of pain medication to black patients. For the first part of the experiment, the researchers, led by Kelly Hoffman, asked 121 white Americans — without any medical background — to assess a series of false statements about how members of different races responded to pain. Most of them — about 73 percent — endorsed at least one myth. Thirty-nine percent believed that black people’s blood coagulated faster than white people’s; 20 percent said that black people’s nerve endings were less sensitive than whites’; 58 percent believed that blacks had thicker skin.

[Exterminatore]

@billy

I’m starting to see that. I was hoping to get through to him. I suppose you can’t reach people who are perpetually told they are victims when they are not. Were the black slaves, the blacks in the south at the time of Jim Crow, and the blacks who suffered under segregation victims? For certain. What about in 2021 with all they hypersensitivity to racism, with affirmative action for jobs and schools, with DAs’s refusing to prosecute certain crimes and setting absurdly low bail amounts? I think not. Blacks have many advantages others don’t, yet everything is white peoples fault. I see many blacks making poor life decisions and failing to be accountable for their lives and blaming white people, the government and imaginary systematic racism for everything instead of blaming themselves.

I know so many see this but are afraid to speak out. Well I’m not. I’m gonna call BS what it is.

And you’re right Billy. Soon as blacks or any leftists disagree with you they just label you a racist…. except it has no effect on some of us anymore and that number is growing daily because they wore it out.

[Exterminatore]

@Roland

Blacks do not feel less pain than whites. Everyone knows that. Do you really expect me to believe people passed pre med and all the other training to be a doctor and still somehow believe that?

The only racist here is you and her. Looking for any excuse to throw a putty party and believing any propaganda you hear with no critical thought.

Currently white people are victimized NOT blacks who have many advantages whites don’t.

[RolandCuthbert]

@Exterminatore
? Of course you are a racist. How in the world can you believe in the mythology of race and then rank racial groupings and not be a racist?

Dude, that is the very definition of racism. It is hilarious how you hypocritically and hilariously talk about God as though God would agree with insane racist nonsense. Here you are talking about the human family, but you seemed to have forgotten all the negative things you believe about "Black" people. But racism is a belief system of contradictions. You believe in the family of humankind. . . but somehow this family is divided into genetic groups called races.

Wow!

Just because you are a racist, who may think you can saddle every "Black" with these burdens of racial sins, doesn't mean that every "White" person is going to do the same. I guess you have turned this into some kind of argument that other "White" folks are not racist. . . therefore through some kind of racial connection you are absolved of your racist beliefs. I just want to say. . . maybe that's crazy.

Racism is still present in its absolute nonsensical idiotic form, even as the supposed "Blacks" and the supposed "Whites" intermarry, have sex, and deep relations. Because racism itself isn't based upon anything logical.

A racist would claim the same nonsense they always have. That somehow the product of these unions are a different race, therefore should be tracked, analyzed and studied as some kind of actual group. That's just insanely weird.

Why is the rejection of overt racism some kind argument against its existence?

I mean, maybe you need to think about how crazy that argument it. If we keep finding racism in our courts, in our sports management, in our police departments, in our schools, in our newsrooms. . .

maybe it exists.

Just sayin'.

[RolandCuthbert]

@Exterminatore You are sick and tired of this.

Haha!!!

Dr. King died. . . the most hated man in Amercia. They sick and tired of him too. I want you to fully understand. I do not care if you are sick and tired. In fact, I don't even care, whether I care or not. I do not consort with racists. I don't befriend them. I am not marrying one. So I don't have to please any of you. Those days are gone, forever.

I will however give you one chance to be rational.

Riddle me this. . . how in the world do you talk "Black" individuality in terms of the bad choices some "Black" people make, but then burden all "Blacks" with the stereotypes you hold?

Before you lie and claim you don't. Again, no one in my family has babies out of wedlock. . . not that that is anything we should care about mind you. No one in my family is a convict or ex-con. So why should we care about the stats you keep. And why should we have to answer to anyone for the bad choices other "Black" people make.

If we are individuals, then we are individuals.

[Exterminatore]

@Roland

What exactly is the mythology of race. When did I rank racial groups. All I stated was statistics to show blacks are the ones who suppress themselves, not white people and not the government. Not in 2021. 70 years ago you’d have a valid point. Not anymore. 70 years ago I would have marched with Dr. king.

The definition of racism is very simple. It is the belief that someone thinks certain races are inferior or superior to other races. Period. We try to make fact telling and truth telling racist now. Sorry, but the truth hurts and if the shoe fits wear it.

God would agree. He said man is created in his image.

To be declared not racist does not involve kissing the asses of black people and giving them special privileges they don’t deserve. It’s doesn’t mean approving of them and their alies of other races burning down the country and raping and murdering and beating and stealing at will and nodding in agreement with it.

You are responsible for you. You chose to be one successful and open your own business. Good on you. You should be proud and frankly you had the drive and balls and skill to do something I could never do. So who’s oppressing you? You made a choice. Your choice was the right one. This same principal applies to everyone of every race. We’re all responsible for ourselves. White people are not responsible for blacks. The government is not responsible for blacks. Statistics clearly show blacks are not being responsible for blacks and blaming all their problems on racism and white people and it’s a crock.

[RolandCuthbert]

@Exterminatore No. Everyone doesn't. This is an insane conversation. I can post to you pages and pages of racial stereotypes held by folks in the medical field. Stereotypes that have lead to misdiagnosis, injury and death. I posted a news article showing surveys of medical personnel who hold racist beliefs. They just don't know they are racist beliefs.

And the thing is you are in a forum where a good number of folks including you believe that "Blacks" and "Whites" are genetically different.

Only to then claim that there are some racist stereotypes that folks should disbelieve.

Dude, racism is crazy. All of it. You sound like the MadHatter who attempts to fix the Rabbit's watch by stuffing it with butter, macaroni, tunafish, lettuce. . . but when offered jelly.. . . claims that using jelly is crazy.

Every racist stereotype is nonsense. Because the concept of race itself is nonsense. There is no such thing as one racist stereotype being true. . . but then some other ones being false.

You can keep spouting the same nonsense, like very scared racist coward in existence. It won't change the fact that folks hold to different nonsensical racist beliefs than yours. And they just happen to be doctors.

We had that very discussion in this forum. Racists claimed that "Blacks" were genetically different, therefore needed different medical approaches.

[Womanrule22]

@Exterminatore U is no respect woman!!!

[Womanrule22]

Roland Cuthbert y u call me uneducated? I was defending u.

What is the problem?

[Exterminatore]

@Roland

King did not die the most hated man in America. That’s what we even have a holiday reserved for him right? Because he was so hated? I greatly admire the man, but if you think blacks today are living in line with his principals you’re sorely mistaken.

And there you go proving my point. Labeling me a racist because I disagree with you. Yeah, all racists admire King and accept black children as their god sons as I just stated. You are so warped you can’t see fact from fiction anymore.

What stereotypes do I hold? You can’t name one. I stated statistics for you. Stats are facts not opinions. Stat that bro.

Good for you. Are you the only black family on this planet? In this country. Stats show blacks as a race have more children out of wedlock and absentee fathers than all the other races. That’s fact dude. Sorry if I hurt your feelings with fact.

Once again it’s fact blacks are the majority race in jail…. just one of the things people of your mentality use to show a racist justice system…. but is it or os it blacks simply commit more crime…. hmmmm.

No one said you have to answer for the bad choices of blacks. All I ever said was no one gives a crap anymore about the frigging race card and most people are sick of hearing it. No one cares buddy because the facts I stated can be easily observed without researching anything at all.

All I’m saying is there is no systematic oppression of blacks and you and you’re family are proof. You have your own business. One just bought his first house. Anther had an advanced degree in psychology. None of those things would happen in a system that is predatory and hostile to blacks would they? As I said you’d all be shoveling mule shit if it were so, but clearly it’s not. You all are succeeding to your credit. So what’s the excuse for the rest not making it? Racism? Well you guys did it? Racism obviously didn’t stop you. So what’s their excuse? White people? The government?

[Exterminatore]

@Woman “u is no respect woman” - correct. I have little respect for people who cannot speak proper English.

U is uneducated.

[RolandCuthbert]

@Exterminatore So you don't know that the very concept of race is mythology. That in truth, there no such race as "Black". We are collection of cultures. You may note some negative group behavior of African-Americans. But you are insane enough to then claim African immigrants, Caribbean immigrants, "Black" Latinos, somehow should be grouped and rank in the nonsensical concept called the "Black" race for your stat keeping.

And you don't get that I reject the premise from your first utterance. It is stupid to claim a guy from Togo and an African-American from a poor neighborhood in Houston share this race nonsense. Which you claim first is a genetic connection. . . in fact it is one of the craziest thing about racism.

That you guys claim races have genetic common ground. And those genetics lead to behavior issues. Only then to claim that "Black" people's choices are the reason for their failure, when the concept of race ensures all "Blacks" are genetically prediposed to fail. It is just such a weird concept.

And let me when you go to God in the Name of Jesus Christ and ask Him whether or not He created this concept called race. If you are afraid to voice this nonsense in public. How on earth could you have the courage to ask the Almighty what He thinks of your beliefs of the people He told you to embrace as family?

[Exterminatore]

@Woman

I’m done responding to you. Unlike Roland, you don’t desire to have a conversation and exchange opinions and cite facts and try to convince each other as we are.

You instead are an antagonist. You want to call people racists without one objective point to your comments.

I could sit here and call you a bunch of names too but what would that accomplish?

Therefore I’m done responding to you since you are clearly not intelligent enough to construct and argument and back it with facts or a well constructed opinion.

If you think I care one bit about you calling me a racist you’re sorely mistaken. I know that’s the word used when people don’t agree by people who aren’t intelligent enough to construct a well thought out argument and are likewise tactically uninformed.

Speaking of a Lincoln, I believe is it was him who said it’s better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you’re a fool than to open it and prove it. It’s advice you should follow.

U get whats I is saying?

[RolandCuthbert]

@Exterminatore You are making this about you and not your insane racist bullshit.

So let's just give each other a proper understanding. I want you, to stay insane crazy racist. I am not here to convert you.

I don't need you.

I don't want you.

I have plenty of people who you would consider to be "White", loving me, giving me kisses, hugs, and acceptance.

They don't preach to me about what I did wrong because some "Black" dude robbed a gas station down the street. I don't get preached to about babies out of wedlock, when I don't have any.

They are not racists. So they don't hold racist beliefs and concepts. They also do not carry around guilt because you are. And I insist that they do not.

So before you go on about kissing "Black" people's asses.

We have friendship, marriages, relations, etc. with plenty of folks you consider to be "White".

So keep your lips away from our asses.

[RolandCuthbert]

@Exterminatore "King did not die the most hated man in America."

I am going to take this one statement as an illustration to show why racism is insane crazed and utter nonsense.

So King did not die the most hated man in America?

I am going to post source after source to see if you can wrap you head around what is a commonly accepted fact.

www.smithsonianmag.com/.../

Seventy-five percent of Americans disapproved of the civil rights leader as he spoke out against the Vietnam War and economic disparity

www.uua.org/.../flawed-understanding-martin-luther-king-jr

The Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was a radical. He was called “the most dangerous man in America” by the FBI and had a 17,000 page FBI file at the time of his death.

It wasn’t just KKK members or those in positions of power who disagreed with him or hated him. As Cornel West explains in his book The Radical King, by the time of King's death, most of the country didn’t like him. “There was intense FBI pressure, including attempts to make him commit suicide,” West reminds us. “The black civil rights leadership was trashing him. The white establishment had rejected him. The young black revolutionaries were dismissing him.” Over the course of his life, King was not a man who was loved by most; in fact, he was hated by a select few. He was an incredibly maligned man by the time he died. And yet we never talk about that.

www.theroot.com/from-most-hated-to-american-hero-the-whitewashing-of-m-1824258876

This week, America will commemorate the 50th anniversary of the assassination of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., the most famous and beloved civil rights leader in the nation’s history. Lost in the remembrance of the death of our nation’s most heralded warrior for social justice is the fact that—at the time of his death—King was a man in exile.

It just seems like this forum is an example of the failure of the American public school system. I had to learn about the hatred towards King long after I left college.

[RolandCuthbert]

@Womanrule22 Uhm. . . you are not helping.

[Exterminatore]

@Roland

Then let’s not bother discussing this anymore.

I’ll just be the racist as if I care anyone calls me that because I just consider the source, and you can just be the indoctrinated sheep who prefers to believe blacks are victimized by everyone but themselves because of their skin color.

[Womanrule22]

Roland Cuthbert
My brother u r smart
I do really want to help u and make the racist air head back people is successful.

[Womanrule22]

@Exterminatore I do not agree on n that comment u posted I put mad face!!!
U said me I no intelligent? Ur mother is unintelligent I see y u is no intelligent.
White boy u need glasses!!!

[Womanrule22]

@Exterminatore Y r u going on social media attacking black people? Y u hate black people? Answer me?

[RolandCuthbert]

@Exterminatore Just want to put this whole thing of King not being the most hated man in America to rest. He was absolutely hated for what he did. He was absolutely hated for what he stood for. And he was killed because of that hatred.

www.teenvogue.com/.../dr-martin-luther-king-jr-died-because-of-hatred

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Died Because of Hatred. That Should Not Be Whitewashed
"History is cluttered with the wreckage of nations and individuals who pursued this self-defeating path of hate."

www.iestork.org/.../

Martin Luther King Jr. was the most hated man in America.

Every year on MLK Day in the United States, and across the globe, people from all political spectrums quote Dr. King’s most famous speeches. We echo that we, too, have a dream for racial equality. We honor his nonviolence, mourn his untimely assassination, and champion what he did for the Civil Rights Movement. Yet, while we do this, we ignore what Dr. King really stood for.

And lastly, the words of his daughter.

"Don’t act like everyone loved my father. He was assassinated. A 1967 poll reflected that he was one of the most hated men in America. Most hated. Many who quote him now and evoke him to deter justice today would likely hate, and may already hate, the authentic King. #MLK."

[RolandCuthbert]

@Exterminatore Right. Just be the racist, do your racist thing. Perfect the Master Race and all that. Pretend that you don't know who @billyballs is or what he represents. Pretend you would have liked King even as you are sick and tired of racial discussions today. They were sick and tired of King and they killed him to rid themselves of that discussion.

And we will be over here. All mixed up genetically, culturally, etc. We won't be able to tell who is supposedly "Black" or supposed "White". But we still will have cultural groups. We just won't pretend that race is logical factual or makes any kind of sense at all.

But culture is like that. Because humans make it.

[Exterminatore]

@Roland

If you’d said 54 years ago King was hated and there was systematic racism and blacks were oppressed I’d fully agree with you and I’d stand with them against such oppression.

Today that’s all gone. It simply doesn’t exist. Some hated King for being against the war. Not because of his desire for racial equality. Maybe at the time he was hated. Now he’s revered as a champion of justice and equality as he ought to be.

My point was never that blacks at one time were treated horrendously. They clearly were. My point is they no longer are and the myth of wide spread racism in 2021 is just that. A myth.

[RolandCuthbert]

@womanrule22 I would rather you not defend me. I would rather you just post the truth about race and racism.

You could try posting some factual information to dispute what @Exterminatore is saying. Because like every other racist, he keep talking about "Black" people's choices. . . even as he defines us genetically.

Which is weird, nonsensical and uhm. . . illogical.

[Womanrule22]

Roland Cuthbert Now u is defending white boy?
Boy u r a disgrace to our people !!! U now think u is white?
Boy u must stand for our people
Gorgoe Fluid got murder by white cop!!!

[RolandCuthbert]

@Exterminatore It should not have been this hard to prove that King was hated. And it shows the insanity of racism. You have had all your life to study King and his work. You just didn't. At any time, you could have read about what he went through. But we know why you did not, because such an exercise does not lead to a justification of your beliefs. You know the one line from his "I had a dream" speech. And that is all you need to know in your opinion. Because you can somehow twist that line to support racist stereotypes. As though King actually believed in the failure of the mythical "Black" race.

You have never read his "Letter from a Birmingham Jail". Which is a masterpiece. Even if it did not address one racial issue, it is just a beautiful literary work on its own. You didn't know how hated he was during the time of the Civil Rights movement. You don't seem to know how many times he was beaten up, arrested, threatened and so on. So that lead to some analysis that he was not murdered in a culture and environment of seething hatred.

So I took the time to really explain this to anyone reading along.

Of course it isn't all gone. The folks who hated King are still alive today. They still wield tremendous power. They taught their seething hatred to their kids and grandkids. They taught the mythology of racial groupings. And they taught their children that non-"White" races are responsible for the negative stereotypes held about them.

Why this is a big issue to you, I am not certain. But I just deal with racism when I have to. But luckily for me, that isn't often.

[RolandCuthbert]

@Womanrule22 So you are not a real "Black" woman are you?

If you think you are, join my group. We meet twice a month. Then we can check this whole thing of me defending. . . a "White" boy.

I don't do race madam. I don't believe in race. I have plenty of folks in my circle who could be considered "White". But I don't call them something so insulting as "White" boi.

And just who is "your people".

You are a fake troll.

[RolandCuthbert]

@Exterminatore This womansrule needs to be banned. I would appreciate if folks here just flag her account. I am doing it now.

[BillyBalls]

@RolandCuthbert How about if we ban a racist like you?

[RolandCuthbert]

@BillyBalls Well, racist freak. Try it. You have a vivid imagination. With your dreams of being a member of the Master Race and all.

:D

[Exterminatore]

@Roland

You’re a racist too and just don’t see it. When people blame whites and the government for their problems and failures in life they’re failing to take accountability for themselves.

That’s what all the cries of racism are about today. Looking for a scapegoat instead of taking accountability for personal failures. It’s about blaming white people instead of people blaming themselves and their decisions.

[Exterminatore]

@Roland

Also womenrule22 made one of my points for me. She is very clearly a racist. Even attacked you. Proof positive there that non whites can and in fact are as wide spread and virulent as the myth of “white nationalists” we keep hearing about that are supposedly behind every tree and bush as if this were 1955 Mississippi.

But no one is talking about non white racists like you and her, and make no mistake Roland you are undoubtedly a racist. You say you don’t do race…yet are clearly pro black, not pro truth. If you were pro truth you’d acknowledge facts and statistics like Candice Owens and Thomas Sowell do.

[Exterminatore]

*can and in fact are racists

[RolandCuthbert]

@Exterminatore Well, you can call me a racist. But unlike you, I truly do not care. Because I don't hide out on the net, making fruitcake racist arguments. I lead discussions in person and online. I don't believe in race or care to rank/rate your mythical race to feel better about myself.

When I accomplish something cool, like building a data center, or performing a cloud migration, that's when feel good about myself. I don't carry guilt around about the poor choices folks who may share my skin color may make. Nor do I pretend that I need to account to a racist like you for their behavior.

:D

But according to you pretending that race is real and that racial stats reflect "reality" isn't racist.

And that is the very foundation that racism is built upon.

You see, you are not only a racist. You are a liar. Because you pretend the argument is that "Blacks" in the hood are poor because of racism.

No, we know racism exists because racists insist that "Blacks" who are not poor or struggling must be held to account for "Black" people who are struggling.

You preached to me about "Black" out of wedlock births, just like I had children out there. You preached to me about "Black" poverty, just like I was poor. Because you can't see "Black" people as individuals.

[doopayo]

Facts ^^

[Womanrule22]

@Exterminatore Y white bitch go date black guys 😡😡😡😡😡😡😡?

[Womanrule22]

I am a beautiful African American independent woman n u don't need to b dating white bitch!

[Womanrule22]

@Exterminatore what fucking pisse me off y white bitch running after black guys? Y what so special about a white bitch?

[Womanrule22]

@Exterminatore Ain't no reason 4 white bitch 2 b running after black dude when ther is white dick all around every place!!!

[BillyBalls]

Looks like Roland has a racist Woman doing his dirty work.

What a little Boy Roland is.

[RolandCuthbert]

@BillyBalls You are disgusting. That woman is probably you.

[BillyBalls]

@RolandCuthbert Probably that racist kid Doopayoo.

[RolandCuthbert]

@BillyBalls Nah, you see, she isn't like you. She is one of the bravest posters here.

You are a coward. That's your breeding.

[Womanrule22]

@BillyBalls Oh now u is calling an innocent child names Grow up!!! That girl is smart!!!

[doopayo]

@Womanrule22 I hope you realize what you’re doing is called digital black face. You’re most likely some non black dude trying to pose as a racist caricature of however you think black woman act and trust me it’s not working. You can’t even use aave right, get a grip 😂

[doopayo]

It’s giving this energy

[doopayo]

@billyballs that woman is definitely you. I know the type of person you are

[RolandCuthbert]

@doopayo Wow, you sniffed that out too.

I think it is @Billyballs again.

But anyway, just want to ask, why you think racists frequently pretend to be "Black" online or anonymously try to claim all their "Black" friends accept "White" supremacy?

[doopayo]

I actually do believe the white people that claim their black friends put up with their racism. People tend to surround themselves with people who agree with them, so for a closeted racist it’s way easier to just hang around poc that don’t call out your foolishness than to hang around ones that will educate you.

The ones that do digital black face though, mostly do it to either get a rise out of black people as there’s no way we can fully tell if they’re black or not since it’s anonymous, they do it to push their own political ideology, or both.

[RolandCuthbert]

@doopayo I agree with some of what you have posted. But I define racists and "White" people as two totally different and distinct groups. I think racists constantly feel they have to convince non-"White" people of their inferiority.

So now let me share with you some things my "White" friends have said.

One friend told me that this new era of "White" supremacist nonsense does not come from their feelings of superiority. It comes from their feelings of inferiority. The most fervent "White" supremacists do not have much to brag about on an individual level. Which is why they need the concept of race. It helps them to feel better. But when they look at "Black" people accomplishing things they could never even dream of, that whole theory is shattered. They see Serena Williams so brilliant, so outspoken, dashing across the court hitting back a volley while doing a split for a winner. They see her competing at the highest levels of her sport while pregnant, then marrying a "White" guy who is a multi-millionaire.

They get worried.

So they have to figure out methods to combat their own doubts about their own nonsensical racist beliefs.

[doopayo]

This is true. The new age of white supremacists are also extremely reactionary, the whole concept of race as a whole was founded on the bases of racism and finding a way to not only justify the enslavement of black people but to ensure the working class would never work to fight against their oppression by the wealthy in power under a capitalist system.

A lot of people don’t understand by colonization leaves long term effects and if they aren’t fixed or addressed the people, even though freed will still be slaves in one way or another. Which is why so many black kids grow up hating everything about themselves, this isn’t natural. It’s been taught for generations. Which is why figures like Malcolm x and mlk “mysteriously” got assassinated once they began talking about class issues and critiquing capitalism.

racism is a system of control and manipulation. Which is why when African slaves came to America they were stripped of all their cultural identity. It’s why when Christopher Columbas enslaved the natives he did the exact same thing to them.

Current white supremacists are terrified that the masses are finally becoming class conscious and unlearning the bigotry that’s been taught for so long. That’s why they’re acting up causing stuff like Charlottesville and what happened at the capitol to occur. They’re violent, reactionaries with a genuine deep seeded hatred for black people. That hatred Is definitely 100% rooted in their own issues that they blame on minorities since that’s an easy simple answer.

[doopayo]

I just really wish more people would come to realize how much of a threat right wing extremist terrorism is because if we don’t protect ourselves against it and try to be peaceful it’s going to end up getting us killed. That’s why you see people like Kyle rittenhouse.. a literal murderer getting so much cover on conservative reactionary media. That’s what they truly want to do, they just won’t say it explicitly cause they know the public wouldn’t have it so instead they’ll stick to their virtue signaling and dog whistles

[AviatorTom]

Is this a real question? Honest Abe Lincoln got the nation reunited after a terrible civil war and freed the Southern slaves. Many historians rank him the best president in the history of the United States.

[Dargil]

Lincoln was more important to history. Trump accomplished more.

[exitseven]

I like Lincoln but Reagan and Trump are close seconds. History will tell the tale.

[BillyBalls]

It's hard to compare because each were President during different eras.

A President needs to be judged based on his actions dealing with the issues of his day.

[exitseven]

@BillyBalls Yes, Lincoln was here when the nation needed to be re-united, Eisenhower was here when the nation needed to recover from WW2, Reagan became president in the aftermath of Watergate and Vietnam. and Trump was elected after years of corruption in every corner of DC and the country wanted an outsider.

[abc3643]

Seriously? 35% of you think Trump was better?
What the fuck is wrong with you people?

This is why we need abortion.

[Jesuswasahue]

I Voted Trump, only because America is a joke, and Trump is funny. Lincoln was a real human with intelligence. America is not that. US deserved Trump. And I hope Trump 2024 wins again, for the lolz. Daddy approves too, America was a joke to him too.

[ally018]

Being a republican back then means something completely different than being a republican now.

[BillyBalls]

And what meaning would that be?

[Exterminatore]

@billy

Oh that’s just more leftist nonsense. They claim the Republican Party durning Lincoln’s time was really in line with the values of the Democrat party of today. That the Republicans then stood for the things the democrats of today do and at some point in time there was a role reversal to what we have now, which is them believing the democrats stand for what is good and right and just, especially in terms of race relations and it’s the Republicans who are like the democrats were back then being pro slavery and such.

Of course they’re full of crap. It’s just a convenient way to rewrite history.

[Anonymous]

Trump. I have to break my back now because of Lincoln. Besides Lincoln actually WAS a racist. He wanted to free the blacks but send them off to Central America. He didn't want them in this country.

[888theGreat]

Trump was fourth best behind Reagan , Lincoln, Washington, . They had tougher decisions. Only crisis Trump had was the China flu, which he was lost on what to do because he is a business guy not a doctor or nurse.

[Anonymous]

Well I'm not going to say Trump was better but half the country didn't secede when he became president. Also nobody tried to shoot Trump in the head.

[Wester1967]

Lincoln by far. He was a real republican. These modern republicans are morphed racist democrats - following Nixon's southern strategy.

[WhiteBoyChill]

Lincoln started a Civil War that was totally unnecessary. That killed hundreds of thousands.

F Lincoln

[WhiteBoyChill]

John Wilkes Booth is a hero

[Heartache0405]

Yeeeeeeah I don't think so dude 😂 but nice try looking for an argument. I'm sure you'll find one if you keep trying

[GaGirls]

Lol nice try troll

[Dragonpurple]

@GaGirls A troll is someone who disagrees with you?

[Dragonpurple]

That is true, the south would of had no choice but give up slavery sooner or later. In fact if the North had offered them more financial aid, instead of saying screw you. They may have been able to do it sooner without a war.

What happens when the federal government and northern states come in and says, here is what your going to do and we don't give a damn that your economies will be destroyed and devastated.

We call that a civil war... Lincoln could of done that and done it peacefully. All the federal government had to do was make up any lost economy revenue, to keep southern states the same while they transitioned over. Northern states could of willingly helped too.

Keep in mind there was no social safety nets back then, the north literally threatened the lives of almost everyone in the south, including slaves with starvation and homelessness and death. What would you do?

[Slartybartfast]

That traitorous twice impeached idiot Trump tried to overthrow our democracy.

[Aerissa_Jade]

Yet Lincoln became a dictator, Trump never did... so you support a dictator?

What do you call holding people indefinitely without trial? Answer a dictator. There NO excuse for that, even if a war is going on.

How many people did Trump hold indefinitely without a trial that were American Citizens?

[Anonymous]

Trump followed the constitution better, barely... Lincoln ignored it totally.

[Opinion Owner]

@SmokinAces2000 Suspended habeas corpus, held people indefinitely without trial. US Citizens, even ignoring the court orders to allow it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_parte_Merryman

Holding your own citizens in the North indefinitely without the right to a trial is a pretty huge violation, enough to shadow his entire presidency.

The only other president to do this was Bush and both have been considered... illegal actions by the court.

[SmokinAces2000]

Huh, well I never knew that, interesting

[Opinion Owner]

@SmokinAces2000 It wasn't even just him the Republicans were pretty bad after his death too, Supreme court ruled states can't actually leave.

Constitution says you can't make a state from another state, (West Virginia) so since they never left and Virginia never gave permission they ignored it there.

They also had requirements for the south to Rejoin the union even though they technically never left.

A lot of Republican led corruption during reconstruction that ignored it too.

[Opinion Owner]

@Still-alive Glad you think so, learn something new?

[Opinion Owner]

@Still-alive Does a civil war mean the constitution needs to be ignored? is that your justification for him becoming a dictator?

[Still-alive]

yes because the south were rebelling against the union and what does the constitution say? "Article I, Section 9, Clause 2:

The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it."

there ya go. the answer is YES!

[Opinion Owner]

@Still-alive Yet congress never authorized it. It has to be done by congress which is what the SCOTUS ruled on, not exclusively by the President... SO THERE!

Unless you don't think a president has to follow the supreme court order.

[Still-alive]

not during a civil war. he is the ultimate commander in chief unless you forgot that? hmmmm

[Opinion Owner]

@Still-alive As command and chief, he was rounding up people in the media who was criticizing him and even judges who were releasing people due to those being held without charges being civil right violations.

Still sounds a lot like a dictator to me, round up the media against you and judges that follow the law you don't want followed and hold them without a trial.

People just often forget how bad he really was and focus on the good. I say the bad taints all that good, because of how he did it. Becoming dictator to save a Republic makes little sense.

[Still-alive]

"he was rounding up people in the media who was criticizing him and even judges who were releasing people due to those being held without charges being civil right violations."

because it was a civil war.

"Still sounds a lot like a dictator to me, round up the media against you and judges that follow the law you don't want followed and hold them without a trial."

Because we needed unity at that time not more things that will tear us apart during that time. Call him a dictator if you want but his actions HELPED preserve the union, not help destroy it.

"People just often forget how bad he really was and focus on the good. I say the bad taints all that good, because of how he did it. Becoming dictator to save a Republic makes little sense."

None of what you have written here even comes close to how bad Trump was. for one thing we were NOT in a civil war, and i would argue he nearly helped to start one by urging his followers to storm the capital... this is no longer in dispute anymore with all the evidence coming out... see the power point slide he was shown.

[BillyBalls]

@SmokinAces2000 Seems your knowledge of history is lacking.

[SmokinAces2000]

BillyBalls I already got my dose of white washed history in school, I have no intention of doing any extra research, I research world history not American history

[Opinion Owner]

@ChefPapiChulo Yeah I know, true history is crazy shit.

[Opinion Owner]

@chefpapichulo Someone wants to get blocked, don't need to to have discussions with a child who only knows how to insult.

Martial law does not mean a unlimited dictatorship, regardless of what was going on. It means restricted rights, not 100% restricted rights. Lincoln is no better than Iran and its supreme leaders.

[goaded]

Oh, I've love to see the results, but I don't want to skew them by making the obvious choice.

[goaded]

*I'd

[DaveToo]

Dwight David Eisenhour. The orange shitstain should even be one of the alternatives to the above question.

[BillyBalls]

Trump is still living in your head rent free and loving every minute of it.

I'm laughing at that fact.

[DaveToo]

Should not. He doesn't live in my head. I simply point out to those who still believe he's heaven-sent to save our country, that he's a con-man and you've been conned.

[BillyBalls]

St. Brandon saved us. Thank God for Brandon.

[GoodGuyBreakingBad]

See Trumps number will always be in the '30s and I vote for Lincoln

[madgoat]

Lincoln is probably more memorable. It's the hat, right?

[Heartache0405]

Trump's hair is Pretty memorable too 😅

[AkshiJanjua]

Wasn't Lincoln some kind of legendary US president. I am surprised by comparison. But also I am not an American

[DryGermanGuy]

The comparison is completely asinine!!!

[GaGirls]

Yes, Lincoln is worshipped here. To even put Trump in the same sentence is retarded. Lincoln was one of our greatest leaders.

[Still-alive]

This is basically asking "what do you like better a bologna sandwich or a Filet Mignon?

[Fuentes]

The times were different when they served lol I don't know how this is a comparison.

[Paris13]

Blow His Trumpet!!! xxoo

[jlynn_jlw]

Reagan

[Paris13]

@jlynn_jlw Yes but Not as Rough and Tough but Good. xx

[Heartache0405]

For his time, Lincoln. For our time, Trump.

[BillyBalls]

Exactly.

[Ms_Vanderquack]

You are kind of an idiot, aren’t you?

[andreasderjuengere]

Where is the other president? I see only one

[BillyBalls]

The guy in the black and white picture was president in the 1860's.

I guess you were never taught American History.

[andreasderjuengere]

@BillyBalls Of course I know of Lincoln :D

[Exterminatore]

Lincoln. He preserved the Union.

[emperor90]

Linchlon because he freed slaves

[BillyBalls]

We're there slaves in 2017?

[GaGirls]

@BillyBalls No because Lincoln had the balls to free them despite knowing it would turn thousands of friends and political supporters against him. He knew too that it would mean the death of many of the battlefield. In the end, it cost Lincoln his life. That required courage. Would Trump have had the balls to do that? I don't know but we DO know Lincoln did. No what if needed there.

[Exterminatore]

Where Lincoln went wrong was he was going to send all the freed slaves to Liberia, Africa. Too bad he didn’t. There’d be a lot less fake victims walking around. Talking about how they’re so oppressed in America. As if their personal decisions have nothing to do with the condition of their lives. It’s all racist Americas fault.

Lincoln should have pulled the trigger on that. Now we have to listen to incessant claims of non existent racism. They would have been much happier in Liberia, considering it’s one of the poorest nations on earth. In many places they don’t even have electricity or plumbing. Perhaps we could still send the blacks there. Certainly they’d be much happier in place where they won’t feel so oppressed…in a nation founded by free slaves. They can enjoy crapping in a tin can there and using the same can to draw water from a crocodile infested river. At least there will be no racism.. and that’s what’s important.

[Aerissa_Jade]

@GaGirls The Emancipation Proclamation was limited in many ways. It applied only to states that had seceded from the United States, leaving slavery untouched in the loyal border states. It also expressly exempted parts of the Confederacy (the Southern secessionist states) that had already come under Northern control.

He did not free all the slaves with it.

He also suspended the right to trial and held people indefinitely in the north and ignored the courts.

People were worried Trump would be a dictator, but Lincoln is the closest thing the country has ever had to a dictator.

Suspending habeas corpus is a pretty big dictator move when you ignore the courts and do whatever the hell you want.

Now if you want to argue that the country needed a dictator at that time, It is probably true.

[SmokinAces2000]

😂 it’s a shame that the Poll is this close smh

[BillyBalls]

How so?

[OddBeMe]

Any republican who was a big libtard.

[TsAubreyKate]

Richard Milhouse Nixon aka red hunter

[JohnK123]

Reagan

[TsAubreyKate]

Your sick

[JohnK123]

@TsAubreyKate Regan era lol

[TsAubreyKate]

Nixon would kick Reagan’s ass

[Sabretooth]

Lincoln. no contest.