im curious to know how Europeans and Americans think.
What do you think about the fact that the Europeans colonized the world?
im curious to know how Europeans and Americans think.
On the whole, a huge benefit. This is not to say that European rule was always beneficial or motivated by the highest standards. Rather it is to point out that the ideas that followed European rule were generally beneficial and certainly preferable to some of the ideas that permeated the rest of the world.
The Enlightenment, with its notions of "natural rights," "democracy" and the "nobility of man," came from Europe and followed Europeans into their empires. Indeed, it was these ideas that, paradoxically, inspired the natives of the colonized lands to seek freedom and ultimately independence. Prior to these ideas, most empires in what is today called the "third world" were merely, in the eyes of the natives, one set of rulers for another set of rulers. Their worth judged by the utilitarian standard of the prosperity and stability they brought, with no thought of freedom or of human rights.
In a way, paradoxically, the Europeans imported some of these ideas from what would become their empires. Judaism and Christianity, the latter of which came to dominate Europe, after all, were born in the Middle East. Their ideas of God's law and man's centrality as a a "child of God" becoming the unintentional foundation of which the scientific revolution and the Enlightenment would later be built.
Plus, it must not be imagined that European rule was an unmixed blessing. The Europeans did not always rule in full consistency with the ideas they espoused. Further, for as many good ideas came from Europe, some decidedly bad ones came as well. See also Marxism as Exhibit A.
However, on balance, and this is a matter of weighing the goods and the bads against a realistic standard of the limits and limitations of human imperfection, European rule of much of the world must be judged, by historical standards, a good thing. For alternative visions, see also the brutal rule of the Mongol hordes, the binding of women's feet and other such innovations.
oh wow indeed it must have been great to live under Spanish, Portuguese, UK and French domination. You were reduced to slavery, to submission, to the exploitation of your lands. Truly a wonderful time that we would almost regret.
@Mikemyth561 You ever see what those peoples did to themselves? The difference being that as there was no Enlightenment intellectual movement, there was no prospect of freedom or improvement. Indeed, you speak of slavery, but let us not forget that the African empires cheerfully sold their opponents into slavery among themselves, and then when the Europeans arrived, to them as well.
Sorry, the Europeans did not have a monopoly on bad behavior. It was quite prevalent among the native regimes in Africa, Asia and Latin America and, indeed, in the case of India, it was rivalries between various tribes and factions that facilitated - indeed necessitated - British rule.
What the Europeans did offer was a sense of progress and gradually evolving ethic of rights. Not all at once to be sure, but as anyone living in Congo, Rwanda, Ethiopia, Venezuela, Cuba, China, etc., etc. to this very day will attest, Europe offered, and offers, far better prospects for human betterment than anything that came from - or comes from - what today is sometimes still called the "Third World."
Oh ok, since other civilizations have practiced the same thing, that excuses the behavior of westerners. Better still, thanks to the philosophers of the Enlightenment, it was almost a duty to civilize these Barbarians.
Thank you Night, for this high quality argument.
And sorry I consider the philosophers of the Enlightenment as idiots especially Rousseau who was a despicable and racist being.
@Mikemyth561 Again, go back and read carefully what I wrote.
Even then, for all its flaws, European culture brought with it a capacity for improvement - particularly in the realm of individual rights - that simply did not exist in much of the rest of the world.
As far as setting out to civilize the world, do recall that it was said of the British Empire that it was acquired in a fit of absent mindedness. The effects of European colonization were not intentional, but rather the result of the intermixing of cultures and the exposure of certain peoples to new ideas.
It also being added that this worked both ways.
Bottom line, try as you like, it is hard to imagine that concerns for equality, and justice and the rights of man would have gotten very far if Europe had not spread to the rest of the world. The Europeans were not perfect, but they offered a theoretical construct that made human progress possible.
Everyone colonized the world in different locations at different time periods throughout human history. Many wars were fought. Borders, cultures, and religions in specific regions fluctuated often. Europeans just had the most current empires and separated themselves from the rest of the world through rapid acceleration of technology and development of philosophy leading to overall dominance on Earth. That said, things can always change and generally do in time. Energy is running low. Economic dominance needs a steady supply of energy and those sources are finite.
yeah definitely. i agree with you. i feel like China will be the next super power in the world.
why do you think that? who in your opinion will be the super power?
The only current possibility is the USA. The Chinese economy is a fraud. That said, if the oil economy collapses it would make it hard for the USA in the near term with our current infrastructure. We would adapt though and transition to coal. America has the lion share of coal. controlling 30% of the anthracite and bituminous coal. Whoever comes up with a successful cold fusion energy technology will be the next great superpower. That's what it is all about, energy... Energy does work.
As someone who is black and is from a country that was colonized I think it was a series of misfortunes, lies, violence, injustice and evilness. There wasn't anything good about colonization.
Unfortunately no one who is alive today can change what happened but we all can learn from it so it doesn't happen again.
The deaths of 90% of the indigenous people in north and south america means it's an absolute tragedy
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I don't think anything of it. It's the history of humans - homo sapiens. It's the history of Homo erectus. For that matter it's the history of all animals and plants if you want to look at it that way.
Here in the Americas, there were at least three waves of colonization before the Europeans stepped foot on the continents. There is more and more evidence that there were more waves than that.
Humans were nomadic hunter gathers throughout most of their history. Every now and then they'd find a nice fertile place and stop. Some of them would break away and eventually do the same thing someplace else.
This is just how humans are. It's how all of life works. I don't feel guilty for being human. I also don't feel guilty for what other humans do.
A lot of the shit was going on before places were colonised.
also Empire is pretty much as old as man.
we need a new temple built, the people don’t want to build any more, okay let’s attack country xyz, they can build it for us.
one the main things that came along with colonisation was democracy, yes it took a while to get started, however nearly all countries colonised by Europeans are in some flavour, democracies.
Then there is technology, they had a boost to the industrial Revolution.
Right, because the Arabs and the Chinese and the Bantu and the Persians and the Hindis and the Mongols and the Aztecs and the Incans and the Lakota and the Cherokee and the Pawnee, yeah, none of them ever enslaved or ethnically cleansed or conquered anybody. Naw, white people invented that out of the clear blue sky lmao.
Nigga please.
Why limit it the Europeans? The Asians DWARF their colonial efforts, and China's continuing it to this very day; they'll probably own half oy Africa before they're done.
There wouldn’t be no USA, no Canada, no New Zealand, no South Korea, no Australia, etc.
They created and helped stabilize many countries creating places for people to live all around the world. I am thankful.
what about the suffering of those people who lived under those empires who colonized them? who stole their wealth and status and made it their own?
It is tragic but Mankind is proven to be evil.
It is such a sad thing that we humans are so evil to each other. there's so much greed and hatred in the world today.
sometimes i feel like there's no one more unkind than us.
It’s evolution. The most evil creatures survive and move on. We killed entire species like Neanderthals and other animals.
I’ve accepted the fact that humans are inherently evil
what's the point of so much struggle when you know that you will die one day? Death is inevitable. most of the human really dont even contribute to human society in a big way. they lead average lives yet they do all they can just to survive a little more.
It happened. The world today is like it is because they did. My life is better for it as I live in a wealthy country. Others suffered. Tough one
Every nation goes through its rise and fall. Today its the western nations that are more economically wealthy and developed. and tomorrow it can definitely change. Soon it'll be China that'll be the world power
Pretty sure people were enslaving others and forming empires through conquest long before Europe was even an idea.
Some cultures are better than others.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/MkEqI3_J4xgwhich cultures are better in your opinion
they had the intellectual capability to do so and should do it again in many areas of the world. Everyone would be better off
like the Vietnam war that happened due to the incompetence of American mindset. yes that was such a smart move right. or should we talk about the useless operations in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Good for them. Indigenous peoples could have been doing the same instead of hunting and gathering. Europeans had ambition
It's funny that they got beasted on and lost all their American territories bar a few like French Guyana. The salt they feel about it makes me happy
The current world of the last 2000 years. you're leaving out a lot of other “colored” empires….
Colonialization is horrible, period.
Well now it is what it is
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