What do you think of the following quote?

[Juxtapose]

"before ever existed a century & half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms. the remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. what signify a few lives lost in a century or two? the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. it is it's natural manure." - Thomas Jefferson to William Smith, Nov. 13. 1787

https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/jefferson/105.html#:~:text=god%20forbid%20we%20should%20ever,%2C%20%26%20always%2C%20well%20informed.

He is right!

He is mad/wrong/etc.

[RealMarek]

Jefferson changed his tune somewhat after the French Revolution played out.

It is important to understand that neither the American nor the French revolutions were driven from the bottom up. The Americans succeeded because of sponsorship from the French and self-restraint imposed on the British from within due to sympathetic Whigs. What was playing out in America was a violent manifestation of the political conflict between Whigs and Tories in the UK. The Whigs won.

The French Revolution was ”astroturfed” by the rising capitalist class that was frustrated by constraints placed on it by the aristocratic class. Without sponsorship and organization of popular action by a potential elite (the capitalists), Bastille Day would never have played out the way it did. In any case, the French people simply enabled one elite to be replaced by another.

Without the backing of a potential elite that stands to gain from deposing the existing elite, populist action is futile and easily defeated.

[Juxtapose]

The citizenry vast out numbers the government, if a citizen stand united then the government must listen. What are they going to do, nuke their own land? Kill their own taxpayers until there is none left?

[Juxtapose]

Jfc voice to text typos 🤭

[GoodGuyBreakingBad]

He is right!

[GoodGuyBreakingBad]

Thank you for Most Helpful Guy :)

[DaveToo]

I'm saying they are wrong. There should never be bloodshed among brethren from the same soil. The heartache that such action simply turns both against each other for decades, if not centuries.
Tyrants must be denied the platform that furthers their agenda but to do so with weapons when the correct use of the pen is a far stronger deterrent.

[Juxtapose]

I think it's time we realize that regular violence against corrupt public officials is okay and should be encouraged so they do not put their boots on our necks.

[DaveToo]

You have a very powerful weapon to combat corrupt public officials. It's called the vote.

[Juxtapose]

Even if elections were not rigged what makes you think people on our side would not just be assassinated? Kennedy wanted to take on the CIA and look at what happened to him.

[Juxtapose]

What kind of machiavellian, sociopathic ruling class would just let themselves be voted out? Get real.

[IncognitoBandito]

The great weaknesses in quoting famous people can be found in:
1. The belief that a simple quote encompasses the complexity of their viewpoint.
2. The idea they remained consistent in that view throughout their lives.
3. The belief they were always 'at the top of their game' (Some of the most brilliant minds in history have uttered rather foolish opinions that even they wished to take back after a little thought).

[Juxtapose]

"what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms."

I don't think this is even controversial. The government should fear the people, not the other way around. They work for US!

[msc545]

Some things, including this quote, do not stand the test of time or age well at all. We have too much violence as it is, and with the government spending a fortune on sophisticated military hardware as it just recently did, the idea of citizens overthrowing the government or even making a plausible threat to do so is laughable.

[Juxtapose]

The military can't even conquer a third world shithole. What makes you think it can stand up to the totality of the American public in hundreds of millions?

[Juxtapose]

I bet the idea of overthrowing the British was laughed out too.

[msc545]

I doubt that hundreds of millions of people are interested in participating in a war. I take your point about the military losing every war, but they were never supposed to win those wars. Instead, they were supposed to use up a lot of equipment, so that defense contractors could replace it at inflated prices. That they did. In any event, a war like you are describing would really be the end of our democracy, such as it is.

[Juxtapose]

Do you really think our vote matters?

[msc545]

No, I don't think it matters at all.

[jshm2]

They are bullshit quotes and not really what was said at the time. But I suppose they fit the narratives of what you want to assert.

However, what you were not aware of, but the founding fathers were, is that America can never be a true democracy. Plus most of the founding fathers were Christians and believed the world would end in a couple of hundred years from then, anyway

[Juxtapose]

They were deists lol.

What a way to tell me you don't know what you're talking about without outright saying it!

[Juxtapose]

"what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms."

Go ahead and tell me how I am supposedly misinterpreting this.

[ninaneedshelp]

Second one is wrong the government will never be honest

[youreanidiot2]

[Juxtapose]

Go ahead and verify the quotes then.

[devoygf]

I don't understand what he is trying to say

[youreanidiot2]

it's a quote (probably taken out of context) that gun nuts throw around to justify guns and their hatred and paranoia of the government.

[Juxtapose]

@youreanidiot2 it's not paranoia if I am right to fear it!