Is it wrong that I agree with the racist white guy in this scene?

Question

He's racist and a white supremacist but he does make valid points in this scene. People will call it racism but it's just an uncomfortable truth most people won't accept

zeitgeist057 · Accepted Answer

I will admit the rhetoric is compelling, but it's fairly one sided monologue with a couple short seconds of replies from the others at the table. Your example is from a movie, where the actor, Edward Norton, is reading a script that was explicitly written to illustrate the point of how compelling and hypnotic racist propaganda can be. Especially to ignorant and impressionable young people in their teens and 20s. The whole movie is a tale of how racism is spread to the next generation, and how the main character played by Edward Norton comes to realize with age and maturity how wrong all that rhetoric was and is.

There is no objective truth, everyone has their own perspective and therefore subjective truth is all we have and can hope for. There are many perspectives out there. To believe one thing or the other "hook, line, and sinker" is to miss the big picture. Much in the same way some people are unable to see the ballerina spinning BOTH ways (she spins both clockwise and counter-clockwise), they are convinced that what they perceive is the objective/absolute truth, when in fact it is merely one angle.

Is it wrong that I agree with the racist white guy in this scene?

Much like this illusion above, it takes focus and a bit of practice to see the world for what it truly is, a multifaceted, dynamic, chaotic, and macroscopic realm.

You're not "wrong" to have an opinion, there is no real right and wrong, there are only illusions. From my perspective, the only mistake is setting your mind on one, when there are a plethora to be had.

Anonymous · Accepted Answer

Personally I think this scene is very important for PoC to watch and listen to so they CAN understand the psychology of the white man and actually sympathize with their POV. White people fall into racism for many reasons but this is the most often reason. What he talks about right here. And people just write them off as stupid but no, resources are not unlimited, they are finite and the repercussions of what is going on will leave many more homeless and has left many more homeless as a result. For what? People with zero loyalty to the country to begin with. This to me is the most important dialogue of the movie because it's eye opening if the ignorant LISTEN.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/lPP8oVeB8Xc

BUT the overall message at the end of the movie is also important. We're all people and we dont choose our skin color and background. And you can find good people of any race or color and no one should be profiled for their outward appearance. We need to find peaceful resolutions to the problems between our peoples and come together and unite.

BigWhiteWolf87 · Accepted Answer

@msputitonn - you are uneducated & ignorant, aren't you?

68% of arrests are white guys? Then why, sweetie, are prisons disproportionately populated by blacks?

Who are the only people that blatantly blame everyone else - you mentioned Hispanics, I don't see Hispanics crying as much as blacks do about "unfair life" - about their lives and yet don't try very hard to better itself. There's been a few times when black community leaders in Philly & other areas have been asked about black on black crime & they basically ignore it / refuse to acknowledge it.

I have colleagues & friends from countries like Nigeria and even they're disgusted by American blacks sitting on the street corner smoking, drinking & sucking off welfare.

Msputiton · Accepted Answer

Rioting is always wrong, but stop pretending that only black people have started riots.

White people and hispanics riot over sporting events🙄

There are plenty of disturbing images of white people flipping cars over and setting them on fire and fighting and brutalizing others while trashing cites, either because their team didn't win or did win.

Stop finding an excuse to bash black people and ignoring the fact that other races do it too, because you have a bias.

And it is common knowledge that every race has highest amount of murder rates against their own race.

These statistics are easy to find.

Investigator · Answer

This scene, and the question being asked by the OP, epitomizes the phrase "don't kill the messenger": it's not about whether or not what is being said is right or wrong, it's about who says it.

If a neutral, non-violent third party raises most of these points in the course of a Socratic debate (baring in mind the obvious racist sentiments, such as that Rodney King is a "monkey"), it's consider either an "elucidate, cultured, balanced take" or the "ravings of a mad man"... depending on the audience. However, if a person who identifies with or acts in accordance with the edicts of white supremacist groups professes these things, then it becomes an inherently bad take and the very idea of there being merit becomes an unconscionable faux pas.

Is Edward Norton's character a racist? I've not seen the movie this scene is from (American History X), but given his verbiage and attitude, yes. Is he correct, though? That depends on whether or not what he says is more true than false.

Which is to say, the character of a person does not inform the validity of a truth claim. The most vile person to ever walk the earth can still be factually accurate in their observations. This does not square with how most people think, however, due to the heuristic bias, i. e. "good people tend to be truthful and bad people tend to be liars". "If a person is a bigot, then they cannot be reaching an informed conclusion, because their prejudice is a blind spot in their reasoning and that means their worldview is incorrect." But, if that were true, then that person couldn't be racist unless they actually had faulty logic and/or bad reasoning skills. Therefore, a person like Norton's character would either have to be mentally ill or their worldview is somewhat based in reality.

Rockstarrrrr · Answer

I freakin love that movie... Yeah that scene and also the scene where we see his father... I felt like I was on their side... Because Derek's is well spoken and organized and he's passionate and emotional and he makes valid points... But in reality tho... There's a bigger picture and more than one side to every story... The whole message of this movie is that everyone suffers because of racism and pointing fingers to blame won't change anything and making the best out of the situation is the only way to progress... Like when the black guy and the black teacher helped Derek in prison...

jshm2 · Answer

Yes as that scene (in interviews with the actor and the writers) actually is supposed to show the cognitive bias and bubble mentality racists have.

It's why racists are always side lined and shunned when exposed. They will try for special appeals and plausible arguments, but it's only so they can switch you to their groupthink.

Anonymous · Answer

The movie was made with the intent to delegitimize the most accurate points about some of the problems with the black community.
By making those correct and accurate points BY the skinhead they intended to deflate the accuracy and truth about the points he made.
Using hateful words like monkey was just a way to delegitimize his ideas.
I've said 90% of what he's said but calmer and not offensively. Simple facts.
Rodney King, I didn't know he was that high (but not getting my facts from a movie either). The cops were acquitted. More riots. More people care about Rodney King than even know about Reginald Denny.
How about we focus on getting drugs off the streets and black men stay home and raise their boys to be men and not statistics?
If Rodney King and George Floyd hadn't been so high none of this would have happened.

NathanDavis · Answer

simple, yes... racism is both wrong and bad which is precisely why you posted this as anon... because you know better

NamerOfStars · Answer

Well, what does he say? Being racist doesn't mean you're wrong about everything; hell, not all *racist* things are wrong. What does he say that you agree with, and do you agree with all that he says?

Part2603 · Answer

They should make a sequel where they discuss George Flyod! :)

Quigly · Answer

Role reversal from reality.
In reality, the young guy would be a parent talking to his kids about how the media lies and how their school has brainwashed them to call the truth racist and white supremacist nonsense.

Staximus · Answer

Every race is their own worst enemy, and every person for that matter. Stupid people come in all colors, it just depends on what part of the world you are in and in what direction you are looking.

Anonymous · Answer

His sister is the perfect example of why it's pointless to be racist if you're white. 90% of all white women are just like her, smh. I'd rather be an Asian, Hispanic or even a black supremacist.

ChefPapiChulo · Answer

id say more stupid than wrong because that wasn't the main point of the movie lol.

OddBeMe · Answer

Edward Norton? Or the Jewish teacher? Because Ed is wrong, white people are offing each other. And whites were the main looters during the BLM riots.

WhiteBoyChill · Answer

Personally I don’t think he went far enough in his spheal about black people

notwoke · Answer

the truth isn't racist, just facts

Anonymous · Answer

I didn't hear him say anything racist.

Is it wrong that I agree with the racist white guy in this scene?

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