The Chinese balloon thing was a propaganda move the government knew soon as it entered Alaska so they should have shot it down then?

[driven159]

[Soteris]

... Well of course it was a propaganda move. China sends plenty of spy balloons yet this time it was somehow front page news and every Republican in the country blew a gasket. That was not accidental, it was orchestrated by the US government. For what purpose we dont know, could be plenty of reasons either attacking the Chinese or even uplifting Biden by shooting it down and pointing out how Trump hid the existence of several balloons during his presidency thus making him look weak by comparison.

Without taking a look behind the scenes we can't know for certain who wanted this public and for what. Just that someone had a plan and it somehow involved turning this event into propaganda.

[Leopard23]

I think the real question is does the US government have the right to shoot them down if the they are in the stratosphere and if so does this give China the right to shoot down similar balloons and us satellites over their airspace.

[Soteris]

@Leopard23 ... Why would they not? Also, I am pretty sure nothing stops China from downing a few satellites if they could and if they wanted to escalate the situation to a free-for-all.

[Leopard23]

Where does your airspace end and where does it begin. I'm sure China has the capability of shooting down satellites, Russia does too.

[Leopard23]

The Chinese are making a statement. For all we know the US is flying spy missions over China

[Soteris]

@Leopard23 Why does airspace matter? Nothing stops you from shooting down things outside your airspace, especially if it is not in THEIR airspace either.

Also I can say for certain that USA is DEFINITELY flying spy missions over China. That is excessively normal.

[Leopard23]

Must have the Chinese rattled if they are sending balloons

[D_Bone_Steak]

3 balloons... fake news. Biden admin just made it up, so that people would stop roasting Biden. Watch the video. Always give a story like this 72 hours and the fake news gets debunked.
https://youtu.be/mUOnxhCEEI8

[Soteris]

@Leopard23 No, USA is not sending balloons. They used to send SR-71's just to piss them off (and yes there was attempts to shoot it down) but now days USA is mostly happy with parking an unknown number of spy satellites above China and mapping it out better than the Chinese government itself.

I am not even joking. USA probably have more information about the current state of China than China itself does and that should tell you something.

[Soteris]

@D_Bone_Steak It was not 3 balloons. It was probably more along the line of 5-20 a year. Again, these things are normal. It would be fucking weird if Trump did not have foreign spy missions happening during his presidency.

Also Tim pool over there is an idiot. First of all, Biden is not going to confirm when USA first spotted this balloon, that would be fucking retarded and expose the top secret capabilities of the American intelligence network to their main rival. Presidents dont do that, unless they are Donald Trump and posts an unedited satellite picture giving away the camera resolution and features of a large part of Americas spy satellite program. Good job there.

So yeah, Biden is not going to admit when they first spotted this balloon, that is TOP SECRET information. Secondly, why would he care? No, literally. Why would Biden care about the balloon? It can't find anything because China already has spy satellites that sees the obvious and anything USA actually wanted to keep secret is super easy to hide while the balloon itself is nearby. It was never actually a threat to national security.

[Soteris]

@D_Bone_Steak
This whole fearmongering about the balloon flying over "ICBM SITES!" is pathetic. GOOD! ICBM sites are supposed to be public information, its their job as deterrents to be advertised to literally everyone on earth. No point in having a deterrent if no one fucking knows about it now is there?

I also love Tim Pool claiming Ukraine and Russia both wanted cease fire. Laughable! The fuck they did. Ukraine would never want a cease fire unless it was for Russia to pull their troops out of all of Ukraine and Russia would never want a cease fire unless it was for them to organize for another attack. There is no appetite for a cease fire in Ukraine.

And lastly, there are hundreds of cases of "unknown" flying objects (not UFO's, thats a different category from this). Some of them are foreign intelligence operations, others are not. Point is they happen year in and year out, every year forever. This is normal. Just because you did not hear about it does not mean it did not happen. In fact, you only hear about these things when someone fucks up, that is how the "spy" business works.

[D_Bone_Steak]

I have a feeling you're going to be as right about this as you were about the difference between Trump having secret documents and Biden. Why you play defense for a constant failure? that's not a jab... just a real question. Time is just going to prove you wrong again and you should know it.

[Soteris]

@D_Bone_Steak Why yes, I am 100% correct as usual. How nice of you to notice.

But yeah.. Dont even pretend you know how these things work, you dont. This balloon was not front page news because people could see it or whatever, it was front page news because someone wanted you to see it. Probably the US government quite frankly. Again, these type of things happens all the time, you are just not told.

Which means that this time is different, in that this time the balloon was used for American propaganda. And you bought it hook, line and sinker. Why is right wingers so gullible when it comes to propaganda? You appear to CRAVE it, like it sustains you. Its really pathetic.

[D_Bone_Steak]

... and you're reduced to ad hominem attacks. I give it 2 months and you'll be just as wrong as you were the last time. Enjoy.

[D_Bone_Steak]

... and again... I can tell you didn't watch the video. My assumption is you don't want to question what CNN or TYT tells you. I'm not impressed... even if you call me fancy names.

[Soteris]

@D_Bone_Steak No, I am not doing ad hominem attacks. My arguments against you has nothing to do with how stupid you are, even though you are. Ad hominem is not just insults, its insults in place of actual arguments which I clearly dont do.

Also, of course I dont watch the video. Its a Tim Pool video. Its not worth my time. I have it a good 8 minutes or so but then my ears started bleeding and I lost faith in humanity.

[D_Bone_Steak]

"How stupid you are" Love it... next is the justification. You're wrong you know... just like last time... I sort of wanted to rub it in last time, but I let it go. Give it a couple of months... I'll have to ask myself if I should rub it in with "I told you so" yet again.

But for now, you think you're right about everything... yet again.

[Soteris]

@D_Bone_Steak Oh, I am still 100% correct and you have not been able to tell me otherwise.

[D_Bone_Steak]

Uh huh... look up Dunning-Kruger effect... your picture is there. 😂

[D_Bone_Steak]

So you just trust that balloons were just flying all over the place even though actually say they were not? But a sudden anonymous says it was happening all of a sudden and they only discovered it just now after Biden shoots one down. A balloon everybody could see but had never seen before. Amazing. I'll take your side for a little bit to play devil's advocate. How did they just get away with it like Sam Hyde always does with the mass shooting? Explain it genus mensa member. Just nobody at all has seen it until Biden starts geting shit talked for being too much of a pussy to shoot one down... then an anonymous source comes up with multiple balloon theory.

Like, I hope you and I both agree on one thing at least... the anonymous source... would like to know who that is? You too? ... or you just don't give a shit and know Bide is right no matter what?

[Soteris]

@D_Bone_Steak Strange. It looks a lot like you though.

[D_Bone_Steak]

This is how I divorce myself from the multiple balloon theory during Trump... give me one name... anyone that has seen it. Remember the claim comes from some anon source. Any names... anyone I can look up? Nope... not at all. But we have plenty of people in actual positions that were in the know saying, that shit isn't true. Come up with a name of someone that knew that balloons were flying around during Trump... I'll believe you. Even if it was just you... I'll take you for your word. If you saw those ballons though... who else saw them... just anon sources? ... and I should just believe that? Really? I should just put my trust in in?

[Leopard23]

This is from last year

"US Military to Use High-Altitude Balloons Against China, Russia:"

www.google.com/.../

[Soteris]

@D_Bone_Steak Well, first of all. Why would Biden find evidence of Chinese spy balloons during Trumps term as president?

On July 20, 2022 DOD created the All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office, AKA AARO. Its purpose was to collect information from all the various intelligence sources and examine them to explain "Unidentified anomalous phenomena" or UAP. Basically, UFO hunting but less to do with fear of aliens and more to do with finding stupid stuff like Chinese spy balloons to protect US national security.

As such, this newly formed task force had literally all of American history as a backlog and was tasked with identifying all manners of things. This report was released this year in 12th of January, 2023. You can see the report here:
www.dni.gov/.../2354-2022-annual-report-on-unidentified-aerial-phenomena

This report contained some 510 cataloged UAP and 163 of those were attributed to be balloons. Without making too big of a leap in logic, 3 of those happened during Trump and were also connected to Chinese intelligence. But that is besides the point really. Clearly, there are a ton of balloons out there if you just made an effort to look for them. And how many of those balloons caused a public outrage in the media? Zero to my knowledge. You would also struggle to find an eye witness account for any of them if it were not for the work of US intelligence agencies tracking them.

So yeah. You are full of shit my dude and there you have a source.

[D_Bone_Steak]

"Well, first of all. Why would Biden find evidence of Chinese spy balloons during Trumps term as president?" ... that's what I'm trying to point out... nobody sees any during Trump, and they magically "discover" these balloons during Trump after everybody sees a balloon and gives Biden shit for being too much of a pussy to shoot it down. Nobody saw them... where's your fucking source otherwise.

My sources are right there in the video dude... that 5 high ranking authorities... right there saying the 3 balloons during Trump is bullshit. Plus there were no people looking up and just snapping pictures of these "just discovered balloons" but you or I could snap pics of this one.

3 balloons during Trump was made up. Nobody talked about, seen, or will confirm those balloons. The source for the 3 balloons IS AN ANONYMOUS SOURCE... their words not mine... again the article is right there in the video... If you disagree with that... then at least you and I know you side with the information provided by people you think should just be believed with mystery sources.

I know you probably hate Tim Pool because you think he's far right or whatever... but look, he reads the the news directly to you with the articles up on the screen. You're probably into stuff like TYT where they just take shit out of context and rant, and everybody looks at them like fucking idiots.

https://youtu.be/3kB0Wkxv-7k

[Soteris]

@D_Bone_Steak That is what I am trying to tell you. You are dumb. They DID see them during Trumps term as presidency. The All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office did not go out and look for Balloons themselves, they collected records and data that intelligence agencies recorded at the time such as during Trumps presidency but that no one back then analyzed properly to figure out what they actually was.

It was working with the same information Trump would have had, if he cared enough to safeguard USA's national integrity. If you call "DOING YOUR FUCKING JOB AND GETTING RESULTS" as "MAGIC" then that is fine with me, just as long as we keep the definition consistent. Again, these sightings were recorded at the time but not actually processed which is why Trump can say "he never saw any Chinese balloons" because he never fucking looked.

Also I love how you dismiss "anonymous sources" but you take "5 high ranking authorities" AKA FUCKING POLITICIANS at their words as if their whole careers are not built upon lying. Also dont tell me about taking pictures of balloons. How would you know one balloon was a spy balloon as opposed to any number of other balloons that are commonly used all around the world? Seeing a picture of a random balloon would not raise the eyebrow of anyone not familiar with that should and should not be in the sky at the moment, AKA military officials mostly.

Also I hate Tim Pool because he is an idiot. Not that he supposedly reads the news. He is ignorance made manifest and he lives and breaths propaganda.

[D_Bone_Steak]

You're right... right about everything. Can't argue with your big brain. Carry on.

[Soteris]

@D_Bone_Steak Why thank you

[D_Bone_Steak]

Yup, you're welcome. You just totally convinced me... genius. 😂

[Soteris]

@D_Bone_Steak I know, I am such a genius. They should name a field of science after me, totally.

[D_Bone_Steak]

Dunning-Kruger effect is an unstoppable force 😂

[Soteris]

@D_Bone_Steak Right back at you. The dunning kruger effect is a right wings best friend.

[driven159]

@Leopard23 to answer your question the U 2 spy plane was shot down in 1960 over Russia was at 70,000 feet so I am sure it goes to the edge of outer space when the treaties were written before space travel

[Leopard23]

So shoot down Jupiter for entering our airspace?
We are probably sending balloons over china

[Soteris]

@Leopard23 USA probably dont send balloons but drones, spy satellites and possibly a stealth aircraft every once in a while although that era is long since over. Balloons are more an Asian thing although considering every country uses plenty of weather balloons and such, it would be a nice cover and you could ever use existing infrastructure to launch the balloon inside their own country rather than send it from yours.

As for shooting down Jupiter? Not sure what you are smoking.

[Leopard23]

Well balloons are cheap and can stay in the air indefinitely. Satellites have predictable orbits. The US was investigating using balloons last July. The Chinese would never admit to a US incursion publicly. We sent balloons over China in the 50s.
www.google.com/.../

[Soteris]

@Leopard23 The balloons are not particularly cheap. Probably in the range of 5-50k dollars and if you want to carry a lot of equipment its going to be probably above that. Balloons are also not particularly useful in that they are also just as predictable as satellites. That is why the military has gotten such a hard on for drones these days rather than balloons.

You would probably get more bang for your buck if you got a commercial drone and slapped some better communication and sensors on it. Granted, when China sends balloons its not about gathering intelligence, its about sticking a finger in the eye of USA. China might be ass backwards but I know they got better stuff than this if and when they put their minds to it so the cheap and shittiness of the balloon is a deliberate choice on their part.

[Leopard23]

Must be a reason balloons are coming back

[Soteris]

@Leopard23 They are not. Again, used to send a statement. Them getting found out is basically half their job. At that point the method is not really important, getting some data on how USA detects and deals with incoming air threats is just a bonus which is also why its best not to play into their game and not act like you would if an actual threat came or they would take that into account if they ever attack you for real.

[NaultD]

Knowing "what and where" china is looking for could be relevant information for intentions. Seeing how they feel their way in the dark kind of thing. Once it was public information pressure to do something overrided that mission and a level of security theater was played out.

In terms of security threat let's be honest google earth has better images for public consumption then a china balloon with a camera. Payload of any kind can be concerning. Best to drop it in the middle of nowhere and quarantine 5 to 10 miles of the landing or leave it alone.

[Leopard23]

Possibly. I think they wanted to capture the balloon spy equipment intact and probably wanted the Chinese to see whatever they wanted to see. It was clearly on a defined flight path.

There's also the legality of shooting it down as it far above our airspace. Will China start shooting down us satellites that are above their airspace,?

[Leopard23]

This is from last year

"US Military to Use High-Altitude Balloons Against China, Russia:"

www.google.com/.../

[jshm2]

Nope. Canada spotted it, identified it, and dismissed it long before the USA did.

The USA just overreacted when the news went viral, is all.

[Soteris]

That is almost certainly bullshit. USA definitely identified and spotted long before they OFFICIALLY acknowledged it. Doing otherwise just gives the Chinese an idea of your capabilities, on what you can and can't detect which they can use in the future to get something more valuable. So no. You will not be told when and how USA spotted this balloon. That is far more top secret than anything else surrounding this event because that exposes the US intelligence network.

[Leopard23]

NORAAD spotted it. US and Canada share air defence. It was likely spotted in the Pacific, if you look at the route its on a very clear flight path to cross into north America via the bering start which separates Russia from the US by about 55 miles.

[Soteris]

@Leopard23 I have reasons to doubt this.

[BeMuse]

That was the point, to distract you for an entire week while other things were happening...

[BeMuse]

It's not the first time the government with the assistance of the fake news has given you a military balloon distraction story... A pretty famous one is the Roswell incident in 1947.

[BeMuse]

The Clown Show always uses balloons in their circus...

[BeMuse]

Stop focusing on the pretty little balloons. Readjust your focus.