Is it so wrong for men to fight for equal rights, or more accurately, equal treatment under the law? (Page 2)
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How can wanting to fight for actual equal rights/equality can even be wrong?
Wanting that is not wrong!
Fighting for that is not wrong!
Actual equal rights are not wrong either!
Nothing. Men have it a lot harder under family/divorce law. Most women not at all …. think why give it when its free (most men would too Don't delude your self) Its just a shame, it should be by 50/50 or who makes the most. A child needs support from both parents, but women can work too! It should be 50/50, if not women are only half of a man!
Like us being fully a man is something good 😂😂🤡. Thank goodness plenty of men think different than you. And have no problem providing.
No it isn't wrong at all. Something is wrong with society.
and not be legally discriminated against in employment and education opportunities but then be expected to be the breadwinner, SMH
I agree that's a problem aswell that's less spoken about.
Nothing is wrong with this except women don't like any of it and they will give you hell for it. Also, your fellow men, the White Knights, don't like it because they are too busy simping to try to get laid by women who won't touch them to pay attention to how they get abused. They will, however, kill you if you look at a woman the wrong way.
The problem is women are usually more community oriented, social and unfortunately at times hive minded. This is how radical feminism was large groups of insanity.
Woman our age all turn into Karen's , Bro go for younger 21 year old beautiful sexy woman. Woman our age are useless.
I'm married, not looking for a date. Just seriously concerned with the treatment of men in our society.
My wife is beautiful and I was lucky enough to find an egalitarian. I'm keeping her if I can.
Lol you guys see how this clown of an OP didn’t address this clearly sexist and rude comment though. And this is exactly why mens rights will never be taken as seen as Womens. A bunch of bitter DELUSIONAL clowns.
This is not to say that men don't face injustices ever in the world. Many times we do just because we are men. Equality means for both sides. Whoever... For example we can't expect the court to favor us as parents if we keep treating women as if they are only good to stay at home with them. This creates a bias were women are looked at as not worthy to work and we not worthy to be the main parent. This duality, the way we see both sexes has to end. Gender norms have to end. Or this will continue to happen.
Did I say I wanted women to stay home?
No. I didn't. I do want equality, the problem I have is that we don't because men, and fathers are treated as incompetent, predatorial second class citizens.
This isn't some "get back in the kitchen" type complaint as you implied. Its a genuine issue with the way men are treated.
I never said that you said anything. I meant that society treats women are babymakers. This is a two edge sword.
Even on this site. You have many guy advocating that women should have less rights. This is not a you issue, this is a social issue. Thing is when society sees women as weak, of course it tries to defend them. When society looks at them as only worthy to stay at home to be baby makers, of course it will also see them as the default parent.
Like I said, both have their adversities. And they all are caused by the same old mindset.
That makes since, and I've seen that behavior, but I believe lot of that is just trolling.
Trust me sadly it isn't.
Of course not! I believe in equality for both men and women. The problem is, the world heavily favors women, and yet everyone tries to pretend like it doesn't.
But I know this is just a sh*t test for SJW's and feminists anyway. I honestly wouldn't have the patience to deal with some of these pure female idiots (and any soyboys) on such a question as this. They are absolutely horrendous and retarded people.
I disagree. There's been a couple of people who just genuinely don't know. This has helped raise awareness and has caused some conversations to happen. Its not the most fun thing I could be doing with my spare time, but its certainly better then just waiting for someone else to have these difficult conversations. Sure, there are some SJWs and misandrist attacking, but anyone with a brain can figure out that they are proving my point. a good thing about this website is the way its laid out so you have to read the question before you can read the comments. This makes it easy to prove a point when you know certain people will try to shut you down. Example:"What's so wrong with men wanting equal rights that most women attack, slander, and verbally abuse men who want this?" - and then the same people I'm talking about proceed to attack me for wanting equality, proving my point and confirming that people do in fact try to shut down thus topic. Those who didn't know this was going on are more open to hearing about the topic when they aren't seeing the topic or person labeled as something horrendous first.
You talk about this a lot yet deny the existence of patriarchy? Men will never be free if they don’t also fight for the liberation of women as well as the rest of gendered people. That’s where your problems lie
Ah yes, ignore men's issues because of an imaginary patriarchy in the U. S... That'll totally work... Try taking tour misandrist crap, and go fight for women who actually need it, like the ones in the middle east, Africa, or India.
this is your downfall, if you’re anti feminist and don’t believe in patriarchy. You won’t go far with your beliefs.
What have you done as a grown man to fight for the liberation of men? You talk the talk but do you practice what you preach cause it seems you just enjoy straw Manning feminists and going nowhere with your points.
If patriarchy doesn’t exist what’s your explination for men’s oppression?
You also love to co opt women’s struggles in different countries. Vaguely saying they need help yet I doubt you ever actually listen to these women or what they have to go threw.
Hypocrisy at its finest
I'm not co opting anything. I'm telling misandrist to go do what they claim they are doing here, in countries that actually need it.
I'm not anti feminist, I'm anti misandrist. Unfortunately, you all have taken over the name of feminism.
You make no sense right? You know by your own ideology that men cannot be oppressed in a patriarchy, then you claim that's what's happening. Illogical to the end.
Why are men oppressed? Because misandrist have used the word equality to trick people into believing men are oppressors, they've labeled anyone who disagreed with them as misogynist, or self hating, and everyone's first reaction is to go along with it out of fear of being labeled, fired, or canceled.
As a result, we as a society over shot the mark and missed equality.
What have I done? A whole lot more than you have for women, that's for sure.
Take your misandrist crap outta here.
@nonyabeezwax132342 massive exaggeration.
@caitycat21 I have some questions for you about your beliefs in the patriarchy. If you don't mind me asking them.
Sure thing ^
@nonyabeezwax132342 men are oppressed under patriarchy? I’ve explained this to you so you’re just straw maning
@caitycat21 well friend me so I can message you
@This_Is_My_Opinion8 not at all.
Mmm, yes, straw manning an argument that feminism set up for you... Totally straw manning...
You’ve admitted to not reading feminist theory. At least have a little bit of humility to stop acting like you know what you’re talking about?
I have read feminist theory, and found it to be full of shit. Where did I asking that I didn't? Because now you're just lying.
Admit * not "asking" FML typos.
What feminist theory have you read? Can you name a few
Women & Power by Mary Beard
This Bridge Called My Back
Seeing like a Feminist by Nivedita Menon
A Brief History of Feminism by Antje Schrupp
The Golden Notebook by Doris Lessing
Invisible Women: Exposing Data Bias in a World Designed for Men by Caroline Criado Perez
I Call Myself A Feminist - by 25ish women that I don't remember the names of nor am I willing to list all 25, maybe 26?
The Second Sex By Simone De Beauvoir
Feminism Is For Everybody By Bell Hooks
How To Be A Woman By Caitlin Moran
Men Explain Things To Me By Rebecca Solnit
We Should All Be Feminists By Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
We Were Feminists Once by Andi Zeisler
The High Caste Hindu Woman by Pandita Ramabai
And The Bell Jar by Sylvia Plath although I could have gone without reading that one.
Took me a minute to remember which ones, and I don't even think I remembered the order in which I read them.
I have found that about 90-95% of what feminist theory contains to be bullshit. And yes, I take pride in knowing my opposition.
What is bullshit about it?
"What feminist theory have you read? Can you name a few "
I named a few.
What don’t you like about feminist theory? Kinda avoiding the question
No, you just didn't ask it. If you did, it needed rephrasing.
Modern day feminism focuses on issues that are easily explained through a woman's individual choices, as an excuse to elevate men to the cause of all of the perceived problems with these same issues. For starters.
Secondly, a primary focus of modern day feminism is on basic things that make men, men. Examples of this are masculinity, boyhood, manhood, (as in the normal experices that boys and men have such as liking to wrestle, compete, and rough house with each other, all of which are normal male behaviors, and mannerisms.) The focus on these things are an attack to dismantle them, exclaiming their perpetuation of the "patriarchy".
There is a constant fight against said patriarchy which isn't constantly logically defined, the most useful definition of it is "men in power" which I've already addressed that women make different personal decisions in their lives causing them to not take power, even when presented by it.
There are further attacks perpetuated by feminism on basic human or professional behaviors. For example the term of "mansplaing" is supposed to describe a man explaining or describing something because he believes a woman couldn't possibly know about it. However, that is such a rare occurrence, that's its often used to attack a man who simple sharing an interest he has in something, that he doesn't know she already has knowledge on or an interest in. I've also observed the use of "mansplaining" in the work place to discribe job training, which if you work in any field long enough at to change jobs, you'll find that each company will go over information you already know, in order to cover their ass in the event of a catastrophic fuckup. This happens at every job, and is normal professional behavior regardless of the gender of the person "training" you.
Other attacks are used for basic male behaviors that develop over having differing biology. The term mostly used is "manspreadting" which discribes when a man has to sit with his legs apart otherwise he's testicles get squashed. Of course no one is excusing asshole behavior that invades other peoples personal space, but this term has been widely used to attack men for sitting how they feel comfortable, regardless of situation.
One of mondern day feminisms by product are feminist who genuinely hate men, and attack them using terms like "malevolence" to excuse men's differing by claiming men are more inherently violent. I've observed this done to male victims of suicide, abuse, rape, etc. The philosophy behind this claimed that men cannot be victims under a "patriarchy" because men have all the power.
When the approach of dismissing men using terminology fails many feminist fall back on feminism base principal of equality, which is manipulated thought modern feminist theory to dismiss any other suffering that doesn't belong to women. This philosophy of mondern feminism is also utilized to guild and trick men into showing favoritism to women through using victimhood status.
The modern feminist theory has grown to envelope not just women as a whole but men who pretend to be women. Which I cannot stand for the manipulation of the mentally ill. That's part of where mondernday feminism interlinks with the growing web of intersectionality which is a whole other topic.
This push to include trans women (men) into feminism has fundamentally erased the accomplishment of real women by allowing men to claim womanhood in order to compete in female competitions. Examples of this are the fact that:
a men hold the world record in women's track and field, holds the champion title in women's mixed martial arts, and were even "voted" woman of the year. All of this to obfuscate the biological differences between men and women, particularly when it comes to physical strength. This erasure of women also allows menand women, who pretend to be women and men to invade pre-istablished safe spaces for the two genders, such as bathrooms, locker rooms, changing rooms, and female or male only clubs, gyms, spas, and other self care services. This has been and will continue to be used by sick perverts. Particular examples include a spa where a man was using a jacuzzi nude in an all female spa, and repeated exposing himself to girls under the age of 13. That was in Canada. Or the 16 year old girl in Minnesota who was raped by a "trans girl" in the girls locker room. A place where she would have been safe if the rapist was treated like about should have been, and assigned to the boys locker room. This attack on women is perpetuated by modern feminist theory, by exploiting " femininity" as a term to explain womanhood. -this as a whole is something that greatly angers me because its directly caused by an integration of the trans movement with the very ideology and movement which is supposed to protect women from gender and sexual injustices.
as where this particular group or people being the "trans" community, doesn't include everyone who is associated with being trans, as being sick perverts, it does open up female only safe spaces for men to invade. Allows for men who cannot compete against men to destroy women in competitions, and overall seeks to erase female accomplishments.
this sections TL:DR modern feminism doesn't protect women from predatory men.
The over all dismdismissal of MRAs and in general anyone who speaks on the same topics as them, and the labeling of anyone who speaks on this as misogynist or women/self hating without actually trying to hear us out and other misandristic behaviors over all doesn't help Feminism as a movement.
In conclusion:
The modern day feminist theory aims to explore young women's feeling of injustice and young mens feelings of guilt by association to turn both against masculinity, men, and over all males as a whole using terminology which inherently attacks males through the term itself and its uses.
There is more, but I'm tired of typing, and need to do other things with my time right now.
“Experiences that boys and men have such as liking to wrestle, compete, and rough house with each other, all of which are normal behaviors and mannerisms. The focus on these things are an attack to dismantle them, explaining their perpetuation of patriarchy.”
You worded this a little confusing but I’m assuming what you were trying to explain is the liberal feminist critique of how boys are socialized into certain sexist behaviors. I don’t think you fully understand the concept however so I’ll just leave a quote from one of the books you’ve read which explains it >
“Cultures of domination attack self-esteem, replacing it with a notion that we derive our sense of being from dominion over another. Patriarchal masculinity teaches men that their sense of self and identity, their reason for being, resides in their capacity to dominate others.
Bell Hooks, Feminism Is for Everybody: Passionate Politics”
As for patriarchy not being clearly defined, Here’s one article I found on Google describing it: “Patriarchy refers to the male domination both in public and private spheres. Feminists mainly use the term 'patriarchy' to describe the power relationship between men and women. ... Walby defines “patriarchy as a system of social structures and practices in which men dominate, oppress and exploit women”
Man splaning also is not feminists explaining basic professional behaviors.
An article in National Geographic comments on the suppression of women in the field of science: “over the centuries, female researchers have had to work as "volunteer" faculty members, seen credit for significant discoveries they've made assigned to male colleagues, and been written out of textbooks”
Scientist Ben Barres wrote publicly about his experiences in the field, first as a woman then as a man. As a female student at MIT, Barbara Barres was told by a professor after solving a particularly difficult math problem, “your boyfriend must have solved it for you.” Years later Ben Barres gave a scientific speech at a conference and overhead a member of the audience say, “his work is much better than his sister’s” (Vedantam, 2006).
Those are examples of man splanning that have actually happened in real life.
“The modern day feminist theory aims to explore young women’s feelings of injustice mans young men’s feelings of guilt by associating to turn both against masculinity, men, and over all males which inherently attacks males through itself and it’s uses.”
Feminist theory seeks to deconstruct the concept of gender as a whole so feminists being against masculinity would be an oxymoron since feminists don’t believe masculinity is a tangible thing. There’s no one way to be a man, and no one way to express being a man. Feminists understand the societal pressure for men to act a certain way out of fear of being ostracized or even alienated from ones pears.
We in turn don’t seek to demonize men, we seek to liberate men out of these oppressive social constructs. And that’s why feminists have been fighting for things like pressuring the fbi to change its definition of rape in order for male rape victims to finally be included in official crime statistics back in 2014.
Feminists dismiss MRAS because MRAS have dismissed feminists
The leader of the men’s rights activist movement Paul Elam has explained while speaking at a conference that divorce “socializes women to be opportunistic parasites in the lives of men.”
I’ll end by quoting a short history of the men’s rights movement.
“The contemporary men’s rights movement has roots in the “men’s liberation” movement of the 1970s, which was not incompatible with feminism in that its members were chiefly interested in rewriting gender expectations. But by the 1980s, men’s rights activists began to see them- selves as explicitly anti-feminist. Instead of critiquing gender roles, they began to critique feminists—without whom everything would still be great,
Today, the men’s rights movement is a loose coalition of online communities often called the “manosphere.” There are different pockets, each with their own core identities. There are self-declared men’s rights activists (MRAs) and pickup artists (PUAs), men going their own way (MGTOW) and involuntary celibates (incels).
Anti-feminism has long been a unifying force on the far right, bridging some of the gaps between groups such as white nationalists and evangelical Christians. Because of this, men’s rights groups are often a gateway to other violent ideologies that blend misogyny with racism, anti-Semitism, transphobia and more. There’s a particularly strong correlation between misogyny and white supremacy, an ideology with a deep history of violence against African Americans and immigrants.
Individual men are often enticed into the manosphere by what they see as an explanation for their personal unhappiness. Too often, it’s women.”
Well, most of that isn't true at all. Ever wonder why they started having criticism of feminism and labeling themselves as anti-feminist? The 1980s was around the time second wave feminism started. When the misandrist started to appear more and more in the overall movement.
Secondly, Google changes often and feminism as a whole changes definitions of words regularly.
Thirdly, I've seen feminist do exactly as I describe, and read through the ideology to know it backs up their behavior. "Its not descriptive of professional Behavior"- is not the same as it being used to describe professional Behavior.
Fourthly, no. Feminism first described the men's Rights Movement as a man of sphere of online "trolls" as they used to call it. I saw this activity happen with feminist irl. In which feminists included Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) as the same as Involuntary Celibate (incels) as not only the same group at first, but then when they had to separate them due to the antithetical or nature of the two groups, MGTOW being either voluntarily celibate, or just avoiding meaningful relationships. They listed them as "adjacent" groups. MGTOW do not usually or often speak about problems to people outside of their group or men they are trying to convince to stop engaging with women, and incels as the name suggests are not voluntarily in any group. The very idea of the manophear is a sexist joke, because it lumps all men into groups that are not active in any movement or men who do not have any affiliation with said groups into the groups. It stereo types men into groups for categorization of the entire gender as a whole. As where men's rights actives want equality, and to repair relations between the sexes, many others like MGTOW have given up on the idea. There is no manophere outside the sexist ideology of feminism, and the very idea of it is sexist against men.
There is a patriarchy in America. These weak ass no ball cowardly bitch men who cladistine and fill our government positions to regulate in a communion of socialism against strong men or good men and women through out our country for the classification therefore in the name of power money and repremation against the strong. Feminism isn't really about equal rights as it is for female freedom to dictate and destroy the patriarchy. But where the women go wrong is exactly who is who in the patriarchy.
@Djaay they know exactly who the patriarchy is.
This _is_My_Opinion8... No they really dont.
@Djaay they are fighting against the overly controlling men who don't want them to live their lives. They are weak men I agree.
grow up and grow a pair. men aren't oppressed. we still control the world. MRAs are an embarrassment to men generally. trying to disingenusoiuly cotton off feminism. like women were really oppressed. denied the right to vote, own property, they still are oppressed in much of the world.
Absolutely not wrong. Everyone has the right to fight for equal rights.
No, it is not wrong! Men too long have been neglected and treated badly. It is time to do something about it!
No it’s not wrong to fight for equal rights or what you believe to be right but you also can’t be that chapped about the slander considering women with feminist views also get the same verbal abuse from men and mockery. Call that real gender equality. Equal attacks on both genders speaking up for what they believe in and nothing actually getting done. Love to see it
The difference is by law men get screwed over, lose their kids and what they have earned. Women DO NOT get that same treatment under the law. Huge difference.
Did I ask? My reply was directed solely at his complaints about women slandering what he believes in.
There is a huge difference between what actual, egalitarian, first wave feminist views are, and what misandrist believe. That's why men mock modern feminist. They are misandrist and can't be taken seriously because they are misandrist and have proven to be so.
You wouldn't take a legit misogynist seriously would you? I don't think anyone would, or should. They should be laughed out of the public square of discourse.
These misandrist who use feminism as a shield to push their hatred, slander men before even hearing what we have to say, when we have actual issues. They, then, in the same sentence or conversation will insist that "feminism" already addresses all of our issues, and so we should just ignore the issues.
That's what's going on with the slander and why I'm mad about it.
Men's issues are not women's issues, and cannot be addressed by the very misandrist who push for the eradication of men, masculinity, men's rights, and a patriarchy that died in the 70s. Nothing I said in my question was an attack of any kind. Just true. Happens every day to men anytime we disagree with feminist on anything.
My question raises awareness to a serious issue that actively tries to prevent men from speaking about the issues men face in society today. It also has allowed me to have several serious conversations about said issues, mostly relating to child custody and the Financial destruction of divorced fathers and men.
I'd say that's actually getting something done.
Except feminism has been backed up by the government and pretty much all mega corps.
I know feminism is riddled with women that just actively hate on men and dress it up behind a movement that was made for equality. One of the reasons I no longer call myself a feminist. Bashing from men isn’t just directed at radical misandrists. The whole “feminists hate men” has been tossed around for quite some time and is far from new. The first “feminist” women who began advocating for equal status of women started in the late 1700’s, but it didn’t pick up till the late 1800’s. what crazy radical things were these man haters asking for? The rights to own property, go to college, and vote. In response to these requests they were labeled as anti family, anti god, anti men radical hedonists and those labels are still loosely thrown around even today and not just at misandrists. I was not tryna bash what you had to say in your original post. The bit about woman slandering men came off at first glance as blaming women for the injustice men go through instead of the actual problem, the justice system. so my apologies for misinterpreting
in today's world where women have endless rights and privileges over than its obviously a must
Sir, unfortunately there are too many of your fucked up brothers to blame for that. I see what you’re saying but too many men do the opposite of or exactly what you listed.
For example, say you have an apple tree and you notice that every apple you’re picking is rotten, so now you think every apple you pick from there on will be bad so you start tossing them out instead of taking the time to fully investigate all the apples
Not saying this is okay because there are some really amazing men who get shitted on by the system and society for trying to do the correct thing but unfortunately this is they way todays world works, too many bad men poisoned your whole genders image, especially our black men it suck’s honestly!
More like , there's a bowl of candy , one is poison, do you eat a piece?
So in other words, because it's men, nothing should be fought for to make change but when it's women the whole country needs to bend over backwards to make change?
Could literally say that for women too tho
Your use of the apple tree described my experiences with women.
Not every woman is a lying psychotic false accuser who gets the tingles for sociopathic bad boys and has contempt for decent men, but most of them are.
Not every woman will get pregnant by a bad boy lover and then tell her husband that the baby is his, only a third of women do that according to published research.
Not every woman will marry a man, then divorce rape him after an average of eight years, but about half will.
Not every woman will make a false rape allegation after she has morning after regret, or as an act of revenge, but so many do that experience police assume that most allegations are false. The Feminist statistic that only 2 per cent of rape allegations are false is another disingenuous Feminist lie, because they count only the cases that get to court, not the initial complaints. When initial complaints are counted, more than half of them are lies.
A rational cost/risk/benefit assessment of dealing with women shows that they are well into the negative side of the ledger.
Walking away and following the path of a MGTOW monk is the only rational course of action for men, in my opinion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwPFnvniA7w
Hey girl listen to what you saying, read it again and slow it down. Do you understand it. You just bitched on about how we find some bad apples and then just giving up thinking that their all bad, and get you just did exactly what you say is fucked up of us doing. To many fucked up brothers to blame, keep picking the apples, there's one in there eventually you can eat. You can think we are all poisoned but we are the ones that are supposed to take time sorting through to find one. Thats exactly why your so frustrated.
Ever consider picking the fruit from another tree where the apple that hang be of a different color?
y'all i promise im not bashing men, i love men. I have a boyfriend who i love and listen the best i can.
Then you should checkout The Red Pill documentary, it's free on YouTube. The stats are a little out of date, but it should give you some perspective on what's actually going on, and why you thought the way you did about my "brothers".
@Heartache0405 Look up "the women are wonderful effect". Its a real bias that women have, which helps them avoid feeling responsible for being exploitative and manipulative
It's not wrong. The law should not be weighted according to gender.
Its not wrong. Women have equal rights already. They just want more power.
That sh#t is come. Feminist was a foundation before C0ViD to turn men into do nothing spineless cowards so the Illuminati could bring NWO which we’re in now without men doing anything.
Makes since given I read agenda 21. More reason to fight against it.
Yes! And agenda 30!! For now Canada is the only country that seems to pushing hard against this with their truckers!
I absolutely agree. Canada may have started the trucker movement, but it didn't end with Canada. Right now there's a standoff between truckers and police in the US, Australia has their own Convoy that is driving across country. I haven't heard anything about the European countries but I'm sure there's people protesting there too.
Yah!! All the first world needs to push back!! Jesus with us we need kick their a22es!! The only thing here in U. S is saving people is the 2nd amendment!! That’s the only thing sending between the world and NWO!
not at all. i hope one day people are seen as humans, not as genders